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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.

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G

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
This fucking ranking system.

343 pls.

Win and be top on team -> +9
Lose and be top on team -> -19
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
I haven't read a single comment on the lack of friendly fire lol. What are your thoughts that you can't betray teammates now?
Click to expand...

Eh. Kind of grateful, there was this one dude who started raging in game chat when somebody else picked up the sniper. Probably would have seen a team kill if FF was on.

Also, I'm intrigued by the possibilities of 2-man grenade jumps.

wwm0nkey said:
Go in to MM in teams of 4 and travel in a pack = instna win
Click to expand...

That'll wreck teams of randoms, but a good team in the right positioning will take you apart.
 
S

Sephzilla

Member
Things I like so far:
-AR is actually useful
-SMG is actually useful
-No shield recharge with sprint
-BR feels great
-Clamber
-Thruster pack

Things I dont like so far:
-ADS is unnecessary visual clutter
-DMR feels off
-Sniper rifle scoping takes too long
-Way too much bloom and haze
-No classic control scheme
-Base movement speed is way too slow

Things I'm meh about:
-Smart ground pound chances happen far too rarely. It feels like an unnecessary addition
-Sprint could easily go away if base movement speed was upgraded
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Motion tracker is pathetic. Running in circles, overly defensive playing, knowing you're every move.. It's all bullshit.

They have pro teams in-house. What's going on? Why can't they just test this in the beta? It's especially painful because it's so apparent what Halo can be when your movement isn't being gimped..
 
C

Caja 117

Member
I like the reduce aim assist, hate the base movement, is just too slow, and sprint + energy sword is just as bad as before, br start please....
 
V

VisceralBowl

Member
From gaming side:
Conflict said:
As a COD fan who wanted to get into halo but didn't like the slow speed/shields this feels great. Players die a lot quicker, aim down sights lets me be more accurate like in COD and the movement feels a lot like Advanced Warfare. Guns feel more like modern weapons instead of the lame Sci Fi stuff that halo used to have as well. Probably going to buy this now!
Edit: Kill Cam is awesome too, part of the reason why I didn't like the past Halo games.
Click to expand...
 
B

buddha0991

Member
and yet there are far more people saying fuck ads...so who cares if this guy or two likes it


ok i think i should come back when im not so hostile to shit
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Anyone want a semi pro rank? Ill trade for gold or lower.

This ranking matchmaking system actually does its job for once. I just wanna dong on scrubs but keep getting matched against good people :(
 
R

Ranker

Neo Member
Hey guys, Josh here, this is me reading your posts on matchmaking and ranking.



I'm not w/ 343 anymore, so I just have some "outsider" comments I can make.

First, at a match level, the matchmaking looks good. I've seen a lot of really close matches, and heard from you folks that you're having a lot of close ones.

Yeah, you do get some noobs on your teams sometimes, and lose because of it. But this happens randomly to everyone. The other team will get baddies just as often as you do. If it really just is bad luck, it'll wash out as you play more.

Condescending Soapbox: In my experience, just being able to kill better than anyone on your team doesn't make you a winner in a "team" game. Getting the rest of your team to play their best together (no matter how bad that is) is part of that winning skill. Though I agree it's probably impossible to do without voice.


Now, onto ranking. I totally understand the comments about personal performance vs. team performance, and losing more points than it feels you deserve.

It's actually a lot harder than just giving a few more points to the top performers if you want to have a simple ranking system without:

  1. huge and easy to use exploits
  2. encouraging players to compete against their own teammates (stealing kills, etc)

Both of those would have a huge negative impact on the game, and design is often about compromising on a bunch of points. No system is perfect.

Trust me (or don't?) I've tried it. I've tried a ton of different systems on both real players, real data, and simulated data.

I could probably come up with some *really* complex systems that did an OK job at this, but at that point players would have no idea what was going on with the rankings, and lose confidence in them. At least this way, you know players with high ranks have eventually won their way to them.

