The whole point of this update is to increase the skill barrier on weapons like the assault rifle because players were having their ego challenged when killed by the AR. After they've removed Team Skirmish this game is now basically Ranked only or mini games. It's a sad day to see Halo go from Halo 3 to this, not everyone cares about Esports 343, maybe if you realised this Halo wouldn't be on this downwards spiralling train. Maybe Bungie were right to ignore the competitive scene, it's definitely done wonders for Destiny not being so competitive centric.
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
I do agree that the Esports focus is a deterrent for alot of Halo fans. Bungie never really focused on Esports other than MLG playlist's (which were some of the elast popular playlists in Halo 3 and Halo: Reach). Halo 5's biggest flaw at launch was the focus on the competitive scene. Halo was popular before MLG and it made MLG popular, not the other way around.
People don't gloss over these things really-
1st of all the CE magnum wasn't OP. You spawned with a true utility weapon that, with skill, was useful at all ranges- which allowed skill to counteract map control- something that no game has gotten right since.
I remember every game receiving its due criticism.
I rememeber halo2 getting trashed for its campaign and sandbox balancing right after launch. Halo2sux.com was a thing. I also remember the dev quickly pushing an update, that atleast altered the starting weapons so that decent balance could be had within the existing sandbox. And it only took a few weeks instead of 1.5 years.
Hitscan isn't inherently better than Projectile. H3 suffered from bad netcode and random spread in the BR. It was criticized for those things.
Reach is continuously credited with starting Halo on the wrong path. I don't feel like this is glossed over - and it isn't even true! H4 began development in 09 - prior to Reach shipping - and without much interaction between Bungie and 343. 343 Didnt even know how these mechanics would be publically received as modular options, yet they made the bold decision to turn them into base. That's squarely on them!
I don't even know what it means to say H5's story tries.... tries to do what? To avoid developing characters? To replace previously established storybeats with a plot that is seemingly pulled out of thin air?
This doesn't make any sense. Having a properly balanced weapon sandbox is better for all players. It has NOTHING to do with esports.
the MM system works best when players separated by skill- which is hard to do when the starting weapon nullifies skill- this is , along with similar balancing issues throughout the sandbox, what leads to matches feeling sweaty all over the skill distribution.
It's crazy that you are arguing an OP AR is better for the game on a casual level - when the most popular halo games for casuals , including halo 3, had ARs that were pea shooters.
Why did this work? Because people who favored the easier to use autos ended up playing against people who didn't have the skill to use the precision weapons, allowing them all to enjoy using their weapon of choice.
The items that you keep calling Esports focus were actually targeted at widening halo's appeal ( the advanced movement mechanics- the homegenized weapon balancing that you seem to value, the grenade hit markers, etc) . These concepts are THE OPPOSITE of esports focus.
I agree that the playlist management has been horrendous- especially on the social side of things- but that's been a problem LONG before H5.
It's really not. I can't believe anyone would argue this benefits casual players and isn't just pandering to the competitive community. Most of the casual scene already ditched Halo 5 a long time ago with the way Arena is structured. Wasn't there not even non-Ranked playlists to begin with? 343 should really take notes from the Coalition on how to handle casual and competitive playlists.
How can you site H3 as your reference point and not note that the Autos were intentionally much less efficient than precision weapons? It was done this way for a reason.
Use logic man. If the AR allows you to compete with players who are higher skilled then you, how "social" do you think your matches are going to be? It inarguably damages the matchmaking system by putting you against people you shouldn't be against. That's not good for either party.
With this move - 343 is moving things more towards how Bungie did it - which is what you seem to desire.
There's a reason why esports players and casual players alike prefer Bungie approach to balancing- because it works better for everybody.
If anything 343s attempt to make ARs retain their usefulness instead of just straight nerfing them should be pleasing to casual fans...
The crappy playlist management is an entirely different issue. Warzone ate your BTB, and most of 4v4, not esports. You don't "balance" a game around casual or around esports. Just just make a well balanced game - and it will work across the spectrum.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Extermination is a good mode. I'm curious to see how it'll improve in Halo 6 hopefully with more Forge improvements and/or 343 spotlighting it. Not sure if I want 343 to make it an official mode with its own maps though.
Yeah it's a tone of fun.
It's not perfect - I don't think H5's spawn system is ideal for it, and obviously it could use some game specific UI elements - but it's close.
I'd want my old gametypes back before they focus on making this official, but it has potential.
NippleViking
Banned
Some may consider this spoilers, but thoughts on the
See here: https://i.imgur.com/Yx8fazw.jpg
Plz give Eldritch, Lovecraftian, space monsters, 343.
Primordial from Warfleet
See here: https://i.imgur.com/Yx8fazw.jpg
Plz give Eldritch, Lovecraftian, space monsters, 343.
