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[Hydranockz]

So what exactly is the rock-paper-scissors equivalent in terms of AAs in Halo 4? Or was it the weapons?

Rock->Scissors->Paper->Rock

It's ok if you can't list em all but what are the definite ones that stand out? Pick any AA. Now, what would someone else hae to spawn with that would mean they have the advantage?

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

So what exactly is the rock-paper-scissors equivalent in terms of AAs in Halo 4? Or was it the weapons?

Rock->Scissors->Paper->Rock

It's ok if you can't list em all but what are the definite ones that stand out? Pick any AA. Now, what would someone else hae to spawn with that would mean they have the advantage?

Been done before mate. Checkout Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard & Spock

Also this from OT13
Halo was never Rock vs. Rock alone, it has always been Rock, Paper & Scissors. Since Halo 3 & Reach it has become more Rock, Paper, Scissors, Dynamite. Now with Halo 4 it is more the evolution of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard & Spock.

 

[Hydranockz]

Been done before mate. Checkout Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard & Spock

Shit. You got me. I totally didn't ask for in-game examples. I got done guys. He sent me packin'.

Where do I go to put a lizard in my loadout?

I appreciate the effort of having edited but you could have at least tried actually answering my question :/

 

[Tawpgun]

In Halo 1-3 though you had to earn your rock papers and scissors.

In Halo Reach you got to pick one of your rocks/papers/scissors

In Halo 4 you get to pick them and some are randomly given to you.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Any of you nerds ever played Resident Evil 4? It's $9.79 on PSN. Worth it?

 

[TheOddOne]

 

[Tashi]

Whooaa cool!

 

[YourExWife]

EDIT: Tweet removed? hmmm....

 

[Striker]

In Halo 1-3 though you had to earn your rock papers and scissors.

In Halo Reach you got to pick one of your rocks/papers/scissors

In Halo 4 you get to pick them and some are randomly given to you.

In basic Reach you still had weapon spawns like in previous Halo's. It was just Invasion or Actionsack where you spawned with different weapons (unless you count Elite Slayer, aka Ghosts and plasma pistol's).

They had loadouts but they were premade. Unlike here in Halo 4.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Shit. You got me. I totally didn't ask for in-game examples. I got done guys. He sent me packin'.

Where do I go to put a lizard in my loadout?

I didn't intend it that way, my bad, speed reading isn't the greatest assimilation sometimes. I think I got excited to repost that Rock, Paper analogy

For Halo 4 loadouts/counters in game I'd say foremost any AA/loadout is generally countered by the same loadout. Below are other counters:

Promethean Vision = Countered by camo+stealth or hologram. Mild counters in sensor mod or nemesis.

Thruster Pack = Countered by jetpack lines of sight. Mild counters in mobility mod or explosives.

Hologram = Countered by pre-emptive camo or player awareness of activation and predictable movement. Mild counters in shielding mod or sensor.

Hardlight Shield = Countered by jetpack or thruster pack in CQC. Mild counters in shielding mod or grenadier or explosives.

Auto Sentry = Countered by hologram or regen field. Mild counters in shielding mod or firepower or dexterity.

Jetpack = Countered by camo or thruster pack or HLS. Mild counters in shielding mod or sensor or stability.

Active Camo = Countered by promethean vision or hologram. Mild counters in dexterity mod or grenadier or sensor or explosives or nemesis.

Regen Field = Countered by HLS. Mild counters in explosives mod or mobility or grenadier or dexterity or sensor or stealth.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Things being countered by different loadouts...

RIP Halo

 

[Hydranockz]

In Halo 1-3 though you had to earn your rock papers and scissors.

In Halo Reach you got to pick one of your rocks/papers/scissors

In Halo 4 you get to pick them and some are randomly given to you.

Ok, I don't think you're using RPS in any way properly. The only thing you can say from RPS is that each one has a very definite counter but also has superiority over another. Look at most RTS games. I figured if you were going to throw the term around for Halo, it might make some bit of sense.

Like, ok, old games, Rock versus roc, I hear you. The game is taking away that choice. You can only spawn with that weapon and it is equal to that same weapon.

How does that even begin to work with other games? (Or rather, what are the equivalents in Halo to RPS?) Earning your RPS. Map control analogy sure, but you now have Paper spawning on the map so obviously players want that. The trick being that, because there is no scissors, the paper weapons take center stage and are the focus of the matches.

