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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!

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So what made it seem like a good idea to not have party matching restrictions in all playlists? Besides of course ffa playlists..

I mean most of the reach playlists are thoroughly populated to support quick searches for other parties.

Most of Bungie's decisions when it came to Reach matchmaking seemed to center around making it much faster to get into game and to make it more of a social experience.

I think the lack of party matching restrictions and less emphasis on tight trueskill were mostly done to speed up matchmaking. Stuff like optional continuous lobbies and most playlists not being limited to team size, but game size were to make the game a more social experience, making it easier to play with your friends regardless of your party size and easier to continue playing with people that you are matched up with in matchmaking.
 

Louis Wu

Member
Did you also enjoy being invited to a pre-release VIP Halo 4 party with the developers?
See... you know how you like to point out that it's unreasonable to argue that you can't judge something until you've played it yourself? The converse is true - it's unreasonable to argue that being invited for special events makes you ineligible to fairly judge the content of those events.

Anyone have that list of Halo 4 drinks by chance? Having a party next Saturday and I figured I would make some.
While I saw you already found it, I figured I'd post it for others, too:

haloparty_drinks.jpg
And while we're at it, here's the Reach version:


(Voice and text stuff)
Well whatever. Fixed.
Yay! (Don't forget to thank Caja 117, who suggested the solution. :) )

Every now and then he or she will accidentally put in a Macarena or Who Let the Dogs Out, and only Granny Wu will still be dancing, but even she deserves one turn on the floor.
wtf. I danced to the Macarena once in my life. At a wedding in 1997. And I was really drunk. Do NOT put that shit on me.
 

Caja 117

Member
It's a reasonable concern. Matchmaking is like being a DJ at a Wedding - you can hook people with the old crowd pleasers - Team Slayer, Bon Jovi - but there are lots of different people at a wedding. Old people, young people, cool people, buttrock fans. A great DJ will pick a playlist that has something for everyone, but adapts to the audience. He or she will start pulling tracks out of his boxes that he thinks the audience is going to like - and when they do, they dance. They have fun. Everyone is happy.

Every now and then he or she will accidentally put in a Macarena or Who Let the Dogs Out, and only Granny Wu will still be dancing, but even she deserves one turn on the floor.

Some of the people at the party will simply plug in their headphones and sit at their own table, head bobbing to MLG, or some other new outfit.

But a great DJ, a truly influential and amazing DJ, will introduce the audience to a track they all love, and that they'll be humming for years.

When our DJs show up at this particular wedding, for the first dance, they'll have a small box of records. Ones they know will work, more or less, and keep people dancing. Adapting to the crowd, growing the selection slowly but keeping it tight, focused, good, that's the hard part. These are new DJs and they have a couple of new tracks.

Cragmire fo leif.


Drop the mic.


This is the most epic analogy I have ever read in a forum.
 
Personally I feel that citadel is awful for 4v4 team slayer. The sight lines are odd, for instance you get to see base to base but very few opportunities for kills due to the fact the br is not crazy effective at that range plus the columns get in the way. Attacking either base is extremely awkward because of the height advantage the base gets. If you attack from sniper (the base's sniper) you have a wide open area to cross that leaves you vulnerable. If you attack from bubbleshield side you are almost completely cut off from support from your team, (pretty much the same attacking from sniper)

Finally it is possible to attack from top mid but again you are completely exposed and have very little potential for backup, due to lack of shooting lanes.

Basically to attack someone holding down a base you need to have your full team with you and that leaves you open for someone to hit you from the back. (plus holding down base is very safe due to back shotgun room and the lack of shooting lanes into the base)
I pretty much disagree with all of this, but I'll be brief. The thing is, for Team Slayer, in my games, there really isn't a red base or blue base. The whole map is very fluid and neither holds down an area for too long. There are too many ways to enter either base for one team of four to hold it down.