Stephen_drewz
Member
Randomly decided to play some H5 multi(I bought the game on release, never played it) and I am having a tonne of fun in Slayer. Finished my placements Silver 2, am now sitting a win away from Silver 6. Never really played a Halo game before so there is alot to adjust to but so far I am enjoying it quite a bit.
Not tried any other modes yet, being in Australia I doubt anything other than Slayer and maybe Team Arena(or whatever that little playlist was) is even populated. Might try a few out later and see.
Is it only skins that can be used in modes like Slayer? Have got a few weapons with different sights etc but as far as I can tell it's a warzone only thing?
Not tried any other modes yet, being in Australia I doubt anything other than Slayer and maybe Team Arena(or whatever that little playlist was) is even populated. Might try a few out later and see.
Is it only skins that can be used in modes like Slayer? Have got a few weapons with different sights etc but as far as I can tell it's a warzone only thing?
That's right. In Arena (which is where you find Slayer and Team Arena playlists) only cosmetics req can be used. Any reqs that effect gameplay are for Warzone.
Saw that yesterday. I think I can forget my dream to see 343 doing a good art direction for Halo as it was in the past. It's cool, I like the idea being the Primordial, but it's ugly as hell.
VincentMatts
Member
I agree. The game is way too competitive and that's a huge part of what makes it not fun to play
Yeah the weapon balancing update doesnt seem likely to address the balance issues with vehicles.
That's truly unfortunate. Best case scenario is that the BR tweaks make hog gunner more fun, but everything else is still gonna be fucked.
I hate the current art direction so much - everything is so industrial and vanilla with no color.
NippleViking
Banned
What don't you like about it? They're modelled so as to be the precursor archetype to flood. They fit perfectly in Halo because they're based upon classic Bungie designs, and already seem a lot more compelling than any 343i era enemy-designs thus far - not that that's saying much.
I like that 343i has resisted making the top-dog of the Universe a bi-pedals anthropomorphic creature. These are ultra-intelligent Space spiders, with an immutable urge to create and manipulate biology, including their own. As result they change figure radically, there is enormous diversity in appearances, and there is narrative opportunity to have interesting minions.
Though I do agree with you. Current Halo art absolutely sucks. But per above, new Halos don't lack in colour. They lack in neons, and seems to dilute colours by using piss filters on a lot of the maps, whilst the lighting itself has a blue/purple tint.
Same. That's one other reason I really dislike Kenneth Scott work on the Halo serie (since he was an excellent art director for DOOM) and what he brought with him before leaving (while I'm glad he left the company btw).
They tried to give the human facilities and style a very clean, rounded, big and sanitized look while making the Covenant very organic, both with the shapes and the technology.
While I understand why they wanted to do this, they, in my opinion, failed to keep what Halo established for years, having a excellent blend between mechanic shape and natural structure, with a retro-futuristic kind of style. What I like for the art direction was that, even if it's in 500 years, the style make like it could happen tomorrow, making it a not-so-far distant future. This is now lost... (Well, at least, I got some pleasing art with Halo Wars 2.)
And it starts from the concept art step:
Taking a look at both concepts, if they didn't have a logo on the bottom, I couldn't tell which one was from Halo or DOOM. Could you?
And when I look at Bungie human style, it's way more grungy, not so clean and sanitized:
And the first one is even not from Bungie, it's from Certain Affinity for the Defiant Map Pack from Reach, yet they kept the style Halo always had.
The one thing which burns me it that 343 doesn't seem to want to move from this art direction, but they had no hesitation to ditch the old and classic one...
Plus, I don't like how they keep increasing the specular on their structure and 3D models, increasing the sanitized looks...
As I said, I don't like 343 going full organic shape for alien species, it wasn't really a thing for Halo, maybe apart from the Flood, and even when the Flood were, by nature, organic, they didn't had such organic shapes.
I don't mind the Precursor no being bipedal, that's quite cool to see something new, but you know, I guess it's just personal taste at this point. I'm not a huge fan of organic shaped characters, the one exception may have been Mass Effect because it perfectly suited the universe they were in.
And also, I don't like how everything 343 designs is meant to be frightening. To be honest, I would have make nightmare when I was a kid if I played a game with every characters having teeth like the Guardians, the Promethean Soldiers, the Halo 4 Flooded Spartan form, etc...
And for the lightning and the neon aspect, I think this picture show everything I could ever said about the design approach from 343 compared to the classic one:
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I can see that hahah, although the Flood were creepy in CE when I was a kid. With the Prometheans it's especially creepy when you consider that they're trapped souls in those bodies; they're prisoners doomed to an eternity of being enslaved and having to endure perpetual war.
As for the Primordial, I like the design. And for the general art direction, I think Halo could benefit from including the best of both worlds, classic styles + new.