Saying you spawn with RPSLS? What? Where does that match up? What trumps what? Surely there are a few in-game examples? Are you saying weapons are Rock, AAs are Paper and each other featre goes on to a different thing?

Why use such a clear metaphor so terribly?

If anything, Halo is a Mario game.

AR and the other lower tier weapons are your tiny Mario.

Find a mushroom. Boom. Movin' on up. That's your BR. Get killed from some shitty AR? Back to spawn as tiny Mario. AR starts was about finding that mushroom.

So say that we spawn as the bigger Mario. Running out of ammo is the only way we can go down a tier. Finding pwer weapons on the map would be finding the leaf or other power ups. Armour lock right away is the Star and that can fuck right off.

Imagining Mario as a competitive game where you must stand on the other Marios, you can see how the power ups only really counter the standard Mario and don't really trump each other in that regard. I think this is a far closer analogy to Halo than this RPS nonsense. That's assuming this analogy is mostly bad too.

 

[TheOddOne]

EDIT: Tweet removed? hmmm....

I might have spoiled it :lol

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

Changing all my Phone tones and the likes to play the Superintendent's sounds from Halo 3:ODST.

 

[Tawpgun]

It's not difficult to understand. Rock Papers Scissors is a very annoying analogy because little in Halo is that absolute.

But listen to this.

Halo 1-3

Everyone spawned with a rock. There were Scissors Papers Spocks and Lizards on the map.

Reach

Everyone spawns with a rock and you can choose one other item (AA). Anyone can choose any item. You won't know what your enemy has until they use it.

Halo 4

You basically get to choose any Rock, Paper, Scissor, Lizard and Spock you want in the menu. Throughout the game either by chance or if you build up your points meter, you will be given a RANDOM item as well.

 

[YourExWife]

Clips from Action Sack earlier while playing with Zoso and Hydranockz.

This is apparently where you go to break the Tashi ceiling repeatedly now.

 

[HTupolev]

Weren't the fish tank and the wall compression sequences bidirectionally interactive? Correct me if I'm wrong but that water flow interacts in a number of flow directions (not just two main flows), that's what you're getting at yes? Isn't that irrelevant to a simulation in 3D over say 2D?

I'm referring to interaction between water handled on the GPU and things handled elsewhere. The big barrier with GPU physics has always been that it's insanely difficult to get results to interact with other systems elsewhere. Heck, even in Halo's 3 and Reach where the polygon water shape is presumably more available and manipulatable (on account of not being GPU physics), the shape of the waves don't actually have anything to do with the water physics. I want things like Bloodwake on the original Xbox, where it seems like your boat actually rides on the splashes created by things like mines going off (in addition to the water being splashed and shaped by your boat... hence, "bi-directional").

I want things to interact with my crazy sophisticated water, but it'll look silly if the water is sloshing super-realistically around a box that's floating around ignorant to the shape of the waves.

 

[Rev3rb]

Clips from Action Sack earlier while playing with Zoso and Hydranockz.

This is apparently where you go to break the Tashi ceiling repeatedly now.

Snapshot, snapshot, snapshot!

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Clips from Action Sack earlier while playing with Zoso and Hydranockz.

This is apparently where you go to break the Tashi ceiling repeatedly now.

LOL you don't even grab the flag here ya damn tryhard, stat paddin' whore.

something something 343 dev process

lol

 

[Hydranockz]

Clips from Action Sack earlier while playing with Zoso and Hydranockz.

This is apparently where you go to break the Tashi ceiling repeatedly now.

Check out th skill for the last match. look at the buuuuullshit :lol http://www.team.quickcsr.com/Hydranockz

 

[User 73706]

something something 343 dev process

 

[YourExWife]

Snapshot, snapshot, snapshot!

The announcer never finished before the lobby or in theater, lol. Also, the Lightning Flag game postgame said I only had 3 overkills but theater proved 4. Weird.

LOL you don't even grab the flag here ya damn tryhard, stat paddin' whore.

I was alone pretty much the whole time, people respawn really fast, and they just took our flag. Don't want a big sign over my head for the flag guy to see. AKA SHUT UP JERK!

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I'm referring to interaction between water handled on the GPU and things handled elsewhere. The big barrier with GPU physics has always been that it's insanely difficult to get results to interact with other systems elsewhere. Heck, even in Halo's 3 and Reach where the polygon water shape is presumably more available and manipulatable (on account of not being GPU physics), the shape of the waves don't actually have anything to do with the water physics. I want things like Bloodwake on the original Xbox, where it seems like your boat actually rides on the splashes created by things like mines going off (in addition to the water being splashed and shaped by your boat... hence, "bi-directional").

