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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
Feel the Swift
Member
Yeah by the time that came out I was done with it.
Fata1moose
Banned
Classic slayer would then be better in 4 because it actually had decent 4v4 maps (Skyline, Haven, Monolith) whereas Reach had none. There's a reason MLG played on a forged Sanctuary map in Reach most of the time.
That's not how opinions work. NBNS in Reach, in my opinion, was *far* better than H4 in every way, aside from map selection, but that doesn't mean that I should like H4 more.
Gnome Scat
Member
They're about on par for me. Reach had better level design, a better weapons/vehicle sandbox, a far far better Forge + Customs, Invasion, Firefight, and amazing armor, but 4's multiplayer had better maps, better weapons balancement (post-patch), much less bloom, and better game modes, as well as the Campaign having a great story. So although Reach's modes were of better quality (for the most part), Halo 4 felt better to play.
Fata1moose
Banned
In my opinion Sonic Colors is better than Mario Galaxy 2, fuck any healthy debate, it's my opinion and that's all that matters.
Halo 4 didn't have really any great maps including BTB. Haven was an ok map but it had no real distinct stradegy because of the way default Halo 4 slayer was created and The Pit and Valhalla were simply remakes with a worse art direction (The Mantis had no place in Valhalla aswell).
The last Halo game that contained a decent original map selection was Halo 3 but even then Halo 2 overall was the best in this regard.
The last Halo game that contained a decent original map selection was Halo 3 but even then Halo 2 overall was the best in this regard.
VincentMatts
Member
Reach was not supposed to play like the other Halos. It was a spinoff game. If they cant do different things (or take creative liberties) on non main Halo games, then when can they? To me the worst halo MP was 4 just because it WAS a main Halo game and they treated it like a spinoff, MP wise.
Just because the title didn't have a number in it does not make Reach a spin-off.
It was absolutely a mainline Halo. It had the same development time, was advertised as such and played very similarly.
That's like claiming Battlefield 1 is a spin-off.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Yessir, dats correct.
Has anyone booted up Halo Online recently? summit1g and Naded have been streaming it over the past few days (not together I think) but it looks like there is some hype growing around it. A new version of the game is apparently in the works by the Eldewrito team. There is already many dedicated servers out there including a few MLG servers. I was wanting to make a no sprint DMR start gametype but I have no clue how to edit the gametypes lol
VincentMatts
Member
Development time has literally nothing to do with whats a main line game and whats not. Nothing.
Not having a number in the title and being a prequel doesn't make it a spin-off.
Halo Wars is a spin-off, Reach is not.
Also, what I meant was that being developed for 3 years by the main Bungie development team is a reason why it isn't a spin off.
VincentMatts
Member
lol whatever you say
reach was not a spinoff. it was halo "evolved". to them, the natural progression that halo was supposed to take.
VincentMatts
Member
No it wasnt. It was basically them fulfilling the last game they owed Microsoft in their contracts before they split. They were not going to make a main game just to leave it out to dry a few months later. It was a spinoff.
Poodlestrike
Banned
What's this spinoff nonsense? Reach was a prequel, and clearly a part of how they saw their design philosophy progressing; just look at Destiny.
Fata1moose
Banned
Bungie intended Halo Reach to be their swan song to Halo, they wanted it to be the definitive iteration that would have a long shelf life. It's a mainline game in everything but name and among the worst at that.
In a Halo mood and I decided to play this game again. Gotta re-download all 97 GB though. Jesus...
Yep. If there is one thing I don't like about Halo after 343, it's the dog shit art direction. So much fucking over complicated designs it's hideous.
Some sketches from post-its and notebook margins:
God, I still hate the Halo 4/5 BR. It has overly complicated geometry, which combined with silvery-gray makes it look almost more Forerunner than human. The classic BR at least looks distinctively human, if a little anachronistic.
Also, the H4/5 version has dumb fucking yellow stripes on it, because racing stripes look awesome on everything bro.
Yep. If there is one thing I don't like about Halo after 343, it's the dog shit art direction. So much fucking over complicated designs it's hideous.
Fata1moose
Banned
Pretty sure they put the yellow stripe on the BR so you could quickly differentiate between the DMR/BR on the ground. I don't like 343i's art style, but at least that has a reason.