I can see your point on the sightlines and being able to see base to base, but I can't think of a map (if it's only one or two) where you can kill someone while at the opposite base.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Just got up. These things apparently still hold:

- Apparently most of matchmaking still doesn't understand how "Team and Party" works. Hint: it keeps other people from hearing you without ever having to mute the other team.

- I will still never get to play Cragmire in matchmaking.

- People that don't want a DJ to DJ should have just plugged an iPod into a stereo and hit "Play entire playlist"

- I forgot to thank Monsterfracas for helping out on my second to last RB recording of Free Bird on Keys
 

Karl2177

Member
Just got up. These things apparently still hold:

- Apparently most of matchmaking still doesn't understand how "Team and Party" works. Hint: it keeps other people from hearing you without ever having to mute the other team.

- I will still never get to play Cragmire in matchmaking.

- People that don't want a DJ to DJ should have just plugged an iPod into a stereo and hit "Play entire playlist"

- I forgot to thank Monsterfracas for helping out on my second to last RB recording of Free Bird on Keys

Lucky you. ;)
 

Swarmerr

Member
Most of Bungie's decisions when it came to Reach matchmaking seemed to center around making it much faster to get into game and to make it more of a social experience.

I think the lack of party matching restrictions and less emphasis on tight trueskill were mostly done to speed up matchmaking. Stuff like optional continuous lobbies and most playlists not being limited to team size, but game size were to make the game a more social experience, making it easier to play with your friends regardless of your party size and easier to continue playing with people that you are matched up with in matchmaking.

Gotcha not my cup of tea I guess.

I pretty much disagree with all of this, but I'll be brief. The thing is, for Team Slayer, in my games, there really isn't a red base or blue base. The whole map is very fluid and neither holds down an area for too long. There are too many ways to enter either base for one team of four to hold it down.

I can see your point on the sightlines and being able to see base to base, but I can't think of a map (if it's only one or two) where you can kill someone while at the opposite base.

Even though its never really red base versus blue base, the losing team does need to be on the offensive.

I fail to see how there are too many ways to get into the bases. You have top mid, and then the left and right side of the bases. That would equal a total of 3 entrances for four players to hold while having a high ground advantage.

My main gripe with the map is if you want to be aggressive and get shots on the opposing team (if they are in a base) is that you have to move into exposed areas to get those angles. While doing this because the other team has the high ground in a base all they have to do is back up to avoid being shot. (due to how large the bases are at the top) To me the map inhibits movement instead of promoting it.

I don't pretend to know how to play on this map and if there is a way to play citadel to circumvent the advantage of the bases I would like to know, I just personally haven't thought of it.
 
So basically your response to how 343 will be handling playlists in Halo 4 is "trust us". Good stuff.

Me and juices need people, Xeno and Over get online.
Sometimes, you just go abit too far. But I've seen worse in comparison with less vocabulary and proper grammar.
 

Karl2177

Member
I don't pretend to know how to play on this map and if there is a way to play it to circumvent the advantage of the base I would like to know, I just personally haven't thought of it.

I play it the same way I play Zealot. I just pick a direction and always go in a circle. I like to use BR/Snipe on it, but I find that BR/AR or BR/PP is acceptable as well. I generally avoid the center, and use the pillars for cover. Also, a good BR can take out a player going for the center rockets. When Overshield pops up, I switch my route to grab it. Plus, with the Halo 3 grenades, it's not too hard to nade spam the bases and get anyone out.
 

Caja 117

Member
Just got up. These things apparently still hold:

- Apparently most of matchmaking still doesn't understand how "Team and Party" works. Hint: it keeps other people from hearing you without ever having to mute the other team.

- I will still never get to play Cragmire in matchmaking.

- People that don't want a DJ to DJ should have just plugged an iPod into a stereo and hit "Play entire playlist"

- I forgot to thank Monsterfracas for helping out on my second to last RB recording of Free Bird on Keys

Doesnt work in custom.
 

willow ve

Member
So you hired a CD player? Cool.