I want things to interact with my crazy sophisticated water, but it'll look silly if the water is sloshing super-realistically around a box that's floating around ignorant to the shape of the waves.

Thx, I understand what you mean. From the demo video their answer for you is yes. You can see the interactivity with the shattering tank glass, the dynamic wall and the character models leg drag.

As for in game and usage by developers who knows what next gen console and hardware will enable Halo water to do?

Also I remember Bungie laughing how the river on Valhalla has waves, sometimes things are purely aesthetic but I'm with you on meaningful interactions.

 

[Hydranockz]

The announcer never finished before the lobby or in theater, lol. Also, the Lightning Flag game postgame said I only had 3 overkills but theater proved 4. Weird.

There was a blackscreen. It gave me new ordnance drops and probably got rid of any overkill before it?

 

[MrGreencastle]

It's not difficult to understand. Rock Papers Scissors is a very annoying analogy because little in Halo is that absolute.

But listen to this.

Halo 1-3

Everyone spawned with a rock. There were Scissors Papers Spocks and Lizards on the map.

Reach

Everyone spawns with a rock and you can choose one other item (AA). Anyone can choose any item. You won't know what your enemy has until they use it.

Halo 4

You basically get to choose any Rock, Paper, Scissor, Lizard and Spock you want in the menu. Throughout the game either by chance or if you build up your points meter, you will be given a RANDOM item as well.

Well said. I think a lot of people here who dislike the loadout system are just too tired of explaining to people over and over again why it doesn't actually give players more choice. The different abilities/items in the loadouts were things that were generally inherent abilities in previous Halo games, only now instead of having access to all of them off spawn (and fighting over upgrades on the battlefield) we instead are artificially, and arbitrarily constrained to only picking enough to fit our loadout. The rest of the game had to be balanced around that notion, which led to the whole game just becoming a lot less predictable in the more competitive settings. Normally this type of thing would be fine, except for the fact that "legacy" Halo fans (for pretty much the first time in the history of Halo) were not given the tools necessary to recreate their ideal Halo experience of the past - inside and outside of matchmaking. It almost felt like a complete rewrite (which would make sense, considering 343 is different from Bungie) - I just think most "legacy" fans wish 343 had opted to use Halo 3 as the source material, rather than Halo: Reach. I will say though that Halo 4 today is a better game than Halo 4 Nov 6, so there's that.

I'm speaking mostly about multiplayer stuff, as I still found the campaign and spartan ops quite enjoyable, as well as the outside material like FUD and the Greg Bear novels, which were great. We'll see what they can do with the new box, but I know I'm a lot more skeptical this time than last time. Fool me once, and all that jazz.

 

[Tunavi]

SalsaShark giving Kyle a run for his money

good game

no fun

So what's good about it again?

 

[Zoso Achilles]

I was alone pretty much the whole time, people respawn really fast, and they just took our flag. Don't want a big sign over my head for the flag guy to see. AKA SHUT UP JERK!

What the hell was I doing the whole time? Obviously not shooting anyone, you had that taken care of lol

 

[HTupolev]

Thx, I understand what you mean. From the demo video their answer for you is yes. You can see the interactivity with the shattering tank glass, the dynamic wall and the character models.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The character models never react to the water splashing around them. And the glass is only being broken by the person running the simulation, though can itself possibly be handled as GPU particles in a situation like this (although I'm not convinced that it is, as there are a lot of times in the demo that glass gets hit by a foreceful-looking bunch of water without budging).

As for in game and usage by developers who knows what next gen console and hardware will enable Halo water to do?

Hopefully more than they did this gen. Halo was ahead of the shooter pack, but there's a serious lack of water-focused games. Some of the coolest water systems in games are on sixth-gen hardware. We should be able to do a LOT more today.

Hopefully the answer isn't "screen space reflections on all the water." A lot of people seem to want that, even though it's artifacty as hell. I'm all for real-time reflections (HALO COMBAT EVOLVED YEEAAAAHH), but I have standards. :/

 

[Obscured]

Ok, I don't think you're using RPS in any way properly. The only thing you can say from RPS is that each one has a very definite counter but also has superiority over another. Look at most RTS games. I figured if you were going to throw the term around for Halo, it might make some bit of sense.

