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Halo |OT18| We're Back Baby!

W

wwm0nkey

Member
Saw this on Bungie.net and thought some of you guys might enjoy it

J8B33Bb.jpg
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G

Ghazi

Member
^

#NewWallpaper

Because my laptop is a piece of shit and doesn't do the backups I had it set to do and I reset it last night. Lost everything :(
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
mo60 said:
Hello everyone in halogaf. I have recently been accepted to the neogaf community and I started participating in the halo community late last year. I have been constantly reading this thread and the other halo thread and I have the same concerns about the future of the halo franchise as you guys even though halo 4 is technically my first halo game.
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Wow, even newbies know the franchise has seen better days.

Welcome.
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
Fuchsdh said:
When it comes right down to it, there's no innate control over quantities. If there's a jetpack or a camo or an OS on the map, you know there can only be X camo snipers, etc. Obviously ordnance creates issues with not knowing what people could have, and likewise AAs means you can have mass regen field teams or mass camo teams, etc that amp up the frustration level and severely imbalance encounters. While I think you could argue the AAs are balanced in terms of utility, they aren't balanced in terms of actual power or counters--you can't say "oh, they have invis, we should all switch to X" and defeat them. Switching to pickups completely eliminates this part of the equation and greatly simplifies the problems you have to deal with.
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Different pick ups or perks were a interesting adition to the game but AAs were a little too easy to handle and the ability to change it in real time without any penalty was a wrong move by 343i.

COD tried a simmilar mechanic in MW3, it was terrible.
 
B

BlueScrote

Member
Orochinagis said:
Different pick ups or perks were a interesting adition to the game but AAs were a little too easy to handle and the ability to change it in real time without any penalty was a wrong move by 343i.

COD tried a simmilar mechanic in MW3, it was terrible.
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Could you ruminate on that mechanic? I don't seem to remember that at all.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
NobleGundam said:
Preset Loadouts with No AA. With or without Perks (Specializations). Now Let's say pickups on map include both Equipments & Armor Abilities. But you can only obtain one or the other at a time.
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YOU MEAN WITHOUT, BECAUSE YOU KNOW EQUAL STARTS AND ALL. SORRY THAT I TYPED IN CAPSLOCK, BUT YOU MADE ME MAD.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
TheOddOne said:
YOU MEAN WITHOUT, BECAUSE YOU KNOW EQUAL STARTS AND ALL. SORRY THAT I TYPED IN CAPSLOCK, BUT YOU MADE ME MAD.
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Yeah, I don't like them either but if they can balance these stupid perks somehow in someway then maybe they're useful so long as its within your preset loadout and not separately like in Halo 4.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
NobleGundam said:
Yeah, I don't like them either but if they can balance these stupid perks somehow in someway then maybe they're useful so long as its within your preset loadout and not separately like in Halo 4.
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There is the problem, there is no way to balance perks in anyway. It will always give someone a leg up, even if it's minor, and it will always mess with the balance regardless. The whole idea with perks is to let the player feel more empowered and engaged, but in reality it just gimps the player and everybody else.

With static power weapons and equipment, the dynamic of the battle changed and it brought variety. Now mix that with equal starts, and the side effects like increased map knowledge, team coordination and urgency, there was already enough to engage players. That certain elements needed to be telegraphed to players is something that was need (For example, in social playlist they could have added timers to show when the power weapons would respawn), but a total revamp with this perk system really just threw out fascinating aspects that were core to the Halo multiplayer. Every one of those elements is gone and is replaced by perks.

All I’m saying, let’s start a coup and dethrone perks.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
TheOddOne said:
There is the problem, there is no way to balance perks in anyway. It will always give someone a leg up, even if it's minor, and it will always mess with the balance regardless. The whole idea with perks is to let the player feel more empowered and engaged, but in reality it just gimps the player and everybody else.

With static power weapons and equipment, the dynamic of the battle changed and it brought variety. Now mix that with equal starts, and the side effects like increased map knowledge, team coordination and urgency, there was already enough to engage players. That certain elements needed to be telegraphed to players is something that was need (For example, in social playlist they could have added timers to show when the power weapons would respawn), but a total revamp with this perk system really just threw out fascinating aspects that were core to the Halo multiplayer. Every one of those elements is gone and is replaced by perks.

All I’m saying, let’s start a coup and dethrone perks.
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I agree but let's say we just use only a very specific selection of perks that can only be within 1 preset loadout. Dexterity. Both players reload faster. That's primarily what I had only in mind.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Steelyuhas said:
Yeah pooping out an invincible field that allowed to you auto-win a fight even if you were one-shot or a giant pause-button bubble worked perfectly.
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I edited my post. Limiting what they can do is necessary. Obviously things like the bubble shield don't work (just look at the Hardlight Shield and Armor Lock), but other equipment like the grav lift and trip mine don't affect the core experience in a negative fashion.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
monsterfracas said:
Perks and Armor Abilities can work if they are limited to map pickups. It worked in Halo 3.
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It could work, but has to time-based usage.

NobleGundam said:
I agree but let's say we just use only a very specific selection of perks that can only be within 1 preset loadout. Dexterity. Both players reload faster. That's primarily what I had only in mind.
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I'm just not a fan of the whole base features being deligated to perks. Rather it come down to the player, not outside factors.
 
