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Halo |OT2| Hyper-Athletic Speed And Mass And Weight and Power

There really isn't shit 343i can do that's going to make us content or HBO content or the vast majority of players content because Reach is a mish mash of several different ideas and philosophies that contradict each other and the Halo we came to know and love. As much as I loathe some of the playlists in Classic I prefer it to any of the bloom DMR/AA bullshit in others. And I much prefer the ZB game types (although seriously armor abilities with that too? why?). Without 343 these wouldn't even exist and I might stop playing altogether. But still I really have to do wonder why Squad Slayer of all things had to take a dive when everything but classic/mlg now has certain armor abilities (correct me if I'm wrong?).
 
I'm starting to really hate reach.
I find it impossible to play the matchmaking playlists.
The teams are never fair. Either one team is severely overpowered or underpowered.
People always quit. I don't remember the last time nobody quit in a non MLG playlist.

I'm getting sick of the ZB DMR. It is too easy to use.
I do not by any means prefer bloom, just the combo of slow movement, no acceleration, and huge hit boxes makes the game way too easy.

Bottom line: Halo 4 can't come soon enough.
Unfortunately we were saying the same thing about Halo Reach during Halo 3.
Hopefully 343i will pull through. If not, blame stosh.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
There really isn't shit 343i can do that's going to make us content or HBO content or the vast majority of players content because Reach is a mish mash of several different ideas and philosophies that contradict each other and the Halo we came to know and love. As much as I loathe some of the playlists in Classic I prefer it to any of the bloom DMR/AA bullshit in others. And I much prefer the ZB game types (although seriously armor abilities with that too? why?). Without 343 these wouldn't even exist and I might stop playing altogether. But still I really have to do wonder why Squad Slayer of all things had to take a dive when everything but classic/mlg now has certain armor abilities (correct me if I'm wrong?).
Yeah, I've been having similarly mixed feelings. In many ways 343i saved Reach for me, but they made several baffling decisions along the way. Squad Slayer and bleedthrough being axed are at the top of that WTF List.

Like you said, though, they've had to juggle so many different ideas and philosophies. Frankie has said H4 will be more focused and consistent. Crossing my fingers.

I'm getting sick of the ZB DMR. It is too easy to use.
I do not by any means prefer bloom, just the combo of slow movement, no acceleration, and huge hit boxes makes the game way too easy.
Try MLG. Seriously. Zero bloom, increased movement speed, better weapon placements, AAs as pick-ups only, and bleedthrough. After Squad Slayer got cut, I though ZB Slayer would be my favorite list, but MLG has surprisingly taken the top spot.
 

Havok

Member
Funny thing is people got confused anyway. Since 2 they've been squandering away information regarding what people are playing. Maybe I'm just pissy this week but you design around information you know you need to display, you don't come up with a design then ax whatever the fuck isn't convenient in your "sleek UI." That's the very definition of cheating in design.
I don't really think it was a sacrifice to make the design sleeker, I just think it was a serious oversight where those information elements were forgotten, not considered in the first place rather than being axed later. I mean, look at the Active Roster's behavior in Big Team Battle when you're up against a party of 8. It'll look like this:

Player 1
Player 2
Player 3
Player 4
Player 5
Player 6
Player 7
(more)

It doesn't even list the eight player in the party. I doubt this was to make the design look better, they just didn't take into account how these things were actually being used. It's a failure, just in a different way than what you're describing.

Also, I feel like this Halo 2 matchmaking gametype box discussion comes up once a month or so at this point. Things like that gametype info on a broad level down to very specific, functional UI elements like flag/bomb reset indicators were left in the dust, and the game suffers for it. How many times have you been two inches from a flag racing towards it only to have it reset without warning before you can pick it up? The bizarre thing is that they have elements in place that just need to be applied to those objects - the Stockpile 'time to next score' timer would work just fine. Again, I don't think this is an issue of trying to make it look pretty, it seems more like they just didn't take into account why people need these things.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Things like that gametype info on a broad level down to very specific, functional UI elements like flag/bomb reset indicators were left in the dust, and the game suffers for it. How many times have you been two inches from a flag racing towards it only to have it reset without warning before you can pick it up? The bizarre thing is that they have elements in place that just need to be applied to those objects - the Stockpile 'time to next score' timer would work just fine. Again, I don't think this is an issue of trying to make it look pretty, it seems more like they just didn't take into account why people need these things.