Like, ok, old games, Rock versus roc, I hear you. The game is taking away that choice. You can only spawn with that weapon and it is equal to that same weapon.

How does that even begin to work with other games? (Or rather, what are the equivalents in Halo to RPS?) Earning your RPS. Map control analogy sure, but you now have Paper spawning on the map so obviously players want that. The trick being that, because there is no scissors, the paper weapons take center stage and are the focus of the matches.

Saying you spawn with RPSLS? What? Where does that match up? What trumps what? Surely there are a few in-game examples? Are you saying weapons are Rock, AAs are Paper and each other featre goes on to a different thing?

Why use such a clear metaphor so terribly?

If anything, Halo is a Mario game.

AR and the other lower tier weapons are your tiny Mario.

Find a mushroom. Boom. Movin' on up. That's your BR. Get killed from some shitty AR? Back to spawn as tiny Mario. AR starts was about finding that mushroom.

So say that we spawn as the bigger Mario. Running out of ammo is the only way we can go down a tier. Finding pwer weapons on the map would be finding the leaf or other power ups. Armour lock right away is the Star and that can fuck right off.

Imagining Mario as a competitive game where you must stand on the other Marios, you can see how the power ups only really counter the standard Mario and don't really trump each other in that regard. I think this is a far closer analogy to Halo than this RPS nonsense. That's assuming this analogy is mostly bad too.

I like the Mario analogy better, and sometimes you get handed a Tashi, I mean Toshi, I mean Yoshi. Of course that analogy isn't as packaged as well, so I guess RockPaperScissors works better from the marketing angle.

If we stick with the RPS, one other aspect that is ignored is that typically you can determine what the other guy is holding and if his paper beats your rock. Makes for a different flow for sure, but you get to decide how to attack an unknown situation, seems a lot of people just don't find that fun. Personally I don't find lag fun and if you want to talk about the outcome of a match being decided before the game starts I find that one a more onerous issue than almost anything else. But what is there to be done about it? not worth worrying about if you can find enjoyment in the games despite it.

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

This just in, nerds still waste their time modding cod 4 on consoles.

 

[wwm0nkey]

This just in, nerds still waste their time modding cod 4 on consoles.

Yup, tired to go back a year ago and its still in every single game.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I like the Mario analogy better, and sometimes you get handed a Tashi, I mean Toshi, I mean Yoshi. Of course that analogy isn't as packaged as well, so I guess RockPaperScissors works better from the marketing angle.

If we stick with the RPS, one other aspect that is ignored is that typically you can determine what the other guy is holding and if his paper beats your rock. Makes for a different flow for sure, but you get to decide how to attack an UNKNOWN situation, seems a lot of people just don't find that fun. Personally I don't find lag fun and if you want to talk about the outcome of a match being decided before the game starts I find that one a more onerous issue than almost anything else. But what is there to be done about it? not worth worrying about if you can find enjoyment in the games despite it.

iSpy with my little eye.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Ummmm wow, mute the volume but what can be done with modding forge resources is very impressive

(Its Yoyorast Island)

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The character models never react to the water splashing around them. And the glass is only being broken by the person running the simulation, though can itself possibly be handled as GPU particles in a situation like this (although I'm not convinced that it is, as there are a lot of times in the demo that glass gets hit by a foreceful-looking bunch of water without budging).


Hopefully more than they did this gen. Halo was ahead of the shooter pack, but there's a serious lack of water-focused games. Some of the coolest water systems in games are on sixth-gen hardware. We should be able to do a LOT more today.

Hopefully the answer isn't "screen space reflections on all the water." A lot of people seem to want that, even though it's artifacty as hell. I'm all for real-time reflections (HALO COMBAT EVOLVED YEEAAAAHH), but I have standards. :/

Recommend a closer look because the glass shattering IS affecting the water interactions e.g the second front right shot changes the whole flow by splitting in two outpours. Also the characters aren't animated or textured for demo reasons but look at the water drag in the wave ebb and flow.

This water is seriously interacting in real time with insane particle/pressure systems. HD it and big it up then pay close attention to those details. I think it's just what you're describing.