Ahah yeah, I may have been dishonest if I didn't mention the Flood giving me fear when I first encounter them, it was creepy as hell haha. But you know, the power fantasy behind Halo made me brave enough to overcome this, it wasn't nightmarish.
But this:
This is just disturbing and inappropriate (for me) to what Halo is. Note that I like this aesthetic in DOOM 2016 as it fits the universe.
Same goes for the Guardian. How could they started with things as cool as this:
And give us this in the end:
Again, Halo 2 Anniversary, multiplayer, was a good mix between the old and the new, thanks to Certain Affinity once again. It wasn't as pleasing to me as the classic art, but it was a really good mix between both.
And for The Primordial, I somehow prefer the vision they gave us with Halo Mythos (even if it's not really my kind, it's still good):
I don't see anything wrong with primordial - it looks flood-like: organic and grotesque. even in Bungie's art flood forms aren't bipedal unless they find a bipedal host.
That said, i generally don't like most of 343s artwork because it's flashy and complex vs simple and functional from Bungie's days.
I guess, in general, there always seems to be too much unnecessary detail - details that catch your eye, then seem out of place.
Edit: i hate that prometheans and guardians have faces... so dumb
That said, i generally don't like most of 343s artwork because it's flashy and complex vs simple and functional from Bungie's days.
I guess, in general, there always seems to be too much unnecessary detail - details that catch your eye, then seem out of place.
Edit: i hate that prometheans and guardians have faces... so dumb
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Part of new Halo's problem is that 343i blew their load by putting the Forerunners right there on the screen. Their presence as a powerful, mysterious, but ultimately absent race was an important part of what many people loved about it. They were always part of the story, but never the story.
I don't really blame 343i for that. I had been as eager as anybody for them to show us the Forerunners, not knowing that their mystery is what I wanted.
I've come to believe that Halo fans in general don't really know what they want.
But that ship has now sailed - that's ok, they can work with that. But I believe the Precursors can become to Halo what the Forerunners were. Tell us a bit about them, hint at their appearance. But I think it would be a huge mistake to show them so explicitly.
I don't really blame 343i for that. I had been as eager as anybody for them to show us the Forerunners, not knowing that their mystery is what I wanted.
I've come to believe that Halo fans in general don't really know what they want.
But that ship has now sailed - that's ok, they can work with that. But I believe the Precursors can become to Halo what the Forerunners were. Tell us a bit about them, hint at their appearance. But I think it would be a huge mistake to show them so explicitly.
nillapuddin
Member
Even the Guardians had exposed teeth, ffs...
the exposed teeth thing is the worst fucking thing.
Whoever at 343 had a hard on for this hopefully can now move on.
The Primordial design in Halo Mythos was better. This one looks just like a Swamp monster out of a comic.
Are any of the new books any good? Something about blue team? any books I need to read because the hold crucial plot details? Like they did before Halo 4 and Halo 5?
I'm so out of Halo idk.. I have to agree 343s artstyle is just not to my liking, their general idea how to handle Halo seems weirder and weirder to me.
Whoever at 343 had a hard on for this hopefully can now move on.
The Primordial design in Halo Mythos was better. This one looks just like a Swamp monster out of a comic.
Are any of the new books any good? Something about blue team? any books I need to read because the hold crucial plot details? Like they did before Halo 4 and Halo 5?
I'm so out of Halo idk.. I have to agree 343s artstyle is just not to my liking, their general idea how to handle Halo seems weirder and weirder to me.
Prinz Eugn
Member
God, this is such a better design it hurts. Anthropomorphizing them is extremely uncreative and makes them another generic monster.
That one just looks like a really weird big sword to me. Don't like it at all.
My favorite was the original eagle like one in the reveal trailer.
Well, before 343 Industries, I loved how the Forerunner were just part of the scenery and were just the embodiment of a way more advanced specie than we could possibly imagine. We didn't need to know more about them to be honest, at least, not through the game other than their installation or terminals.
When Bungie ended the trilogy, 343 had two options: following the Master Chief and the Forerunner aspect, or leave Master Chief behind and show us the after war universe, as they did with the Karen Traviss books.
Well, I wish they would have go with the second option... They should have left Master Chief being a legend and on its own journey.
I stopped reading the books after the Greg Bear Forerunner trilogy, which was really good, since after this, the stories 343 had in mind weren't really interesting to me. But I would recommend their latest entry for the comic about Atriox, it's quite good and feature the classic art style.
This. 100% this. The Phoenix design 343 showed us first when they announced Halo for Xbox One was cool, but I dunno man, I loved how we could not figure what a Forerunner thing was when Bungie owned their design.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Yeah, I don't like how everything needs to look/feel similar to humans. If the Primordial is ever explicitly shown and has a human-looking face..... so help me baby jesus.
