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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.

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daedalius

Member
BigShow36 said:
I'm not terribly concerned about "exploitation," I'm concerned that the AA's will simply slow the game down. Armor Lock wasn't "abused," but it was literally a pause button in MP that also blocked everything. Hardlight shields slow the game down, people seeing through walls slows the game down, a turret blocking an entrance slows the game down, people camo camping slows the game down.

Halo is already slow enough.
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These appear to be valid concerns we agree upon. However I don't particularly think Halo is 'too slow' outside of vanilla Reach; although 85% bloom is arguably a bit slow, not to mention the dice-roll that is bloom most of the time.

ZB with increased speed seems about as 'fast' as I'd want the game to be, especially if strafing is important once again.

Tawpgun said:
Armor Lock wasn't terribly exploitative too. It just ruined combat. Hard Light shield has the potential, to do the same, just not on the same scale.

Also, Jetpack is pretty exploitative in its nature.

Then we have things like regen barriers and auto sentries. Yeah, we don't know exactly how their work, but by their name alone you can see how they can lead to some problems.
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No, no, wtf. Those aren't 'exploits'. Those are things that you don't like and disagree with their implementation.

An exploit is literally cheating, or breaking game mechanics willingly. Bungie made Armor lock to be a pause button, its not exploiting, no matter how much we dislike it.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
daedalius said:
No, no, wtf. Those aren't 'exploits'. Those are things that you don't like and disagree with their implementation.

An exploit is literally cheating, or breaking game mechanics willingly. Bungie made Armor lock to be a pause button, its not exploiting, no matter how much we dislike it.
Click to expand...
Pause Button With Uber Invincible Shields of Noob Destruction!
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Devolution said:
I was never too much of a fan of the run for the power weapons game in H2 but at least BRs mitigated some of that bullshit. I recall dumbass spawn camping on Burial Mounds because the default spawn was SMG against two snipers (you could scoop up beam if you bumrushed blue), rockets and sword.

I await whatever stupid shit H4 has to offer right off the bat like every other Halo game.
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In retrospect, Burial Mounds was a neat concept but oh god the objective spawns were all "I dunno lol"
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
daedalius said:
No, no, wtf. Those aren't 'exploits'. Those are things that you don't like and disagree with their implementation.

An exploit is literally cheating, or breaking game mechanics willingly. Bungie made Armor lock to be a pause button, its not exploiting, no matter how much we dislike it.
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Umm...

Active Camo sniping is not cheating, and its not breaking any mechanics such as things like BXR's and such would do.

Bungie knew you could camo snipe. They put it in the game anyway. If camo sniping is close to being exploitative, then so is jetpack ruining map flow and making cover irrelevant.

And I never said Armor Lock was exploitative. I said it just ruined combat.
 
D

daedalius

Member
Tawpgun said:
Umm...

Active Camo sniping is not cheating, and its not breaking any mechanics such as things like BXR's and such would do.

Bungie knew you could camo snipe. They put it in the game anyway. If camo sniping is close to being exploitative, then so is jetpack ruining map flow and making cover irrelevant.

And I never said Armor Lock was exploitative. I said it just ruined combat.
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Exactly why I said camo sniping is 'close' to exploitative.

That is something I'd personally consider to be exploitative, but really its just another awful design decision by Bungie.

At this point we are arguing the semantics of 'exploits' vs 'things we don't like', they are different things and should not be used interchangeably.
 
H

heckfu

Banned
iExplicit Chaos said:
Lurk on one page refresh, see theres two more pages and I go to the last one.
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Well there's the problem. Gaf isn't about busting the news wide open, it's about sharing it. And with sharing comes participating and listening to others as well. I'd suggest doing more reading than posting which sounds like your current setup.
 
F

Franklinator

Member
heckfu said:
Well there's the problem. Gaf isn't about busting the news wide open, it's about sharing it. And with sharing comes participating and listening to others as well. I'd suggest doing more reading than posting which sounds like your current setup.
Click to expand...

