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[The P of Poland]

You know Halo 4 was bad when people have gone back to Reach and Armor Lock.

 

[FyreWulff]

Don't you even

It's too bad the Reach updates ended out of nowhere, I had an update ready to go that calmed down the map a lot more while still feeling heavy (like lasers and gauss being on delayed start 1 1/2 minute spawns)

oh well

Spoiler

Also, I still don't understand why Heavies was weighted so heavily. The way it was presented, it was going to be more of a second voting screen option than push objective out of slot 2..

 

[xxjuicesxx]

The problem was, well you may pace, the guy you're in a gun fight with might not be pacing, and spamming, and bloom might give him the kill by luck even though you're the one playing skillfully.

That's why Bloom was trash.

Statistically the spammer may win a few times but in the end the pacers will come out ahead.

Yes it was garbage though. I agree.

 

[Havok]

Castle DLC was a better playlist when it was 4v4.

At least we can all agree that, even with bloom and AAs, Reach BTB was a million times more fun than 4's. Competitive wise Throwdown is a much better playlist than Reach's Arena.

I don't really think Arena is the right comparison point. Throwdown is basically what the MLG playlists were, where the settings and changes are largely dictated by the community/an outside entity. I think Reach MLG is on much more even ground with Throwdown.

 

[Plywood]

So CSR is a joke? #shocker

I had to play a game to get a 1 before I could actually get ranked.

ALL THIS WORK!

 

[ExigentContact]

Seems like Halo 3's netcode really falls apart somewhere between 4v4 and 8v8. Team slayer in Halo 3 feels great most of the time, but big team is always pretty far in the sloppy region.

But yeah, it's awesome. Except for heavies. Heavies was bad for big team in Halo 3 as well.

I think Heavies is primarily appealing when you're in the right mood. It's chaotic, unbalanced, and can be hell on the netcode, but if you can live with that it's actually pretty fun. I feel that it was unenjoyable in Halo 3 because the game's netcoding, and mostly unejoyable in Halo: Reach due to a poor selection of maps. But that's only my opinion. I recognize that it isn't really the norm. I look at it like BTB's answer to Action Sack, only in the playlist it's acting as the alternative to. Certainly most competitive players would absolutely hate seeing something like Dino Blasters or Grifball in Team Slayer, so I can see the reasons why people dislike it.

I have to wonder why Halo's netcode has been so poor, comparatively speaking. Other games have bumped up into 24-32 without severe connection issues for the most part, but Halo has this tendency to start to creak at about 12 or more even if the connections are average-to-good.

 

[Gui_PT]

Thanks guys, cheevos dun

Let me know if anyone else wants to get them

 

[Tawpgun]

cry...cry...cry.

That's the correct pacing! You're getting better!

I think Heavies is primarily appealing when you're in the right mood. It's chaotic, unbalanced, and can be hell on the netcode, but if you can live with that it's actually pretty fun. I feel that it was unenjoyable in Halo 3 because the game's netcoding, and mostly unejoyable in Halo: Reach due to a poor selection of maps. But that's only my opinion. I recognize that it isn't really the norm. I look at it like BTB's answer to Action Sack, only in the playlist it's acting as the alternative to. Certainly most competitive players would absolutely hate seeing something like Dino Blasters or Grifball in Team Slayer, so I can see the reasons why people dislike it.

I have to wonder why Halo's netcode has been so poor, comparatively speaking. Other games have bumped up into 24-32 without severe connection issues for the most part, but Halo has this tendency to start to creak at about 12 or more even if the connections are average-to-good.

If you like Heavies so much why aren't you in love with Halo 4 BTB? Thats Heavies by design.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I wonder how much better bloom would've turned out if every headshot did more damage. 5sk to 3sk if all headshots, with a more pronounced flash on the head on successive shielded headshot? I mean that would still be unlike Halo, but it would make for a more cohesive implementation of bloom IMO, making every shot worth pacing.

Then again I like to imagine a world where Reach never existed. Bungie would've been sent off on a bang with ODST, 343 might not have felt like they were "splitting" anything with Anniversary and included multiplayer, no AAs or DMR in 4.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Confession: I loved the hell out of Heavies Cragmire. Might not be purist Halo, but I don't really want purist Halo when jumping into BTB. I just love the crazy shit that happens and Heavies is the best outlet for that.

