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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

First game of Team Doubles. No radar ruins it, IMO. Half the time you're just running around like a headless chicken.

captureemyf.png


That's kinda frustrating. I honestly thought my team mate was going to quit (blue team)...
Probably would have won if he did
I had the exact opposite experience for my first game, which was Doubles Pro (really do enjoy Scythe, great job to the CC for getting it in place).

doublesh8yoz.png


I absolutely loved having no radar, which is really weird for me. I've spent so much time looking at it in my Halo 'career' that it's somewhat of a crutch, but I absolutely preferred it to Infinity. As I feared, having personal loadouts and shit like Promethean Vision and Camo kills what fun the mode could have been. I sincerely hope a change can be made to the Infinity gametype to have fixed loadouts paired with the less shitty AA's like Hologram and Thrusters, but in all honesty, I wouldn't shed a single tear if Infinity was completely scrapped from Doubles (yeah, I know I'm kidding myself).

Nice! I love this (Haven) map's "flow" updates. Amazing how two lights and lifts can do to make the map play quite well. Power weapon cycle is beautiful on this map, too. Is the Needler not considered a power weapon like the sticky and railgun? It spawns Mohawk, but there is no ordnance hud thingy.
Agreed; the tweaks made to Haven are really well done. Besides some spawning issues that have already been mentioned.
 

Madness

Member
To all these people talking about campaign progress, I believe the way it works is that your campaign progress (i.e how many missions you've completed) is saved online. Your checkpoints are the save that are on console. With Reach and CE:A I lost both my saves for them and I still have access to all my missions and etc.

With Reach I still had my saves and achievements and even my Bungie profile showed I completed the campaign on heroic and was more than halfway through on legendary. Don't know what happened but one day, my spartan reverted to the noble six armor and some ugly brown logo. But all my campaign pogress was gone.

My saves, checkpoints all intact and saved on my hard drive but the game doesnt recognize them. I had to beat the campaign again on easy quickly just so I could choose which levels I wanted to replay for challenges.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I had the exact opposite experience for my first game, which was Doubles Pro (really do enjoy Scythe, great job to the CC for getting it in place).

doublesh8yoz.png


I absolutely loved having no radar, which is really weird for me. I've spent so much time looking at it in my Halo 'career' that it's somewhat of a crutch, but I absolutely preferred it to Infinity. As I feared, having personal loadouts and shit like Promethean Vision and Camo kills what fun the mode could have been. I sincerely hope a change can be made to the Infinity gametype to have fixed loadouts paired with the less shitty AA's like Hologram and Thrusters, but in all honesty, I wouldn't shed a single tear if Infinity was completely scrapped from Doubles (yeah, I know I'm kidding myself).

Agreed; the tweaks made to Haven are really well done. Besides some spawning issues that have already been mentioned.

It's funny--a game of Doubles on Haven calcified my dislike of no radar. The other team got 5 kills ahead early when my ally dropped and we started making up the difference but by the end they were just camping in nooks and crannies. We'd get maybe one kill every minute, and the power weapons that spawn aren't the best for cleaning them out. I felt like if we only had radar, it'd be easier to find out where these guys were running to. Any map larger than Haven and the problem becomes even bigger.
 
It's funny--a game of Doubles on Haven calcified my dislike of no radar. The other team got 5 kills ahead early when my ally dropped and we started making up the difference but by the end they were just camping in nooks and crannies. We'd get maybe one kill every minute, and the power weapons that spawn aren't the best for cleaning them out. I felt like if we only had radar, it'd be easier to find out where these guys were running to. Any map larger than Haven and the problem becomes even bigger.
My opinion may change over the course of my time with Doubles, but that can definitely be infuriating. A similar situation could have played out with Infinity though; Other team has camo and/or PromVision, gets a lead and finds a place to camp with the Sticky Detonator.

Actually, the last game of Pro I played last night was a bit of cat and mouse on Haven, with us able to come back and tie the game with 10 seconds left. Very few kills overall, but it was still intense with no radar.

Check your theater to see where those bastards were hiding, I'd like to know for future reference.
 
Played Infinity on Abandon, no crazy drops.

Asked Jazzy, he played Rail Infinity and nothing crazy. He did get Scattershot though which was not in the original personal ordnance. And then he got a Binary on Scythe so my theory has fallen to shit lol

Doubles Pro is godly though. Feels so damn good.

Enemy team got two FRGs on Sythe (I hate that map) yesterday, I have yet to try Pro.
They were also whoring PV and the Boltshot which totally killed the match for me :(
 

m23

Member
Oh wow. I lost all my campaign progress for some reason. Was going to do the weekly challenge. Eh

Same thing happened to me a few weeks back. The game still remembers I beat the game solo legendary, but all the levels are gone so I need to beat them all again.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
My opinion may change over the course of my time with Doubles, but that can definitely be infuriating. A similar situation could have played out with Infinity though; Other team has camo and/or PromVision, gets a lead and finds a place to camp with the Sticky Detonator.

