I hope we still get a BTB hopper. Invasion was fun at times but it felt like a poor man's BTB with how predictable it got. I prefer a match of BTB with proper weapon placement on the map and immediate access to vehicles. The matches could go either way at times and there is a notion of freedom that I could only now perceive after having experienced the narrow, almost repetitive, Invasion gametypes.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo: Reach Beta Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Newest episode of RvB: Revelation is up for sponsors. Goes online for everyone else in 55 minutes. It continues the awesomeness of this season.
Tex is back! 
Yes please to a 6v6-8v8 style BTB. If it makes you feel any better, have it automatically have a spawn-bro like Invasion does. They need to have a real BTB style hopper in Reach with Flag, Bomb, some Slayer, and whatever else. Invasion is OK, but it would get old pretty quick and the classic BTB style is more refined.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Striker said:
The whole battle bro system sounded like a bad idea from the get go, I would hate to be rushing a Vehicle/ Power weapon spawn, and then get sideswiped from a dude who didnt seem like a threat, till his Battle Bro spawned with him. I guess the whole "cant spawn till area is clear" thing will help with those situations, but they can still happen.
I also hope theres regular BTB aswell as Invasion, but I fear that they will really want to push Invasion, especially as they have dedicated resources making maps specifically for it. Theres space for both though, and I guess the Invasion maps can double up to become decent BTB maps.
Im more interested in how the Jetpack will affect map creation, personally im hoping we can still get a Pit remake, but with Jetpacks turned off as a defualt setting (i.e. so it cant be chosen as a load out).
So, I was going to try and compile a list of confirmed changes (as opposed to pure glitches fixed ) made to Reach since the Beta, to point back to later on (I'll park it in the OP of this thread). I know many of these were made before the Beta went public, but I want to list the changes that players will be exposed to, rather than a strict timeline. Here's what I have so far - let me know if I missed any.
Player Traits | Base movement speed and jump height increased slightly; headshot zone expanded (lower portion of head was obscured taking fire in Beta)
Frag Grenades | Damage decreased one point, damage radius reduced, time from impact to detonation extended
HUD | Targeting reticule made easier to see; directional fire indicators enhanced; shield displays damage correctly (was uneven in Beta)
Melee | Longer delay between melee strikes, fewer simultaneous beat downs
Party Splitting | Parties within the team size limit in a playlist will no longer be split
Sword Base | Plasma Launcher removed; CTF cap and spawn points changed (gameplay is more side to side than up and down now); visuals of rooms given a pass to make them more easily distinguishable
Powerhouse | CTF flag moved from room to lower building roof; Stockpile locations moved
Stockpile | Stockpile spoiling addressed; waypoint colors changed to match teams
DMR | Clip expanded from 12 to 15 rounds
Magnum | Firing rate slowed slightly
Needle Rifle | Clip expanded from 16 to 21 rounds
Assault Rifle | Damage slightly increased
Plasma Repeater | Kept pace with the AR
Vehicles
Frag Grenades | Damage decreased one point, damage radius reduced, time from impact to detonation extended
HUD | Targeting reticule made easier to see; directional fire indicators enhanced; shield displays damage correctly (was uneven in Beta)
Melee | Longer delay between melee strikes, fewer simultaneous beat downs
Party Splitting | Parties within the team size limit in a playlist will no longer be split
Sword Base | Plasma Launcher removed; CTF cap and spawn points changed (gameplay is more side to side than up and down now); visuals of rooms given a pass to make them more easily distinguishable
Powerhouse | CTF flag moved from room to lower building roof; Stockpile locations moved
Stockpile | Stockpile spoiling addressed; waypoint colors changed to match teams
DMR | Clip expanded from 12 to 15 rounds
Magnum | Firing rate slowed slightly
Needle Rifle | Clip expanded from 16 to 21 rounds
Assault Rifle | Damage slightly increased
Plasma Repeater | Kept pace with the AR
Vehicles
- Overall vehicles are much, much meatier than they were in the Beta.
- Vehicles will no longer just explode on their own, GTA style. Vehicles will only blow up from direct player damage. So, no more killing an opponent and flying away only to have your flaming vehicle suddenly explode on you.
- Vehicle damage will now partially transfer to the player, just like youre used to in Halo 3. Youll see this represented in your own shield/health meter as your vehicle takes damage.
- The damage that a player takes depends on the location of the damage being done relative to the player. So, if you throw a grenade underneath a Warthog, the driver is going to take a little bit of damage. If you throw a grenade into the sun roof or windshield, the driver will take significantly more damage.