Now I wanna play Reach.

But yeah, Halo 4's base competitive settings are better than Arena. Arena had a lot more potential, though. Could have been done so much better. I think a combined permanent number rank and constantly shifting monthly tiers would have worked for Arena.

RIP


-EDIT-

RIP to F-Zero and the Falcon.

And Captain Falcon in Brawl.

:'[

 

[HTupolev]

RIP

RIP to F-Zero and the Falcon.

 

[ExigentContact]

If you like Heavies so much why aren't you in love with Halo 4 BTB? Thats Heavies by design.

Halo 4 just isn't fun for me at all. The addition of Personal Ordnance also removes the tiny specks of strategy that Heavies retained in the first place. Without at least that skeleton holding it in place, Heavies gets really mushy really fast. And I've said that I enjoy Heavies in the same way I enjoy Action Sack. I don't want Action Sack as my main game portion, merely a side attraction to a bigger meal. That's probably the bigger reason I don't like Halo 4 as a whole. It feels like Action Sack all the time when I used that playlist and modes like it as a palette cleanser.

I won't disagree that Heavies was weighted far too heavily in BTB.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Halo 2 arena maps + Halo 3 BTB + ODST Firefight = Halo 5

I just saved Halo.

+ Halo 4 forge (with precision and good maps of course). Cuz you know, it's notbad.jpg. Needs more rocks and covie stuff though.

The lack of covie stuff in Halo 4 MM is depressing.

Seems like Halo 3's netcode really falls apart somewhere between 4v4 and 8v8. Team slayer in Halo 3 feels great most of the time, but big team is always pretty far in the sloppy region.

But yeah, it's awesome. Except for heavies. Heavies was bad for big team in Halo 3 as well.

There are few maps that can work with 'heavy' variants. Generally speaking, each one has its sweet spot with balance, and changing that will ruin it.

 

[BigShow36]

The trick is to pace your shots. Its actually not so bad.

Here's a post I wrote on bloom in Reach a while back and why I hate it in any form in Halo games.

"One of the most palpable and controversial additions to Halo Reach has been precision weapon bloom. As your rate of fire increases, the deviation of your bullet trajectory also increases. To understand why this is problematic, we need to first understand what the role of a precision weapon is.

Precision weapons have one function that is inherent to their very nature; they are supposed to provide the player with a reliable weapon that demands and rewards accuracy. Bloom is the antithesis to both of these tenets; it reduces reliability and reduces accuracy.

But! You may scream; the weapon is perfectly accurate and reliable when you control the bloom. I agree, however, there is one major problem; shooting while bloomed does not ensure you will miss. In fact, shooting with slight bloom is preferable the majority of the time due to the rate of fire benefits. Suddenly, our precision weapon has neither precision nor reliability when used most effectively. At that point, it is not longer a precision weapon but it still rewards headshots, which are now almost completely random. The outcome of two players aiming exactly the same and shooting exactly the same is random, which is unacceptable for precision weapons.

The role of bloom is to punish players for missing shots and spamming the trigger. The more you miss and spam, the less accurate your gun becomes. While this is a decent principle in general, it requires weapons that can kill quickly to operate properly. In Reach, bloom doesn’t just punish missed shots, it punishes everyone because it is literally impossible to kill someone with the DMR or Pistol before bloom becomes a factor. What this means is that in every 1v1 encounter, bloom is going to be the determining factor; you either spam your shots and play the odds, or you pace your shots and risk the other player’s odds. Either way, chance is what determines the outcome.

When bloom is applied to weapons that kill rapidly, like in Call of Duty or even the Reach sniper rifle, it begins to make sense. Accurate players can kill enemies before bloom becomes a factor. Players who miss shots get punished with bloom. When bloom is applied to precision weapons that kill slowly, like the DMR and Pistol, it doesn’t work because every player, regardless of accuracy, is punished with bloom.

