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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life

RowdyReverb

Member
You need to get banned from matchmaking for 5 minutes every time you quit, and have it get progressively longer as you go.

MCC is so awful. I get in a big team game and over the game half the team quits, thus I keep losing.

Quit bans need to happen.
I vote that a provision be made for people who quit after his/her teammates have abandoned them. It's no fun for either team to sit through a 5v2 match until the time runs out just to avoid a timeout
(ok, it's kind of fun to be on the bigger team)
. Perhaps a "Surrender" vote, like in CS:GO?
 

daedalius

Member
Toggles are good, but I think we've pretty much confirmed that standard Halo and competitive Halo are going to be two very different games, just like in the past. In fact, there's a definite possibility it may be even more distinct of a gap.

Seems like a terrible idea
 

RowdyReverb

Member
To be devils advocate here...you guys aren't exactly revealing what this 11% is part of. You guys said 19,000 people have signed up to be part of the HCFP....but not all 19,000 received surveys, so how many did and of those that did...we can see what the 11% made up.

For example, if you only surveyed something like 1,000 of the 19,000, then 11% = 110 people

It would be nice to know where the 11% is coming from...because the way Holmes' wrote it in his blog...it's a blanket statement, no different than CNN posting a traditional poll of theirs on their site saying 11% of people surveyed said they wont vote for president nominee bob, therefore president nominee bob doesn't stand a chance..... (2,000 people were polled in this CNN survey, sample errors is +/- 5 %)

I even got the surveys and I voted against sprint being in Halo, it's not necessary at all in the long run for the Halo franchise to have sprint.

To go further, I keep seeing the Halo competitive community raiding torches and pitchforks that sprint is going to have toggle option....at the end of the day, I couldn't care less honestly if sprint is in the game. During the survey, I voted against sprint because that was my honest opinion about it based on the question being asked to me.
-snip-
I can't help but point out that you're questioning the validity of a statistic while referencing possibly the most biased sample possible- people angry and vocal about the result. If you samples people raiding torches and pitchforks regarding that result, you'd no doubt get nearly 100% instead of 11%.
 

Computer

Member
If you paid close attention to the 2nd Halo 5 feedback servery it will skip questions based on your previous answers. The first question on sprint was meant to be manipulating. It asked "In Halo I like to sprint" Well I don't feel happy when I sprint and I don't hate to sprint. So I choose the middle option witch is basically undecided. So because of my answer to that question the servery completely skipped the question that 343 used for the 11% number. The question is "You disagreed with this statement "in Halo I like to sprint" Please elaborate below. In that question there is an option for "Halo should not have sprint". That is the answer I would have picked IF I was asked the question. This feedback servery was designed to manipulate numbers no doubt about it. Calling out 343.
 
If you paid close attention to the 2nd Halo 5 feedback servery it will skip questions based on your previous answers. The first question on sprint was meant to be manipulating. It asked "In Halo I like to sprint" Well I don't feel happy when I sprint and I don't hate to sprint. So I choose the middle option witch is basically undecided. So because of my answer to that question the servery completely skipped the question that 343 used for the 11% number. The question is "You disagreed with this statement "in Halo I like to sprint" Please elaborate below. In that question there is an option for "Halo should not have sprint". That is the answer I would have picked IF I was asked the question. This feedback servery was designed to manipulate numbers no doubt about it. Calling out 343.

It was meant to avoid any real controversy. If you can
Mitigate the people who dislike sprint amongst several categories than it makes it seem as though there is only 11% of the fan base that dislikes sprint. I don't believe they were straight up lying as some people suggest, I just think the poll was set up in a way which makes actual numbers hard to gather.
 
If you paid close attention to the 2nd Halo 5 feedback servery it will skip questions based on your previous answers. The first question on sprint was meant to be manipulating. It asked "In Halo I like to sprint" Well I don't feel happy when I sprint and I don't hate to sprint. So I choose the middle option witch is basically undecided. So because of my answer to that question the servery completely skipped the question that 343 used for the 11% number. The question is "You disagreed with this statement "in Halo I like to sprint" Please elaborate below. In that question there is an option for "Halo should not have sprint". That is the answer I would have picked IF I was asked the question. This feedback servery was designed to manipulate numbers no doubt about it. Calling out 343.

Nothing like crying fowl. They probably had survey takers skip the question because 343 assumed you had no opinion on the subject. Same with earlier questions not dealing with sprint doing the same thing Is it poorly designed? Yeah. But it's far from an attempt to fudge the numbers. Dunno who is in charge of creating the surveys, but they could have made the answer selection a little less vague.
I have no opinion on this" would have been better than "Undecided".