Well that makes sense if you saw the animated short from their animated series which is going to hit Comedy Central soonbig ander said:Newest episode of RvB: Revelation is up for sponsors. Goes online for everyone else in 55 minutes. It continues the awesomeness of this season.Tex is back!
big ander said:Newest episode of RvB: Revelation is up for sponsors. Goes online for everyone else in 55 minutes. It continues the awesomeness of this season.Tex is back!
Like that was a big surprise (I'm not a sponsor though..).
Didn't last season's promo trailer show both
Church and Tex walking to the Blue base in Valhalla? Did they just move that concept to this season?
ZayneH said:
Yeah, last year had an Episode 0 with what seemed to be a ghost Church talking to a ghost Tex. I knew she would come back before the end of this season, so I was just glad to see it happen early.
I'm still confused about that, because that whole "announcement traces back to and HBO forum poster saying it would happen. I still can't find anything from either RT or Comedy Central confirming RvB Animated will be on that network. I sure hope it is though.Well that makes sense if you saw the animated short from their animated series which is going to hit Comedy Central soon
I hope the MS conference is just Shishka on stage with Reach's map editor going to town and being able to accurately recreate midship in 2 hours. Then just have him run around the map making all the jumps to confirm the game will be fun again.
What does this mean?GhaleonEB said:
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
I'd assume it means the Plasma Repeater is getting the same damage increase as the AR.EazyB said:
That's what I thought. Didn't use it much but when I did use it I thought it was a fun little gun. Leading targets and the cooldown mechanic added a bit of depth to it. That's why I'm wondering what's changed.Blueblur1 said:
Really don't know how you could prefer the total ambiguity of no radar yet prefer a stronger radar to a weaker one. But whatever.Kuroyume said:
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Can't wait to see more of Halo: Reach next week!
about stockpile griefers... i think bungie has only eliminated one potential problem with this gametype and ignored a potentially much worse one, what if douches start removing flags for the sake of being super griefers?
why not make it so that teammates CANNOT pickup your teams flags from the stockpile once dropped? there really isnt a reason why you'd ever need to pick them up after dropped in the zone.
why not make it so that teammates CANNOT pickup your teams flags from the stockpile once dropped? there really isnt a reason why you'd ever need to pick them up after dropped in the zone.
Shake Appeal
Member
2-3 Invasion/Invasion Slayer maps.
5-7 "Classic" maps
4-6 Firefight/"Generator Defense" maps
...so 11-16 multiplayer only maps.
5-7 "Classic" maps
4-6 Firefight/"Generator Defense" maps
...so 11-16 multiplayer only maps.
Aye. Though the exact wording in the podcast was a bit on the ambiguous side, that's the interpretation I left with.AwesomeSyrup said:
After discussing how the AR has been buffed slightly, Josh Hamrick says, "The Plasma Repeater hasn't been changed, but we're keeping it in line with the AR; it's intended to be that way." (41:12 in the last podcast)
I took "keeping it in line with the AR" to mean they buffed its slightly as well. Would be neat if someone could clarify.
I remember one of the Bungie employees saying somewhere that it was a shame that due to the incoming fix, in the future you couldn't use the tactic of grabbing one of your own flags to kill an enemy trying to steal them. That was during the beta though, when they talked about it in the latest podcast it seemed like things had changed from that.op_ivy said:
electricpirate
Member
Because flags are rad mini power weapons.op_ivy said:
As we all know, every MP map will show up in campaign in one form or another but I think the firefight maps will be made by campaign designers and not take away from the competitive MP map count. I'm thinking 10 classic maps and 3 invasion maps with as many as 8 pieces of the campaign where firefight matches can go down.Shake Appeal said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there were even more maps with the less people having to work on campaign only environments. Course they could just ship with a mind-blowing map editor and then the pressure would be off them to deliver maps at all.
Genesis Knight
Member
EazyB said:
I'm guessing you're mostly joking, but even if they have the most godlike editor ever, the MP sphere must have a substantial array of ''official" content in order to standardize the experience. The more the merrier, as far as I see. Community content is sweet but it doesn't have clout to get people to agree on it for matchmaking. Also, relying on community content would be hell for matchmaking in its current playlist iteration.