To add to that, be like me and never bother to post news. It will almost always be old, especially in a thread like this.
 
D

Devolution

Member
FyreWulff said:
In retrospect, Burial Mounds was a neat concept but oh god the objective spawns were all "I dunno lol"
Click to expand...

It was definitely better with BR/warthog. Objective games were a laugh and a half if red team could pin down blue. Just nade the fuck out of the rocks. Oh and of course you could get on top of the rocks and even the map, which made for even more stupidity.

As for this AA talk, I don't think you can truly anticipate the uses and abuses which is why I just prefer stripped down gameplay.
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
daedalius said:
So putting your back to a wall for the 5 seconds hardlight shield lasts is exploiting?

Oh, also you can kill them with a single grenade or melee if their shields are down, through the hard light shield, but its exploiting.

Camo sniping is about the only 'exploitative' thing I can think of. And no one can even comment on the AAs we haven't seen, so don't. There is a difference between 'not liking' something, and it being an 'exploit'. Cheese is about equal to 'not liking' something.
Click to expand...

It isn't an exploit but it is something that stops the game for 5 seconds if you don't have any grenades. Isn't that basically the complaint about armor lock?
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
320GB HDD arrived. Looking for the 360's PSU in the move boxes. Time to download all the DLC again but just get Prisoner.

plz no more halo 1 maps
 
D

daedalius

Member
Tha Robbertster said:
It isn't an exploit but it is something that stops the game for 5 seconds if you don't have any grenades. Isn't that basically the complaint about armor lock?
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He has his back to a corner, perhaps shields down because why else would he be cowering in the corner behind his shield? Throw a nade at his feet, and he is dead?

If you don't have a nade, yea, it gives him another chance at a fight with you, that's the reason he took hard light shield instead of something else. If he didn't have his back to a wall, you could tell your teammate to easily flank him.

That's obviously something you don't like.
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
daedalius said:
He has his back to a corner, perhaps shields down because why else would he be cowering in the corner behind his shield? Throw a nade at his feet, and he is dead?

If you don't have a nade, yea, it gives him another chance at a fight with you, that's the reason he took hard light shield instead of something else. If he didn't have his back to a wall, you could tell your teammate to easily flank him.

That's obviously something you don't like.
Click to expand...

Or he tells his team mates to come in and kill me in the time he is invulnerable. Or he has a shotgun in his back pocket and just as you walk in to kill him, he switches to shotgun and gets an easy kill. Hard light shield is indeed an AA that I don't like on paper because the only purpose it seems to serve is to slow the game down. If you're not hiding in a corner with the Shield, I wouldn't call it an exploit but it still doesn't sound good to me.
 
E

Enfinit

Member
O2E3


k3PbL.gif
Click to expand...

Hoverboards confirmed.
 
D

Devolution

Member
Tha Robbertster said:
Or he tells his team mates to come in and kill me in the time he is invulnerable. Or he has a shotgun in his back pocket and just as you walk in to kill him, he switches to shotgun and gets an easy kill. Hard light shield is indeed an AA that I don't like on paper because the only purpose it seems to serve is to slow the game down. If you're not hiding in a corner with the Shield, I wouldn't call it an exploit but it still doesn't sound good to me.
Click to expand...

So far my experiences with AAs are they aren't utilized unless people can specifically exploit or troll with them. This is why I'd rather play a game without them.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
On the subject of AA: I've seen less use of Armor Lock in BTB and more use of the jetpack. Vanilla Team Slayer is still riddled with Armor Lock.
 
T

Tha Robbertster

Member
Devolution said:
So far my experiences with AAs are they aren't utilized unless people can specifically exploit or troll with them. This is why I'd rather play a game without them.
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Really the only way I could enjoy AA's is as they work in MLG right now. As power ups, things you have to work for to get. Not something you get to spawn with.
 
