Halo |OT16| Oh Bungie, Where Art Thou?

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Izick said:
1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.
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No, nextgen Halo will not make a console an immediate buy just by existing. I would buy a console in order to play any one of Bungie's Halos, but 343i has not convinced me that the franchise is going to reorient itself in a direction I like.

If I only buy one console next-gen, right now I'm leaning more in the Sony direction.

2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?
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A lot of things about Destiny scare me, but I'm excited and presently giving Bungie the full benefit of the doubt. Even though I've been very disappointed about some things, all of the Bungie games I've played from Marathon through Reach have ultimately, I think, been damned good.

I'm not convinced that Destiny will be damned good, but I'm absolutely holding out hope for it.

Also, ODST has a hold on me, and it tells me I should be excited:

atpkPky.jpg
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No Cortana wasn't modeled after a porn star. I believe they used two models for her. Body model and face one apparently. But Dylan Ryder looks amazingly like her.

@izick

Halo:CE made me beg my parents to buy me an xbox right away. I needed to have the game and console. I saved up my birthday money for a gamecube, but had none for an xbox. So I had to forfeit my next year birthday money at the time.

1. No Halo will no longer make me purchase the new console outright. I've been disappointed with the direction of the franchise and while it is much better than when it launched, it's a meh for me. I play it everyday still though.

2. Yes I am excited like hell for Destiny. Every gamer should. When you have one of the premier studios in the industry work on a single game for over 4ish years, and you have them give up making Halo and making shitloads of money, there has to be a reason. So yes I'm excited and it's natural to think it'll be like Halo but I don't think it will be. Only after playing it or seeing more gameplay, will I make a choice whether or not it's something I'm interested in. I just don't have the time or ability to game like I used to. There are so many games I've missed this gen or have yet to play.
 
Madness said:
Oh, I misread once again. I thought like you wanted more woman representation in the game, and I wanted the main woman in there to die off. I can't believe they're making her the face of their new comic to try and gets fans and sympathy behind her. I bet they'll show she wasn't always a hard ass, that it was some dumb egghead scientist who cared more about the research and this in turn caused the death of her friend, and so he hates them now blah blah.
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I do want more female representation in games but good ones. I couldn't care less about her.
 
Izick said:
1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.

2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?
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Halo is the reason I bought the first Xbox and the Xbox 360, so one could expect that trend to continue. I'll always be a fan of those games, but I don't think [the current state of] Halo alone will be enough to sell me a console again. Destiny is actually what has me interested for next gen, and it's definitely because Bungie's making it. Yea Reach wasn't the greatest Halo, but they're still pretty good developers and Destiny has a lot of supposed features that are up my alley. I know a lot of the Bnet community members too, so I can't divorce them by leaving the Xbox entirely.

With all that said, I haven't been impressed with the nextbox's rumored features so far and it's the only thing that's making me reluctant.
 
Izick said:
I have a couple questions for the broader Halo community, that I personally find interesting. Might bore most of you, but I'm really curious.

Before I ask, let me preface it with this: I'm absolutely fascinated by communities like this that hover around a single game or franchise. I've been playing games for decades but I've never really gotten to the point where I've just been completely obsessed with a franchise. I really admire that kind of dedication, but for some reason I just like trying new things; not that you all don't, just that I'm the kind of guy who can't even play through a game a second time, even on a harder difficulty and some thrown in new stuff. I've played through all of the Halo games' single and multiplayer stuff (besides 4) and I really have enjoyed it, buy there always comes a time when I'm done with it.

After reading the quoted message in the OP (what an amazing read by the way; fascinating for someone who knows about the series but hasn't studied the minutia of each game over the years; great stuff), I've kind of come to finally get a grasp on the situation at hand, and that is Halo is currently on a downslope right now, with two iterations that were less than optimal, at least by most posters' standards within these official threads. Now this brings me to my questions:

1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.

2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?

I appreciate any and all responses.
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I loved Reach and played the shit out of it. I still play Halo 4. I can't really answer that first question from the perspective you're looking for. I intend to get all the Next Gen consoles.

And yea, I'm pumped for Destiny. Should be an awesome game. A large reason I'm excited is because it's made by Bungie but I do think it looks like it's going to be a really fun game.
 
Izick said:
1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.

2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?

