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Halo |OT 24| In Before the Locke

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I know this will probably get some flack but the MCC is genuinely fun to play now. Most games I get are smooth, matchmaking is pretty quick, skill matching actually works (in the ranked playlists at least), and now they're putting out a playlist update that makes AR/SMG starts far less likely to happen and objective much more likely.


MCC can be fun to play but there's a lengthy list of ifs, buts, caveats and conditions attached to any enjoyment to be had. Last Friday me and a friend played for hours in BTB and it reminded me why I fell in love with Halo multi; the search times were reasonable, we happened upon good gametypes successively and the majority of games had satisfactory networking (I have a theory that the dedi's are prioritised for BTB). However, that Friday session came after a few midweek sessions that pushed not just mine but two others I play with's tolerance to the limit. Several two hour + sessions just feeling like wasted time between the long search times, AR starts, lag, bad maps and bad gametypes; the sort of experience that cumulatively leaves you questioning why you bother to play Halo at all.

With Halo 5 releasing in October we now know that MCC is over half way through its lifespan as the current Halo. It's crashingly disappointing to consider that, 6 months into its 11 month primacy, it's already into the Autumn of its cycle and we're just moving into a position where the maps are configured as they should be and ranks may possibly be rolled out in the next 8 weeks (ranking has been coming 'soon' for the last six months according to the playlist blurbs). Upon its announcement at E3 many posters on here opined that the game would live and die by its playlist settings. A thoughtfully curated 'best of' experience crafted by people who had lived and breathed each game in their respective glory years? Or, a playlist approach that indiscriminately plopped any old map with default gametypes into MM, utterly unmindful of the three years of matchmaking data that Halo 2 and 3 had accumulated? Unfortunately the latter approach was adopted and as a result, reliving frustrations from a decade ago is a regular trial whilst trying to enjoy game time.

Where, one must ask, is the vision for MCC's playlists? Where is the community knowledge reflected in the decisions of the people in charge of this collection? If you so insistently rebuff the now cross-generational call for a custom games browser and cling philosophically to a matchmaking paradigm from 2004 then you have a duty to shape those playlists to the preferential trends of players and yes, the general consensuses of community forums. I see broad agreement that CTF on The Pit, Ball on Lockout, Slayer on Narrows and One Bomb on Headlong are premier experiences; I see similar agreement that Isolation, Orbital, Assembly, Epitaph and Gemini, to name a few, are poor to mediocre maps. I even see the creators of Halo 2, the anniversary of which made for much of the fanfare surrounding MCC, openly profess that SMG starts were and are a mistake and should not happen. Why, then, do I see Isolation, Orbital, Highground, Epitaph and Assembly appear almost every voting round in the H3 playlist, often as a pairing and even more often joined to an AR start? Why are SMG starts so prevalent in the H2 playlist? These experiences were gruelling in 2004/7; in 2015, the post-loadout age, AR starts are a bizarre anachronism that inspire the apathy of the AFK'er and quite literally ruin the experience in 10-20 minute increments. Sure, the odd poster will confess a rare appreciation for one of the aforementioned bad maps but they are an outlier, which is what their appearance in MCC MM should be - not removed for varieties sake but with a low weighting to allow the proven fan favourite's to shine and prosper.

Yes the MCC provides opportunities for fun now that MM is largely up and running. That is testament to the longevity of Bungie's masterpieces. It is in spite of 343's involvement. Seeing as they were releasing games that were already made they were charged with three imperatives to justify the release:

1) Improve the resolution and double the frame rate of each game

2) Provide a cohesive lobby system that allowed the player to seamlessly switch between the games and matchmake without problems

3) Curate the playlists in a manner which took into account years of matchmaking data and acknowledge that not all map/gametype pairings are created equal

They fulfilled the first point satisfactorily, minor quibbles aside. As for the latter two, we're just at the point where matchmaking works more than it doesn't, 6 moths post release, population decimated (I keep seeing the same gamertags popping in various different playlists) and they obviously disappointed with the playlists.

The move to all BR starts in doubles is encouraging and the guarantee of a BR start in the second slot is welcomed. Are the objective gametypes being upgraded to BR starts? That's absolutely essential; AR starts have shooed me and my friends away from voting for obj in H3 and playing Slayer near exclusively (in 4v4) for 6 months is utterly bland.