It was meant to avoid any real controversy. If you can
Mitigate the people who dislike sprint amongst several categories than it makes it seem as though there is only 11% of the fan base that dislikes sprint. I don't believe they were straight up lying as some people suggest, I just think the poll was set up in a way which makes actual numbers hard to gather.

exactly

Is Survey still under NDA? Might want to be careful, "calling out 343," if the Survey is still under NDA.

Yeah, a screenshot of the actual survey is just asking for an NDA violation....
 
Keep in mind the same person that was speaking in this article is the same guy that completely dismissed 3 separate polls created by 3 entirely separate and unique hardcore Halo sites that all favored no sprint.
 
Were other questions asked in the same manner? If so point invalid. If not point valid.

They were, IIRC. If you answered anything middling (basically anything that's not I love it or I hate it) you would skip the follow up/going into detail questions.

#sprintgate

-bashes my head into the desk-

Keep in mind the same person that was speaking in this article is the same guy that completely dismissed 3 separate polls created by 3 entirely separate and unique hardcore Halo sites that all favored no sprint.

You're still here?
 

daedalius

Member
Keep in mind the same person that was speaking in this article is the same guy that completely dismissed 3 separate polls created by 3 entirely separate and unique hardcore Halo sites that all favored no sprint.

Oh man what a jerk!

3 totally separate polls!

Josh is such a jerk for not listening to these polls, they are the heart of the communiderp!

Lets keep talking about sprint guys! Its working!

Sorry I don't like consistent mediocrity in my Halo games and more spins than wheel of fortune. I'll sit back as Halo continues to nose dive. Maybe 343 will prove me wrong by shipping a game this year that is actually finished and has more features than games created in 2007. Who knows, maybe they will be able to keep a population over 20k past 3 months. I won't be negative anymore. Carry on.

That went better than I could have possibly imagined. Did I single handedly stop ProvenDerpy from future posts? Pack it up boys, there is nothing left to achieve here.
 
Sorry I don't like consistent mediocrity in my Halo games and more spins than wheel of fortune. I'll sit back as Halo continues to nose dive. Maybe 343 will prove me wrong by shipping a game this year that is actually finished and has more features than games created in 2007. Who knows, maybe they will be able to keep a population over 20k past 3 months. I won't be negative anymore. Carry on.
 

HTupolev

Member
There is a Microsoft statistician, who is either weeping or twirling their mustache about now.

I like to think it's the latter, because I've known some statisticians with moderately supervillainous mustaches.
 

CyReN

Member
Oh man what a jerk!

3 totally separate polls!

Josh is such a jerk for not listening to these polls, they are the heart of the communiderp!

Lets keep talking about sprint guys! Its working!

That went better than I could have possibly imagined. Did I single handedly stop ProvenDerpy from future posts? Pack it up boys, there is nothing left to achieve here.

I think most pretty much accepted sprint was in the game, I think the 11% remark on top of his previous statement made it a lot of worse than it had to be.

It's w/e, just comical at this point.
 
I think most pretty much accepted sprint was in the game, I think the 11% remark on top of his previous statement made it a lot of worse than it had to be.

It's w/e, just comical at this point.

While I agree, I feel that a community adamantly against sprint, having a poll over sprint, is far from an accurate reading. Community standing or not.
 

Booshka

Member
#sprintgate

Keep in mind the same person that was speaking in this article is the same guy that completely dismissed 3 separate polls created by 3 entirely separate and unique hardcore Halo sites that all favored no sprint.

I think most pretty much accepted sprint was in the game, I think the 11% remark on top of his previous statement made it a lot of worse than it had to be.

It's w/e, just comical at this point.

#11%gate
 

Ominym

Banned
I think most pretty much accepted sprint was in the game, I think the 11% remark on top of his previous statement made it a lot of worse than it had to be.

It's w/e, just comical at this point.

I agree the tone could've been better with how they said it. I don't think anyone should have even been considering that this survey would remove sprint (or that anything would for that matter). More so that people have an issue with the comprehensiveness of the participant pool, and the vindictive "I told ya' everyone wanted sprint!" type attitude in addition to it.

Oh well, it's done and over with. I do however wish 343i would put out the raw data. Never going to happen, but it'd be neat to see.
 
j just want to get a refund on my Xbox and mcc. Game doesn't work and was my reason for buying the console. Odst and relic aren't worth 3 months of a broken game with a low population + a $400 console.
 