Actually, the last game of Pro I played last night was a bit of cat and mouse on Haven, with us able to come back and tie the game with 10 seconds left. Very few kills overall, but it was still intense with no radar.

Check your theater to see where those bastards were hiding, I'd like to know for future reference.

The pockets with the dropdowns on the top floor and the corners of the man cannon platforms were the biggest spots I think. One thing I do appreciate about doubles is that your sound plays a bigger role.

Yeah personally I find PV forces people to be more mobile as camp less, but it definitely enables some people to sit and get kills with power weapons too. I guess hide and seekers are a frustration that would exist Infinity or not.
 
These weekly challenges are so easy, especially for 40k credits. All it took was 4 game of Grifball. Enjoying these large challenge payouts.
 
The pockets with the dropdowns on the top floor and the corners of the man cannon platforms were the biggest spots I think. One thing I do appreciate about doubles is that your sound plays a bigger role.

Yeah personally I find PV forces people to be more mobile as camp less, but it definitely enables some people to sit and get kills with power weapons too. I guess hide and seekers are a frustration that would exist Infinity or not.
except Infinity, where I can just run forever silently. ;-)

These weekly challenges are so easy, especially for 40k credits. All it took was 4 game of Grifball. Enjoying these large challenge payouts.
I've just started my final Specialization, so Challenges will have a different meaning me very soon. I try and go for the non-stupid ones as much as possible (Drop Bears needs to go away forever), but pretty soon it will just be for the satisfaction of completing something.
 

Karl2177

Member
You guys asked for it, here it is. Comprehensive listing of all weapons (and other parts of the golden triangle-with-a-dot-in-the-center of the of Halo's combat, that central dot being the revised AA system) that are a part of my sandbox revision project, now titled Instruments of War.

http://i.imgur.com/qDhzOrw.png[IMG]
[/QUOTE]

So I'm awake. My biggest question is about the redundancy. Why would I use a Storm Rifle versus the Suppressor versus the Assault Rifle? One thing that Reach did really well was to remove the redundant weapons that cluttered things up. Admittedly, they added in the Repeater, which was essentially a shitty version of the AR, but that was so the Elites weren't hyper-powerful in Invasion. But overall, there wasn't much overlap.

When you say "pretty damn refreshing to see that power weapon list so minimal" I see essentially 19 power or semi-power weapons above it.
 
I've just started my final Specialization, so Challenges will have a different meaning me very soon. I try and go for the non-stupid ones as much as possible (Drop Bears needs to go away forever), but pretty soon it will just be for the satisfaction of completing something.

This method of doling out credits always bugged me. Why not, since commendations are tied to unlocks, have a "challenges" set of commendations instead of making the challenges based solely on credits. Have different tiers for the commendations based on difficulty or whatever instead of timeframe. This way, the progression system lasts a tiny bit longer and the challenges actually go towards a goal instead of being done and forgotten.
 

Shadders

Member
There's a long reply to this, but at work and such.

More than the morality of it, it's unmaintainable in this environment, one just has look at some of the competing online services to see how well lower priced big content does.

There are no competing online services, though. Microsoft own the stock and the store, they can charge what they like. I wouldn't buy it at that price, and I wouldn't advise anyone to, but I know there are substantial number of people who will be more than happy to part with that money. I really don't think the price of similar games on competing services is a factor.

A realistic, fair price would be $40, but that is still more expensive than a lot of bricks and mortar retailers. The very nature of B&M sales dictates that someone out there will be undercutting them.

We may scoff at a $60 sale price, but we, I assume, are all moderate earners; but the more you earn, the larger the amount of money you consider to be negligible is. When I bought my Wii U, it was £10 cheaper online, but I couldn't be bothered to wait a day so I went and bought it from GAME. To me, the £10 was an amount of money that I didn't really care about. As salaries increase, there will be people who don't bat an eyelid at purchasing an item that is £40 or £50. Those folks - and there's a substantial number of them - are why digital console games will remain at high prices. Like I said earlier, they're not losing any sales, if people consider $60/£40 to be too much for a digital copy of Halo 4, they'll go to a shop and buy it for $40/£30. You can't really compare that to Steam and PC games, because where the hell would you go to buy a PC game? (This is a bit contradictory to my earlier point about MS owning the store and the stock..)