Essentially... yes. I hired a DJ who would setup and bring his own equipment and play the music that I wanted him to play. It was my wedding and I didn't need the headache of bad music during the reception. 95% of the weddings I attend have terrible music and DJs who don't know when to shut up.

Dammit, when is GAF getting a Like button?

I don't know where you guys are from, but here in the midwest you get a shit load of terrible music played at every wedding. From the YMCA to the Macarena to the Chicken Dance and everything in between. I get the pleasant connection between the repeating refrain "We Are Family" when blasted throughout a wedding reception, but really I don't need that played on my dollar.

Not to mention all of those aunts, uncles, etc., who go up and request "their song" which just turns out to be Mercy by Duffy and they literally ask the DJ a total of SEVEN times during the night to play it (and then are so annoyed they burn a copy of it to CD and bring it with them to the next family wedding a month later). I'm glad the DJ stuck to the script, and he was glad to have the excuse "oh, sorry, I have special instructions from the bride and groom..."
 

Swarmerr

Member
I play it the same way I play Zealot. I just pick a direction and always go in a circle. I like to use BR/Snipe on it, but I find that BR/AR or BR/PP is acceptable as well. I generally avoid the center, and use the pillars for cover. Also, a good BR can take out a player going for the center rockets. When Overshield pops up, I switch my route to grab it. Plus, with the Halo 3 grenades, it's not too hard to nade spam the bases and get anyone out.

Well if playing it is much like zealot I fear my opinion of it is cemented.

Zealot is a good map in reach but overall in the halo series i consider it to be nothing more than a starter girl. Basically a map that will hold me over while playing reach in the hopes that once halo 4 comes out i will be able to move on to better and brighter things.

edit: will be playing halo 3 if anyone wants to play let me know
 

kylej

Banned
Sometimes, you just go abit too far. But I've seen worse in comparison with less vocabulary and proper grammar.

Well, it's a non-answer. The question was "I'm concerned about Halo 4 playlists because 343 control of Reach has been bad". Frankie's response was that they'll be catering to different types of people in Halo 4. Of course they will. But does 343 have a better suite of analytics for playlist data? What lessons have been learned from Reach? Will 343 be attempting more transparent playlist management? Will the community have a forum to submit playlist changes? How will Forge maps be integrated? If the game is 7 weeks from going gold I'm assuming there are answers to these questions.
 

a zoojoo

Banned
My take away from your post. I feel disgusted.

Non-Halo related but still relevant: CNN Guest Blames Video Games For Dark Knight Rises Colorado Shooting
Oh-Boy-here-we-go-again.jpg

And back on ignore. Someone tell me if Kyle ever gets over himself.
Don't let him get to you. There are many people on this Forum that believe that you guys will make a good Halo game for the most part.
My hero. Time to start using that ignore button on the high school members.
Fuck.
Heckfu held his hands to his face as he sat outside the ballroom. He had just had to turn down one of his biggest admirers in front of the whole school.
"I didn't mean to ruin your prom, Sai," he thought.
Suddenly, the school bully knocked open the side door and made his way. His sidekick followed right behind him.
"Hey kyleJ," Heckfu said. "Hey Overdoziz."
They stumbled over to where Heckfu sat. "I heard you make a request to the DJ for Super Slayer." He could smell the alcohol from their breath as they walked closer. "Ever since they banned Squad Slayer from the school dances, your little requests have been getting on my fucking nerves!" KyleJ grabbed Heckfu by the neck and lifted him up.
A ZooJoo walked out of the dance and screamed. "Hey! You stop that right now, Kyle J!"
Overdoziz yelled back. "Oh yeah? Who's going to stop us? Starwolf? XX Overkill?"
A ZooJoo ran back inside. KyleJ turned back to heckfu and cocked back his arm to punch Heckfu square in the face. His sleeve rolled back, revealing the tattoo on his arm. RIP EazyB. before he could punch heckfu, the doors opened again.
In the doorway, stood an intimidating figure. KyleJ dropped heckfu and turned towards the door.
"Thought you weren't coming to Prom, Frankie."
"I hope you weren't bullying Heckfu," said Frankie.
"Yeah. What are you gonna do about it? Bring Squad Slayer back and ban it again?"
Overdoziz forced out a mocking laugh.
KyleJ walked over and cracked his knuckles. Frankie leaned over and called to his friend David Ellis. "I'll go get Principal Bish," said A Zoo Joo.
Heckfu made his way over to Frankie, rolling up his sleeves. "Kyle, if you and your friend even touch me, I'll make you pay."
David Ellis matched up with Overdoziz, Kyle matched up with Frankie. Kyle threw the first punch.
xxJuicesxx walked out to the scene and yelled inside. "FIGHT!"
The fight started and the crowd grew larger as the fight went on. Punches were thrown everywhere from the four of them.
The crowd started chanting, "1v1!" "1v1!"
David ellis and Overdoz1z stopped fighting and let Frankie and KyleJ fight themselves.
Kyle grabbed Frankies head and said, "Bring squad slayer back!"
Frankie, in headlock, gasped, "Just trust me!"
Then Principal Bish walked out from the crowd and yelled, "All four of you! Banned! and you too heckfu!" Heckfu started crying. "I had nothing to do with this!" And thats how Heckfu's prom got ruined.
I feel like that dude who went to the prom without a date. Wahrer Machine, where are you?
 