With such lengthy kill times and bloom playing such a central role, many players have fallen back on the argument that “controlling” bloom is a skill. Controlling the bloom is not so much a skill as it is a risk assessment and risk tolerance test; essentially risk management of a randomize outcome. A “skill” implies that you can increase your aptitude with experience and practice, which is simply not the case with bloom. Because of the inverse relationship between accuracy and rate of fire, you will never be able to rely on non-random elements in a firefight. As I pointed out earlier, even if you pace your shots completely, the enemy may choose to spam: chance enters the equation. Unless both players begin shooting at the exact same moment, it will always be beneficial for one player to spam.

There is no “perfect” bloom level that a player can fully rely on; if you choose to shoot at a medium pace to marginalize the effects of bloom, someone could choose to shoot at a rapid pace and beat you. There is nothing you can do to change that. That is not skill, its accepting a certain amount of randomization. That is never good for a competitive title and is unacceptable for the primary utility weapon.

Regardless, let’s pretend it is a skill. Does that mean that the skill value of controlling bloom is greater than the skill of controlling precision shots? The punishment for mismanaging bloom is not as severe as it is for missing a shot; mismanaged bloom, no matter how extreme, still gives the player a chance to win the fight. Missing a shot with a true precision weapon leaves no chance in the equation. If controlling bloom is a skill, it’s a secondary skill at best because you can never master it to such a degree that you can fully rely on it.

Not only does bloom destroy the basic function of Reach’s precision weapons, it encourages players to bring random chance into every battle. While bloom isn’t inherently unacceptable, it is when you combine it with the kill speed of the DMR and Pistol. Random chance should never be a fundamental aspect of Halo’s utility weapon, and removing bloom is the only acceptable solution for Reach to regain some competitive merit."

 

[willow ve]

I wonder how much better bloom would've turned out if every headshot did more damage. 5sk to 3sk if all headshots, with a more pronounced flash on the head on successive shielded headshot? I mean that would still be unlike Halo, but it would make for a more cohesive implementation of bloom IMO, making every shot worth pacing.

How would bloom perform on Dedicated Servers?

 

[MaximumFlipFlop]

Here's a post I wrote on bloom in Reach a while back and why I hate it in any form in Halo games.

"One of the most palpable and controversial additions to Halo Reach has been precision weapon bloom. As your rate of fire increases, the deviation of your bullet trajectory also increases. To understand why this is problematic, we need to first understand what the role of a precision weapon is.

Precision weapons have one function that is inherent to their very nature; they are supposed to provide the player with a reliable weapon that demands and rewards accuracy. Bloom is the antithesis to both of these tenets; it reduces reliability and reduces accuracy.

But! You may scream; the weapon is perfectly accurate and reliable when you control the bloom. I agree, however, there is one major problem; shooting while bloomed does not ensure you will miss. In fact, shooting with slight bloom is preferable the majority of the time due to the rate of fire benefits. Suddenly, our precision weapon has neither precision nor reliability when used most effectively. At that point, it is not longer a precision weapon but it still rewards headshots, which are now almost completely random. The outcome of two players aiming exactly the same and shooting exactly the same is random, which is unacceptable for precision weapons.

The role of bloom is to punish players for missing shots and spamming the trigger. The more you miss and spam, the less accurate your gun becomes. While this is a decent principle in general, it requires weapons that can kill quickly to operate properly. In Reach, bloom doesn’t just punish missed shots, it punishes everyone because it is literally impossible to kill someone with the DMR or Pistol before bloom becomes a factor. What this means is that in every 1v1 encounter, bloom is going to be the determining factor; you either spam your shots and play the odds, or you pace your shots and risk the other player’s odds. Either way, chance is what determines the outcome.

When bloom is applied to weapons that kill rapidly, like in Call of Duty or even the Reach sniper rifle, it begins to make sense. Accurate players can kill enemies before bloom becomes a factor. Players who miss shots get punished with bloom. When bloom is applied to precision weapons that kill slowly, like the DMR and Pistol, it doesn’t work because every player, regardless of accuracy, is punished with bloom.

With such lengthy kill times and bloom playing such a central role, many players have fallen back on the argument that “controlling” bloom is a skill. Controlling the bloom is not so much a skill as it is a risk assessment and risk tolerance test; essentially risk management of a randomize outcome. A “skill” implies that you can increase your aptitude with experience and practice, which is simply not the case with bloom. Because of the inverse relationship between accuracy and rate of fire, you will never be able to rely on non-random elements in a firefight. As I pointed out earlier, even if you pace your shots completely, the enemy may choose to spam: chance enters the equation. Unless both players begin shooting at the exact same moment, it will always be beneficial for one player to spam.