P.S H3 Assault and KOTH in BTB are still erroneously AR starts. I can't imagine it's that difficult or deprives H5 of that much bandwidth to address that issue. Also, Assault (2 bomb) is a less interesting CTF and should be jettisoned in favour of the superlative and thrilling Neutral Bomb.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
I've been so let down by the MCC that even if it was 100% functional, I don't think I'd have the heart to boot it up.

Haven't touched it since like December and like others here, I bought this console solely for Halo. So lame but at least I learned something.
 

jem0208

Member
MCC can be fun to play but there's a lengthy list of ifs, buts, caveats and conditions attached to any enjoyment to be had. Last Friday me and a friend played for hours in BTB and it reminded me why I fell in love with Halo multi; the search times were reasonable, we happened upon good gametypes successively and the majority of games had satisfactory networking (I have a theory that the dedi's are prioritised for BTB). However, that Friday session came after a few midweek sessions that pushed not just mine but two others I play with's tolerance to the limit. Several two hour + sessions just feeling like wasted time between the long search times, AR starts, lag, bad maps and bad gametypes; the sort of experience that cumulatively leaves you questioning why you bother to play Halo at all.

With Halo 5 releasing in October we now know that MCC is over half way through its lifespan as the current Halo. It's crashingly disappointing to consider that, 6 months into its 11 month primacy, it's already into the Autumn of its cycle and we're just moving into a position where the maps are configured as they should be and ranks may possibly be rolled out in the next 8 weeks (ranking has been coming 'soon' for the last six months according to the playlist blurbs). Upon its announcement at E3 many posters on here opined that the game would live and die by its playlist settings. A thoughtfully curated 'best of' experience crafted by people who had lived and breathed each game in their respective glory years? Or, a playlist approach that indiscriminately plopped any old map with default gametypes into MM, utterly unmindful of the three years of matchmaking data that Halo 2 and 3 had accumulated? Unfortunately the latter approach was adopted and as a result, reliving frustrations from a decade ago is a regular trial whilst trying to enjoy game time.

Where, one must ask, is the vision for MCC's playlists? Where is the community knowledge reflected in the decisions of the people in charge of this collection? If you so insistently rebuff the now cross-generational call for a custom games browser and cling philosophically to a matchmaking paradigm from 2004 then you have a duty to shape those playlists to the preferential trends of players and yes, the general consensuses of community forums. I see broad agreement that CTF on The Pit, Ball on Lockout, Slayer on Narrows and One Bomb on Headlong are premier experiences; I see similar agreement that Isolation, Orbital, Assembly, Epitaph and Gemini, to name a few, are poor to mediocre maps. I even see the creators of Halo 2, the anniversary of which made for much of the fanfare surrounding MCC, openly profess that SMG starts were and are a mistake and should not happen. Why, then, do I see Isolation, Orbital, Highground, Epitaph and Assembly appear almost every voting round in the H3 playlist, often as a pairing and even more often joined to an AR start? Why are SMG starts so prevalent in the H2 playlist? These experiences were gruelling in 2004/7; in 2015, the post-loadout age, AR starts are a bizarre anachronism that inspire the apathy of the AFK'er and quite literally ruin the experience in 10-20 minute increments. Sure, the odd poster will confess a rare appreciation for one of the aforementioned bad maps but they are an outlier, which is what their appearance in MCC MM should be - not removed for varieties sake but with a low weighting to allow the proven fan favourite's to shine and prosper.

Yes the MCC provides opportunities for fun now that MM is largely up and running. That is testament to the longevity of Bungie's masterpieces. It is in spite of 343's involvement. Seeing as they were releasing games that were already made they were charged with three imperatives to justify the release:

1) Improve the resolution and double the frame rate of each game

2) Provide a cohesive lobby system that allowed the player to seamlessly switch between the games and matchmake without problems

3) Curate the playlists in a manner which took into account years of matchmaking data and acknowledge that not all map/gametype pairings are created equal

They fulfilled the first point satisfactorily, minor quibbles aside. As for the latter two, we're just at the point where matchmaking works more than it doesn't, 6 moths post release, population decimated (I keep seeing the same gamertags popping in various different playlists) and they obviously disappointed with the playlists.

