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Halo: Reach |OT4| This Thread is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It

GhaleonEB

Member
Steelyuhas said:
What changes do you want with Firefight MM?
Optimatch is drowning in good (and bad) ideas. I've listed many things before. But:

Limited needs some very basic settings adjusted such as Hazards disabled during Bonus Rounds, and betrayal booting enabled.

Score Attack is bursting at the gills with possibilities, from long solo survival modes to wacky game types. What we have is one Round of one enemy at a time (Grunts --> Jackals --> Brutes --> Skirmishers --> Elites) for seven or eight months straight. Unfun game types like Mythic and Skirmageddon are inexplicably in the mix.

There is huge amount of small tinkering that could be done to improve each playlist. And an even bigger, massive swath of game types that could be created using the custom settings (which are all Bungie can configure). But month after month, nada. I don't get it.

Havok said:
Public Service Announcement: Assault in the new BTB is Halo 3 style, with a zero second arm and ten second countdown, at least with Neutral Bomb.

This is not what anyone wanted. It's practically impossible to disarm the bomb unless you are inside the room when it is armed. Two steps forward, one step back.

Edit: NM, you're right on the Halo 3 style, I had to go check.

I didn't see anyone asking for that kind of setup for Reach; a timed arming would work much better.
 

Striker

Member
Havok said:
Public Service Announcement: Assault in the new BTB is Halo 3 style, with a zero second arm and ten second countdown, at least with Neutral Bomb.

This is not what anyone wanted. It's practically impossible to disarm the bomb unless you are inside the room when it is armed. Two steps forward, one step back.
.

Halo 3 style arming for the loss.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Looks like the MLG playlist glitches were fixed. Thank you! I just wish it was updated with v4 :(
 
GhaleonEB said:
I'm so, so bummed right now. Words can't even. Why, why, why has Firefight been abandoned? Why?
Expect the "can't please everyone all the time" response.

Seriously, I don't understand this at all. Is there no longer anyone that can be bothered to work on an update for FF (I know we're not the only ones who play it) or at least give us a fucking clue that an update is happening? Do we need to make up these gametypes for Bungie and send them to Frankie or what? Do we really have to wait at least a month for any possible updates?

Can I stop asking rhetorical questions now?!
 
Probably changed the arming settings to make it easier to score. 8 folks ready to toss nuke nades at the person arming. I say get rid of bomb gametypes altogether, just a poor man's CTF.
 

Striker

Member
Lake Minnetonka said:
Probably changed the arming settings to make it easier to score. 8 folks ready to toss nuke nades at the person arming. I say get rid of bomb gametypes altogether, just a poor man's CTF.
You walk faster, and once you arm it, you really can't disarm unless you have couple players already in the base.

It's terrible.

The Assault variant in TO is perfectly fine. Why change a good thing?
 
Am I right in thinking all of these are new?

Shotty Snipers
Splockets
BOOM! Ball
Hog-Potato
Shotgun Assault
Dino Blasters
Rocket CTF
To The Death!


What is 'To The Death'? Im also curious what 'Dino Blasters' is?
 
Striker said:
You walk faster, and once you arm it, you really can't disarm unless you have couple players already in the base.

It's terrible.

The Assault variant in TO is perfectly fine. Why change a good thing?
Against a good team of 4 it's tough to arm even with drop shields. No drop shield and 8 people with 2 frags each means no arming. Sounds shitty with either setting. My solution? Replace every instance of bomb games with a proper flag gametype.
 
So i played some Team Classic (great BTW), I played ball on an updated Midship, Assault on Warlock, and then the playlist went back to last month's version. (all slayer, 2x frags)

WTF?
 
Lake Minnetonka said:
Probably changed the arming settings to make it easier to score. 8 folks ready to toss nuke nades at the person arming. I say get rid of bomb gametypes altogether, just a poor man's CTF.

Yeah, I'm curious to see how the new arming settings play. I'll try it myself before complaining, but it doesn't sound good. There's a delicate balance between keeping it from being impossible to arm/disarm and being too easy to do so. 8v8 makes that point even harder to determine. (Ideally the arm timings would be tuned for each level, but that's a lot of work for one guy.)