Obviously this won't be a problem, though, so it's all theoretical.
electricpirate
Member
Took the words out of my mouthEazyB said:
Of course they have to ship with a healthy slate of maps but I'm not joking in the least. Relying on Halo 3's forge-made maps is shoddy because the tools were so limited (and understandably so) that maps had very little potential to hold up to officially made maps. With the proper tools people can and will pour hours upon hours creating free maps for Bungie that can easily surpass the quality of many of the maps currently in MM. The bigger the maps the harder it will be to make them in a map editor so I'd guess Bungie would be left with that task (even then Sandbox did an alright job of this) but great smaller maps should be able to be created with ease. The limiting factor being the design not the tools.Genesis Knight said:
To me there is no question as to whether or not community maps can be better than your average Bungie map. It's only a matter of whether or not the necessary tools are provided that allow them to reach this potential. Just as important as the tools provided is the infrastructure Bungie lays down to test these maps frequently, give creators incentives to work tirelessly at the maps, and get them into MM in some shape for the general populace to give their feedback.
Halo 3's forge and Atlas were a testing ground for what could be done within Halo 3 and even then it was never given the resources to reach half its potential. Halo Reach needs to put those efforts to shame.
Not sure what you mean by this at all.Genesis Knight said:
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
Kinda off topic, but I need to know. I'm playing on a new account, and I just wanna get this somewhere in the 30s so I'm playing SWAT because that's always easy to rank up in, but my rank won't go past 15. I haven't lost a single game yet but I'm stuck on 15. :lol
Genesis Knight
Member
EazyB said:
I mean that Halo 3's playlist approach to matchmaking would have to be radically changed to accommodate user-made maps as a major element in online play. Right now Halo relies on everyone having the same set of maps to find games and other players. Or are you saying that matchmaking should just use the Bungie maps and let community maps stay in customs?
UltimaPooh
Member
Genesis Knight said:
It's true you need the same maps to play any of the regular base maps however any of the customization made through Forge is transferable over the internet.
The only big hurdle for custom maps to be put into matchmaking is the Bungie certification process.
As long as the retail game ships with the map editor and the assets that will be used for user created maps, it would actually be easier for Bungie to implement them than it has been to introduce DLC maps into Halo 3. For instance, in Halo 3, it's pretty much just as easy to load a Sandbox map variant that you've never played before as it is to load ones sitting on your HDD. Of course, the more complex the map editor becomes it will introduce a bit of extra loading time but really the concept of "everyone having the same set of maps" is not an issue if everyone has the map editor and its assets on their disc.Genesis Knight said:
EazyB said:
While I absolutely agree with you about potential, I think there are too many technological barriers in the way of making a fully functional editor with Reach's engine. The biggest barrier is the fact that Reach still uses precalculated lighting (lightmaps / radiosity) for static geometry in map, rather than dynamic lighting.
Even if Bungie made an amazing editor that allowed you to create custom geometry, terrain, etc. in the end the whole thing has to be lit properly. Bungie has a server farm of many servers that calculate the lighting for a single map or area of the game, and this calculation takes many servers a long time (let's say an hour). They could attempt to get the same lighting calculations to run on the 360 to produce the same output and someone who is editing a map would have to leave their 360 on overnight to allow the lighting to be calculated, (and potentially tweak, leave it overnight again, rinse and repeat) or they could put a system in place for the maps to be uploaded to Bungie to be processed for a fee, similar to Bungie Pro for video rendering.
Completely dynamically lit games don't have this problem, which is why the Farcry 2 editor works so well - you can edit terrain as well as place objects and the lighting/shadows are dynamic.
In my opinion we may see a more advanced Forge editor (basically an object placement editor rather than a geometry editor), with more objects and more control options such as position and rotation editing, but I doubt we're going to see anything really mind blowing.
Bungie prove me wrong, please.
Mayyhem said:
I didn't see it yet but I saw Warriors scrim some top teams online on JTV and absolutely destroy them. I guess they just brought their game over to LAN. Props to them. Props to Fray the Aussie team too. I've played with them before and even though there's connection issues, they're legit. A buddy of mine who plays with them regularly told me they were the real deal and I kind of didn't believe him. I was wrong lol.
Str8 let me down AGAIN. I haven't watched anything matches from this tourney yet because I was out of town but it's gotta be teamwork issues. I smell a team change coming. We'll see if they keep Heinz and remove someone else or find a replacement for Heinz. I thought this team would destroy but they're clearly not meshing. I don't want to take anything from the other teams though, they came to fucking play.