Zel3

Member
j just want to get a refund on my Xbox and mcc. Game doesn't work and was my reason for buying the console. Odst and relic aren't worth 3 months of a broken game with a low population + a $400 console.

I managed to get a refund on my digital MCC purchase. No refund on the XBOX ONE, totally fucked there. :p

I also bought a 12 month gold subscription, but lesson learned I suppose.
 
Has the 11% considered for a moment that maybe, just maybe....they are the minority?

I never thought I'd enjoy Sprint in a Halo game, but Halo 5 had a great implementation of Sprint within the games feature set. Hence, my opinion changed. Go figure. :)
 

Leyasu

Banned
I like sprint... Haters be damned.

Anyway, I saw all I needed to see. I'm in day one, and will take a few days off of work to play. I will also inform my friends who were waiting on confirmation of the same thing.

Well done 343. Now just keep the map packs free, and charge for armour and weapon skins instead.

I'm one smiling motherfucker after reading that.
 

jem0208

Member
Has the 11% considered for a moment that maybe, just maybe....they are the minority?

I never thought I'd enjoy Sprint in a Halo game, but Halo 5 had a great implementation of Sprint within the games feature set. Hence, my opinion changed. Go figure. :)
That couldn't possibly be true though. Clearly 343 are lying and are skewing the results!
 
15 minutes trying to get a game in BTB, CE or Halo 3. Derp, BTB they are loading in...ooooh I'm session leader...lets see how this cluster flick goes...
 

Glass

Member
It seems the whole 11% thing is getting so much attention, getting overlooked is the fact that they're upping the base movement speed and the top sprint speed is getting reduced. On top of not getting your shields back. For those that weren't a fan of sprint but acknowledged it's the reality of FPS' in 2015 and can't be removed out right, that is exactly what was asked for, to the letter.

People will then say why nerf it so much, just get rid of it. Maybe it'll be like a placebo effect for those who expect it in a game - there's a sprint button, pressing it will start the running animation, swinging your weapon wildly, even if its underpowered. Whilst people who don't like it won't feel the need to sprint around the map all the time because they've balanced it just about right so it's not necessary for most situations.

That's how I'm choosing to look at it for now anyway. There's just so much feedback and changes happening I can't help but feel optimistic, especially after I enjoyed the beta in the first place.
 
15 minutes trying to get a game in BTB, CE or Halo 3. Derp, BTB they are loading in...ooooh I'm session leader...lets see how this cluster flick goes...

We could have played Avalanche but oh no, idiots voted for Exile on Halo 4. Team slayer. Then some bright light by the gamertag "B REAL85" on our team (red) decided to detach the turret and betray everyone else. I finally got the option to boot him. We lost.

It taks so FUCKING LONG to get into a match, and by the time you do, this crap happens. I'm sure glad I have SO MANY friends online who will be ABLE to just play custom games with me. I'll set up a grifball match on Foundry. Yeah, getting right on that.
 
It seems the whole 11% thing is getting so much attention, getting overlooked is the fact that they're upping the base movement speed and the top sprint speed is getting reduced. On top of not getting your shields back. For those that weren't a fan of sprint but acknowledged it's the reality of FPS' in 2015 and can't be removed out right, that is exactly what was asked for, to the letter.

People will then say why nerf it so much, just get rid of it. Maybe it'll be like a placebo effect for those who expect it in a game - there's a sprint button, pressing it will start the running animation, swinging your weapon wildly, even if its underpowered. Whilst people who don't like it won't feel the need to sprint around the map all the time because they've balanced it just about right so it's not necessary for most situations.

That's how I'm choosing to look at it for now anyway.
Currently feeling the same.
 

Nebula

Member
Nice to see them make changes that seem to be leaning in the right direction. Beta wasn't bad either so hearing that it might be getting better is a good sign.

I'll wait for reviews on release though. Maybe some streams as well, oh and some YouTube videos. Can't be to cautious nowadays.
 

jem0208

Member
Nice to see them make changes that seem to be leaning in the right direction. Beta wasn't bad either so hearing that it might be getting better is a good sign.

I'll wait for reviews on release though. Maybe some streams as well, oh and some YouTube videos. Can't be to cautious nowadays.
I thought you sold your Xbox?
 

-Ryn

Banned
Nice to see them make changes that seem to be leaning in the right direction. Beta wasn't bad either so hearing that it might be getting better is a good sign.