Finally, and I believe this might be the main reason, I think they're scared to drop the price. Consumers are funny things, especially gamers. Prices we expect to pay for things become "set" in our heads and we don't like to see them go up. [Gaffers complaining about Sony increasing the price of the Dual Shock 3 pads a couple of years back would be a good example]. At the moment the expected price of a digital release is full RRP, it would only take one big game to release at a lower (fairer) price and that would become the price people expect to pay, they could never go back.

I don't want digital games to be expensive, and I'm not buying them at the current prices, but I can understand Microsoft's position.
 

Madness

Member
So I'm awake. My biggest question is about the redundancy. Why would I use a Storm Rifle versus the Suppressor versus the Assault Rifle? One thing that Reach did really well was to remove the redundant weapons that cluttered things up. Admittedly, they added in the Repeater, which was essentially a shitty version of the AR, but that was so the Elites weren't hyper-powerful in Invasion. But overall, there wasn't much overlap.

When you say "pretty damn refreshing to see that power weapon list so minimal" I see essentially 19 power or semi-power weapons above it.

But wouldn't it be too hard to make all faction weapons have their own role and yet be different enough that they weren't redundant. It was fine when it was humans vs covies, but now you've got prometheans as well.

I think more people are noticing this now because you can theoretically have all weapons in play on all maps.

I mean how different can you really make an assault rifle type weapon?
 
So I'm awake. My biggest question is about the redundancy. Why would I use a Storm Rifle versus the Suppressor versus the Assault Rifle? One thing that Reach did really well was to remove the redundant weapons that cluttered things up. Admittedly, they added in the Repeater, which was essentially a shitty version of the AR, but that was so the Elites weren't hyper-powerful in Invasion. But overall, there wasn't much overlap.

When you say "pretty damn refreshing to see that power weapon list so minimal" I see essentially 19 power or semi-power weapons above it.

The Loadout weapons are deliberately repetitive; since everybody can spawn with them and they'd all hypothetically be unlocked from the start. It's mostly a matter of personal preference per individual category. To offer a counterpoint, while you may not see a reason to use the Storm Rifle over a Suppressor, someone else might, given that it has the highest ammo count of the three primary automatics. Let me try and provide a comprehensive list of mechanics.

BR: 4-shot kill.
Carbine: 6-shot kill.
Light Rifle: 5 or 4-shot kill.
All kill times are roughly the same save for the scoped Light Rifle which is the highest, but this is offset by it not being hitscan and being so "lightweight" (hence heavy flinching). Range reduced to BR and Carbine levels, Halo 4 Light Rifle range is inherited by the Pulse Rifle (see below).

Assault Rifle: Best at low-mid range.
Suppressor: Best at close-range.
Storm Rifle: Neither, but has the highest ammo capacity.

These weapons are roughly unchanged saved for possibly giving the Suppressor an altmode.

Magnum: Increased dexterity on things like reloads.
Plasma Pistol: EMP and homing functionality. The EMP isn't as powerful anymore on vehicles but the individual shots have been buffed, similar to the Reach/Reach Beta Plasma Pistol.
Boltshot: Charge shot eats up your entire clip and can only be used when you have a full clip; it's only strong enough to deplete someone's shields. Still a 10-shot kill otherwise. So essentially you're choosing between a beefy Plasma Pistol that can EMP or a quick Plasma Pistol that can headshot.

Silenced SMG: Pretty similar to the ODST version; major advantage is the scope.
Plasma Rifle: Slightly nerfed. It has a slower rate of fire but the "globs" of plasma are bigger and induce slowdown like the CE version.
Oscillator: Highest learning curve of the loadout weapons. When mastered it has a kill time of about the Assault Rifle but requires much less ammo. It has an altmode which is essential to successful use. Its primary firing mode shoots small red needles like Enforcers do, good against shielding. Tapping the scope button activates its altmode which fires a bright red beam that devastates unshielded targets. Using either mode by itself will result in below-average kill times; timing the enemy's shields dropping, switching modes, and beaming them is a matter of finesse.

Frag Grenade: See Halo 4 version.
Plasma Grenade: More lightweight than the Halo 4 version, detonation time after a stick is between the CE and 2 versions. Damage is halved against vehicles. One idea to prevent trolling is a "Bouncing Betty" custom game option that makes grenades thrown onto teammates' vehicles simply bounce off with no negative consequences to the vehicle.
Pulse Grenade: Made slightly heavier. Default mode saps your enemy's AA meter and has damage equivalent to what it is now. Altmode (hold the left trigger after throwing until the grenade goes off, no cooking) has no AA effect but induces heavy vertical and horizontal slowdown; damage is halved compared to AA Sapper. If your opponent either has no AA or it's recharging/depleted, the grenade's damage is doubled.
Phase Grenade: Default mode is a Promethean Firebomb. Altmode (hold left trigger until detonation, no cooking) is a Promethean Spike Grenade.
You can spawn with 2 grenades, using any mixture of the above 4.