I will never understand why the return bars from Halo 2 never came back. It seemed like randoms were more likely to go after the flag if they could quickly ID when it was about to return, instead of the vague flashing (when did it start flashing? How many flashes until it goes back?) or in some cases, just suddenly returning after the invisible timer ends.
 

Havok

Member
I will never understand why the return bars from Halo 2 never came back. It seemed like randoms were more likely to go after the flag if they could quickly ID when it was about to return, instead of the vague flashing (when did it start flashing? How many flashes until it goes back?) or in some cases, just suddenly returning after the invisible timer ends.
Now that I think about it, there is one more big objective UI element that I miss: the ring indicating the area that you can stand in and still plant the bomb. This problem was circumvented in Halo 3 by going to the instant-arm-then-defend planting mechanic, but now that Reach has (rightfully) returned to the original Assault form, it's devolved into people crouching on the tiny plate because it's the only place where the arm is guaranteed, where before you had a little room to maneuver. Really just exacerbates the problems that nuclear grenades bring to the table in Assault games.
 
I will never understand why the return bars from Halo 2 never came back. It seemed like randoms were more likely to go after the flag if they could quickly ID when it was about to return, instead of the vague flashing (when did it start flashing? How many flashes until it goes back?) or in some cases, just suddenly returning after the invisible timer ends.

Vague flashing sucks. Just yesterday I'd get on the flag during our MLG scrims only for it to disappear as I got there. And I agree there are UI elements since 2 within game that have also suffered. Havok if it's an overall ignorance than that's even more sad that whomever is managing the multiplayer didn't think about what people need to know when playing their game. The whole "flag stolen" when it's a neutral flag and your team mates take it still fucks with me because I'm not going to pay attention to the little words on the left hand side of the screen that says it's my team mates before I hear that announcement.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Now that I think about it, there is one more big objective UI element that I miss: the ring indicating the area that you can stand in and still plant the bomb. This problem was circumvented in Halo 3 by going to the instant-arm-then-defend planting mechanic, but now that Reach has (rightfully) returned to the original Assault form, it's devolved into people crouching on the tiny plate because it's the only place where the arm is guaranteed, where before you had a little room to maneuver. Really just exacerbates the problems that nuclear grenades bring to the table in Assault games.

I was actually surprised that didn't come back in Reach. Maybe it's Megalo-able. Also, I liked sticky arming.
 
Now that I think about it, there is one more big objective UI element that I miss: the ring indicating the area that you can stand in and still plant the bomb. This problem was circumvented in Halo 3 by going to the instant-arm-then-defend planting mechanic, but now that Reach has (rightfully) returned to the original Assault form, it's devolved into people crouching on the tiny plate because it's the only place where the arm is guaranteed, where before you had a little room to maneuver. Really just exacerbates the problems that nuclear grenades bring to the table in Assault games.

Bigger area also made for some excellent beat downs and strafe dancing since you weren't confined to that small plate.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Bigger area also made for some excellent beat downs and strafe dancing since you weren't confined to that small plate.

It's really odd how so many things - little things that add up - took steps back as the series went on. The UI largely got better, but a host of omissions in Reach (many of which were later updated) and some really strange game type decisions, such as the arming zone, take a lot away from the game.

I'd honestly forgotten how arming worked in Halo 2, but this discussion bought it all back. It was so much better when we could move around and see the arming zone.
 

Havok

Member
I was actually surprised that didn't come back in Reach. Maybe it's Megalo-able. Also, I liked sticky arming.
I'd certainly hope there is a way to add it back in, however hackneyed it needs to be. I've got no idea what hooks they have in for visual elements, but it wouldn't be just like any of the other transparent borders in the game, like Stockpile/Hill, right?