I'll wait for reviews on release though. Maybe some streams as well, oh and some YouTube videos. Can't be to cautious nowadays.
Does this mean... :D

I thought you sold your Xbox?
Just when ya think you're out...
 
Given the entire beta was arena, no vehicles, ranking and HCS groundwork I would have thought the 11% could get on board with a new game and set of mechanics. H5 plays fucking great, if you can't see perhaps it's time for fresh blood?

Look at what the studio has done for hires, events, beta, invitees to the studio, sprint pro/ex pro interaction etc etc.

I'll bite my lip before I say something I'll regret. MCC being fucked is something else entirely.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Given the entire beta was arena, no vehicles, ranking and HCS groundwork I would have thought the 11% could get on board with a new game and set of mechanics. H5 plays fucking great, if you can't see perhaps it's time for fresh blood?

Look at what the studio has done for hires, events, beta, invitees to the studio, sprint pro/ex pro interaction etc etc.

I'll bite my lip before I say something I'll regret. MCC being fucked is something else entirely.

Halo 5 was fucking awesome. I can't wait to have that game on my HDD.
 

Nebula

Member
I thought you sold your Xbox?

My deal fell through so I still have it for now. Either way my brother still has one so I can potentially play Halo 5 if I enjoy the end product. Chances are I'll have mine sold by then though. MCC is sold though.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Those last pages were like a flashback to 2008 after the bank bust. "We are the 11%, and we are underrepresented!"
 

TTUVAPOR

Banned
I can't help but point out that you're questioning the validity of a statistic while referencing possibly the most biased sample possible- people angry and vocal about the result. If you samples people raiding torches and pitchforks regarding that result, you'd no doubt get nearly 100% instead of 11%.

I have no idea how to understand what you just wrote.

Sorry.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Toggles are good, but I think we've pretty much confirmed that standard Halo and competitive Halo are going to be two very different games, just like in the past. In fact, there's a definite possibility it may be even more distinct of a gap.

Considering how much effort 343's been putting into the competitive scene on its own, I'm not so certain. Unless MLG comes back and says "screw the vanilla game we're making no sprint standard", seems like the devs will be deciding the tournament settings themselves and most people will probably hew closer to that.

I have no idea how to understand what you just wrote.

Sorry.

In any sort of survey there's selection bias, in that you're more likely to get extreme results rather than nuanced feedback because it's the people at extremes who are more likely to respond to the survey.

Even if you give people a set of responses and/or a scale (1-5, agree to strongly disagree sort of stuff) it's almost pointless at capturing nuance. Wikipedia did a study on its article feedback tools and found that it was essentially meaningless to have a 1-5 rating for articles because people either said "this page sucks" and gave one star, or said it was great and gave five.

If there really was some huge anti-sprint contingent, you would expect that number to be a lot higher, because absolutism regarding sprint is pretty much mostly what gets talked about.
 

Computer

Member
I don't mind that sprint is in Halo 5. I had fun playing. I am curious about the speed percentage difference between base speed and full on running.
 
Considering how much effort 343's been putting into the competitive scene on its own, I'm not so certain. Unless MLG comes back and says "screw the vanilla game we're making no sprint standard", seems like the devs will be deciding the tournament settings themselves and most people will probably hew closer to that.

Yeah, that will be nice. I remember watching Reach MLG and it honestly not being that engaging because it was so different from the game I knew from MM (mostly in terms of maps, but the settings were different, too). That gap is always going to be there since you make a game to sell to the Randy Randalls of the world to some degree, but Halo 5 looks to be a reasonable compromise compared to Reach and 4.

Poor Tashi, trying to get HCS going with the MCC of all things. Talk about an uphill struggle.
 

TTUVAPOR

Banned
Considering how much effort 343's been putting into the competitive scene on its own, I'm not so certain. Unless MLG comes back and says "screw the vanilla game we're making no sprint standard", seems like the devs will be deciding the tournament settings themselves and most people will probably hew closer to that.



In any sort of survey there's selection bias, in that you're more likely to get extreme results rather than nuanced feedback because it's the people at extremes who are more likely to respond to the survey.

Even if you give people a set of responses and/or a scale (1-5, agree to strongly disagree sort of stuff) it's almost pointless at capturing nuance. Wikipedia did a study on its article feedback tools and found that it was essentially meaningless to have a 1-5 rating for articles because people either said "this page sucks" and gave one star, or said it was great and gave five.