I don't think Assault is just a "poor man's CTF". Sure, the gametypes are similar at the core, but I always thought Assault was a neat way to get more usage out of maps designed specifically for 1-flag. It gave the defenders on Zanzibar a subtly different goal (keep the bomb out vs. keep the flag in) and slightly changed the tactics required. Of course, that's back when maps were actually made specifically for 1-flag.

Ghaleon, I wish I knew the proper words to console you. I really think the next game should have two separate playlist managers. One for Multiplayer and one for Firefight/Campaign. Jeremiah just seems to be stretched too thin to give both justice.

bobs99 said:
What is 'To The Death'?
No. To the pain.
I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog faced buffoon.
To the pain means the first thing you will lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists. Next your nose.
The next thing you will lose will be your left eye followed by your right.
Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :p
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Hey You said:
Playlist Update details. Nothing new, copy and paste from the WU. Hopefully Jeremiah creates a thread with the minor details included.
If you already read the update on 4/22, none of this will catch you off guard. Otherwise, details are below, courtesy of Jeremiah. (Who is really into instant arm for Assault.)​
Heh. I giggled.
Lake Minnetonka said:
Against a good team of 4 it's tough to arm even with drop shields. No drop shield and 8 people with 2 frags each means no arming. Sounds shitty with either setting. My solution? Replace every instance of bomb games with a proper flag gametype.
Neutral Assault has an ebb and flow that is not present in CTF. The way a good game can span the map, the rapid adjustments between attack and defense, are unique to the game type.

I think instant arm makes sense for it, and because most of the bases in Reach are poorly designed or are otherwise very open, facilitating grenade traps as you described.
Striker said:
Drop Shield is not present in Assault, but it is in for Multi-CTF.
....

reach_16355248_Full-1.jpg


The meltowns on b.net will be awesome, though.
 
ncsuDuncan said:
No. To the pain.
I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog faced buffoon.
To the pain means the first thing you will lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists. Next your nose.
The next thing you will lose will be your left eye followed by your right.
Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.

Drop. Your. Sword.
 

Havok

Member
Striker said:
Drop Shield is not present in Assault, but it is in for Multi-CTF.
Havok said:
Two steps forward, one step back.
.

I give up.

Edit: This isn't to say that the playlist isn't miles better than it was before. But the two gametypes I want to play in it, CTF and Assault, are not what they should be. Instant arms make it exceptionally easy to arm the bomb and practically impossible to disarm, and Drop Shield is still going to be a problem in CTF. The Forge maps are quite good though. (now remove boneyard and spire please)
 
ncsuDuncan said:
No. To the pain.
I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog faced buffoon.
To the pain means the first thing you will lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists. Next your nose.
The next thing you will lose will be your left eye followed by your right.
Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

Thanks, im playing it right now and my whole team has basically just quit, in general though this isnt something im a fan of. Boom ball on the other hand is a lot of fun!

And the next time you call me a warthog faced buffoon I will challenge you to a duel sir. :p

Hog potato hasnt shown up on the voting screen once yet :(
 

neclas

Member
So, To The Death! has 1000% Damage Resistance. Even when you don't parry, that makes it so you can't kill in one sword swing. Terrible, terrible gametype. The rest are fun, though.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Neutral Assault has an ebb and flow that is not present in CTF. The way a good game can span the map, the rapid adjustments between attack and defense, are unique to the game type.
2 flag is king. Each team must be proactive at all times, balancing both defense and offense. The base acts as a good fortified position to defend the flag from but a defending team can totally avoid their base as long as they intercept the flag on its way to the enemy base. There's a stronger ebb and flow in that strong pushes are often required to grab flags and failed pushes give up map control allowing the other team to go on the offensive. Turtling is least effective in this gametype, the teams fight for map control but must keep quick counter-caps in mind. It's literally impossible to score without players traveling from their base, to the enemies, then all the way back; quintessential map coverage gametype.