I appreciate any and all responses.
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With Reach I've always said it's a good game, but a bad Halo game. I enjoyed it, played 2000+ matches, and still play it some today. Halo 4 was a total disappointment and I don't like 343's vision of Halo. Based on Halo 4 the only Halo game they could release right now that I would buy is Halo 2 HD. So no, at this point, Halo is no longer a system seller for me. I still might buy a Durango depending on it's lineup outside of Halo, but if I don't like it I'll go PS4.

I'm excited for Destiny because it's from Bungie and I'm not expecting Halo Combat Evolved 2. I know it will be different, I know it won't feel like Halo, but I know it will be fun because Jason Jones is back in charge(H3 and Reach weren't what they could have been without him). I also like the idea of an MMO-lite shooter you can play with your friends. I don't have time to play competitive shooters hardcore anymore so something that I can pickup and play on my time will be great. I am interested to see what they do with PvP though.
 
Izick said:
I have a couple questions for the broader Halo community, that I personally find interesting. Might bore most of you, but I'm really curious.

Before I ask, let me preface it with this: I'm absolutely fascinated by communities like this that hover around a single game or franchise. I've been playing games for decades but I've never really gotten to the point where I've just been completely obsessed with a franchise. I really admire that kind of dedication, but for some reason I just like trying new things; not that you all don't, just that I'm the kind of guy who can't even play through a game a second time, even on a harder difficulty and some thrown in new stuff. I've played through all of the Halo games' single and multiplayer stuff (besides 4) and I really have enjoyed it, buy there always comes a time when I'm done with it.

After reading the quoted message in the OP (what an amazing read by the way; fascinating for someone who knows about the series but hasn't studied the minutia of each game over the years; great stuff), I've kind of come to finally get a grasp on the situation at hand, and that is Halo is currently on a downslope right now, with two iterations that were less than optimal, at least by most posters' standards within these official threads. Now this brings me to my questions:

1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.

2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?

I appreciate any and all responses.
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1. No.

2. No.
 
Izick said:
1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.
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At this point I doubt I'll ever get another Halo game again, unless they port 3 or ODST to PC. So no, while it was a major contributing factor for me getting a 360, the series no longer has any pull for me getting new hardware.

Izick said:
2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?
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I expect it to be nothing like Halo and I'm hopeful for it. I've liked their stuff from Marathon to Myth to Oni to Halo, so I have no reason to doubt them bringing on something new.
 
Thanks for the answers! (Please feel free to answer that original post more for those who haven't.)

I have one more multi-layered question to ask if you'd all kindly indulge:

Now, I don't want to offend anyone here because I know a lot of you love this series dearly, but I'll try to be to the point on this. Do you think a lot of the reasons that the numbers have been dropping off so much, especially after launch is because Halo has been usurped by Call of Duty as of right now? Maybe not in gameplay, but just in terms of how much of a cultural phenomenon the series has become? Do you think maybe it's a little bit understandable to see people drop out a little more frequently when all their friends are playing the new hot franchise of the moment? Maybe some check-up on it because they've enjoyed the series, but after a while they're back on their usual Call of Duty fix.

I ask this because this is what Halo was back during Halo: CE through 3. Those games each had these revolutionary ideas and features that managed to capture the mass market's attention and never let go until the next iteration. Call of Duty seems to be that right now, but the only difference (this is just my own personal opinion; even morose than the other stuff) I see is that I don't think Call of Duty will last as long as Halo does, at least not in terms of being a huge franchise. With that said, isn't it understandable to see a lot more people drop out when there is a bigger game in town? Especially when we're talking about games that reach the mass market in a big way?

(Also, the reason I ask you all here is because asking someone like myself who's semi-detached from it is boring. I'm more interested in the opinion of people who've been with the series through the highs, lows, and everything in between. Been with it to the point where you could consider it to be, or have been, a major part of your life.)

Deadly Cyclone said:
Out celebrating my 27th. Cheers to HaloGaf!
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Happy birthday!
 
Also, with Destiny, I CAN'T WAIT. I'm so excited for Destiny, gonna be amazing. Game is gonna make me love gaming again. Going to be the game that makes me appreciate the industry again. I'm going to be playing that for the next 10 years.
 