heckfu

Banned
Heckfu held his hands to his face as he sat outside the ballroom. He had just had to turn down one of his biggest admirers in front of the whole school.
"I didn't mean to ruin your prom, Sai," he thought.
Suddenly, the school bully knocked open the side door and made his way. His sidekick followed right behind him.
"Hey kyleJ," Heckfu said. "Hey Overdoziz."
They stumbled over to where Heckfu sat. "I heard you make a request to the DJ for Super Slayer." He could smell the alcohol from their breath as they walked closer. "Ever since they banned Squad Slayer from the school dances, your little requests have been getting on my fucking nerves!" KyleJ grabbed Heckfu by the neck and lifted him up.
A Zoo Joo walked out of the dance and screamed. "Hey! You stop that right now, Kyle J!"
Overdoziz yelled back. "Oh yeah? Who's going to stop us? Starwolf? XX Overkill?"
A Zoo Joo ran back inside. KyleJ turned back to heckfu and cocked back his arm to punch Heckfu square in the face. His sleeve rolled back, revealing the tattoo on his arm. RIP EazyB. before he could punch heckfu, the doors opened again.
In the doorway, stood an intimidating figure. KyleJ dropped heckfu and turned towards the door.
"Thought you weren't coming to Prom, Frankie."
"I hope you weren't bullying Heckfu," said Frankie.
"Yeah. What are you gonna do about it? Bring Squad Slayer back and ban it again?"
Overdoziz forced out a mocking laugh.
KyleJ walked over and cracked his knuckles. Frankie leaned over and called to his friend David Ellis. "I'll go get Principal Bish," said A Zoo Joo.
Heckfu made his way over to Frankie, rolling up his sleeves. "Kyle, if you and your friend even touch me, I'll make you pay."
David Ellis matched up with Overdoziz, Kyle matched up with Frankie. Kyle threw the first punch.
xxJuicesxx walked out to the scene and yelled inside. "FIGHT!"
The fight started and the crowd grew larger as the fight went on. Punches were thrown everywhere from the four of them.
The crowd started chanting, "1v1!" "1v1!"
David ellis and Overdoz1z stopped fighting and let Frankie and KyleJ fight themselves.
Kyle grabbed Frankies head and said, "Bring squad slayer back!"
Frankie, in headlock, gasped, "Just trust me!"
Then Principal Bish walked out from the crowd and yelled, "All four of you! Banned! and you too heckfu!" Heckfu started crying. "I had nothing to do with this!" And thats how Heckfu's prom got ruined.

Hahaha wtf is this. Masterful.
 