T

TS x Massacre

Member
A little late to the topic on the last page but I really, really hope 343 makes an awesome doubles playlist. Its easily one of my favorite since its much easier to get one bro to play with rather than 3+ bros.

Also i like really small maps. Middy <3
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Know your nouns: HaloGAF Edition

JHall said:
You mean ordinance drops right? Overshield and Speed boost (I think that's what it's called) are part of those. Now if camo was apart of ordinance drops instead of an AA I think a lot of people would be completely fine with that.

Now I have a question, will ordinance drops be only in Infinity Slayer? I can't imagine playing CTF and having someone stat on their side of the map the entire game just to be rewarded with a power weapon/up. My rage would be endless. There would be absolutely no incentive to push for power positions or the objective and map movement/flow would be really dull.
Click to expand...

Boomwood said:
The personal ordnance (points filling meter) is Infinity gametypes only.
The global ordnance is just the new weapon drop system, instead of simply appearing in static positions at static times.
(pretty sure old system is still possible through forge though)
Click to expand...

Steelyuhas said:
Very true.

Separate Infinity Slayer and "Team Slayer" playlists would be incredibly stupid.


To add to your original question, it is unknown if there will be "infinity" objective gametypes, aka ones with personal ordnance drops.
Click to expand...

Steelyuhas said:
Oh lawd, if Halo 4 MM were to start like that, we've already lost. That would be terrible.

The only difference between infinity and "regular" slayer is personal ordnance or not. For that to make them separate playlists is ridiculous, and would set a horrible precedent for Halo 4 MM.

War Games playlists:
Team Slayer
Rumble Pit
Team Objective
BTB
Team Doubles (I don't really see the point of this at launch do to the map sizes in H4, but I know they will have it there anyway.)
Team Hardcore (possibly not at launch)
Team SWAT*
Team Snipers*

Weekend playlists (rotation of action sack, Zombies, grifball)

*SWAT and Snipers is another situation where they will be there, just being realistic about that.

8 permanent playlists, outside of an argument for a 9th permanent playlist being Multi-Team, I don't see any reason for more playlists than that. I feel like this is a generous list, I would like even less playlists.


Ship it.
Click to expand...

mhi said:
Eh ?

Don't know how the game is gonna handle playlists but from I saw 'ordinance drops'(maybe they had another name?) work pretty much like care packages in COD. After reaching a certain number of kills w/out dying you get a powerup.
Click to expand...

_Computer_ said:
Infinity slayer is personal ordinance drops. So in regular slayer the weapons spawn in somewhat random yet predictable places. Everyone in the game will have a heads up on when and where a weapon spawns. Via some kind of on screen display. Is this correct?
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wwm0nkey said:
Honestly its very rare you will get more than 2 Ordinance Drops in a match. After your first one it seems to take longer to reach the next one and so on.

So its not like every 5 kills someone gets one.
Click to expand...

1. Ordnance (noun): military weapons with their equipment, ammunition, etc.
2. Ordinance (noun): an authoritative rule or law; a decree or command.

To those of you that used the word correctly: you get a cookie. To those of you that didn't: In the future, when you are unsure, please combine the two words into one super noun. Ordninance. What is that? Weapons that have the effect of law.

Thank you.

Devolution said:
So far my experiences with AAs are they aren't utilized unless people can specifically exploit or troll with them. This is why I'd rather play a game without them.
Click to expand...
Apologies because I can't remember: Have you played Halo 4?
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
TS x Massacre said:
A little late to the topic on the last page but I really, really hope 343 makes an awesome doubles playlist. Its easily one of my favorite since its much easier to get one bro to play with rather than 3+ bros.

Also i like really small maps. Middy <3
Click to expand...

Doubles has never really gelled well with my playstyle. I dunno, I feel it just doesn't work on the majority of Halo maps. Even the midsized maps end up being a game of sneaky-sneaky. Midship and the arena style maps are all fine for it, because they're small and have open sightlines, but even maps like Guardian or the Pit can end up being a game of cat and mouse.
 