Probably should have stuck that line on the less iconic weapon.
Gnome Scat
Member
I don't mind the Halo 5's BR design, but I do prefer the classic style to it.
On a totally unrelated note, 343i missed a golden opportunity with Halo 2: Anniversary. I wish thinking about how they could've taken a similar approach to Modern Warfare Remastered (save the shitty minimization strategy). Think about it, all of Halo 2's multiplayer maps and playlists with refined classic gameplay. Microsoft could have even gotten a small studio together to support it by adding more weapons, armor (for both Spartans and Elites), maps, and vehicles to the sandbox, which is sort of what they did in the first place. They could have revamped the armor customization to be like Halo 3's and even provide a Forge mode, like they tried doing. I appreciate the effort of trying to bring all games to Xbox One, but a more focused approach could have resulted in more longevity, more stability, and an alternative for older Halo fans.
On a totally unrelated note, 343i missed a golden opportunity with Halo 2: Anniversary. I wish thinking about how they could've taken a similar approach to Modern Warfare Remastered (save the shitty minimization strategy). Think about it, all of Halo 2's multiplayer maps and playlists with refined classic gameplay. Microsoft could have even gotten a small studio together to support it by adding more weapons, armor (for both Spartans and Elites), maps, and vehicles to the sandbox, which is sort of what they did in the first place. They could have revamped the armor customization to be like Halo 3's and even provide a Forge mode, like they tried doing. I appreciate the effort of trying to bring all games to Xbox One, but a more focused approach could have resulted in more longevity, more stability, and an alternative for older Halo fans.
But then they had all weapons get a blue highlight when they're on the ground, so...?
Probably should just stop filling every niche with several weapons. It's harder for sound and visual designers to maintain clean contrasts, it's harder to balance the game, and the world of map design and ammo management gets muddled for no obvious benefit. Halo's core gameplay just doesn't really suffer from functional variety starvation, even when the mechanical featureset is small.
It's baddass! I guess they've modded in classic settings. I saw some vids Sudduth2 posted on Reddit.
So refreshing.
Really, they need to make every weapon fill its own niche rather than fitting each gun into a class, and differing them only by fire rate and RRR.
The only things I would knock Reach for are the slow base speed, armour lock, bloom. DLC sorted the maps if 343 actually maintained a playlist when they took over and easy Firefight. Other than that it's easily one of the best Halo games released. Campaign is fantastic, art is amazing, feature set is packed, slick from top to bottom, weapons were all round excellent, multiplayer was fun even with some issues and base maps not being the best. Bungie were top form with Reach. I want a remaster with better AA.
Fata1moose
Banned
They didn't in Halo 4 when that design was implemented.
I loved Reach. I liked it better than 3, but when Bungie flooded the TS playlist with Forge maps it really started to lose its luster. 343's ridiculous TU experiments only made it worse. The whole damn game should have been updated with NB and bleedtrough with the TU and left it at that.
(Note: I acknowledge H3 was a better game competitively and especially in map design. I just loved Reach dammit)
Unlike most here however, I don't love H5. I can appreciate the move back toward balance with shooting mechanics and the extraneous COD care package trash taken out but I just don't like the game, even after putting enough time in it to get onyx in a couple playlists. The abilities promote escape, the maps are easily worse than Reach Forge maps (and I'm not even talking BTB here, what a disgrace that is). And the game just looks muddy to me, in a way that even the 60fps doesn't make up for.
In any case, I second the call for a remastered Reach. If it had TU multiplayer I'd finally leave that graveyard thy call MCC and play the crap out of some NB Reach.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Reach had some satisfying feedback. When those shields pop, mmmmm.
It looks okay, but too slow for my liking. Halo 3 felt like moving in molasses, and what I saw from that Suddoth video felt the same.
curiouscharles
Member
yyyyup.
that's all MCC and H5 shitty PC customs have shown me - old Halo is slow as fuck, and actually pretty boring now.
i'll never understand people's obsession with old Halo after H5.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Theoretically yes, but they're never going to pare back now thanks to Warzone.
