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[CyReN]

TOP men. And an old friend named Dave. Who they were mocking and donging on with equal gusto.

If I post correctly do I win a beta?

Spoiler

dont kill me

 

[The Librarian]

“When you get an ordinance drop, you get a choice of some grenades, a weapon, and a power-up,” Ellis explains.

That's not the right wooooooooooooord.

 

[Tashi]

I don't think there has been any worse consistency of clarification on how a game plays or even how it functions at a base level. There's speculation and then there's what we have now; where you drop information without any context and are forced to piece things together from multiple sources. For the love of god, can we actually get a good, clear information drop? With Bungie I felt it was fairly clear...



I agree with this post 100%. For multiplayer I always feel as if it should be even ground. I mean, I'm not going to enter Olympic running with all my trophies to beat the shit out of the other runners because I've been running since I was 5.

In regards to the bolded, I feel if you are going to reward long time players for playing the game in a gameplay manner, do it in modes where you aren't affecting other players. Do it in SpOps and campaign only.

What if I could only match people who also have unlocked specializations?

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

That's the thing though Karl, I think people are way over-hyping these spec perks you get. Who's to say I even want to replace the "perks" I am using at the time with a spec "Perk" when I get it? Maybe what I already had is better.

We may be overreacting to something that isn't a big deal.

 

[Trey]

I just played some CS: GO and with how much fun I had in that game it allayed some of the growing fears I had for Halo 4.

That kind of inequality is also present in the Call of Duty franchise, of which I'm none too fond. We'll see how this goes. I'm excited.

 

[a zoojoo]

That's not the right wooooooooooooord.

lol are you an english teacher?

 

[Tashi]

That's the thing though Karl, I think people are way over-hyping these spec perks you get. Who's to say I even want to replace the "perks" I am using at the time with a spec "Perk" when I get it? Maybe what I already had is better.

We may be overreacting to something that isn't a big deal.

SPECIALIZATIONS WILL CHANGE HALO MULTIPLAYER FOREVER

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

lol are you an english teacher?

Less about grammar police, more about people STILL spelling it wrong after so long lol

 

[Striker]

Even Halo 3 experience ranks where good because you could only gain it based on wins, now we have a progressive system which ranks everyone up regardless of their win or loss it sorts of take out that drive to actually want to win a game.

3's EXP didn't get you anything except bars below your military service rank, or more stars. Obviously, Halo 4's experience is going to different greatly from that.

The rest of this whole deal is nothing surprising. My bar is quite low and my optimism for the game's playlists are also not much. I'm at that part where I don't think much has been revealed that gets me excited too much

 

[kittens]

I don't really get it. Do you have a different specialization based on what armor you wear? Will you not be able to wear whatever armor you want and use whatever specialization you want?

This really needs to be answered.

What does this mean?

1) When we get shot while scoped, we do not get knocked out of scope.

or

2) When we get shot while scoped, our reticule bounces around less?

If it's 2) - does our reticule bounce around when we get shot?

And this.

That's simply not correct. That mod has no effect on firing from the hip. Only when you're zoomed in.

Yeah, I had a feeling they got that bit wrong.

It kinda sucks how 343 keeps getting screwed in articles by other organizations. No one can explain what's going on clearly

Yup. :-\

Context has always been what's missing with Halo 4 stuff. I mean, as an example, the Halo 4 LE was announced in the middle of May, and "early specializations!!!" was a big bullet point, where everybody immediately stopped, like someone scratched a record, and said "hey wait what's a specialization?" And now, three months later, we're finally getting the definition of something that was namedropped all that time ago. With this, the article talks about regenerating vehicle health faster. But we know approximately zilch about the vehicle health system, so that could mean anything. It's very frustrating.

It's awesome that David and Frank take the time to come in here and elaborate on things, but with big stuff like that, should it really be necessary?

Agree 100%.

So Bad

It's a very trying time to be a Halo fan. The Reach situation the last few months and now news that I could have a waypoint over my head just for killing my enemy in a shooter game. Or have a team of 8 in BTB with the stay in scope perk enabled raining down unanswerable death with 3x zoom DMR's. Or have my opponent choose rockets every time on his Personal Ordnance 3x fruit machine token. The quitting and idling in this game will make Reach look mild in comparison.