The move to all BR starts in doubles is encouraging and the guarantee of a BR start in the second slot is welcomed. Are the objective gametypes being upgraded to BR starts? That's absolutely essential; AR starts have shooed me and my friends away from voting for obj in H3 and playing Slayer near exclusively (in 4v4) for 6 months is utterly bland.

P.S H3 Assault and KOTH in BTB are still erroneously AR starts. I can't imagine it's that difficult or deprives H5 of that much bandwidth to address that issue. Also, Assault (2 bomb) is a less interesting CTF and should be jettisoned in favour of the superlative and thrilling Neutral Bomb.

I don't disagree with any of this, it's a very fair assessment. I've said time and time again that I think 343's handling of the MCC has been a downright embarrassment. The fact that it took them 5 months to get to an even slightly acceptable state is just awful.

That said I feel like it's finally reached a point where it's worth playing. Like Tawp (I think it was Tawp...) said a while ago, the highs are damn high; and I think the highs now outweigh the lows. As you said 2 of those 3 points are (finally) at an acceptable level and the latest playlist update seems to go a long way towards fixing point 3.
 

Computer

Member
I play with a group of 4 when I play Halo so for me the game is not playable. Playing MCC with a party is a chore. Hard resets, party splitting, joining issues, black screens, and getting stuck after every game until you quit the build are a few of the issues.
 

VinFTW

Member
I've been so let down by the MCC that even if it was 100% functional, I don't think I'd have the heart to boot it up.

Haven't touched it since like December and like others here, I bought this console solely for Halo. So lame but at least I learned something.
I don't think anybody blames you for thinking that way. Hell, Ive played two matches in the past 4 months? There's just far too many excellent games that I could be playing instead of wasting my time on Halo. I'm in for Halo 5, but im enjoying my time with Bloodborne and other releases these past few months.

Pretty excited for Destiny to arrive along with Witcher 3. I'll def. pop in MCC for an ODST play through but that's about it till Halo 5.

Hopefully I can get my Beta squad back together on Halo for Halo 5's launch.
 

VinFTW

Member
Doesn't matter the game.

A precision weapon is objectively better to start with than an automatic.
And the asinine ADS on the AR doesn't make it viable.
You can't really argue starting weapons when both the pistol and the BR need changes/will be getting changes.

Certain changes can be made in either direction to make either starting weapon the better choice.
 
Doesn't matter the game.

A precision weapon is objectively better to start with than an automatic.
And the asinine ADS on the AR doesn't make it viable.

Yup. Its funny how people claimed that AR starts would provide more movement... AR starts will provide that one team is getting rekt if they cant get in touch with a precision weapon.
Its always like this and AR/SMG starts or whatever will always be a reason for me to quit a game. I cant stand shit like this.
 

jem0208

Member
Doesn't matter the game.

A precision weapon is objectively better to start with than an automatic.
And the asinine ADS on the AR doesn't make it viable.

The AT was definitely a far more viable weapon than it has ever been before. I think the addition of zoom for automatics was a good thing as it allows to actually be somewhat useful beyond very close range.

That doesn't really matter anyway, give the pistol a slight buff from the beta (which is what they're doing) and it'll be the perfect starring weapon anyway.



Edit: I know a few pages ago I was saying the ranking system was working well. However I just went down after winning a match 50-17 against people all higher rank than me...
 
Doesn't matter the game.

A precision weapon is objectively better to start with than an automatic.
And the asinine ADS on the AR doesn't make it viable.

Depends how they modify the pistol, I guess. ADS on the AR lets it ping distant BR users out of scope, so it's definitely a step up from previous games.

AR/BR is still the best starting option, though that leaves the pistol out in the cold.
 
off-topic
MCC Flashbacks*
xg676Lh.jpg

I bought a wii u to get away from all this...
 

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
I've been so let down by the MCC that even if it was 100% functional, I don't think I'd have the heart to boot it up.

Haven't touched it since like December and like others here, I bought this console solely for Halo. So lame but at least I learned something.

Would you do it all again? For Halo? For promises of 60 FRAMES PER SECOND ON DEDICATED SERVERS?
 