 

[Tawpgun]

Ummmm wow, mute the volume but what can be done with modding forge resources is very impressive

(Its Yoyorast Island)

Fuck gangam style

also, thats rad

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Ummmm wow, mute the volume but what can be done with modding forge resources is very impressive

(Its Yoyorast Island)

YOYORAST ISLAND!!! That map was so crazy. Practiced my warthog driving there lol.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I like the Mario analogy better, and sometimes you get handed a Tashi, I mean Toshi, I mean Yoshi. Of course that analogy isn't as packaged as well, so I guess RockPaperScissors works better from the marketing angle.

If we stick with the RPS, one other aspect that is ignored is that typically you can determine what the other guy is holding and if his paper beats your rock. Makes for a different flow for sure, but you get to decide how to attack an unknown situation, seems a lot of people just don't find that fun. Personally I don't find lag fun and if you want to talk about the outcome of a match being decided before the game starts I find that one a more onerous issue than almost anything else. But what is there to be done about it? not worth worrying about if you can find enjoyment in the games despite it.

Completely agree about latency affecting game outcomes the most.

Similarly I'd like to see a serious real time hardware compression/decompression networking IC in next gen Xbox. It wouldn't help latency but it would help throughput for coop game modes, interactive multiplayer elements and movie streaming or downloading.

I also dream about bandwidth aggregation at the console level or dedication via dual network ports on multiple ISP connections or my XBL Platinum BF3 style server platform. Alas they're complex and hard marketing sells thus being sidelined in the too hard or costly R&D basket.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Well this just happened. GG Sudds. lol

 

[Duji]

^nice. I'm assuming your bucket list just got that much shorter.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

There was a blackscreen. It gave me new ordnance drops and probably got rid of any overkill before it?

Yep blackscreen screws the game stats.

 

[Tunavi]

Well this just happened. GG Sudds. lol

cleansed.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Fucking love my 3DS. So tempted to get an XL...

 

[Obscured]

This game can blow me for all the stupid shit I faced in the two days it took to get this.

randies only

never edit

hgs

fuck this shit, I'm out

Catching up on the last few pages, but how many games did it take?

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Fucking love my 3DS. So tempted to get an XL...

Tryna sell it? ;]

 

[Garrett 2U]

This kid just tried boosting against me in doubles.
He went in with a guest and they just kept killing themselves, trying to get the game to end in a draw.
I put on Promethean Vision and was able to catch them off spawn and get a kill.
They immediately stopped killing themselves and attempted to fight back. But they were garbage so they just got stomped.
Here is the film... https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/.../details/5bb5dfa9-477b-4b76-944e-aefb4f6d02ea

Pathetic.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Fucking love my 3DS. So tempted to get an XL...

NoA has fucked up soooo bad on XL styles over here. I would have bought that Fire Emblem 3DS XL but only EU got that...we got a fucking regular edition of it :/

Im ready to trade up but NoA hates money.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Tryna sell it? ;]

Nah, there's just a good deal here for the XL @ 169. That with Luigi's Mansion 2 and you get a free game, too.

I was originally going to sell my 3DS to someone and buy the XL, but Nintendo still have convinced themselves that they make toys not software, so they have the most stone-age account migration system in the industry. Something we take for granted on Xbox I suppose.

NoA has fucked up soooo bad on XL styles over here. I would have bought that Fire Emblem 3DS XL but only EU got that...we got a fucking regular edition of it :/

Im ready to trade up but NoA hates money.

Part of me wants to wait on a possible Link to the Past 2 edition XL. This was pretty hot:

 

[Tashi]

Well this just happened. GG Sudds. lol

lol

 

[Plywood]

Catching up on the last few pages, but how many games did it take?

43

 

[HTupolev]

Recommend a closer look because the glass shattering IS affecting the water interactions e.g the second front right shot changes the whole flow by splitting in two outpours. Also the characters aren't animated or textured for demo reasons but look at the water drag in the wave ebb and flow.

This water is seriously interacting in real time with insane particle/pressure systems. HD it and big it up then pay close attention to those details. I think it's just what you're describing.

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. I'm not denying that the water is being affected by the geometry around it; it very obviously is. I'm saying that it's not reciprocal.

This is why I explained the Bloodwake example. The boat and the combat effects can affect the shape of the water, and these abberations in the water can affect the boat. It's a rough bidirectional interactivity, but it's bidirectional. In this demo, it's one-directional. Things around the water affect the GPU particles, but the GPU particles don't affect the things around them.

This isn't just a "the characters aren't animated for demo reasons" thing. It's the crux of the whole issue, and a big part of why GPU physics aren't used for a lot more than they are.