With bomb games, it's a one-way ticket; get bomb and travel to enemy base or pull back and defend.
  • Neutral assault often boils down to one team having the bomb and going on offense while the other team turtles until the bomb is in their possession. Of course map control helps but to a lesser extent as defenders have to have guys at the cap point.
  • 2 bomb is decent but counter-caps are too easy so you have to have someone near the base to prevent the other team from sneaking around and arming while you make a push. In a flag game that counter-capping team would have to make their way back to their base, but in this case all they simply don't.
  • One bomb is a lot like a simplified one-flag match. It's a one-way push, offense is always just trying to assault the base while the other team is pushing them back towards their spawn. With one-flag the offense must fight into the defending base and then travel back, this encourages fighting throughout the entire map.

The one good thing bomb about bomb games is that they simplify their equivalent flag gametype so that otherwise unorganized teams can focus on one thing at a time. I find it a poor man's flag because it limits combat to the base far too often and encourages camping.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Decom said:
So, To The Death! has 1000% Damage Resistance. Even when you don't parry, that makes it so you can't kill in one sword swing. Terrible, terrible gametype. The rest are fun, though.
The way it was described, I thought it just had no health regeneration. That way sword parries would deal some damage, but you could survive for a bit and maybe get some sword sprees/multikills. That's not really possible with 1,000% damage resistance. It sounds like another one of those game types that's one setting away from being fun (basically, Swords).

I'll just lament this one last time: it stings hard that Jeremiah spent time on game types like that but not any tweaking up some fun game types in Firefight, which I can do in literally five minutes. (I know, implementing them in matchmaking is more complex; I'm talking just getting them set up.)
Lake Minnetonka said:
2 flag is king.
I like 2 flag. A lot. This is not an either/or thing.

Each team must be proactive at all times, balancing both defense and offense. The base acts as a good fortified position to defend the flag from but a defending team can totally avoid their base as long as they intercept the flag on its way to the enemy base. There's a stronger ebb and flow in that strong pushes are often required to grab flags and failed pushes give up map control allowing the other team to go on the offensive. Turtling is least effective in this gametype, the teams fight for map control but must keep quick counter-caps in mind. It's literally impossible to score without players traveling from their base, to the enemies, then all the way back; quintessential map coverage gametype.
The bolded is not actually true. In Neutral Assualt, you have the same array of attack and defense tactics at hand, but there are some key twists. A good team will balance base defense and map control even during their attack runs, but there are huge pro/con decisions to be made, rapidly and on the fly. A strong team push that gets thrwarted can result in a team doing a vehicle-based end run around the entire team (which happens often), while teams that don't set up a proper spread on defense can have it penetrated by a strong push (so hot).

In CTF, there's a static dynamic, as teams have to both defend and attack at all times. The balance shifts rapidly depending on one team's defense or attack strategy.

In Neutral Assault, the entire dynamic of the game changes rapidly, from one side on attack, flipping to entirely on defense. They way attack and defense formations are put together need to depend on a huge swath of variables - largely the same as in CTF, but with the added wrinkle that the lone objective brings.

I find Neutral Assault games to be much more free-flowing than CTF, with larger clashes and wilder end runs around opposing teams. The mix of strategies is at least as rich as CTF.

That said, I love both dearly and want a very heavy flag prescense in BTB. But Neutral Assault has always been my favorite.

To your list:

Neutral assault 2 flag often boils down to one team having the bomb lead and going on [defense] offense while the other team turtles until the bomb is in their possession end of the game. Of course map control helps but to a lesser extent as defenders have to have guys at the cap point.

To the other two points: What you described is what I like about 2-bomb. There's a higher risk/reward to pushes than CTF. Again, not better or worse, but different.

I don't like one-bomb because of the reason you described.
 
bobs99 ... said:
Thanks, im playing it right now and my whole team has basically just quit, in general though this isnt something im a fan of. Boom ball on the other hand is a lot of fun!

And the next time you call me a warthog faced buffoon I will challenge you to a duel sir. :p
Whoa, I had no idea what the actual gametype was. Didn't think my words were that relevant.