If there really was some huge anti-sprint contingent, you would expect that number to be a lot higher, because absolutism regarding sprint is pretty much mostly what gets talked about.

Thing is, the 11% is of how many people surveyed?

I understand that a scale of 1 to 5 is usually bad for getting a straight black and white answer on something.

Here's a tweet yesterday from Holmes: https://twitter.com/JoshingtonState/with_replies
Josh Holmes @JoshingtonState
@Jawshe_XBL I thought it was pretty simple. “In Halo I like to sprint”; agree/disagree on 5 point scale. 11% includes both disagree picks.

I remember the question too when I took the survey. There were five options...first two were for sprint, middle was don't care, and last two were against sprint. So I understand where he's getting "includes both disagree picks", but we still don't know how many people were surveyed.

We all know it's not 19,000 people surveyed...it was far less than that.

If it was say...1000 people surveyed, then 11% would equal 110 people who voted for one of the two disagree picks.

If 19,000 people were surveyed (which they weren't) then 11% would equal 2090 people voting for one of the two disagree picks.

All things aside though...their sample size in my opinion isn't large enough to be making these types of interpretations.

Yeah, that will be nice. I remember watching Reach MLG and it honestly not being that engaging because it was so different from the game I knew from MM (mostly in terms of maps, but the settings were different, too). That gap is always going to be there since you make a game to sell to the Randy Randalls of the world to some degree, but Halo 5 looks to be a reasonable compromise compared to Reach and 4.

Poor Tashi, trying to get HCS going with the MCC of all things. Talk about an uphill struggle.

I posted over in beyond's forums...and I'll say it here...sprint is the least of everyone's worries when it comes to HCS. There is this fear that if HCS doesn't include sprint and default playlists obviously do...that it will somehow change the entire scope of the game and create a split in the community...I cannot believe that at all.

Things like starting weapons, weapons on map, player damage, player gravity, power weapon placement, powerup placement, etc....if all of that is drastically different from vanilla...then that's what will create the split. You're not going to have players going into HCS saying..."screw this im not playing without sprint."
 

Impala26

Member
I don't mind that sprint is in Halo 5. I had fun playing. I am curious about the speed percentage difference between base speed and full on running.

Yeah same here actually. I actually would've been fine had they simply left sprint untouched and upped the base movement speed to be honest. Halo 5 sprint was pretty gimped and balanced as it was already what with it resetting the shield recharge delay AND damage knocking you out of sprint before attaining top speed (~1-2 seconds).

Also, given these toggle options would that mean that if sprint were toggled off both Charge and Slide would be impossible, seeing as they were rooted to being performed at max speed?

Yeah, that will be nice. I remember watching Reach MLG and it honestly not being that engaging because it was so different from the game I knew from MM (mostly in terms of maps, but the settings were different, too). That gap is always going to be there since you make a game to sell to the Randy Randalls of the world to some degree, but Halo 5 looks to be a reasonable compromise compared to Reach and 4.

For shits 'n giggles I occasionally watch randos play Reach on Twitch and just last week I noticed that within the MLG playlist they played on a DIFFERENT forged version of Sanctuary than the one that was shipped with the game. Like... the hell? Was it that the Bungie-made Forge Sanctuary had the open cliff side or...? Whatever the case, even though I sometimes wish to play competitively, I found I couldn't ever really get into MLG Reach simply because it all looked like that same Forerunner grey to me; like with the maps used they never even attempted to use the bits of actual terrain on the Forge World.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Confirmation that the majority of people don't mind sprint just like what we were told before.

Modifications so sprint can be removed in custom games.

Increased base movement speed and reduced sprint speed.

Still arguing about sprint and the methods of an online survey.





Come on, can't we move on and start arguing about motion tracker? I know funk will be happier.
 

Haruko

Member
For shits 'n giggles I occasionally watch randos play Reach on Twitch and just last week I noticed that within the MLG playlist they played on a DIFFERENT forged version of Sanctuary than the one that was shipped with the game. Like... the hell? Was it that the Bungie-made Forge Sanctuary had the open cliff side or...? Whatever the case, even though I sometimes wish to play competitively, I found I couldn't ever really get into MLG Reach simply because it all looked like that same Forerunner grey to me--like with the maps used they even attempted to use the bits of actual terrain on the Forge World.

IIRC, the MLG forged version of Sanctuary modified some of the sight lines to match the OG H2 map more, and also reduced frame rate issues
 
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