I've been so let down by the MCC that even if it was 100% functional, I don't think I'd have the heart to boot it up.

Haven't touched it since like December and like others here, I bought this console solely for Halo. So lame but at least I learned something.

what did you learn Fracas

because I thought Halo 4 taught you not to trust 343
 
The main thing that angers me about the MCC launch is that the community has essentially crumbled. The hype before launch was unreal and we'll never get that back.



They need to fix the game, add file share, and make it free with gold in order to boost the population.

They should have used ranked and social "folders" like bungie did in the Halo 3 UI.

Also there is no reason why I should be starting with an SMG or AR in a ranked playlist in 2015. Please fix that.

It's May and the game is still "not great", nobody I know is playing Halo. The direction for Halo 5 is stupid, nobody want to play as as alt. ADS, Sprint, 343 is the anti Halo.
 

Takashi

Member
I just had a pretty intense match on H4- and on Complex of all things. It was probably because I was managing to carry us enough to keep us neck and neck, even though the game started 7v6 before a quitter brought us down even further. Still lost but it was pretty close.

Jesus, some of those teammates tho.. Not even going 35/6 was enough to offset that shit.


Also, I'm assuming ODST will be delayed right? I haven't really kept up with recent updates and stuff.
 

Welfare

Member
I just had a pretty intense match on H4- and on Complex of all things. It was probably because I was managing to carry us enough to keep us neck and neck, even though the game started 7v6 before a quitter brought us down even further. Still lost but it was pretty close.


Jesus, some of those teammates tho.. Not even going 35/6 was enough to offset that shit.

Seriously, who stays in a match when you only have 1 kill and 10+ deaths? Just leave. It would help the team more than if you stayed.
 
I began listening to the Guardians Menu music on YT again, and I'm still impressed by how much the music seems to have improved from 4. I think 343 made the right choice having Kazuma compose the music for this game. He ain't Marty, but he sure can make music.
 

HTupolev

Member
The unfinished Halo ring was an amazing setting. Unfortunate banding in the second picture.
Thankfully nowhere near as bad as MCC Floodgate.

I'd love to hear why the XB1 version has more color precision issues than the original game. The only idea I've got is that maybe they switched to a floating point buffer, and some post-processing step used to translate down the brights in a way that took advantage of Halo 3 having an unusually high allocation of precision at the top of its range.
 

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
Thankfully nowhere near as bad as MCC Floodgate.

I'd love to hear why the XB1 version has more color precision issues than the original game. The only idea I've got is that maybe they switched to a floating point buffer, and some post-processing step used to translate down the brights in a way that took advantage of Halo 3 having an unusually high allocation of precision at the top of its range.

Definitely the floating buffer processor
 

RowdyReverb

Member
I can't decide how I'd feel if ODST was delayed to June. On one hand, I'd like to not get another half-baked Halo experience and might prefer a delay as a result, but on the other hand why would they tell us May in the first place if it was too soon?
I guess I can only hope that a working ODST comes out next week so I don't have to think about it.
 

HTupolev

Member
but on the other hand why would they tell us May in the first place if it was too soon?
Why would they release MCC in November if it would take months to get it even to what many people would consider "playable?"

343i's product development timing has had an overpromising issue.
 
I've been so let down by the MCC that even if it was 100% functional, I don't think I'd have the heart to boot it up.

Haven't touched it since like December and like others here, I bought this console solely for Halo. So lame but at least I learned something.
I'm right there with you, tbh, I'm not even one hundred percent sure that ODST will bring me back to MCC.

Of course, Halo 5 is looking hype as hell and I'll definitely join the train for that, but I'm so apathetic towards the MCC that i barely read HaloGAF anymore, and combined with the fact that Destiny is on the up and up,I'm failing to find reasons to stick with the MCC.
 

Danny 117

Member
Question: During the events of Halo 2/3/4 who was chief taking orders from? Himself? I know there was a period during Halo 3 which his orders from Hood were to "stop truth" but beside that, who was he listening to? Cortana/Miranda?
 
Question: During the events of Halo 2/3/4 who was chief taking orders from? Himself? I know there was a period during Halo 3 which his orders from Hood were to "stop truth" but beside that, who was he listening to? Cortana/Miranda?