Havok if it's an overall ignorance than that's even more sad that whomever is managing the multiplayer didn't think about what people need to know when playing their game. The whole "flag stolen" when it's a neutral flag and your team mates take it still fucks with me because I'm not going to pay attention to the little words on the left hand side of the screen that says it's my team mates before I hear that announcement.
I'd certainly like to believe there was a technical reason behind all of those omissions, like there apparently is with the Score Bar and Megalo. But somehow it just feels like the basics were all that was ever made, and even then, like with that Neutral Flag issue, even the basics are just missing. Seeing the UI in that Halo 4 material, like the score bar and Back button that hopefully brings up gametype information, makes me hopeful that we'll see a return to UI design that is both functional and sleek, as you mentioned.


It's really odd how so many things - little things that add up - took steps back as the series went on. The UI largely got better, but a host of omissions in Reach (many of which were later updated) and some really strange game type decisions, such as the arming zone, take a lot away from the game.

I'd honestly forgotten how arming worked in Halo 2, but this discussion bought it all back. It was so much better when we could move around and see the arming zone.
I can see how these things get lost as the gametype emphasis changed over the series. Halo 2 was the introduction of Assault and asymmetric gametypes, and most of the UI elements we miss were developed to make those things awesome. With Halo 3, VIP was developed and had custom UI, but by and large new gametypes took a backseat, with an emphasis on variants of existing gametypes, like instant-arm Assault. Then, with Reach, obvious effort was put into their new gametypes Stockpile and Headhunter, both of which have custom UI elements (the king marker for a skullamanjaro, stockpile 'next score' timer, etc). It's super unfortunate that like so many other things, the awesome UI bits developed in the past weren't brought forward like they should have been.

Also, sticky arming was rad. It's discussions like this that make me glad that 343 dudes read this thread, so hopefully this little stuff doesn't get lost again.
 

kylej

Banned
wow3.png


progaming.jpg
 
It's really odd how so many things - little things that add up - took steps back as the series went on. The UI largely got better, but a host of omissions in Reach (many of which were later updated) and some really strange game type decisions, such as the arming zone, take a lot away from the game.

I'd honestly forgotten how arming worked in Halo 2, but this discussion bought it all back. It was so much better when we could move around and see the arming zone.

I miss sticky arming too. If your team sucked ass you could still pull off an assault win by arming it for a bit, killing the dudes you need to, then arming it for the rest of the time necessary. Now if you try to arm alone you just get blitzkrieged by the other team's nades off spawn even if you killed them before you got up to the arming spot.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I'd honestly forgotten how arming worked in Halo 2, but this discussion bought it all back. It was so much better when we could move around and see the arming zone.

It's discussions like this that make me glad that 343 dudes read this thread, so hopefully this little stuff doesn't get lost again.

I miss sticky arming too. If your team sucked ass you could still pull off an assault win by arming it for a bit, killing the dudes you need to, then arming it for the rest of the time necessary. Now if you try to arm alone you just get blitzkrieged by the other team's nades off spawn even if you killed them before you got up to the arming spot.
Hire Devokleon.
 
Also thanks for putting the arming spots outside of the bases on Beaver Creek. You know having the rocket bridge overlook one arm spot and not the other, that seems fair. =/.
 

Havok

Member
Also thanks for putting the arming spots outside of the bases on Beaver Creek. You know having the rocket bridge overlook one arm spot and not the other, that seems fair. =/.
Pretty sure those arm spots are placed outside because they put shotguns in the bases. You know, balance out one shitty decision with another. Makes sense to me!

Honestly, I can't believe that a map managed to come anywhere close to Boardwalk's title for Worst Objective Placement.
Hire Devokleon.
If we're gonna pull a Voltron and make a giant robot game designer, I want to control the head of the robot.
 
Also thanks for putting the arming spots outside of the bases on Beaver Creek. You know having the rocket bridge overlook one arm spot and not the other, that seems fair. =/.
They can't have it in the base because of the inevitable Shotgun base camping.