Izick said:
Do you think a lot of the reasons that the numbers have been dropping off so much, especially after launch is because Halo has been usurped by Call of Duty as of right now? Maybe not in gameplay, but just in terms of how much of a cultural phenomenon the series has become? Do you think maybe it's a little bit understandable to see people drop out a little more frequently when all their friends are playing the new hot franchise of the moment?
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That's the thing. We'll never know because Reach and Halo 4 changed up the series too drastically to actually see the real reason. All I'm going to say is that Counter-Strike has hardly changed and look at their numbers. If Reach and 4 stayed trued to the principles of arena gameplay and everyone starting on an equal playing field with quality maps and it wasn't popular, then yes, it's no one's fault but time itself, but that's not the case.
 
Izick said:
Now, I don't want to offend anyone here because I know a lot of you love this series dearly, but I'll try to be to the point on this. Do you think a lot of the reasons that the numbers have been dropping off so much, especially after launch is because Halo has been usurped by Call of Duty as of right now? Maybe not in gameplay, but just in terms of how much of a cultural phenomenon the series has become? Do you think maybe it's a little bit understandable to see people drop out a little more frequently when all their friends are playing the new hot franchise of the moment? Maybe some check-up on it because they've enjoyed the series, but after a while they're back on their usual Call of Duty fix.
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I think CoD cannibalization is one reason, but also because the games from the last 3 years have had a myriad of questionable design choices.

EagleBurnn said:
That's the thing. We'll never know because Reach and Halo 4 changed up the series too drastically to actually see the real reason. All I'm going to say is that Counter-Strike has hardly changed and look at their numbers. If Reach and 4 stayed trued to the principles of arena gameplay and everyone starting on an equal playing field with quality maps and it wasn't popular, then yes, it's no one's fault but time itself, but that's not the case.
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Yeah, it's not that we ever saw a traditional Halo game fall off in this way, just that it was a foregone conclusion that the design had to "evolve" into the terrible bastardization we find ourselves with now to survive. I think this series is going the Mortal Kombat, having a solid trilogy (and expansion) then followed by terrible entry after terrible entry until they realized that people just wanted the real deal.
 
Izick said:
1.) If you are a Halo fan, but have been disappointed with Reach and (more importantly) Halo 4, will the eventual new Halo game instantly make you buy the next Microsoft console? I know there will be some that have the means to buy both the PS4 and Nextbox, maybe buying the latter sometime down the line when Halo 5 launches, but in reality most people can't justify dropping 800$ to a grand on consoles alone.

2.) As Bungie fans by nature, are you excited for Destiny, even though it seems to be a completely different beast (in most ways) than the Halo games? Are you excited just because it's made by Bungie? Are you excited just because it looks interesting (so far) on its own merits? Combination of those?

I appreciate any and all responses.
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1) I think I'm done buying consoles sight unseen because of Halo alone. I still play it fairly frequently and write way too much about it, but I don't know that I can stay passionate about it when I don't really like the direction it's going in. They'd have to say all the right things leading up to H5 (and I'm gonna need specifics this time, "Don't worry, it feels like Halo" broke that trust) to make me as invested in it as I was before - I wouldn't be surprised if the number of words I've written about Halo design here on GAF in the last five years numbered in the hundreds of thousands. I'm still interested in where the story goes from here, so I'll still be playing it and probably continuing to write about it, but it can't be the only thing that supports an entire console like Halo did for me (since I moved to PC for multiplatform stuff for the most part, and Microsoft's first party catalog...ehh).

2) I'm absolutely excited by Destiny. I never understand why people say "you know it's not going to be like Halo, right?" because that's completely beside the point. I love the way Bungie builds worlds, and I haven't played a series they've created that hasn't completely sucked me in and made me invested in their universes. Reading the Marathon terminals, stepping out onto Halo...I was really excited by the idea of a Dyson Sphere, but Requiem was, by comparison, almost pedestrian in how...un-alien it ended up being. What little we know of Destiny as an actual game, especially in terms of structure and social hooks, looks fresh and exciting and new, and frankly the route Bungie was taking (with equipment, armor abilities, etc) always made more sense to me in PvE settings where you could define your playstyle without having to worry about the impact on match flow and balance against other players. More importantly, I think it'll create the same kind of atmosphere that Halo 2 did for me, or that something like World of Warcraft did for a lot of people, where you and your friends get on night after night because there's always more to do and see.