There is no “perfect” bloom level that a player can fully rely on; if you choose to shoot at a medium pace to marginalize the effects of bloom, someone could choose to shoot at a rapid pace and beat you. There is nothing you can do to change that. That is not skill, its accepting a certain amount of randomization. That is never good for a competitive title and is unacceptable for the primary utility weapon.

Regardless, let’s pretend it is a skill. Does that mean that the skill value of controlling bloom is greater than the skill of controlling precision shots? The punishment for mismanaging bloom is not as severe as it is for missing a shot; mismanaged bloom, no matter how extreme, still gives the player a chance to win the fight. Missing a shot with a true precision weapon leaves no chance in the equation. If controlling bloom is a skill, it’s a secondary skill at best because you can never master it to such a degree that you can fully rely on it.

Not only does bloom destroy the basic function of Reach’s precision weapons, it encourages players to bring random chance into every battle. While bloom isn’t inherently unacceptable, it is when you combine it with the kill speed of the DMR and Pistol. Random chance should never be a fundamental aspect of Halo’s utility weapon, and removing bloom is the only acceptable solution for Reach to regain some competitive merit."

Damn, that's good.

 

[Madness]

I find there are far more problems with Halo 4 than there were with Reach. Bloom was horrendous, but it was the only thing saving you from being killed where you stood with the slow movement.

People like to make a big deal out of spam vs. bloom, but 90% of the time, pacing my shots made me win the duel. It's still a shit mechanic.

I don't know, there are far and few times I'm actually having fun with Halo 4 as opposed to getting angry, never with Reach. If I had a good team in Team Slayer, or swat, or snipers, I could play reach all day and call it a night. With Halo 4, the game leaves me angry. The only fun I have is perhaps throwdown, doubles, multi-team now, swat, and possibly flood but lag and JiP really hamper it.

EDIT: Can anyone have imagined Halo 4 would cause people to reminisce about Reach and title the OT's "Bungie Where Art Thou?"

 

[Gui_PT]

We have just played the first match that defines the future of Halo

343 hire Wahrer

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I haven't been doing all that well but I don't think my team has lost yet.
http://www.twitch.tv/deadlycyclone/new

 

[Twilight Gap]

I don't get mad at Halo 4. Maybe it's because I used up all my mad on Reach. Maybe it's just apathy. It definitely has its share of issues, but I just can't seem to find energy for them.

 

[ExigentContact]

I find there are far more problems with Halo 4 than there were with Reach. Bloom was horrendous, but it was the only thing saving you from being killed where you stood with the slow movement.

People like to make a big deal out of spam vs. bloom, but 90% of the time, pacing my shots made me win the duel. It's still a shit mechanic.

I don't know, there are far and few times I'm actually having fun with Halo 4 as opposed to getting angry, never with Reach. If I had a good team in Team Slayer, or swat, or snipers, I could play reach all day and call it a night. With Halo 4, the game leaves me angry. The only fun I have is perhaps throwdown, doubles, multi-team now, swat, and possibly flood but lag and JiP really hamper it.

That's my experience with Halo: Reach and Halo 4, as well. I could live with Reach despite the bullshit.

I got angry at Halo 4. My first match was a loss because of JiP. I kept getting sniped by Camo campers on Ragnarok. Personal Ordnance was/is a fucked up system. Blah blah blah. Eventually I just started laughing as I played. But unlike Heavies on Cragmire, I never broke through to the other end and started having fun. It was amusing to see 343's changes after the anger subsided, but instead of coming to accept them, I just got bored and moved on.

I have literally no desire to play Halo 4 at all now. I still like to peck at Reach.

 

[Tashi]

We have just played the first match that defines the future of Halo

343 hire Wahrer

RIP Halo

 

[HiredN00bs]

Ugh. I can't play Reach. No matter the issues with 4, Reach was worse.

Try to imagine what it's like for someone like me to read this.

 

[Homeboyd]

Try to imagine what it's like for someone like me to read this.

lol go on....

