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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life

jem0208

Member
Replaying H4's campaign; that game is so gorgeous. I can't imagine what H5's campaign will look like. I wonder if they'll stick with 60fps in campaign mode or drop it to 30 in favor of prettier visuals.
I would be fine with them dropping it to 30 if they apply some good motion blur. Playground Games' Horizon 2 feels amazing even at 30 because of some seriously good motion blur.

60 guys, 60. Stop w/ the 30fps nonsense

But I want the campaign to look perty!

Honestly as long as it's rock solid 30 I'm fine with it.

Also, massive maps are far easier at 30.
 

Madness

Member
Don't know how you can think they'll hit 60fps with this underpowered box and still give us industry leading visuals in the campaign.

If Naughty Dog is aiming for only 30FPS for Uncharted 4 after all their talk about 60FPS, I'm pretty sure 343 will do the same.

I agree 60FPS should be the end goal, especially for for multi-player, but I'm not going to cry if they decide to the make the campaign only 30fps locked.
 

AlStrong

Member
Gameplay > Pretty visuals/graphics

H4 is looking good, no question, but I'd like them to focus on fun missions.

Yeah.... 60fps/~16ms is going to have an impact on what they can do on the CPU-side in-game...

----

30Hz optional lock with higher res would be neat (for SP), though that would have implications to esram management unless they're already accounting for it with a dynamic scaling (e.g. turn off dynamic scaling, stick to one higher res with the 30Hz option).
 
Replaying H4's campaign; that game is so gorgeous. I can't imagine what H5's campaign will look like. I wonder if they'll stick with 60fps in campaign mode or drop it to 30 in favor of prettier visuals.

Me too, and it's really surprising how good most parts look. All the glowy Forerunner stuff looks really cool, even if it deviates stylistically from the original games.

Some of the visual design is pretty bad from a design standpoint though, even at 1080p I'm having a hard time telling Knight classes apart, or when they're vulnerable to a headshot.
 

jem0208

Member
Me too, and it's really surprising how good most parts look. All the glowy Forerunner stuff looks really cool, even if it deviates stylistically from the original games.

Some of the visual design is pretty bad from a design standpoint though, even at 1080p I'm having a hard time telling Knight classes apart, or when they're vulnerable to a headshot.


Talking about Forerunner Tron lines, I just had a match on Monolith. That map is gorgeous. Seriously gorgeous. It's quite clean and the use of red and blue Tron lines to establish which base is which is a great idea. It also makes it very easy to orientate yourself after spawning. The combination of the lines with the snow is fantastic. The sky box is also very good.

halo-4-majestic-map-pack-monolith.jpg


Definitely up there as one of the best looking Halo maps imo. It also plays pretty well.

Heh, IGN rated it as 104th in map ranking. That certainly isn't true.

That list was a load of rubbish, kinda feels like they just chucked whatever down randomly.
 

-Ryn

Banned
Are you guys being for real right now? The Warthog needs a buff not another way to make it irrelevant.
Give the Warthog a bit of a health buff and put back the vehicle health from CE. If super amazing vehicle mode spectacular is really gonna actually totally happen then infantry needs ways to counter vehicles without power weapons.

Spartan Charge into side of vehicle to send it flying.
Slide to dodge under certain vehicles (may not work depending on the terrain).
Ground Pound will do decent damage if it's a direct hit and send out a shockwave that knocks vehicles away if you hit to the side or something.

Plus come on it'd be really cool
and fun
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I would be fine with them dropping it to 30 if they apply some good motion blur. Playground Games' Horizon 2 feels amazing even at 30 because of some seriously good motion blur.



But I want the campaign to look perty!

Honestly as long as it's rock solid 30 I'm fine with it.

Also, massive maps are far easier at 30.


While I would probably be fine with the campaign at 30, I think it's got to be 60 as long as the multiplayer is at 60. Otherwise switching between the two would probably feel pretty poor, and it would exaggerate the "chugging" feeling of the campaign.
 

jem0208

Member
While I would probably be fine with the campaign at 30, I think it's got to be 60 as long as the multiplayer is at 60. Otherwise switching between the two would probably feel pretty poor, and it would exaggerate the "chugging" feeling of the campaign.
Initially I think it would feel weird but I don't think it would take long to get used to it.

Didn't Killzone Shadowfall run at 30 in campaign and 60 in multiplayer? I never played it myself but I never saw many complaints.
 

