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Halo |OT 20| It really does feel like Halo
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Fahzgoolin
Banned
In all respect Frank, I didn't interpret his comment as "elitism." That probably means I and others come off as elitists too often and turn you and other devs off, which is unfortunate.
The thing is, this franchise and games "similar" to it have been around a long time. When most of the people watching these Halo vids are probably hardcore Halo fans and see odd things like really large indicators and seemingly other "illogical" changes such as grenade hit markers, over sized Halo 1 sniper reticules and such...wouldn't you expect that kind of feedback?
I say this with absolute respect and can't wait for the MCC and will play it even when Halo 5 is out and I know making a game and marketing it is incredibly tough. NOT trying to be argumentative.
ElzarTheBam
Member
The more I think about, that version of Bloodline was pretty much heavies.
God know what heavies would actually look like.
God know what heavies would actually look like.
NobleGundam
Banned
1080p Spaghetti Monster?
To be fair, Steitzer does sound bad compared to the old titles, and the capture/defend is completely unnecessary.
BB just loves the franchise, as do all of us, or we wouldn't be here.
GringoSuave89
Banned
First thing that popped in my head too.
Think I'm going to go digital this time. I don't like spending full price on digital, and I hate that I won't have a physical copy, but the convenience makes up for it all.
I'm not sure it's necessarily elitism, Frankie. I think the concern that people have is that too much focus is being given to newer players, and there's a worry that the nature/quality of the game will be compromised in the process. It's definitely something that can happen, and has happened with other franchises as well.
In the case of all the medals, defend/capture notifiers, event notifiers, etc., it's a matter of signal to noise ratio. Sure, maybe some of this will help newer/inexperienced/less skilled players. Maybe they'll just ignore it like many often do. But for the players who know the game a little, it becomes a lot of visual clutter that distracts from the game itself.
So I think what's happening is people who are more familiar with the game, more skilled, whatever you want to call it, are seeing changes to the game that don't benefit them or are a negative for them. So they start to resent the newer players a bit. Naturally this isn't always expressed in the most eloquent or constructive way, however...
3. he tried to buy 4, but you know...
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Not a fan of the way Steitzer sounds in Halo 2A.. something about his voice sounds a bit tinny, robotic almost.
One other small complaint I have about the Halo 2A MP sounds is that the Spartans seem to not have death screams, much like Halo 4. I really liked the "Auuuuggghh!" sounds when playing MP in Halo 1-3.. it just felt right.
One other small complaint I have about the Halo 2A MP sounds is that the Spartans seem to not have death screams, much like Halo 4. I really liked the "Auuuuggghh!" sounds when playing MP in Halo 1-3.. it just felt right.
Awww yissss!!!
Speaking as a Halo player since Halo PC in 2003 (earlier if you count playing it on Xbox at a friend's house) I whole-heartedly agree with you here. First it was the wank over the Halo CE multi being a direct port from Halo PC, then it was medals, and now people aren't even happy with the Steitzer V.O.? This crap is seriously getting old.
Then again, I've not been on GAF long, maybe this is just par for the course...
Slept 4 hours last night because I was up playing Destiny so my bad on the spelling, okay?
And I know reading all this stuff must be a bummer but I'm just expressing my opinion. Steitzer sounds great when it's just his voice clean and clear. When it comes to feedback I provide, Frank, I'm probably not going to like it if I find a change or addition to be pointless and/or counterintuitive. Unfortunately that is the case with much of 343's changes/tweaks to Halo. I'm sorry you don't like it but I'm just sharing my opinion when stuff 343 does is a bit of a bummer.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I agree...and like I said above, the vast majority of people watching and commenting on the Halo videos/news are probably more invested in the franchise. So naturally we are going to cry wolf when we see something that seems unnecessary or strange. First world problems, I know.
I want our criticism here to be well received by Frank and I would hope he and other devs assume the reason why we are here posting in the community forum is because we freaking LOVE the game. Up front and transparent responses on why things are added and their direction of the franchise would, I think, be received better than silence (not that we are entitled to any feedback from 343 at all).
Or maybe what you don't consider important, is important to others. Shocking.
The issue isn't with the VO. The issue is wirh the liberal use of filters and whatnot to modify his voice. I want to listen to an announcer, old-school-arena-shooter-style. I don't want to listen to some crazy futuristic announcer to feel like I'm in the matrix or in some fancy make believe competitive sport.