User 73706
Banned
One thing I still wish would have happened with the Didact is that he was constantly confined to his suit, at least from our perspective. It'd help keep the the organic parts of the Forerunner form remain mysterious while still giving us a general idea: they're bipedal humanoids, which is in line with what we know. It'd also reinforce the idea of the Didact being a rival to Chief, as both of them are rarely ever seen out-of-suit. You could even retain some of the organic design aspects if you wanted to make it seem like the Forerunners were partially biotechnological, like, the Didact is his suit in some capacity and that's the only reason his body still works fine after being in stasis for so long.
It's also crazy to me that they introduced those infected Spartan designs in Halo 4 which have pretty much no precedent in the franchise, and we still haven't encountered any Flood in a mainline game since. Granted, Halo Wars 2 apparently has them, but I haven't played it.
It's also crazy to me that they introduced those infected Spartan designs in Halo 4 which have pretty much no precedent in the franchise, and we still haven't encountered any Flood in a mainline game since. Granted, Halo Wars 2 apparently has them, but I haven't played it.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I like your parallel with the Didact they could've taken. Too bad they removed that mystery, although they can still have that with Precursors now.
As for the bolded, 343 has soooo much to work with for future titles, I hope they execute on whatever Halo 6 sets out to achieve.
More Cortana/Chief romance/rampancy.
Prinz Eugn
Member
I mean, the eagle isn't terrible but it's not great, since it obviously is an eagle, not a mysterious construct from a lost civilization with unknowably advanced technology. Plus, the most powerful weapons in this universe are shaped like big pieces of jewelry and apparently built in a giant space flower, so "really weird big sword" might even be a little too on-the-nose.
This reminds me of a this obscure series in which the main villain wore a mask, but what was underneath was only briefly teased to build it up until the very end when he took it off and you got to see his face. 343i should check those movies out. The first three installments were pretty good, but the ones after got pretty iffy. I'm sure they can relate.
Narpas Sword0
Member
I put this on with a friend tonight for the first time in at least a year. I was happy with my performance but he got wrecked. Even I was fumbling with the controls. This game has so many functions, and they are so different from mainstream FPSes that there is no skill carryover. I kept more of my old muscle memory than he did. He will never play again.
They need to make a more straightforward game that is just fun. Last page had a ton of great remarks on this.
Also being greeted with a notice that they are retooling all of the weapons in a beta almost two years after launch was embarassing and intimidating. Come on.
Also Social seemed to all be goofy bullshit aside from BTB, we didn't want to do ranked but there wasn't much else.
They need to make a more straightforward game that is just fun. Last page had a ton of great remarks on this.
Also being greeted with a notice that they are retooling all of the weapons in a beta almost two years after launch was embarassing and intimidating. Come on.
Also Social seemed to all be goofy bullshit aside from BTB, we didn't want to do ranked but there wasn't much else.
Not sure but i am guessing around the 25th.
curiouscharles
Member
nah it's easy
rakkadakka
Member
That part of the statement made no sense to me.
Had that poster or his friend played any FPS from the last 3-4 years?
Prinz Eugn
Member
Halo has always been different. It's easy if you jump back and forth often, but the muscle memory is not the same as other FPS's.
And yeah, the playlists are screwy. Lots of ranked ones, but not enough population to sustain them and non-ranked equivalents.
curiouscharles
Member
I... agree with him. I still can't figure out how to incorporate stabilize into jumps, let alone use it in game (auto off), still get fucked by mid air melee because of ground pound, still seem to have sprint thrust slide jump peter out at thrust, etc. The game is very convoluted.
I'm curious as well. Hopefully they don't just give up on the game and things will get better. I really wish the PC version had more support considering streamers like Summit really want to play it but the mouse lag is still an issue.
curiouscharles
Member
oh god i really hope so...
still hurts every time i go to the PC custom games and i can shoot like a golden god...
NippleViking
Banned
Isn't the superiority just due to using mouse, higher resolution, and having different aiming?
I dunno, never played it. I do recall hearing impressions and many seemed to say how it felt better, including snakebite. This was all beforbefore the heavy aim "fixes" though
If you're using default controller settings, it's not worth stabilizing with auto off. Bumper jumper is a different story with sprint being on the A button, which makes stabilizing super easy. Just play a bunch of Firefight and use it all the time. Eventually it becomes muscle memory.
Feel the Swift
Member
No, the X1 controller is legitimately better to use on PC
User 73706
Banned
I used Bumper Jumper back in 3 and could not for the life of me use it in Reach or 4 for some reason. It's like the only way I can play in 5, though.
Isn't stabilizing only when zooming? I don't remember how to use this, as I never did when I played Halo 5, it just doesn't feel natural on Halo, I loved to fall when aiming/zooming.