Impala26

Member
Talking about Forerunner Tron lines, I just had a match on Monolith. That map is gorgeous. Seriously gorgeous. It's quite clean and the use of red and blue Tron lines to establish which base is which is a great idea. It also makes it very easy to orientate yourself after spawning. The combination of the lines with the snow is fantastic. The sky box is also very good.

halo-4-majestic-map-pack-monolith.jpg


Definitely up there as one of the best looking Halo maps imo. It also plays pretty well.

Heh, IGN rated it as 104th in map ranking. That certainly isn't true.

That list was a load of rubbish, kinda feels like they just chuckled whatever down randomly.

A sorely underappreciated Halo 4 map to be sure.
Plays fantastic with SWAT and Oddball.
 

HTupolev

Member
Talking about Forerunner Tron lines, I just had a match on Monolith. That map is gorgeous. Seriously gorgeous. It's quite clean
No.

Monolith is the epitome of Halo 4's excessive spamming of middle-frequency detail, and of its garish lighting. It looks terrible outside of an occasional well-framed screenshot, and although it can be navigated, dynamic objects don't stand out well on it.

Didn't Killzone Shadowfall run at 30 in campaign and 60 in multiplayer? I never played it myself but I never saw many complaints.
The framerate is unlocked in both by default settings, although they later patched in a 30fps cap for campaign (which is pretty close to being a 30fps lock, the game almost never has a >33ms frame).

Multiplayer tends to run more smoothly than campaign, although in big team games you can still get lots of choppiness.

The BIG controversy over KZSF isn't over framerate, but the multiplayer's resolution. Plenty of developers have been using temporal reprojection for AA; take the old 1080p frame, reproject it onto the new one, now you have (a moderately unstable) 2xAA for cheap. Reach was of course using a primitive version of this.
In KZSF MP's case, they're rendering the source frames at only 960x1080, and then using the new frame along with reprojected old frames to fill a 1920x1080 buffer. It looks like 1080p when nothing is in motion, but can experience artifacts and general iffyness when there's movement. Normally this wouldn't be a controversial issue, except that GG had claimed that the game was "native 1080p", which sparked the firestorm over what the hell the definition of "native resolution" is.
 
Talking about Forerunner Tron lines, I just had a match on Monolith. That map is gorgeous. Seriously gorgeous. It's quite clean and the use of red and blue Tron lines to establish which base is which is a great idea. It also makes it very easy to orientate yourself after spawning. The combination of the lines with the snow is fantastic. The sky box is also very good.

halo-4-majestic-map-pack-monolith.jpg


Definitely up there as one of the best looking Halo maps imo. It also plays pretty well.

Heh, IGN rated it as 104th in map ranking. That certainly isn't true.

That list was a load of rubbish, kinda feels like they just chucked whatever down randomly.
I agree this map is fantastic, it players really well.
 
Hey guys, off topic, but I know there are quite a few fan site owners around here who perhaps had experience with similiar issues.. Long story short: I help run Jurassicworld.org. Today our facebook page was mistakenly(?) merged into the official one without warning or authorization. Now we're kinda at a loss on how best to resolve this, and I worry this may be a time sensitive issue.

Anyone know who we can call or contact that perhaps isn't immediately obvious? Also, does anyone know what may happen next? Has something like this happened before? What type of resistance will we meet with this?
 

jem0208

Member
No.

Monolith is the epitome of Halo 4's excessive spamming of middle-frequency detail, and of its garish lighting. It looks terrible outside of an occasional well-framed screenshot, and although it can be navigated, dynamic objects don't stand out well on it.

I disagree. I've found it extremely easy to pick out targets from across the map.

The lighting is great, can't see how you find it garish (that picture isn't a particularly good example because it looks a bit different in game). The reason I say it's clean is because the geometry is all very sharp and clear cut instead of the over detailed nonsense you get in some maps. Other players also stand out very well against the grey colour.

The only issue I have with the cleanness is the floating snow, yet that hardly gets in the way and has no effect on target acquisition .

I'm not sure what you mean by middle frequency detail.


Overall though I think it's a gorgeous map.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Me too, and it's really surprising how good most parts look. All the glowy Forerunner stuff looks really cool, even if it deviates stylistically from the original games.