Also, think of it this way. Imagine you have a team of Pros. Imagine each of them is much better than most of you will ever be (sorry!). But, imagine that part of their main strategy is to feed most of their kills to one player, resulting in him having the best spread and and the rest having a lot of assists. A system too focused on personal performance would end up giving you some really weird rankings where that player is far ahead of the rest of his team, despite them all actually being really close in skill.

My personal feeling on ranking systems is to try and have them fit the game. If this was a more casual BTB with lots of solo folks running around and having little impact on the win, then I like systems that are more personal (like BTB CSR in H4). But I like the team-focus for arena.

I know it sucks when those individual experiences happen, but they will wash out if you truly deserve the higher ranks and play enough games to remove the randomness.

So, anyways, I'm enjoying the posts. It's good stuff. I'll lurk around some more.
 
D

DeadNames

Banned
Tawpgun said:
Anyone want a semi pro rank? Ill trade for gold or lower.

This ranking matchmaking system actually does its job for once. I just wanna dong on scrubs but keep getting matched against good people :(
Click to expand...

Funny cuz I've been getting absolutely wrecked all night

Feels bad :(

Fuck AR starts
 
B

btags

Member
Quoting my beta impressions from the beta thread:

btags said:
After playing in the preview weekend and today here is my list of changes that I would like to see:

1. The SMG is too overpowerd with the scope. Either remove the scope (unlikely, but preferred) or at least make the scope have a greater spread. I think unscoped the SMG is great as is because it dominates in close quarters as it should. Although I hope that the SAW is not returning as I feel the SMG mostly fills its role now.

2. The animation for scoping should be increased in speed, because it feels like it is too slow especially when using the sniper.

3. I am actually fine with the sights they have in the game, but I would prefer if they removed the physical gun model yet kept the same hud elements that bringing up the scope currently has because those look great.

4. I would like for scopes to be removed from the weapons that traditionally do not have them as I feel it extends their range beyond what they should be. The AR is already good at a decent distance, it doesn't need a scope to further improve its range.

5. Again, not really necessary but I think kill cams should be removed. If they are not, they should extend the time before death that it displays, because currently you only see the last shot or so that killed you. This makes it really hard to determine where grenades or people came from when using the kill cam.

6. Remove the intro and exit sequences or change them from their current form as they are too dude-bro. In the same vein, I love spartan chatter but would prefer they remove lines that say "snipes" or "power weapons" as this makes the chatter feel more gamey and not like a squad of military personnel.

Most of these are pretty minor things and I am actually incredibly happy with the rest of the games. Audio and visuals are great, as is the feel of shooting a weapon and the reduced aim assist. All of the spartan abilities also work well and I do not feel any are overpowered. Map design is also really good, artistically and gameplay wise.I really can't wait to play more and see how the rest of the weapons are coming along. I hope the covenant weapons become more competitive in this game because I love the audiovisuals associated with them but I feel that they are pretty ineffective in halo post combat evolved.
Click to expand...
 
C

Caja 117

Member
Btw, is it just me or midship remake is a map that is difficult to tell where you at? Sometimes i couldnt tell if i was heading to car or pink
 
C

Caja 117

Member
Ranker said:
Hey guys, Josh here, this is me reading your posts on matchmaking
Click to expand...

After Reach arena ranks, i Dont understand why anyone would want Ranks based on individual performance: they will bait you, steel your kills, betray you, etc , just so they can finished in first place, the game stop from been about wining the game and more about getting the most kill regardless of the game outcome.
 
D

DeadNames

Banned
Holy crap the kids I'm getting paired with are SO BAD.

Also AR and SMG are too strong imo, but of course the morons on waypoint and reddit will just say "xdddd omg ur just mad that the br isn't the be all end all anymore"
 
link1201

link1201

Member
Tawpgun said:
Anyone want a semi pro rank? Ill trade for gold or lower.

This ranking matchmaking system actually does its job for once. I just wanna dong on scrubs but keep getting matched against good people :(
Click to expand...

I like it, close matches get me all pumped up. So far it is working better than I expected.

Ranker said:
Hey guys, Josh here, this is me reading your posts on matchmaking and ranking.