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Shooting fully bloomed 7/10 shots land below the halfway mark. So your aimer should be pretty high up on the head so they always head downwards to their head.

Also do three body shots quick wait til full bloom reset and then shoot two spammed at the head for the kill, bloom doesnt seem to kick in that much until after the second spam shot. Its probably the easiest and quickest cadence.

 

[Twilight Gap]

•Bloom (other than for visual effect)
•Spawning with Anti-Vehicle weapons (outside of special gametypes like Invasion)
•Random power weapon spawns
•Flinch
•Most AAs
•Default Sprint
•Perks
•Killstreaks
•Killcams
•Instant Spawn

Feel free to add

 

[JackHerer]

Reach is better than Halo 4. I've finally admitted this to myself. Infinity Slayer, the flagship mode of Halo 4, is absolute, utter, garbage.

On competitive level, Reach is better. Reach MLG > Halo 4 throwdown settings.

Halo 4 competitive settings might have a chance to be better if the sniper rifle wasn't a complete joke and flinch was removed and descoping returned. Sadly these things will stay this way and Halo 4 will remain as the worst Halo game ever made (until Halo 5 gets made lolololol).

I'm bitter after playing this game for a few hours. I think I need to take an extended break from Halo.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Try to imagine what it's like for someone like me to read this.

Is Reach your favorite Halo game? I'm sorry. I preferred 2.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Reach is better than Halo 4. I've finally admitted this to myself. Infinity Slayer, the flagship mode of Halo 4, is absolute, utter, garbage.

On competitive level, Reach is better. Reach MLG > Halo 4 throwdown settings.

Halo 4 competitive settings might have a chance to be better if the sniper rifle wasn't a complete joke and flinch was removed and descoping returned.

Halo 4 has more competitive potential than Reach had. It has tighter gunplay mechanics and smoother movement.

Unfortunately, it will never be fully realized.

 

[JackHerer]

Halo 4 has more competitive potential than Reach had. It has tighter gunplay mechanics and smoother movement.

Unfortunately, it will never be fully realized.

Yep. It could be better (than Reach) but it has some major flaws holding it back. It's a low point for this franchise and I really hope that Halo 5 is vastly superior or Halo will be pretty much dead to me.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Is Reach your favorite Halo game? I'm sorry. I preferred 2.

2 was a buggy mess. Kinda like 4.

 

[ExigentContact]

•Bloom (other than for visual effect)
•Spawning with Anti-Vehicle weapons (outside of special gametypes like Invasion)
•Random power weapon spawns
•Flinch
•Most AAs
•Default Sprint
•Perks
•Killstreaks
•Killcams
•Instant Spawn

Feel free to add

•JOIN IN PROGRESS

 

[Tashi]

http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii/new

Streaming my CSR grind to 50. Stream will be updated with current level and win/loss record. Going in alone.

 

[CyReN]

http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii/new

Streaming my CSR grind to 50. Stream will be updated with current level and win/loss record. Going in alone.

so brave.

 

[Syphon Filter]

2 was a buggy mess. Kinda like 4.

That is overblown, Halo 2 was incredible.

 

[ExigentContact]

2 was a buggy mess. Kinda like 4.

4 isn't buggy so much as it is a mess.

Halo 2 was held back by severe technical screw-ups and an overreliance on aim magnetism (the weapon sandbox was pretty warped in terms of balance, too), but overall it came together much better than Halo 4. Its maps are also the best in the series. Halo 4's are just bad.

Still, it's probably my least favorite of the Bungie-made Halo games, which would have me lynched in most Halo communities.

 

[JackHerer]

•Bloom (other than for visual effect)
•Spawning with Anti-Vehicle weapons (outside of special gametypes like Invasion)
•Random power weapon spawns
•Flinch
•Most AAs
•Default Sprint
•Perks
•Killstreaks
•Killcams
•Instant Spawn

Feel free to add

•The ability to spawn with a shotgun (Boltshot) or any 1-shot kill weapon.

 

[BigShow36]

That is overblown, Halo 2 was incredible.

Other than the gameplay, it was great.

 

[Ghazi]

http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii/new

Streaming my CSR grind to 50. Stream will be updated with current level and win/loss record. Going in alone.

I find myself unable to chat, idk why.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Try to imagine what it's like for someone like me to read this.