Orochinagis
Member
I object to opinions being stated as if they're objective facts. There's seldom any "I think..." when I am irritated by something, but more than that, I'm ALWAYS irritated, no matter what the game, when the user base is deliberately exclusionary or dismissive of newcomers.
I, for obvious reasons, WANT new players to play Halo, even old school Halo.
Anyway, I am not going to argue about it because as usual I'm right and y'all is wrong.
I, for obvious reasons, WANT new players to play Halo, even old school Halo.
Anyway, I am not going to argue about it because as usual I'm right and y'all is wrong.
The Halo born come.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I do like the more old school approach of not trying to explain away the multiplayer. Making it infinity slayer TO ME is hokey and out of place. I don't think multiplayer needs to be rationalized like that. It is what it is and that's why we love it.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
He sounds like the announcer from Perfect Dark Zero (this game was fun, haters!). Took me a while to pinpoint the familiarity, but it just clicked lol.
It's the little things that count, like the importance of having COG's vs Locusts in Gears because of the cool grunts each side would make.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
I think a lot of the discontent is based on the style and design changes in and of themselves, and less so on changes made for the sake of newcomers.
Steitzer sounds worse. It's subjective but a lot of people agree. And the huge text for flag defense and offense is just unappealing to look at. I personally don't care that it's there for newcomers; it's ugly regardless of its intent. It's too big and I think that's bad design.
Early didact concept.
Not shocking, just seems like, IN MY OPINION, I'm seeing a whole lot of "mountain out of a molehill" take on issues here.
However, we CAN agree that the font for the flag indicators is a bit outlandishly large. Best of both worlds would be flag indicators (symbol only) on the HUD continuously, but then the text pops up only when focusing/looking at those indicators.
The Henery
Member
New Xbox One owner right here baby! Pumped to download all these updates
http://m.hotukdeals.com/deals/xbox-one-console-with-alien-isolation-evil-within-305-00-tesco-2025127
Saw that and jumped on it. I've paid 240 for the console after selling those games. Too good to pass up.
http://m.hotukdeals.com/deals/xbox-one-console-with-alien-isolation-evil-within-305-00-tesco-2025127
Saw that and jumped on it. I've paid 240 for the console after selling those games. Too good to pass up.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Frankie, any reason why the Spartan death screams didn't make the cut for Halo 2A MP?
Sorta looks like an Elite wearing Arbiter armor inspired by the Didacts armor.
Sorta looks like an Elite wearing Arbiter armor inspired by the Didacts armor.
Well when you start changing shit for the sake of change, and going against a lot of the pre established design philosophies of a 10+ year old franchise, you're gonna get pushback from its hardcore fan base.
To clarify, not an early Didact concept, but an early concept of a central villain. Who ultimately became the Didact.
I'm taking a break from all my worries.
It sure will help a lot.
See you all on the 12th.
Cheers.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I know you aren't gonna argue, which means you probably won't respond..but for the sake of inquiry...
Isn't it true that the vast majority of the player base is going to be Halo fans that are at least familiar with the games/gametypes etc? Therefore, why does there seem to be an emphasis on appealing to new players? This assumption/suspicion is indeed often hyperbolic (which is divisive), but I think it's stemming from the outcry of Halo 4 MP.
I don't think this brand of "elitism" is born from a hatred of new players, it's born from a frustrating feeling that new players are being appealed to more than the loyal Halo veteran that knows how to play. If some of these "features" could be turned off that would be great.
Games are hard to make, hard to mass market...and expensive too. We are all ignorant, but it hardly feels like bliss most of the time.
EDIT: Posted after he said "cheers." Sigh...
Crimson Kopite
Banned
ok c u
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
But we were all newcomers to Halo at one point, no? Also, how many people excited about this collection are newcomers anyway? Everyone knows Halo, just about everyone has played Halo. We see posts everyday about people reliving their memories, and while yes a lot of them will be new too, how helpful you think will it be to have DEFEND and CAPTURE in your face at all times? Is there any proof of this helping draw in a larger audience at the expense of disappointing your already substantial fanbase? If anything, hasn't Halo 4 already proven otherwise?
Not trying to be controversial, but I'm sure this is what many are thinking when reading your recent comments.
Before you go, tell the Pistol I'll be waiting for her <3
The Henery
Member
See you tomorrow
Maybe it proves we really do need The Derek Zoolander School for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too.