This more or less captures the skepticism I'm feeling right now.

Nope, actually. I've been a member for a couple of months now. I'm just coming on today for the first time because the NeoGaf powers that be decided to activate my account the same day I bought Skyrim.

Cool. Welcome.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

SPECIALIZATIONS WILL CHANGE HALO MULTIPLAYER FOREVER

IGN creating page views. Enough said.

 

[CyReN]

Tashi gets a good username and Kittens back, yes I'm slow. Congrats to both parties.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

That's the thing though Karl, I think people are way over-hyping these spec perks you get. Who's to say I even want to replace the "perks" I am using at the time with a spec "Perk" when I get it? Maybe what I already had is better.

We may be overreacting to something that isn't a big deal.

At the end of the day, it's just more variables and shit you have to deal with, getting further and further away from starting off on the same foot and going into battle with an idea of what your opponent's options are. The bulletin can clarify it, but they are what they are. It's more perks/armor abilities.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

SPECIALIZATIONS WILL CHANGE HALO MULTIPLAYER FOREVER

For. Eh. Ver.

 

[nillapuddin]

Would you rather carry 2 primary weapons or walk faster with a turret?

 

[Tashi]

Tashi gets a good username and Kittens back, yes I'm slow. Congrats to both parties.

Thanks.

Also I may or may not need your THC connections for something. Do I still have your cell number? lol

edit: Actually I rebooted my phone so I lost my numbers. Do you still have mine? Text meh?

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

At the end of the day, it's just more variables and shit you have to deal with, getting further and further away from starting off on the same foot and going into battle with an idea of what your opponent's options are. The bulletin can clarify it, but they are what they are. It's more perks/armor abilities.

I can see this point more than most, a lot of people want a 100% even playing field, and I can respect that. Based on some of the descriptions though, these specs seem to be there for Infinity gametypes, being that two of them are about seeing drops better.

I know they'll have some "basic" playlists, I'm just interested to see what specs do for those in non-Infinity playlists.

 

[TS x Massacre]

Would you rather carry 2 primary weapons or walk faster with a turret?

Thank you, about time someone said it.

And thanks for your well put together post showing people that it takes a spot in either your tactical or support package slot, not an additional ability.

 

[CyReN]

Thanks.

Also I may or may not need your THC connections for something. Do I still have your cell number? lol

Check PM's.

 

[User 73706]

So I tried to sum up what I think the system is. It might just be a bit of clarity for some people to get their head around. Maybe someone can confirm if it's accurate.

Very well-put. I had no idea what it was all supposed to progress like before seeing this.

I wouldn't even begin to try and put a number on it. Whatever number I selected would just be a guess.

Perhaps this is a more approachable question: in Reach, there's a lot of ranks with uneven EXP gaps between them which make it feel like more of a grind/trek than some of the ranks, even if a few still come after these tedious ones. Is there anything like this in 4 or is the progression more linear?

 

[Caja 117]

3's EXP didn't get you anything except bars below your military service rank, or more stars. Obviously, Halo 4's experience is going to different greatly from that.

I meant the individual rank for every playlist. Point is that getting gifts for something that doesn't discriminate if you win or loose, is not the same (or better) as something you have to actually win to get it.

 

[Vire]

I think my eyes watered a little when I read Ghaleon's last post.

Video games.

I think I need to go to bed...

The thought of Halo being ruined is too much to bear.

 

[Roche]

I can see this point more than most, a lot of people want a 100% even playing field, and I can respect that. Based on some of the descriptions though, these specs seem to be there for Infinity gametypes, being that two of them are about seeing drops better.

I know they'll have some "basic" playlists, I'm just interested to see what specs do for those in non-Infinity playlists.

Well we saw how well Halo Reach worked out for people who wanted even playing fields. The game is designed around loadouts and perks and as a result the "basic" playlists wouldn't play as well as those with the perks and such. If the game were designed without perks in the first place then obviously this wouldn't be an issue.

For instance playing Reach without sprint (or any armor abilities) is pretty awful because all of the maps are designed with this in mind.

 

[nillapuddin]

Thank you, about time someone said it.

And thanks for your well put together post showing people that it takes a spot in either your tactical or support package slot, not an additional ability.