I don't get mad at Halo 4. Maybe it's because I used up all my mad on Reach. Maybe it's just apathy. It definitely has its share of issues, but I just can't seem to find energy for them.

I lul'd. And my Halo mad will never run out.. Even Halo 1 used to drive me nuts! "Fuck these OP Rockets.." Imagine me reading things like Halo 3 Rockets are OP on top of people wanting BR nerfs.

 

[ExigentContact]

•The ability to spawn with a shotgun (Boltshot) or any 1-shot kill weapon.

•Custom loadouts in general. They might be good for a social gametype, but they're good for the overall metagame. Predefined loadouts can work if they're properly balanced, particularly in game modes that necessitate it. I miss you, Invasion.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Other than the gameplay, it was great.

Whats wrong with the gameplay? Gunplay felt great,maps were the best along with vehicles.

 

[BigShow36]

Whats wrong with the gameplay? Gunplay felt great,maps were the best along with vehicles.

Massive aim assist completely destroyed the shooting-skill gap, which bled into other areas of the gameplay and essentially started the over-reliance on teamshot, slow kill speed gameplay that Halo has been plauged with ever since.

 

[Madness]

Is there any Game of Thrones book reader here? I'm going to quote something, can you read it and tell me, if it's most likely true, and whether or not anyone who watched yesterday's episode could have come up with it, if they never read the books? I believe some book readers try and troll the no book spoiler thread and write what happens but try and pass it off as a simple guess.

Spoiler

The rack Theon's torturers use does not seem so by accident. Bolton's bastard has him. Which means Bolton's men torched Winterfell and killed everyone. I can only deduce one thing. The Boltons, at least, are in Tywin's pocket. Rob better watch his back.

Once again, just please confirm if this seems like he's read the book. And for fans of the show, don't click this spoiler then I guess.

 

[Twilight Gap]

•Bloom (other than for visual effect)
•Spawning with Anti-Vehicle weapons (outside of special gametypes like Invasion)
•Random power weapon spawns
•Flinch
•Most AAs
•Default Sprint
•Perks
•Killstreaks
•Killcams
•Instant Spawn

Feel free to add

•JOIN IN PROGRESS

forgot that one.

It could work and it's good in theory, but I don't think it has in H4. I like being able to join friends though, but it always puts me on the other team.

•The ability to spawn with a shotgun (Boltshot) or any 1-shot kill weapon.

Ya the Boltshot is pants.

 

[ExigentContact]

Whats wrong with the gameplay? Gunplay felt great,maps were the best along with vehicles.

Too slow, crippling aim assist and bullet magnetism, glitches and button combos hurt the core gameplay, grenades were nearly useless, dual-wielding was a terrible idea that made a sizeable portion of the sandbox nearly worthless, etc., etc.

Halo 2 had great maps and revolutionary online. Nearly everything else about it when it comes to MP is overrated.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Too slow, crippling aim assist and bullet magnetism, glitches and button combos hurt the core gameplay, grenades were nearly useless, dual-wielding was a terrible idea that made a sizeable portion of the sandbox nearly worthless, etc., etc.

Halo 2 had great maps and revolutionary online. Nearly everything else about it when it comes to MP is overrated.

Nades useless? I remember them being overpowered if anything. Also Halo was always slow paced.

 

[Tawpgun]

Shooting fully bloomed 7/10 shots land below the halfway mark. So your aimer should be pretty high up on the head so they always head downwards to their head.

Also do three body shots quick wait til full bloom reset and then shoot two spammed at the head for the kill, bloom doesnt seem to kick in that much until after the second spam shot. Its probably the easiest and quickest cadence.

Never forget the J-Twitch

 

[ExigentContact]

Nades useless? I remember them being overpowered if anything. Also Halo was always slow paced.

Halo: CE was no Quake, but it was considerably faster than every Halo game after it. I would have preferred that running speed to have remained the base speed for the series. Grenades were also patched, but I still thought they were too weak. I like the highly powered grenades of Halo: CE, but they should have been more scarce and had a smaller a much smaller radius. Make them more valuable. Halo has a weird tendency to turn grenades into party favors.

 

[Tashi]

so brave.

Joining up with Ram and Nutter now. Should be better