Izick said:
Now, I don't want to offend anyone here because I know a lot of you love this series dearly, but I'll try to be to the point on this. Do you think a lot of the reasons that the numbers have been dropping off so much, especially after launch is because Halo has been usurped by Call of Duty as of right now? Maybe not in gameplay, but just in terms of how much of a cultural phenomenon the series has become? Do you think maybe it's a little bit understandable to see people drop out a little more frequently when all their friends are playing the new hot franchise of the moment? Maybe some check-up on it because they've enjoyed the series, but after a while they're back on their usual Call of Duty fix.
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Yeah, Halo's not the big thing anymore. To some extent, I don't really care why the numbers are dropping off - they tried to capture an audience that was never going to convert, failed at doing so, and alienated a lot of people who would have otherwise stuck with Halo through thick and thin in the process. My real concern isn't why the people they tried to get weren't happy enough to stick around, but really whether or not they're keeping the players who are dedicated enough to stay with it happy.
 
izick

We won't know the difference, Halo:CE, 2 and 3 had some pretty big differences in how the game played, but the principal arena shooter, equal starts feeling remained the same.

Whether it was a 1v1 match on prisoner, 4v4 Midship or 8v8 Sandtrap etc. You knew how the game played, there was very little random elements throw in. If you lost, it was your fault.

Then comes Reach. You get bloom where theoretically the better man doesn't necessarily win. You get unequal starts and armor abilities that break a large portion of the sandbox. Camo at will+sniper is easy kills, armor lock was the worst thing ever conceived in a Halo game. Jetpack completely ruined any semblance of map design. No longer were fights purposely set up for certain areas etc. You want the sword on the top in countdown, forget hoofing it up the stairs or using the grav lifts, when you can jetpack up in seconds.

Halo 4 takes it even further. Now you have even more randomness thrown in. Why even fight for weapons when you can call them down at your feet. Map control is thrown out the window because of random weapon spawns that no one knows what or when a weapon will appear. What about the poor sap who was waiting in an area a splaser spawned only to now see a concussion rifle.

How fair is it to the guy who gets an overkill and a killing spree to get the ability to use a needler, Plasma grenades or speed boost, but the camper who got a vehicle assist and is playing like shit gets rockets or binary rifle etc.

Additionally for the first time ever, you've got a Halo game where people who paid money for snacks, could start off stronger or better than someone who didn't. Some people who scammed doritos bags and took pictures got 200 matches of double xp and unlocked perks and weapons well before others. In a DMR heavy game, a perk like no flinch when shot ie stability is a game changer.

Plus they took the loadout system from Reach even further. It's not just armor abilities that start people differently, but dozens of new variables. The guy who has grenadier and explosives can easily spam grenades and get double kills or triple kills with a large group. The guy who picks plasma pistol and plasma grenades completely destroys any vehicle on the map easily. The guy who takes dexterity can win duels because he can reload faster, the guy who picks ammo can dominate with power weapons since he gets like double or triple the ammo.

It's hard to say whether it's Call of Duty or Halo fatigue, I think Reach and Halo 4 have done more damage and fatigue to the series than anything else. So many longtime fans, fans who've literally played some form of Halo almost everyday for almost 12+ years are abandoning the series, they're stopping posting on forums, they're having giveaways of their stuff etc.

Another reason was ranks. I'm not a pro player, I have a fraction of the skill I had with CE or 2 now, but I wanted ranks from day one. You want a reason to keep playing. To invest in the game. If I'm a lowly 35 I want to know that, so I know where I stand. It's like studying for a test, writing it and then never finding it what you got.

Do I think Call of duty would have eventually surpassed Halo? Yes. Did I think Halo would be #5 on the XBL most played list and dropping this quickly, No.
 
monsterfracas said:
All you dudes wanting to play Halo 3: add me if you want. GT's same as my GAF name.

P.S. Halo 3 is awesome, suck it
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I just saw a stream of it, dear god it was embarrassing. Lag everywhere, BR didnt do shit, nothing made sense visually, everything was like slow motion. The dude shot the missile pod directly at his teammate standing right in front of him not moving and it went through him. Hilarious stuff, nades stuck to the ground instead of bouncing or bounced backwards at the player who just threw it. Then of course black screen and they got host booted.