Some of the visual design is pretty bad from a design standpoint though, even at 1080p I'm having a hard time telling Knight classes apart, or when they're vulnerable to a headshot.
I've noticed this too. Knights are some of the least satisfying enemies to combat in the franchise. They are like the flood forms in that you get barely a hint of what kind of damage you're doing to them, but their behavior is less clear as well. It would be cool if doing damage caused chunks of their bulky armor to fall off with the helmet being the last bit, leaving them vulnerable to a headshot. The armor could even dissolve into that glowing fairy dust they seem to excrete to make it more clear what's happening.


Talking about Forerunner Tron lines, I just had a match on Monolith. That map is gorgeous. Seriously gorgeous. It's quite clean and the use of red and blue Tron lines to establish which base is which is a great idea. It also makes it very easy to orientate yourself after spawning. The combination of the lines with the snow is fantastic. The sky box is also very good.

Definitely up there as one of the best looking Halo maps imo. It also plays pretty well.

Heh, IGN rated it as 104th in map ranking. That certainly isn't true.

That list was a load of rubbish, kinda feels like they just chucked whatever down randomly.
Man, I saw this map in BTB matchmaking, but voted against it in favor of CE Timberland. It was the right call, but I'd like to see some of the H4 DLC maps I never experienced. Maybe after the big CU comes out, we'll have another MCC throw down and can check some of them out. I guess I could play the H4 playlist, but I imagine the same maps will get picked every time.
 

jem0208

Member
Man, I saw this map in BTB matchmaking, but voted against it in favor of CE Timberland. It was the right call, but I'd like to see some of the H4 DLC maps I never experienced. Maybe after the big CU comes out, we'll have another MCC throw down and can check some of them out. I guess I could play the H4 playlist, but I imagine the same maps will get picked every time.
I don't think you would have seen it in BTB, it's a small 4v4 arena map. Then again this is the MCC we're talking about.

The Halo 4 playlist seems to be actually very good in terms of variety. I've played pretty much every map at least once and I've played a bunch of different modes. It's mostly Team slayer but there is a nice variety. Voters seen to be pretty good on 4' playlist.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
My issue with the 343 Forerunner aesthetic isn't the Tron lines (although they could probably not be so scared of flat, less-featured surfaces) but rather how they removed a lot of the etched or inset patterns that were a common motif. In this way I think H2A does a much better job merging the two aesthetics.

Bungie's halo 3-era Forerunner stuff always struck me as a bit too baroque.
 
The BTB maps in Halo 4 are terrible. I thought they did a fine job with the smaller maps, but the only standout BTB map was Exile, and even then, the Gauss cannon ruined it. And also, hopefully that stupid Mantis doesn't make a return, it added nothing to the sandbox.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
I don't think you would have seen it in BTB, it's a small 4v4 arena map. Then again this is the MCC we're talking about.

The Halo 4 playlist seems to be actually very good in terms of variety. I've played pretty much every map at least once and I've played a bunch of different modes. It's mostly Team slayer but there is a nice variety. Voters seen to be pretty good on 4' playlist.
Oh you're right, it was in SWAT. My mistake. Yeah, I'm playing the H4 playlist right now. Actually surprised that Haven isn't getting picked every game. I've gotten Pitfall and Landfall so far
 

Mistel

Banned
Bungie's halo 3-era Forerunner stuff always struck me as a bit too baroque.
To me that's more of the direction that I expected them to go with large massing of the forerunner architecture, giving it visual expressiveness via its bulk. Like with avalanche for example which also has contrast going for it.
 
The BTB maps in Halo 4 are terrible. I thought they did a fine job with the smaller maps, but the only standout BTB map was Exile, and even then, the Gauss cannon ruined it. And also, hopefully that stupid Mantis doesn't make a return, it added nothing to the sandbox.

I liked the idea of the Mantis (big mechs are cool), but I agree that ultimately it didn't really fit in. I think a more fragile gunship would be a better fit.
 

TTUVAPOR

Banned
People are starting to realize that CE is just the best experience in MCC.

I wonder why that is....

EDIT: By the way, I don't doubt that many people are experiencing Halo CE multiplayer for the very first time. Some of them probably even owned Halo CE back on the original Xbox but never played multiplayer because they didn't have any friends to split screen with or system-link with. Likewise, with people who got their first Halo start with Halo 2 and beyond...Halo CE multiplayer to them was completely extinct...in otherwords, never existed.

Now that it's available on Xbox Live (I still am amazed by the fact we can play HCE via Xbox Live now), everyone can experience the purest form of Halo and see exactly where the series started and what it has become today.