D

daedalius

Member
So Saints Row 3 is pretty amazing, got it on the steam sale.

Good for those Halo blues, or something (I don't really have them).

DICK MOVE, UNICORN!
 
B

BTM

Member
I joined GAF a few months ago and I can't believe I haven't even looked in the community section. Even though Halo 4 wasn't perfect, I'm eagerly awaiting what 343i can do with the next Halo. I have faith they'll deliver.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
TheOddOne said:
It could work, but has to time-based usage.
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That's a great idea. Didn't Bungie say that armor abilities were born out of players holding onto equipment for too long? Make it 1 or two uses with a time limit before it expires.
daedalius said:
So Saints Row 3 is pretty amazing, got it on the steam sale.

Good for those Halo blues, or something (I don't really have them).

DICK MOVE, UNICORN!
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Aw man just wait. It gets even better. Seriously one of my favorite games this generation. Played it with Franklinator yesterday. I was going to hold off on SRIV, but I don't think I can.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
monsterfracas said:
Perks and Armor Abilities can work if they are limited to map pickups and what they can do. It worked in Halo 3.
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Even though that would be better i don't think it's the right thing to do. Picking up something like faster reload just makes the game unbalanced. Halo specifically shouldn't be doing that, it can work for other games with other gameplay styles. I'd say have it like the original two Halo titles or even Halo 3 equipment. It has to make sense and be balanced first and foremost.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Syphon Filter said:
Even though that would be better i don't think it's the right thing to do. Picking up something like faster reload just makes the game unbalanced. Halo specifically shouldn't be doing that, it can work for other games with other gameplay styles. I'd say have it like the original two Halo titles or even Halo 3 equipment. It has to make sense and be balanced first and foremost.
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Did we ever get any further explanation from 343 what actually happened that they had a traditional Halo but scrapped it? I think they should've, at least, told us the whole truth behind this imo.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
BTM said:
I joined GAF a few months ago and I can't believe I haven't even looked in the community section. Even though Halo 4 wasn't perfect, I'm eagerly awaiting what 343i can do with the next Halo. I have faith they'll deliver.
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Don't
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Syphon Filter said:
Was there ever any footage of it?
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Yes. It was an interview with Kiki Wolfkill addressing all of 343's ideas and actions regarding the franchise and Halo 4. I need to find it first. Sometime around when Fyrewolf was tweeting his Issues after working with 343 as freelancing or something like that. Let me find it.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Silly.Mikey said:
This is facts.
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The entire game is just the casual Halo fans leftover. If you are using numbers to prove this point you should be using Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Reach all had better numbers without perks thus proving you are wrong but lets not stop there, keep reading.

The perks actually remove a shitty feature they added into the game that shouldnt be there to begin with. Like flinch!

Its BTB all over again of course BTB is going to be popular when 10 of the maps are BTB maps.

Plus the perk removed playlists are all cometitive playlists that are niche by default.

Its just a terrible connection you are making, its like saying Clowns are fun at the circus so lets get a clown in our 5 star restaurant.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
Silly.Mikey said:
The fact that every single playlist they've added that removed the perks are consistently the lowest populated ones warrants the argument.
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That's within the context of Halo 4. They made all these perks part of player investment, of course players don't want to relinquish things in which they've invested. I'm speaking in the broader context of the franchise. We've all played Halo without perks and Halo with perks and can each make an informed decision. Perks add nothing but unpredictability and confusion to a game that played best when players have the fullest capability of understanding their encounters. They are psychological bullshit that gives players the illusion of being more powerful.
 
D

daedalius

Member
monsterfracas said:
That's a great idea. Didn't Bungie say that armor abilities were born out of players holding onto equipment for too long? Make it 1 or two uses with a time limit before it expires.

Aw man just wait. It gets even better. Seriously one of my favorite games this generation. Played it with Franklinator yesterday. I was going to hold off on SRIV, but I don't think I can.
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SR4 looks SO AMAZING.

Can't wait for super powers, also DUBSTEP GUN.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Bam! Found it!

"It's during that time you're questioning yourself: 'How is this going to work, will it be as I envision it in my head?" says Holmes. For Halo 4, he says there were a few epiphany moments that helped boost the morale of the team. One of the earlier ones that Holmes recalls was when the team completed a small piece of the Halo experience that he described as a "very traditional" Halo. User research showed that people thought it was a lot of fun, and it showed that the team was capable of making a Halo game that was true to what the series was about.

343 scrapped it, Holmes says, as it was too traditional. But that first build showed the new team that this amalgamation of different studio cultures could work together and achieve a common goal.
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http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=547908
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
HiredN00bs said:
That's within the context of Halo 4. They made all these perks part of player investment, of course players don't want to relinquish things in which they've invested. I'm speaking in the broader context of the franchise. We've all played Halo without perks and Halo with perks and can each make an informed decision. Perks add nothing but unpredictability and confusion to a game that played best when players have the fullest capability of understanding their encounters. They are psychological bullshit that gives players the illusion of being more powerful.
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These are my words. This man has stolen my words.
 
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