Shotgun: See Halo 4 version.
Combiner: Needler Shotgun. Highest range of the shotgun but only 3 shots per clip, moderate rate of fire (think slightly faster than a Binary Rifle). The Combiner shoots out a huge flurry of needle shrapnel which homes in, but all the shards have to hit to induce detonation. Homing is on par with the CE Needler and takes just about as long to detonate.
Scattershot: More consistent spread. Charging the gun will shoot out the same projectiles but they have two and a half times the range and can ricochet up to five times before dissipating. This takes up two rounds in the clip.

SAW: Pretty much unchanged.
Needler: Halo 4 version.
Sentinel Beam: Basically a combination between the Halo 2 and 3 versions. Kill times are between the SAW and Needler but may have an altmode to make up for it (such as a hitscan beam that eats up twice the battery and overheats twice as fast).

DMR: 6-shot kill. Designed explicitly to counter Snipers and ping people from high ranges; in a fight against any precision loadout weapon where the Loadout user has a red reticle, the DMR user will likely lose.
Needle Rifle: Slowest kill time of the Precision Marksman weapons, but compensates for it with superdetonation functionality. See above for sandbox role.
Pulse Rifle: Halo CE Pistol and the Beam Rifle had a baby. High learning curve. Potential for a 4-shot kill with the third-highest kill time in the game for non-instakill weapons, the top two being the Sniper and Beam Rifle, respectively. It runs on a battery, so improper timing will make you overheat before you can get the kill. Not getting a kill on the fourth shot will cause a very loud, very lens-flared overheating of the gun. A kill on the overheating shot dampens the light and sound significantly as a reward for pacing your shots. This gun has horrible battery life, but its altmode (scoped) is a Power Saver mode that has a much slower 5-shot kill (equal to DMR kill time) that eats up considerably less battery per shot. It has a red 6-dotted laser sight visible on targets at all times. Range is about halfway between the BR/Carbine/Light Rifle and DMR/Nerfle; that way you can counter snipers, but aren't 4-shot pinging people across the map and causing another Halo 4 DMR situation.

I'll get into the other weapons later. tl;dr Loadouts are meant to be diverse so that you can customize your starting weapons according to your playstyle while still offering a balanced experience. Initial Ordnance is diverse because they're the only power weapons that spawn at the beginning of the match, and having 6 DMRs, 4 SAWs, and 2 Shotguns on each map at the start would admittedly be boring for a lot of players.
 
This method of doling out credits always bugged me. Why not, since commendations are tied to unlocks, have a "challenges" set of commendations instead of making the challenges based solely on credits. Have different tiers for the commendations based on difficulty or whatever instead of timeframe. This way, the progression system lasts a tiny bit longer and the challenges actually go towards a goal instead of being done and forgotten.
Right, it certainly seems like once you reach the max level in H4, there's not much tying one to complete challenges any more. Personally, I think it was pretty short-sighted to stop any forward progress after SR130. It's almost as if 343 had something else in mind in terms of progression after max "rank", but that's probably just silly talk.
 
Right, it certainly seems like once you reach the max level in H4, there's not much tying one to complete challenges any more. Personally, I think it was pretty short-sighted to stop any forward progress after SR130. It's almost as if 343 had something else in mind in terms of progression after max "rank", but that's probably just silly talk.

Yeah, I didn't set out to go on some crazy challenge streak like I did when Reach launched, so once I hit SR130, I stopped caring about XP and anything that awarded it (challenges & commendations). It doesn't even visibly stockpile like cR did in Reach. The only reason I'm working on commendations now is to unlock all of the armor. I may try a LASO run with friends just to finish unlocking everything on Waypoint, but that 50,000 XP award contributes nothing to my Halo 4 experience now.
 

Moa

Member
"Late February will also bring both a Title Update and the Majestic Map Pack (which includes two small maps and one medium-sized map) to Halo 4 as well"

The Halo Bulletin: 1.9.13

To be completely fair, the first we heard of the File Browser coming to Waypoint was going to be 'early december'.

Now it is 'late February', I realize the in-game one was broken but I don't take 343's dates seriously any more.
 

Duji

Member
I don't usually call out devs on here and would rather not but I've got to say I'm really, really not comfortable with a guy like Kevin Franklin being anywhere near the title of lead multiplayer designer for a triple A, important, special game like Halo. The infinity gametype is an experiment gone catastrophically awry. It's failure is absolute and comprehensive. It does not function correctly with Halo gameplay. I do not understand why a collective of patently talented people who profess so insistently their love for Halo allow infinity's butchery to first happen and then shamefully continue and corrupt mainline playlists such as CTF. Do. Not. Understand.
Took the words straight out of my mouth.
 
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