I'm not w/ 343 anymore, so I just have some "outsider" comments I can make.

First, at a match level, the matchmaking looks good. I've seen a lot of really close matches, and heard from you folks that you're having a lot of close ones.

Yeah, you do get some noobs on your teams sometimes, and lose because of it. But this happens randomly to everyone. The other team will get baddies just as often as you do. If it really just is bad luck, it'll wash out as you play more.

Condescending Soapbox: In my experience, just being able to kill better than anyone on your team doesn't make you a winner in a "team" game. Getting the rest of your team to play their best together (no matter how bad that is) is part of that winning skill. Though I agree it's probably impossible to do without voice.


Now, onto ranking. I totally understand the comments about personal performance vs. team performance, and losing more points than it feels you deserve.

It's actually a lot harder than just giving a few more points to the top performers if you want to have a simple ranking system without:

  1. huge and easy to use exploits
  2. encouraging players to compete against their own teammates (stealing kills, etc)

Both of those would have a huge negative impact on the game, and design is often about compromising on a bunch of points. No system is perfect.

Trust me (or don't?) I've tried it. I've tried a ton of different systems on both real players, real data, and simulated data.

I could probably come up with some *really* complex systems that did an OK job at this, but at that point players would have no idea what was going on with the rankings, and lose confidence in them. At least this way, you know players with high ranks have eventually won their way to them.

Also, think of it this way. Imagine you have a team of Pros. Imagine each of them is much better than most of you will ever be (sorry!). But, imagine that part of their main strategy is to feed most of their kills to one player, resulting in him having the best spread and and the rest having a lot of assists. A system too focused on personal performance would end up giving you some really weird rankings where that player is far ahead of the rest of his team, despite them all actually being really close in skill.

My personal feeling on ranking systems is to try and have them fit the game. If this was a more casual BTB with lots of solo folks running around and having little impact on the win, then I like systems that are more personal (like BTB CSR in H4). But I like the team-focus for arena.

I know it sucks when those individual experiences happen, but they will wash out if you truly deserve the higher ranks and play enough games to remove the randomness.

So, anyways, I'm enjoying the posts. It's good stuff. I'll lurk around some more.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. I hope 343 do a bulletin on ranks asap.
 
G

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
VisceralBowl said:
From gaming side:
Click to expand...

tc6KzUv.gif


Well done 343. You've got em.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
DeadNames said:
Holy crap the kids I'm getting paired with are SO BAD.

Also AR and SMG are too strong imo, but of course the morons on waypoint and reddit will just say "xdddd omg ur just mad that the br isn't the be all end all anymore"
Click to expand...

As someone who's not a moron (nor on Waypoint or Reddit), I think they've got a point. Watching competitive Halo 2 matches (including H2A), basically all that gets used is the BR and the power weapons (excepting Ninja). And honestly? That's kind of boring.

The AR is finally, for the first time since CE*, viable. It can work at mid range, and is strong at short range. That's not overpowered, that's just finally having a place in the sandbox. The SMG is strong, yes, but it's also limited to an on-map pickup, and only works at short range unless scoped. They could stand to reduce the number of them on the map, but other than that, I don't think they should change a thing.

*And even then, it was more of a boost to the cloak than a weapon in its own right.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Ranker said:
Hey guys, Josh here, this is me reading your posts on matchmaking and ranking.



I'm not w/ 343 anymore, so I just have some "outsider" comments I can make.

First, at a match level, the matchmaking looks good. I've seen a lot of really close matches, and heard from you folks that you're having a lot of close ones.

Yeah, you do get some noobs on your teams sometimes, and lose because of it. But this happens randomly to everyone. The other team will get baddies just as often as you do. If it really just is bad luck, it'll wash out as you play more.

Condescending Soapbox: In my experience, just being able to kill better than anyone on your team doesn't make you a winner in a "team" game. Getting the rest of your team to play their best together (no matter how bad that is) is part of that winning skill. Though I agree it's probably impossible to do without voice.


Now, onto ranking. I totally understand the comments about personal performance vs. team performance, and losing more points than it feels you deserve.