It's because people associate what they perceive to be high movement speed with fewer movement mechanics as some kind of a ludological masterwork that needs to be adhered to like scripture, and after Armor Abilities the those people have the notion that adding more mechanics that place a slightly increased tactical burden on the player is an act of heresy, and anyone who disagrees is guilty of apostasy.
You can see that at work dozens of times in this thread.
"Sprint is bad because you can't strafe or shoot or reload while sprinting, and that makes it Call of Duty."
"But you get slowed down when you get shot, and your shield doesn't recharge, so it's hyper punishable."
"Doesn't matter, it's not Halo anymore."
"Clamber is broken because you can't shoot while you clamber."
"But you can crouch jump to very nearly every surface that you can clamber to to negate that."
"Doesn't matter, it's not Halo anymore."
"Spartan Charge and Ground Pound are broken because they exist."
"But they're so obviously telegraphed that any semi competent player should be able to dodge or otherwise counter them."
"Doesn't matter, it's not Halo anymore."
curiouscharles
Member
all great points.
i always figured it was psychological, ie - nostalgia glasses at play.
but i also think it's some people used to be gods at old Halo and now that they're maybe not quite gods anymore they hate it and want to go back to being godly?
It kind of is, and I clarified my statement to make it more obvious.
Basically there's a strain of players that think that implementing anything beyond the golden tripod breaks the notion of what Halo. They think that when you have something beyond the golden tripod in a Halo game that it ceases to be meaningfully Halo-enough, or that it plays worse on some inherent level.
Sorry for all the edits, I'm a little drunk.
curiouscharles
Member
well, it's a well known fact that many people [read: most] are very reluctant / resistant to change.
I've read it all now lmao
Reach was MAGNITUDES better than H4. Bungie put out one hell of a package.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I think Halo suffers from itself by way of so many years of competitive gamers playing hundreds and thousands of games each that they literally compress/turn away population and result in quitters increasing as well. New players to Halo do not want to stick with it IMO, WZ/FF yes, arena nah I don't see it. It's hyper competitive in H5 and takes a helluva lot of coordination of controls, prediction and reaction plus practice to win...and that's without even considering going in as a party or not.
The light vehicles and "ol' default Halo" is the missing link IMO. I guess they made a hard and fast distinction with H5 to invest resources in Arena and WZ separately. I can only speak about my mates through LAN, online and multiple game versions but none of them play Halo 5 due to this hard and fast split compounded by low Aussie population. Most play the campaign solo, a sprinkling of coop but after some trials with multi they get lost to other games e.g. Destiny and Overwatch.
For 2 mates specifically they are godly levels of play and aren't gods in H5 due to arena team work required. For another 2 mates they liked WZ enough but all of us would play with H2/3 default style slayer/OBJ were there with light vehicles.
That doesn't mean the base gameplay was all that fun.
Halo3 was too slow for my liking. Wouldn't mind a speed boost in future installments. Also missing is the feedback. I didn't remember kills in the old Halo's looking so... unrewarding. That's one thing Halo 5 nails IMO.
That said, it's refreshing to see enhancements that don't last so long as they do now. There's no "get out of jail". It's kill or be killed rather than thrust/sprint/clamber to safety when you are getting out shot.
It sounds to me that you simply enjoy the mechanics so you marginalized the opinions of people who do not.
Sprinting IS hyperpunishable. But it's inclusion has also lead to the distances between cover points being scaled to accommodate the existence of sprint. The aim assists and magnetism are also expanded to accommodate for the possibility that enemies will be sprinting. the "problem" isn't that sprint isn't punished enough, it's that you are also punished when you aren't sprinting- because you are moving slower than the map and aiming system is designed for. If people identify playing without being in this constant state of compromise (i.e. They prefer Always moving at optimal speed and always being prepared to deal damage) as "feeling like halo" then they reasonably can't associate sprint with "feeling like halo".
Clamber isn't 'broken' simply because you can't shoot. (I wouldn't even say it's broken, just poorly implemented into the sandbox- the maps are broken) Yes,You can crouch jump to many areas, but there are a massive number of crucial jumps that require some special manuever + clamber in order to perform, and the implementation of these mechanics inarguably limits how these areas can be approached. If being able to platform in any direction, while facing in any other direction and simultaneously engage targets is something a player associates with feeling like halo then, because that something they enjoyed appreciated in previous halo's. a reasonable person would understand why this player doesn't think this implementation of clamber feels right in halo.