I just cant. That game is bad.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
I just saw a stream of it, dear god it was embarrassing. Lag everywhere, BR didnt do shit, nothing made sense visually, everything was like slow motion. The dude shot the missile pod directly at his teammate standing right in front of him not moving and it went through him. Hilarious stuff, nades stuck to the ground instead of bouncing or bounced backwards at the player who just threw it. Then of course black screen and they got host booted.

I just cant. That game is bad.
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But would you with Halo 4 BR, Halo 2 (or 1) movement speeds, modern netcode, and no crazy glitches?
 
xxjuicesxx said:
I just saw a stream of it, dear god it was embarrassing. Lag everywhere, BR didnt do shit, nothing made sense visually, everything was like slow motion. The dude shot the missile pod directly at his teammate standing right in front of him not moving and it went through him. Hilarious stuff, nades stuck to the ground instead of bouncing or bounced backwards at the player who just threw it. Then of course black screen and they got host booted.

I just cant. That game is bad.
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I agree, the netcode is trash. That's my main issue, along with the BR not being hitscan and the AR+melee combo.

Everything else though...I love it. On LAN it's like my perfect game. I feel the sandbox is the best in any Halo; even dual wielding. Most weapons serve a niche, with no dominant weapon that you feel weak without.

I don't know how people here feel about equipment, but I felt it was a great tweak to the Halo formula. It made combat more dynamic, and felt fresh. It didn't intrude on the core of Halo like AAs. It allowed for some unique situations, yet altered the game in a favorable way, similar to any power weapon.

I even liked the floaty jumping. Halo 3's strafe is godly, too.
 
DJ Ghazi said:
But would you with Halo 4 BR, Halo 2 (or 1) movement speeds, modern netcode, and no crazy glitches?
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With better or classic maps and a higher framerate, yea.

At one time it was a good FPS for the Xbox console, it just isn't anymore in my opinion and for the reasons I listed.
 
In future games, would you rather play as a Spartan II or a Spartan III/IV?

Spartan-IIs don't rely on armor abilities, sprinting or perks but have aiming and and movement that can feel floaty or like you've been dunked in a jar of molasses.

Spartan-IIIs and IVs rely extensively on AAs, Sprint, Armor Mods and Personal Ordnance but have much more swift, heavy-set and manageable movement and aiming functionality.
 
Wahrer said:
In future games, would you rather play as a Spartan II or a Spartan III/IV?

Spartan-IIs don't rely on armor abilities, sprinting or perks but have aiming and and movement that can feel floaty or like you've been dunked in a jar of molasses.

Spartan-IIIs and IVs rely extensively on AAs, Sprint, Armor Mods and Personal Ordnance but have much more swift, heavy-set and manageable movement and aiming functionality.
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I don't give a shit about canon in MP.

I don't think anyone ever did.
 
Wahrer said:
In future games, would you rather play as a Spartan II or a Spartan III/IV?

Spartan-IIs don't rely on armor abilities, sprinting or perks but have aiming and and movement that can feel floaty or like you've been dunked in a jar of molasses.

Spartan-IIIs and IVs rely extensively on AAs, Sprint, Armor Mods and Personal Ordnance but have much more swift, heavy-set and manageable movement and aiming functionality.
Click to expand...
Most games featuring Spartan-II's have way better movement than Reach and 4, and very good aiming.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
With better or classic maps and a higher framerate, yea.

At one time it was a good FPS for the Xbox console, it just isn't anymore in my opinion and for the reasons I listed.
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THose would definitely help, more so the maps than the framerate but it's still helpful to have 60 FPS. Once you've experienced something better than what you're given it's difficult to go back (or forward at times) if the new thing you've been given is worse in certain things (maps and game mechanics) about it. Maps are a key factor that can make or break your game, Halo 1-2 had great map selections and even though you guys may disagree I thought 3 had a fair amount of great maps too (including the remakes). But I think it's biggest issue with age like you said, I mean in 2007 standards (and technical skill) were certainly different or worse. Again, back in 2007 the netcode wasn't considered that shitty by most standards and overall it was a very solid game compared to most games in that time period. of course CoD4 came out and the rest is history.

edit: oops, I didn't realize that it's been so long since his reply.
 
Yea Halo 3 had some decent maps. Especially Heretic n Pit, but the whole voting system led to some rough games you didnt want to play. So more often than not I was playing some garbage like Sandtrap or Foundry with AR starts.
 
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