It's actually a lot harder than just giving a few more points to the top performers if you want to have a simple ranking system without:

  1. huge and easy to use exploits
  2. encouraging players to compete against their own teammates (stealing kills, etc)

Both of those would have a huge negative impact on the game, and design is often about compromising on a bunch of points. No system is perfect.

Trust me (or don't?) I've tried it. I've tried a ton of different systems on both real players, real data, and simulated data.

I could probably come up with some *really* complex systems that did an OK job at this, but at that point players would have no idea what was going on with the rankings, and lose confidence in them. At least this way, you know players with high ranks have eventually won their way to them.

Also, think of it this way. Imagine you have a team of Pros. Imagine each of them is much better than most of you will ever be (sorry!). But, imagine that part of their main strategy is to feed most of their kills to one player, resulting in him having the best spread and and the rest having a lot of assists. A system too focused on personal performance would end up giving you some really weird rankings where that player is far ahead of the rest of his team, despite them all actually being really close in skill.

My personal feeling on ranking systems is to try and have them fit the game. If this was a more casual BTB with lots of solo folks running around and having little impact on the win, then I like systems that are more personal (like BTB CSR in H4). But I like the team-focus for arena.

I know it sucks when those individual experiences happen, but they will wash out if you truly deserve the higher ranks and play enough games to remove the randomness.

So, anyways, I'm enjoying the posts. It's good stuff. I'll lurk around some more.
Click to expand...

Dunno if you're allowed to post it.

But i'm mostly interested in what the metrics are behind the performance increase.

Like what makes it a +23 game when I go +2 and a +3 game when I go +20? Does everyone on the team get the same performance increase?
 
B

btags

Member
Poodlestrike said:
As someone who's not a moron (nor on Waypoint or Reddit), I think they've got a point. Watching competitive Halo 2 matches (including H2A), basically all that gets used is the BR and the power weapons (excepting Ninja). And honestly? That's kind of boring.

The AR is finally, for the first time since CE*, viable. It can work at mid range, and is strong at short range. That's not overpowered, that's just finally having a place in the sandbox. The SMG is strong, yes, but it's also limited to an on-map pickup, and only works at short range unless scoped. They could stand to reduce the number of them on the map, but other than that, I don't think they should change a thing.

*And even then, it was more of a boost to the cloak than a weapon in its own right.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly. I love halo 2 anniversary's multiplayer but most of it is BR and sniper rifle. It feels nice to actually have some options now, although it remains to be seen how covenant/forerunner weapons perform.
 
R

Ranker

Neo Member
Tawpgun said:
Dunno if you're allowed to post it.

But i'm mostly interested in what the metrics are behind the performance increase.

Like what makes it a +23 game when I go +2 and a +3 game when I go +20? Does everyone on the team get the same performance increase?
Click to expand...

Can't go into details, but at the high level, it's about who you beat or lose to. Ideally, the matchmaking will set you up with an even match so the +/- will be consistent. But if you own a bunch of noobs, you won't go up much. On the other hand, beat a good team and go up more.
 
M

Madness

Member
buddha0991 said:
so do you guys want the AR to be completely shit or for it to be good cuz no matter what yall complain
Click to expand...

AR has a role to play. It's overpowered when it goes beyond close to mid range for gunplay and starts bleeding onto mid range and longer. Coupled with the fact with ADS it's spread is tighter, more accurate, and that flinch is there, it's absolutely taking away from BR and DMR even.

The AR is not a skilled weapon to use, it's far too easy to get kills with and I too think it's overpowered how it currently is. It's not about making it shit, but making sure it doesn't detract from the longer range rifles. Also, saying that BR all the time, how pros use it is boring is ridiculous. It takes far more skill to use than the AR with its spray and pray shooting. Pros use BR because they're not casual players who just want to aim in a general direction and hold down trigger and mop up kills. I can accept someone shredding you with an AR up close. What I cant accept is being 60 feet away being peppered by ADS assault rifle shots while your screen is shaking or you're being descoped trying to get them back.
 
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