Well, it's a non-answer. The question was "I'm concerned about Halo 4 playlists because 343 control of Reach has been bad". Frankie's response was that they'll be catering to different types of people in Halo 4. Of course they will. But does 343 have a better suite of analytics for playlist data? What lessons have been learned from Reach? Will 343 be attempting more transparent playlist management? Will the community have a forum to submit playlist changes? How will Forge maps be integrated? If the game is 7 weeks from going gold I'm assuming there are answers to these questions.
There must be answers to them, but I don't believe they are ready to provide them yet for whatever reason until a time is appropriate.
With their current focus to better the MP experience they've shown their progress with these builds.
They're showning their responses to the community by meeting the concerns expressed from Hardcore players that feel uneasy, cautious about their management.
IMO, I don't see Reach getting better updates anytime soon, but at least it's not as bad as what Bungie left it to be. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
Every single person I've met that have gave the most cruel critism about Halo and 343 saying its Dead, it's Shit, They are Ruining Halo, it sounds like CoD in every discussion I had to encounter to get a valid opinion was struck down by what they saw at E3, Rtx, Sdcc. Pretty Ironic and Amusing to see their sudden change of mood and opinions about Halo and 343.
 

Akai__

Member
Good games monsterfracas and Franklinator and the other guy (lol). Finally I played with you guys, even when it was only for 3 games. :)
 
It's a reasonable concern. Matchmaking is like being a DJ at a Wedding - you can hook people with the old crowd pleasers - Team Slayer, Bon Jovi - but there are lots of different people at a wedding.
Right, but it also depends on whom you invite, and whom you are trying to please. The Halo community has accumulated a lot of different guests in the form of Grifball and Living Dead and Firefight/SpOps and MLG and everything else I've forgotten over the years, and catering to all of them is a big and improbable ask.

I broadly agree with your defense, but for many the very concern here is that you try to tick so many boxes that the act of ticking them becomes cursory. So saying "we'll try to balance interests and please everyone" plays right into their fears; that by doing so you won't please anyone wholeheartedly by nailing a core ruleset comprehensible to all. A big issue people had with Reach, especially after the hand-off, is that what "Reach gameplay" was became so diffuse and so variable that the experience became inconsistent, and downright confusing for those who don't follow the playlist changes in great detail. That is, the very complexity invited by trying to create enough options to 'simply' please everyone is self-defeating, and this is compounded by the opacity of the rules and scoring for gametypes, which leads to frustration for those who don't know what's going on, and blind rage for those who have to share a team with them.

Most people, the reasonable ones, don't hate that the game offers options they don't want to play. Rather they worry that the proliferation of those options dilutes all of them, and that any core concept of how the game plays gets lost or at least hopelessly confused in the shuffle.
 
Today I am driving with Simon through the desert area of the Ark. Simon likes to blow up things and that's why he is using the Rocket Launcher. Simon is standing on my passenger seat. I am driving a M274 Ultra-Light All-Terrain Vehicle. Simon and I are not friends for a long time. We met in a Pelican on a blitz drop on the Ark.
Scientists have long wondered what would happen when a human being acquired everything that he/she desired. Now that he has his hoodie, Hypertrooper has completely lost his grip on reality and forsaken his sense of self. I'm guessing this was 343's plan all along.

So you hired a CD player? Cool.
As with all of your funny posts I tried my hardest not to laugh, but still did.

Dammit, when is GAF getting a Like button?
Bregmann Roche Thanked Sai-kun for this helpful post.

Heckfu held his hands to his face as he sat outside the ballroom. He had just had to turn down one of his biggest admirers in front of the whole school.
<snip>
Then Principal Bish walked out from the crowd and yelled, "All four of you! Banned! and you too heckfu!" Heckfu started crying. "I had nothing to do with this!" And thats how Heckfu's prom got ruined.
Ok, which one of these characters represents "repressed teenage desire" and which represents "abstinence"? I know the answers are in the text, but I can't pass up the chance to ask the author.

It's a THANK button, people. A THANK BUTTON.
0 users Liked Enfinit for this helpful post.
 