Z

Zoso Achilles

Member
From near the top of the page, I just want to put my thoughts in.

daedalius said:
No, no, wtf. Those aren't 'exploits'. Those are things that you don't like and disagree with their implementation.

An exploit is literally cheating, or breaking game mechanics willingly. Bungie made Armor lock to be a pause button, its not exploiting, no matter how much we dislike it.
Click to expand...
You can force your teammates through walls and other map geometry by armor locking on their heads. If you hold armor lock for the full duration, your shields begin to recharge before exiting, requiring a minimum extra 2 shots to kill. After exiting armor lock, the invincibility remains for a few steps, commonly known as the "frosting effect." The problem is compounded by latency, allowing even longer invincibility. Armor lock can EMP shields by simply popping in and out, when bungie made it clear after the beta that you should have to hold it longer to get that effect.

With jetpack, you can exploit the map and reach areas not intended to be reachable. Have you ever seen someone with a sniper on top of the crane on Headlong? I have. They can commonly bypass "Return to the Battlefield" zones by standing on a pixel at the edge of barrier.

Exploits. Not intended to be used in such a manner.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Dax01 said:
Know your nouns: HaloGAF Edition

1. Ordnance (noun): military weapons with their equipment, ammunition, etc.
2. Ordinance (noun): an authoritative rule or law; a decree or command.

To those of you that used the word correctly: you get a cookie. To those of you that didn't: In the future, when you are unsure, please combine the two words into one super noun. Ordninance. What is that? Weapons that have the effect of law.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Nom nom nom cookie.
 
D

daedalius

Member
Zoso Achilles said:
From near the top of the page, I just want to put my thoughts in.


You can force your teammates through walls and other map geometry by armor locking on their heads. If you hold armor lock for the full duration, your shields begin to recharge before exiting, requiring a minimum extra 2 shots to kill. After exiting armor lock, the invincibility remains for a few steps, commonly known as the "frosting effect." The problem is compounded by latency, allowing even longer invincibility. Armor lock can EMP shields by simply popping in and out, when bungie made it clear after the beta that you should have to hold it longer to get that effect.

With jetpack, you can exploit the map and reach areas not intended to be reachable. Have you ever seen someone with a sniper on top of the crane on Headlong? I have. They can commonly bypass "Return to the Battlefield" zones by standing on a pixel at the edge of barrier.

Exploits. Not intended to be used in such a manner.
Click to expand...

Ok, you just named specific exploits, that doesn't mean using armor abilities in general are exploits.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Zoso Achilles said:
From near the top of the page, I just want to put my thoughts in.


You can force your teammates through walls and other map geometry by armor locking on their heads. If you hold armor lock for the full duration, your shields begin to recharge before exiting, requiring a minimum extra 2 shots to kill. After exiting armor lock, the invincibility remains for a few steps, commonly known as the "frosting effect." The problem is compounded by latency, allowing even longer invincibility. Armor lock can EMP shields by simply popping in and out, when bungie made it clear after the beta that you should have to hold it longer to get that effect.

With jetpack, you can exploit the map and reach areas not intended to be reachable. Have you ever seen someone with a sniper on top of the crane on Headlong? I have. They can commonly bypass "Return to the Battlefield" zones by standing on a pixel at the edge of barrier.

Exploits. Not intended to be used in such a manner.
Click to expand...
That's what I put about Armor Lock Glitching in two threads ago. Called it Body Surfing lol
 
Z

Zoso Achilles

Member
daedalius said:
Ok, you just named specific exploits, that doesn't mean using armor abilities in general are exploits.
Click to expand...
I thought that's what we were taking about, the fact that they can be used in an exploitive manner. Calling a device in a game an exploit by itself doesn't make sense, and I didn't think anyone was trying to make that point.

Edit: I still maintain that if you activate the camo or jetpack AA in Halo 4 you should instantly die.
 
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