I appreciate it, I understood what the article said there was just so much mass confusion going on I dont think anybody "got me"

Im frustrated because I understand, and I just want to try and help everyone understand but it went crazy.

The bulletin will clarify, the lines between Specialization, Armor and Perks was blurred to hell in that article


p.s.
big shout out to Hydranockz who prepared a great page explaining it also

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I think my eyes watered a little when I read Ghaleon's last post.

Video games.

I think I need to go to bed...

The thought of Halo being ruined is too much to bear.

You should reaaaaallly just take a breather, and wait for the in-depth explanations and the game to come out first.

 

[Fuchsdh]

There will be a very sterile, clear explanation in tomorrow's Bulletin and Bravo's video (above) is a lot clearer than the thread chatter - but he's also guessing about how some of this works. Also I believe Bravo has used some of these abilities. If he hasn't, a lot of the MLG guys working on the strategy guide have.

Here's my TL;DR version - after a level cap is reached you can further tune your Spartan a little bit.

Thanks, Frankie. Bravo did a good job, and surprisingly the IGN piece wasn't as fluffy and dense as usual.

Looking forward to the bulletin.

You should reaaaaallly just take a breather, and wait for the in-depth explanations and the game to come out first.

Agreed. Ultimately though it's a matter of playing the game. This stuff could be really cool and dynamic and complex in a fun way, or it could be awkward, off-putting and unpredictable in a not fun-at-all way. Good thing about being a stoic is you can keep your hype and cynicism levels in check and keep calm while you wait

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Let the boosting begin....

I can definitely see boosters being a bigger problem this time around once new specializations become available. Hopefully releasing them periodically will alleviate some of the boosters..

 

[Vire]

I can see why 343 keeps so much info close to their chest.

Because people will flip out once they hear about all the awful changes.

Et tu Brute et tu?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

For instance playing Reach without sprint (or any armor abilities) is pretty awful because all of the maps are designed with this in mind.

And you seen how big those Halo 4 maps are at E3 WITH Sprint/AAs. I can't imagine 4v4 on those things, especially without Sprint. And I don't want to rely on grey Forge maps to provide all the classic experience.

We're less then 90 days from the release of Halo 4. I pray sometime between now and then I feel better about the future of Halo's multiplayer. Because it aint lookin' so hot right now, my friend.

 

[feel]

Predictability of outcome is really important when playing a game, as is knowing my opponent's capabilities. When I do X, Y happens. It enables us to make decisions about what to do in a given situation.

With Reach, bloom and armor abilities to various degrees messed with this. That was bad.

Halo 4 appears to be making things worse.

Sometimes when I sneak up on someone sniping, they won't be able to see me coming. Sometimes, they'll be able to see me because of a perk they have active.

Sometimes me pinging them will impair their ability to fire back. Sometimes not because their reticule recoil is suppressed.

Sometimes tagging a rampaging Warthog with an EMP from the plasma pistol will stop it. Some times it will keep going.

Sometimes I'll chew up a Warthog and call out it's low health to my team, who can kill it. Sometimes it's health will come back faster.

Sometimes I'll strip someone's shields at the same time they do mine, and we'll fall back and recharge at the same rate. Sometimes theirs will be faster. Sometimes I'll be faster.

Sometimes I'll hear that guy sprinting up on me with a sword. Sometimes his sound will be suppressed.

And so on. None of these things sound good to me. None of them sound like they will improve the game at all.

I agree with Dax's post on early access to the specializations. Giving gamers who have played longer an advantage over those who have not is poor design. Giving players who spend more money early access to perks is bad marketing.

More and more Halo 4 is turning into something I've been afraid it would turn into, as part of what I loved about Halo's multiplayer game is sapped from it. I hope I'm wrong. I hope the tweaks are all so small as to not matter. But reading the IGN article just made me kinda sad. I wish this wasn't being done to Halo.

Nailed it.

For example in Halo 1 and 2 (and for the most part in 3), if I saw an enemy player that wasn't looking at me, I could make a very informed decision on if I should engage immediately or not based on my weapon's accuracy and time to kill, depending on what he had on him and what distance he was to the nearest cover. I could plan and execute. That felt extremely satisfying and empowering to me, and it was completely pissed on in Reach and Halo 4 with the introduction of so many random variables. Now it's like: Hey, I got the drop on this guy and he's completely unaware of me, here goes nothing... *rolls the armor ability and bloom dice*

 

[Karl2177]

Also, I really think that they should stop using the term "ranking system". This is probably a progression system where you are moving through the ranks without a clear skill based system (akin to Halo 3 rank + EXP). If it ends up being a skill-based system, then they would be turning away many players that can't reach rank 50 or whatever.