All I'm gonna say is that the barebones, simplistic interface of the old Halo games did a damn fine job of attracting new players.
If you cater to the competitive audience (and your matchmaking system isn't terrible), then everyone will enjoy the game. It's not about making new players feel badass from the get-go, it's about showing them their real skill and allowing them to see improvement over time.
If you cater to the competitive audience (and your matchmaking system isn't terrible), then everyone will enjoy the game. It's not about making new players feel badass from the get-go, it's about showing them their real skill and allowing them to see improvement over time.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Whoa, didn't know that the Didact wasn't always the villain. Cool stuff. Once you're back from your halogaf break, I would love to hear more about that if it is something you can talk about.
And IMO AR starts are better than BR starts on small maps.
Orochinagis
Member
Thats a cool ordenamental armor anyway. Maybe you can use it in Halo 5 in a different Elite faction.
Go for a walk, drink tea and watch "Los tres garcia"
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I thinking of how this is gonna affect other objective modes.
Territories with CAPTURE DEFEND omnipresent in 3 different places at all times
Assault with the big DEFUSE label for the few seconds you can do that
Big BALL for Oddball, with a PROTECT when your team has it, maybe
Territories with CAPTURE DEFEND omnipresent in 3 different places at all times
Assault with the big DEFUSE label for the few seconds you can do that
Big BALL for Oddball, with a PROTECT when your team has it, maybe
ElzarTheBam
Member
I see that too, trust me, like I said I've been playing Halo for nearly the whole life of the series. I guess why it doesn't bug me is that I can see from the perspective of 343i they want to do Halo THEIR way, rather than copy/paste Bungie Halo games. If they did that with each game people would complain to them about that too (not necessarily here on GAF but across various spheres).
Truly to each their own.
Which is what CSGO, LoL, and DotA2 do, and look how amazing those games are doing.
I can understand that you want all players to be happy, this includes new and old. But Halo is now a mature series. Almost 15 years old. I'd feel confident saying the majority of the fans and playerbase will always be older fans, people who have played the previous games.
So you have to keep that in mind when making the games. It's why I don't really envy the position they're in. On the one hand, wanting to get newer players interested in the series, feeling like they can hang with the rest, not feel overwhelmed, but on the other hand, keeping in mind, while we're not all pros, we are proficient enough in Halo play we don't need the giant white text prompts. Ideally, I'd like it to be like the medal fix. Allow those who don't need them to be turned off.
So you have to keep that in mind when making the games. It's why I don't really envy the position they're in. On the one hand, wanting to get newer players interested in the series, feeling like they can hang with the rest, not feel overwhelmed, but on the other hand, keeping in mind, while we're not all pros, we are proficient enough in Halo play we don't need the giant white text prompts. Ideally, I'd like it to be like the medal fix. Allow those who don't need them to be turned off.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I feel like the Bomb Planted twitch chat discussion was decent at summing this up. All 3 people besides "Golden Boy" thought that 343 is taking Halo in a terrible direction. Frank would probably describe these attitudes as "elitist."
Golden boy expressed that hit markers and crap are features that a lot of gamers will pick up and feel some level of familiarity and therefore like it more. However...I think this begs the question and I think it's a logical fallacy: Does adding features such as large in your face objective markers and text, hit markers, grenade indicators, etc really bring in new players (especially from the COD realm)?
I'm genuinely curious...
Point taken. I'll be more specific when I disapprove of things but will also add, when applicable, that I hold an opinion shared by others.
And new players can and should enjoy Halo. But the answer isn't to display text at a huge font, in my opinion. Instead the player should be better informed.
How can one accomplish that? There are a few ways I can think of off the top of my head. Include game tips in loading screens along with the flashy loading animations. Or, even better, create a training mode or training session designed to run players through different game types and highlight UI elements.
That would be better that permanently adding obstructive text, in my opinion.
If I preload this and get this boom skull, is it possible to get the bandanna skull later on? (as that was a pre-order bonus from EB Games here in Australia)
I want that infinite ammo skull as it will make Legendary so much easier, but I also want the convenience of playing this as soon as the clock strikes over (plus no discs and whatnot)
I want that infinite ammo skull as it will make Legendary so much easier, but I also want the convenience of playing this as soon as the clock strikes over (plus no discs and whatnot)