Spartan IIs are largely independent combat units, they can take liberties when in the field and sometimes can even override a higher-ranking officer's command as seen in The Flood and First Strike. Other than a main objective like "stop Truth" Chief pretty much takes his own orders, plus the majority of UNSC's military forces that is not Del Rio respects Spartan IIs' combat experience and would take their suggestion and decision highly into account.
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
Seriously, who stays in a match when you only have 1 kill and 10+ deaths? Just leave. It would help the team more than if you stayed.

I started playing Halo with MCC. I got my ass kicked that level for quite a while, in 90% of my matches. When I started I would be happy just being able to not finish in the last place.

For some whatever reason, even giving its problems, every match I played was so full of funny and interesting moments, even when I was doing really bad, that the game just clicked to me as no other competitive shooter ever had. So I kept playing. I'm nowhere a high level player yet, but now I see myself scoring at 3rd and 2nd place quite frequently and sometimes even first, so I definitely improved. It would never happen if I just rage quit when being destroyed though.
 
My thought for the day on creating a Halo frenzy...

MCC goes for free with gold XBL sub.

+

H5 uses the same interface as MCC for matchmaking.

+

MCC & H5 on Windows 10 but share matchmaking with the Xbox One populations.

+

Sell a balls out Forge Windows version separately that has game search/toggles linked to the community cartographer program/process.

They'll be using the same Azure servers anyway and can show other developers the benefits of development, games and populations sharing between PC and X1.

Systems are all the same e.g. File share, recorded games, tournies, ranks, playlists etc.

Hire me
I don't want a job
 

jem0208

Member
My thought for the day on creating a Halo frenzy...

MCC goes for free with gold XBL sub.

+

H5 uses the same interface as MCC for matchmaking.

+

MCC & H5 on Windows 10 but share matchmaking with the Xbox One populations.

Sell a balls out Forge Windows version separately that has game search/toggles linked to the community cartographer program/process.

They'll be using the same Azure servers anyway and can show other developers the benefits of development, games and populations sharing between PC and X1.

Systems are all the same e.g. File share, recorded games, tournies, ranks, playlists etc.

Hire me
I don't want a job
PCs playing with consoles has been tried before and it doesn't work. If you allow them to use m/kb then they'll dominate the console players, if you force them so use controllers you'll alienate a large section of the PC player base. It doesn't really work...



Mouse aiming with the Halo Sniper is easy god mode. Don't even need to zoom, snapshots all day every day.
 
My thought for the day on creating a Halo frenzy...

MCC goes for free with gold XBL sub.

+

H5 uses the same interface as MCC for matchmaking.

+

MCC & H5 on Windows 10 but share matchmaking with the Xbox One populations.

+

Sell a balls out Forge Windows version separately that has game search/toggles linked to the community cartographer program/process.

They'll be using the same Azure servers anyway and can show other developers the benefits of development, games and populations sharing between PC and X1.

Systems are all the same e.g. File share, recorded games, tournies, ranks, playlists etc.

Hire me
I don't want a job
You can try sharing part of the community like Forge or even COOP but for the love of god don't cross platform MM in competitive MP.
 

Lazaro

Member
PCs playing with consoles has been tried before and it doesn't work. If you allow them to use m/kb then they'll dominate the console players, if you force them so use controllers you'll alienate a large section of the PC player base. It doesn't really work...



Mouse aiming with the Halo Sniper is easy god mode. Don't even need to zoom, snapshots all day every day.

Crysis PC allowed Servers with Controller users only. Sadly I don't remember many people using it.

Windows 10 WinRT API is sandboxed so I would imagine its harder to play illegitimately. Microsoft could easily lock out M/KB users from Cross-Platform multiplayer access.

The other issue I'm thinking of is PC players playing at 4k 120FPS
lol.
They see a lot more pixels and have a better response time than console players.
 
Crysis PC allowed Servers with Controller users only. Sadly I don't remember many people using it.

Windows 10 WinRT API is sandboxed so I would imagine its harder to play illegitimately. Microsoft could easily lock out M/KB users from Cross-Platform multiplayer access.

The other issue I'm thinking of is PC players playing at 4k 120FPS
lol.
They see a lot more pixels and have a better response time than console players.

Don't forget potential FoV differences.
 
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