I'm happy to see FB take 2nd. I can't wait to watch the rebroadcast of the finals.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with this post. It's the main reason why I wanted dynamic lighting in Reach and was pretty disappointed knowing it's not implemented. Map makers will have to be much more creative in order to make the maps looks good and be lit in a way that makes each area distinguishable. But even with Sandbox and the relatively limited (it was a UI limitation that limited the palette of unique objects for the map) palette there some really good looking maps out there. I mean I had not idea the Halo 3 engine could support adding lights like they in Sandbox and I'm sure that was never a plan going into forge. I'm not to studied on Far Cry 2's created map lighting system but while it does have dynamic lighting I'm almost certain they had some sort of process where the it's pre-calculate the lightmaps or something when you choose this option. The process didn't take long 1 to 2 minutes maybe but it used the 360 to do something with the lighting. So maybe the 360 could do some work to clean up lighting in Reach.Falagard said:
I could be setting myself up for colossal disappointment but I'm really expecting a lot more out of Reach's map editor than what we saw with Halo 3's forge. I can't speak to exactly what Bungie had planned for forge up until when they finalized the system but I don't remember them touting it as much more than a way to move a couple crates, weapons, and spawns around to tweak existing maps. Of course it didn't take long before Foundry hit so they must have some hopes of using it as more of a map creator but I like to think when they eventually hit Sandbox they were just pushing the limits of a system that had no business being a map editor yet they were able to stress the fuck out of forge to make it do some relatively amazing things.Falagard said:
I'm imagining them planning Reach's map editor as a set-in-stone feature designed to create maps. What they were able to do by turning nothing into something only shows how capable they'd be at realizing a true map editor. Even if they started at Sandbox and forge's mechanics from 2 years they could have created something exponentially better by now if they thought it deserved the resources.
Big time. If I were you I wouldn't expect anything more than a polished up Halo 3 Forge with probably a couple of new functions to make it easier to use.EazyB said:
edit-
(unrelated)
Just came across this thread, the first one on gaf about Halo Reach, fun to read again.
I hate to say it, but I think you are setting yourself up.EazyB said:
Things I expect to improve being mostly just object placement (merging objects without glitching, snap to grid, copy and paste groups, flip groups to make bases).
Things I could maybe see happen : forging on entire sections of campaign levels into MP spaces. No enemies, just your lil monitor, once you pick your space you set your "return to battlefield boundaries" you can build it out like a regular MP map with some standard forge pieces. Firefight editor, custom enemy waves and customized skull ordering.
Things I don't expect : Terrain editor, Deep tools involving palette swaps on objects, anything that allows for outside resources beyond exactly what bungie provides (scanned artwork / photos / etc.). Placing plant life or water or anything that serves as only aesthetic.
Genesis Knight
Member
Dirtbag said:
I don't get it. What does Bungie gain by preventing these sorts of FarCry levels of map editing control?
The Librarian
Banned
8-9 hour campaign? I don't think (hoping) not. No way Bungie would send off its final Halo game with that campaign length. I'm expecting around 12 hours.electricpirate said:
Zeouterlimits
Member
Time to spend making the rest of the game awesome.Genesis Knight said:
They'd have to make & bug test those kind of tools.
Quality > length, and that's how it'll be in the final game.Dax01 said:
A similar length to Halo 3 is a good bet.
Genesis Knight said:
It's still only my speculation, and then my opinion on top of that..
but I'd guess its about resources more then anything else. This is already a hugely ambitious product, and I think they are more concerned with the experience that they create rather then the one you (the user) creates. DLC I'm sure plays a small factor into things as well. But who knows, there is plenty of time for surprises.
The Librarian
Banned
Well, yeah. But Bungie keeps saying how Reach is they're biggest game yet, so that makes me think we'll be getting a longer campaign than Halo 3's.Zeouterlimits said:
Yeah, I figured they would finish up this season, but I still can't find a source to that. All the wiki entries and google searches lead back to here. So we have word of mouth that Burnie said it would be on TV eventually, and information one when/where it would air that hasn't been confirmed by either side.wwm0nkey said:
I'm just keeping my hopes in check.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Ah, but that could be interpreted as:Dax01 said:
-Biggest levels in terms of geometry & complexity of textures but not necessarily game time
-Biggest feature set: forge, firefight, active roster etc
-Biggest team working on it, amount of man hours put in etc
Not that I wouldn't love 12 hours of awesomeness, don't get me wrong.
I still wonder as to how surprising Reach's singleplayer will be, considering how "safe" they played Halo 3's.
electricpirate
Member
Dax01 said:
8-9 would be good with me as long as they have lot's of awesome co-op/firefight content. I'd put H3 at around 5-6 hours, Halo 2 and CE each around 8-9, which is a pretty good length IMO. Though, if Bungie can pack enough variety and content for a 12-13 hour campaign I wouldn't complain in the sligtest
. Bungie's super polished encounters are always more replayable than other shooters, skulls and co-op help that along too. I know that bungie took some lumps for the length of the H3 campaign, so hopefully they are shooting for a little longer.
pretty much what Zero said, the feature set is certainly the most ambitious, and we haven't even seen half of it yet.