What if I could only match people who also have unlocked specializations?

That's one option. I honestly don't prefer it by any means. What made Halo 2 and to an extent 3 nice, is that I could hop on. I didn't have to worry about setting Matchmaking settings to get what I wanted, because everyone was on the same page.

That's the thing though Karl, I think people are way over-hyping these spec perks you get. Who's to say I even want to replace the "perks" I am using at the time with a spec "Perk" when I get it? Maybe what I already had is better.

We may be overreacting to something that isn't a big deal.

Then don't switch if you know it's better. If you don't know the new one is better, then shame on 343i for not giving details on the game's gameplay. Even if we are overhyping what these perks can do, it's still changing the level playing field.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I can see why 343 keeps so much info close to their chest.

Because people will flip out once they hear about all the awful changes.

Again, take a break. It clears your head.

None of us have played the game with these, there is a very high chance that we are overreacting, being that this is Gaf and it's what we do.

Then don't switch if you know it's better. If you don't know the new one is better, then shame on 343i for not giving details on the game's gameplay. Even if we are overhyping what these perks can do, it's still changing the level playing field.

Yeah, but I don't think it's necessarily giving better players better "perks." That was my point.

Nailed it.

For example in Halo 1 and 2 (and for the most part in 3), if I saw an enemy player that wasn't looking at me, I could make a very informed decision on if I should engage or not based on my weapon's accuracy and time to kill, depending on what he had on him and what distance he was to the nearest cover. I could plan and execute. That felt extremely satisfying and empowering to me, and it was completely pissed on in Reach and Halo 4 with the introduction of so many random variables. Now it's like: Hey, I got a drop on this guy and he's completely unaware of me, here goes nothing... *rolls the armor ability and bloom dice*

I get what you're saying, but you are also acting like once you go after that guy in Reach and (maybe) 4 if he has an AA or "perk" you're automatically dead. Instead, you come up on him, see his AA or figure out he has a perk, then still get the chance to outplay him and win anyways. It just adds one more layer of strategy to the encounter (except for Armor lock). I can understand the people that don't like layers, but there is still strategy to playing a game with AAs and "perks." From what we've seen of 4's "perks" and AAs, nothing looks as bad as Reach too.

 

[YourExWife]

Guys. Dongball Slurpbase in like 15 mins? Help pass the time until the bulletin.

 

[Tashi]

Also, I really think that they should stop using the term "ranking system". This is probably a progression system where you are moving through the ranks without a clear skill based system (akin to Halo 3 rank + EXP). If it ends up being a skill-based system, then they would be turning away many players that can't reach rank 50 or whatever.

That's one option. I honestly don't prefer it by any means. What made Halo 2 and to an extent 3 nice, is that I could hop on. I didn't have to worry about setting Matchmaking settings to get what I wanted, because everyone was on the same page.



Then don't switch if you know it's better. If you don't know the new one is better, then shame on 343i for not giving details on the game's gameplay. Even if we are overhyping what these perks can do, it's still changing the level playing field.

Well I don't mean it to be an option. I mean it to be standard/mandatory. It just happens in matchmaking.

 

[Hydranockz]

I don't really get it. Do you have a different specialization based on what armor you wear? Will you not be able to wear whatever armor you want and use whatever specialization you want?

The first 9 levels of the specilization unlock armour skins and pieces. Once you hit level 10 you unlock the special mod which will either be a Tactical or Support mod. So yes, you can wear whatever armour you want and it won't impact gameplay.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Again, take a break. It clears your head.

None of us have played the game with these, there is a very high chance that we are overreacting, being that this is Gaf and it's what we do.

Can't stop the train.

 

[Vire]

When you hired the multiplayer designers are you sure they were fans of Halo and not Call of Duty?

Because none of this is what should be in a Halo game. Halo is all about an even playing field and letting skill decide who wins out. This brings in other variables.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Nailed it.