I wish they would re-boot Call of Duty 1 and put that on Xbox One, like releases a Call of Duty Legacy game featuring COD1, COD2, COD3 and COD4...and see how COD 1 multiplayer was like before the perks, kill streaks, death streaks, UAVs, zero recoil weapons, no sprint, etc.

But hey, COD1 still had aim down the sights and it was an awesome game!
 
I can't for the life of me imagine people calling H5G2: Guarder Harder "Guardians 2" as a shorthand or anything. My immediate thought process is that they are trying to evoke the Modern Warfare thing and basically not have people call it "Halo" anymore except with generalizations.

Oh, you know what's going to be even more satisfying than ground-pounding vehicles? Seeing someone charging up a groundpound while you're in a tank / gauss hog and blowing them out of the sky.
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Combat Evolved 2.
It's the contingency plan if H5 falls short of expectations.
CE2 for classic Halo, Guardians for new Halo. Two different teams
(one team being advised by a select few HaloGAF people).
Done.

s
poile
r

EDIT:
Any attempt to create an actual BTB experience is just going to wind up Ragnaroking.
Ragnarok > Valhalla

H4 Legendary settings BTB infantry combat > H3 BTB infantry combat
 

HTupolev

Member
The BTB maps in Halo 4 are terrible. I thought they did a fine job with the smaller maps
Some of them are okay, but the plague of jumbled design with obnoxious line-of-sight got to a lot of the small maps as well.

i.e. Abandon

but the only standout BTB map was Exile
Exile is only "standout" because it's serviceable. And to some degree, for the same reasons that people find Meltdown okay: It's trying to avoid having to be a BTB map, with lots of focus on small scale infantry face-offs in a couple major spots.

Halo 4's unmitigated high-aim-assist hitscan utility weapons are horrible for large maps that want to actually use their bigness, and the plasma pistol spawns (among other things) cause vehicular combat to be very clumsy. And so, to be fair to the map designers, they didn't really have the opportunity to make truly great BTB maps in the first place. Any attempt to create an actual BTB experience is just going to wind up Ragnaroking.
 
Ragnarok > Valhalla

H4 Legendary settings BTB infantry combat > H3 BTB infantry combat

Another point we agree on. Also I like the Mantis, especially with teams that know how to use it. IMO, none of the vehicles are insanely hard to take down. I'm an infantry guy and I love taking a vehicle away from the other team, one of the best aspects of any Halo game.
 

Akai__

Member
EDIT:
Ragnarok < Valhalla

H4 Legendary settings BTB infantry combat < H3 BTB infantry combat

Fixed that for you. It's not even close, at least not in my opinion.

H3 BR is perfect in BTB, because it actually doesn't hit from 300 miles away, where as the H4 DMR (and BR) can easily kill across the map. Also, H4 BTB couldn't be any more boring with vehicle health, terrible maps and amount of vehicles.
 

HTupolev

Member
Ragnarok > Valhalla

H4 Legendary settings BTB infantry combat > H3 BTB infantry combat
Every time I've played Ragnarok, map flow has been atrocious. Locks down way too hard due to the utility weapon design, tons of annoying back-and-forth at a few hardpoints which by themselves make for fairly bland encounters.

It's terrible.

Hell, Valhalla even looks a lot better.
 

-Ryn

Banned
Combat Evolved 2.
It's the contingency plan if H5 falls short of expectations.
CE2 for classic Halo, Guardians for new Halo. Two different teams
(one team being advised by a select few HaloGAF people).
Done.

s
poile
r
I eagerly wait

Ragnarok > Valhalla

H4 Legendary settings BTB infantry combat > H3 BTB infantry combat
But... H4's Vehicle sandbox is poop...

Another point we agree on. Also I like the Mantis, especially with teams that know how to use it. IMO, none of the vehicles are insanely hard to take down. I'm an infantry guy and I love taking a vehicle away from the other team, one of the best aspects of any Halo game.
Mantis is boring
stomping and tea bagging are its only redeemable qualities/spoiler]

Bring in the Prototype suit. That could already function really well within H5's sandbox (with some minor tweaks).

Ragnarok looks like it has a filter that drained all of the color and life out of it.
 
I eagerly wait


But... H4's Vehicle sandbox is poop...


Mantis is boring
stomping and tea bagging are its only redeemable qualities/spoiler]

Bring in the Prototype suit. That could already function really well within H5's sandbox (with some minor tweaks).


Ragnarok looks like it has a filter that drained all of the color and life out of it.
The Prototype suit would just draw more Advanced Warfare bullshit.
 
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