Why the fuck are Shotguns in the base? Why is default Battle Canyon such a mess?

Edit: lol, beaten.
 
Pretty sure those arm spots are placed outside because they put shotguns in the bases. You know, balance out one shitty decision with another. Makes sense to me!

Honestly, I can't believe that a map managed to come anywhere close to Boardwalk's title for Worst Objective Placement.
If we're gonna pull a Voltron and make a giant robot game designer, I want to control the head of the robot.

8661122_orig.jpg


You're red, I'm pink, Ghal is green, Orange is Eazy B, Blue is juices.

Hiveminding with Kittens over here.
 

Nutter

Member
Lazy aiming = Fun

That hasnt changed since Halo 1. Oh noooo my automatic rifle cant kill the precision weapon guy. Cry Cry.

I wonder if we can have a playlist with restrictions on weapons. Just Automatic weapons all the time for them. CTF with AR's :O
 

Homeboyd

Member
Whoa you went to school with Matt Flynn?
Yeah graduated with him. Pretty good friends but I don't claim us to be slumber party buddies or anything. :)

Dude just sealed up 10 mil guaranteed and 26 mil over the next 3 years. Knew he'd be a stud. Would've won us state if it wasn't for a bad ref call, then he went on to lead LSU to a national title, immediately won a super bowl with GB (as a back up) and now is a starting QB for Seattle. Fucking amazing.


Wtf we went to high school together?
Say whaaaat
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
instinct going off right now

www.redbullusa.com/lan

so good
I have a transcript of every MLG tourney game ever:

aljknhroilqhn2oi4yhr98o1yqo29y9rgt1982gtruh
2u3814ry981hbackq21h47812gh9ier4h
2u81shot4yr982yh0895ry239y581weak2y30957y09234y

Rockets in 10 seconds

12894yh1shot98o23yh5rgh3e
3u5rht289h3g459t8h2
ejkdnfkjnsniper2ftopnjnp2jkl
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
I have a transcript of every MLG tourney game ever:

aljknhroilqhn2oi4yhr98o1yqo29y9rgt1982gtruh
2u3814ry981hbackq21h47812gh9ier4h
2u81shot4yr982yh0895ry239y581weak2y30957y09234y

Rockets in 10 seconds

12894yh1shot98o23yh5rgh3e
3u5rht289h3g459t8h2
ejkdnfkjnsniper2ftopnjnp2jkl

I watched the stream for about 15 seconds. The match itself was cool, but the audio was just a clusterfuck of voices.
 

Havok

Member
How about the bullet.
http://i.imgur.com/e7aQBl.jpg[IMG]
Nice, Devo. ;-)[/QUOTE]
[quote="Devolution, post: 36154148"][img]http://www.kungfujackknife.com/uploads/5/4/5/6/5456702/8661122_orig.jpg[img]
You're red, I'm pink, Ghal is green, Orange is Eazy B, Blue is juices.
Hiveminding with Kittens over here.[/QUOTE]
I was hoping someone would post that comic, and then I got two! So good.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I watched the stream for about 15 seconds. The match itself was cool, but the audio was just a clusterfuck of voices.

I can't stand to watch competitive Halo because I like knowing what the hell is going on and with an FPS I never feel like I have the proper spectator view. They don't make it better with all the screaming :)
 
I have a transcript of every MLG tourney game ever:

aljknhroilqhn2oi4yhr98o1yqo29y9rgt1982gtruh
2u3814ry981hbackq21h47812gh9ier4h
2u81shot4yr982yh0895ry239y581weak2y30957y09234y

Rockets in 10 seconds

12894yh1shot98o23yh5rgh3e
3u5rht289h3g459t8h2
ejkdnfkjnsniper2ftopnjnp2jkl

I understood everything said.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Turn up your hearing aids, grandmas. It's pretty easy to hear their callouts.
It's like when Neo has that moment of realization and clarity in that hallway and it all makes sense. It just needs to click for some lol

Edit: homeboy, I was just kidding.
 
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