For example in Halo 1 and 2 (and for the most part in 3), if I saw an enemy player that wasn't looking at me, I could make a very informed decision on if I should engage immediately or not based on my weapon's accuracy and time to kill, depending on what he had on him and what distance he was to the nearest cover. I could plan and execute. That felt extremely satisfying and empowering to me, and it was completely pissed on in Reach and Halo 4 with the introduction of so many random variables. Now it's like: Hey, I got the drop on this guy and he's completely unaware of me, here goes nothing... *rolls the armor ability and bloom dice*

Yup, that's exactly what I'm afraid of. In previous Halo games, I could get the jump on someone and still lose because they were a better player. Now I could lose because they picked different perks than I did.

To the bold, I had a phrase I edited out before posting that was going for something like this. I called it "perk bloom". You never know what you're going to get when you pull the trigger on someone. I think you put it better.

I get what you're saying, but you are also acting like once you go after that guy in Reach and (maybe) 4 if he has an AA or "perk" you're automatically dead. Instead, you come up on him, see his AA or figure out he has a perk, then still get the chance to outplay him and win anyways. It just adds one more layer of strategy to the encounter (except for Armor lock). I can understand the people that don't like layers, but there is still strategy to playing a game with AAs and "perks." From what we've seen of 4's "perks" and AAs, nothing looks as bad as Reach too.

How will you see perks?

 

[Blissful]

Again, take a break. It clears your head.

None of us have played the game with these, there is a very high chance that we are overreacting, being that this is Gaf and it's what we do.

Not really our fault. The developers have accounts here and can easily give us an explination to the major questions asked. I understand that they can be busy, but if you are going to release information that can have a huge negative impact on the game, then please provide the publisher of the article with information that is more clear.

I understand that we will have some points cleared in tomorrow bulletin (poor BS Angel), but we shouldn't always have to wait for important information like that....

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I don't see how playing the game or waiting for a bulletin will change the FACT that these additions change the predictability and reliance of a typical Halo game.

Whatever the hell Halo 4 turns out to be on November 6th, the Infinity playlists will not play, move, or operate in the same vein Halo 1-3 did. They will not. They have been designed to NOT play like those Halo games.

 

[a zoojoo]

Wait, Bregg, did you change your name?

 

[Karl2177]

Well I don't mean it to be an option. I mean it to be standard/mandatory. It just happens in matchmaking.

To me that's almost as bad. You're dividing the population, but you're doing it on a level that the player can't control.

 

[Enfinit]

I just broke down and bought Minecraft for Xbox. I've had it on PC since Alpha.

Couple of buds really wanted me to get it, now I'm having buyer's remorse and feel like I just pissed away $20.

Someone please make me feel like I spent $20 on a justified purpose. Pls.

Spoiler

Halo.

 

[Blissful]

I don't see how playing the game or waiting for a bulletin will change the FACT that these additions change the predictability and reliance of a typical Halo game.

Whatever the hell Halo 4 turns out to be on November 6th, the Infinity playlists will not play, move, or operate in the same vein Halo 1-3 did. They will not. They have been designed to NOT play like those Halo games.

I bet you 1000 spartan points that they will put Infinity Slayer on the top of the "Competitive" playlist. So all a player's gatta do is hit A a couple times, and they are in. Look at how populated Team Slayer is in Reach :\

 

[Mister Negative]

Dave as in Walshy?

That's uncle walshy, to you.

 

[lybertyboy]

then please provide the publisher of the article with information that is more clear.

There was extra information about level caps and such that I talked about in the interview. I don't control what quotes hit the cutting room floor.

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm getting on Reach for some Firefight. Anyone else interested in the Firefight Experience(tm) come join me plz.

Or normal multi, but I'd like to attempt a FF lobby for once..

 

[a zoojoo]

There was extra information about level caps and such that I talked about in the interview. I don't control what quotes hit the cutting room floor.

Will all the stuff not talked about in the IGN article be talked about in the bulletin?

 

[Mister Negative]

I'm getting on Reach for some Firefight. Anyone else interested in the Firefight Experience(tm) come join me plz.

Or normal multi, but I'd like to attempt a FF lobby for once..

I do have an unrelenting affection for poor netcode and input lag...

 

[Abdozer]

That's grandpa walshy, to you.

Oh, alright.