Right, but it also depends on whom you invite, and whom you are trying to please. The Halo community has accumulated a lot of different guests in the form of Grifball and Living Dead and Firefight/SpOps and MLG and everything else I've forgotten over the years, and catering to all of them is a big and improbable ask.

I broadly agree with your defense, but for many the very concern here is that you try to tick so many boxes that the act of ticking them becomes cursory. So saying "we'll try to balance interests and please everyone" plays right into their fears; that by doing so you won't please anyone wholeheartedly by nailing a core ruleset comprehensible to all. A big issue people had with Reach, especially after the hand-off, is that what "Reach gameplay" was became so diffuse and so variable that the experience became inconsistent, and downright confusing for those who don't follow the playlist changes in great detail. That is, the very complexity invited by trying to create enough options to 'simply' please everyone is self-defeating, and this is compounded by the opacity of the rules and scoring for gametypes, which leads to frustration for those who don't know what's going on, and blind rage for those who have to share a team with them.

Most people, the reasonable ones, don't hate that the game offers options they don't want to play. Rather they worry that the proliferation of those options dilutes all of them, and that any core concept of how the game plays gets lost or at least hopelessly confused in the shuffle.

Clapping.gif

Bravo, sir. Well said.
 
It's a reasonable concern. Matchmaking is like being a DJ at a Wedding - you can hook people with the old crowd pleasers - Team Slayer, Bon Jovi - but there are lots of different people at a wedding. Old people, young people, cool people, buttrock fans. A great DJ will pick a playlist that has something for everyone, but adapts to the audience. He or she will start pulling tracks out of his boxes that he thinks the audience is going to like - and when they do, they dance. They have fun. Everyone is happy.

Every now and then he or she will accidentally put in a Macarena or Who Let the Dogs Out, and only Granny Wu will still be dancing, but even she deserves one turn on the floor.

Some of the people at the party will simply plug in their headphones and sit at their own table, head bobbing to MLG, or some other new outfit.

But a great DJ, a truly influential and amazing DJ, will introduce the audience to a track they all love, and that they'll be humming for years.

When our DJs show up at this particular wedding, for the first dance, they'll have a small box of records. Ones they know will work, more or less, and keep people dancing. Adapting to the crowd, growing the selection slowly but keeping it tight, focused, good, that's the hard part. These are new DJs and they have a couple of new tracks.

Cragmire fo leif.


Drop the mic.

All joking aside.. you know what would've fixed all those problems of matchmaking playlists and trying to please everyone?

Custom Games Browser


The filters could've been made in a way that wouldn't leave millions of options which was the main reason it was stated to have not been included. I don't know man, I just think that having the Custom Games Browser alongside a streamlined Matchmaking experience would've put Halo in a league of its own all over again.. but I digress.

I like me. :(

I like you too. :]
 
Most people, the reasonable ones, don't hate that the game offers options they don't want to play. Rather they worry that the proliferation of those options dilutes all of them, and that any core concept of how the game plays gets lost or at least hopelessly confused in the shuffle.

This. So much.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Halo just needs to adopt a games server list already. Would save us from all this bitching (which I think is valid although not months before the release). Why are they so reluctant to change? The gameplay and all these other things can change but not the way you connect with others online. Why?
 

Overdoziz

Banned
So who was 343 catering to when they replaced Squad Slayer with Super Slayer? The people who wanted a replica of the Team Slayer playlist but with TU settings? But then why did 343 change the settings in Super Slayer? To cater to the people who wanted a half-assed version of Squad Slayer? If you don't explain decisions like that how do you expect me to trust you?
 
Scientists have long wondered what would happen when a human being acquired everything that he/she desired. Now that he has his hoodie, Hypertrooper has completely lost his grip on reality and forsaken his sense of self. I'm guessing this was 343's plan all along.
Page 343. Now I would ask if I could get a hoodie. But this time is over. I am lone wolf dog who's roaming around this world with no purpose.
 
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