Spartan Charge is "broken" because it's tied Sprint which has the aforementioned "problems" and is tremendously powerful despite requiring no skill. Get rid of the magnetism, and/or tie it to thrust instead of Sprint and I don't think people would be as apprehensive to its existence. I don't understand why being "telegraphed" should excuse the issues people have with it.
There's nothing more deflating than getting a multikill after outstrafing and outgunning multiple opponents, then getting cleaned up by a Spartan Charge. The telegraph means nothing because I spent my thruster during my multikill so I can't dodge it. I can't keep distance between my opponent because he's already sprinting and gets a massive lunge. What did I do to deserve to die? What did he do to earn the kill? Nothing. Without sprint and SC I have a chance to survive or a chance to make him earn the kill. Instead I'm a sitting duck.
I get it man, you like that stuff. What others see as "gameflow problems" you see a 'tacticle burden', That's fine. But stop pretending people dislike these things without reason.
To me Halo 5 feels like halo. I reallly don't like the impact that the implementation some of the mechanics have had on the gameplay loop. i suspect many people can't associate these loop changes with "halo" because of certain characteristics they feel are important being overwritten or removed by these mechanics. Why can't you respect that?
Munch Poke
Member
It's good to see the same old debates are still ever present. Maybe it's just because I was so into Reach I'm more forgiving on the short comings of newer games.
I really wish we had more Halo 6 news or really anything to get more people playing H5 again. This is the first time I've had the majority of my Xbox live friends move over to something like Overwatch and not come back. I remember always hearing about how Reach decimated the community but it really feels more dead now than ever before.
Which is a shame because I consider 5 to be an incredibly well tuned game but there's just so much quality competition at the moment. I do miss my Xbox being almost exclusively used for Halo. But hey at least I finally got my real life energy sword, so there's that.
Also, I enjoy Sprinting and Spartan charging/Ground pounding. I hope that they continue to be used in future games with some rebalancing. And I don't mean nerf them, I do want them to be usable. Shit, this is the first iteration since Reach where I've seen myself slow down during gameplay just because of how brutalized you can get from sprinting around a map. That was never a thought during Reach/4.
I really wish we had more Halo 6 news or really anything to get more people playing H5 again. This is the first time I've had the majority of my Xbox live friends move over to something like Overwatch and not come back. I remember always hearing about how Reach decimated the community but it really feels more dead now than ever before.
Which is a shame because I consider 5 to be an incredibly well tuned game but there's just so much quality competition at the moment. I do miss my Xbox being almost exclusively used for Halo. But hey at least I finally got my real life energy sword, so there's that.
Also, I enjoy Sprinting and Spartan charging/Ground pounding. I hope that they continue to be used in future games with some rebalancing. And I don't mean nerf them, I do want them to be usable. Shit, this is the first iteration since Reach where I've seen myself slow down during gameplay just because of how brutalized you can get from sprinting around a map. That was never a thought during Reach/4.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
343 patched some jump out spots. They are literally patching out the fun.
Saw a halo dev mention it in a gdc talk. I'll find it and edit here
H5 allegedly reduced the reticle assistance, but definately upped the magnetism. I think the magnum simply has less aim assist and RRR than previous starting weapons, which gives the impression of less assists since it's the most used weapon, but everything else is heavy in magnetism, some guns have increased RRR.
Edit: receipts https://youtu.be/KcmJ4ASWDdc#t=54m10s
Edit2: I can't get the time stamp to work, but a question about weapon and melee tuning for SAs is asked and answered at 54:10. Dev clearly states they increase lunge range and retooled every weapon in the game in response to the 'enhanced' mobility.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
That video is just evidence of them making decisions to pander to a wider demographic. Triggered lol
I enjoyed it as a shooter.
Bloom was crappy, but it wasn't that bad. It was still a fun shooter, all things considered.
ZeezbruhTV
Member
Auto-aim is reduced, and they definitely jacked up magnetism. They made it harder to track the enemy, but you can hit shots when you miss. Baffling.
Also nothing touches how bad H4 was.