I was just quoting The Princess Bride, which is an amazing movie and an even more amazing book. (Seriously, find a copy. I read it at the old, old age of 22 and loved it. Hilarious.)


As for Halo Fest, August 26th can't come soon enough. It's really the main reason I'm going to Prime instead of just waiting for the next PAX East. I'm in danger of skipping most of the normal PAX stuff and just hanging out at Halo Fest the entire time...
 

MrBig

Member
The Antitype said:
So reading through the thread, it seems like a lot of people here hate any and all automatic weapons in Halo?

Is that right?
Hate? No. Hold them in the same unchanging regard that they have held them in since Halo 1? Yes.
 

vhfive

Member
The Antitype said:
So reading through the thread, it seems like a lot of people here hate any and all automatic weapons in Halo?

Is that right?
I like the needler but that's about it

Decom said:
So, To The Death! has 1000% Damage Resistance. Even when you don't parry, that makes it so you can't kill in one sword swing. Terrible, terrible gametype. The rest are fun, though.
so bad. seriously, gametype is so fucking bad
 
Tha Robbertster said:
Is anyone from HaloGAF going to Gamescom this year? I think I'm going with a bunch of friends by train.

I have a funny story for the first time I went: So the first time I went, I was 15 and I went with a friend and my little brother. My parents brought us to the convention and they went into Collonge themselves. So we directly went to the Halo 3: ODST boot and stood in line for about half an hour. When it finnaly was our turn, the woman said that we were too young to enter. I asked her if it was possible to enter when we had permission of my parents but she stated one of them had to accompany us. So I called my parents and asekd if they wanted to come, an hour before we were going to leave.

In the mean while, we went to the Guitare Hero boot and some others, which was great and all but the main reason we went was for ODST.

So at the end, we stood another half our in line with my mother and when it was our turn, she had to prove that all of us were her sons. There came another problem, my mon couldn't prove my friend was her son so he couldn't enter while my brother and I could. We woman saw the dissapointed face of my friend so she decided to give him a big poster :p

The 10 minute firefight gameplay was awesome and I think that's the reason I loved ODST's firefight and my friend dind't really
I had a press pass for Gamescom last year, but ultimately decided not to go in favor of a local festival. Wanted to go, but oh well. Don't see myself going this year, either.
 
Decom said:
So, To The Death! has 1000% Damage Resistance. Even when you don't parry, that makes it so you can't kill in one sword swing. Terrible, terrible gametype. The rest are fun, though.

It is straight awful.
 
Why doesn't Bungie have Community Playlist Managers? Using insight from people like Ghaleon for Firefight or Tashi for MLG would help fix these small problems that go unfixed.

Twice a month, these CPMs could send in a report listing several changes that would benefit the playlist. Sending in two reports (an initial report and a final report) would give the CPMs time to test out the suggested changes from the initial report with the community.

It's kind of like journalism -- you can't be an expert in all fields, so find the people who excel in their own field to complete the story.

It's obvious the "ear to the forum" approach isn't working. There's too much noise drowning out the good ideas.

For this to work, Bungie would need several prestigious, intelligent members of the community for each playlist to ensure several things:
1) That one person wouldn't shoulder the blame for something slipping through the cracks.
2) That several opinions would be heard to help shape the playlists.

Isn't this the way it works for the Grifball community?

Of course, it would ultimately be up to NoF to initiate the changes, but I think a "by the people, for the people" approach is key to increasing the longevity of the game.
 

Havok

Member
The Antitype said:
So reading through the thread, it seems like a lot of people here hate any and all automatic weapons in Halo?

Is that right?
Hate isn't really accurate. I think most people believe that they are just used as panic buttons that don't really require the same amount of finesse (for the lack of a better term) to do well with. I use automatic weapons at appropriate ranges, but it doesn't mean that I think they're particularly great. Edit: What people actually hate is when automatic weapon starts are used on inappropriate maps (AR starts on Highlands and Hemorrhage, for example, both of which exist right now in matchmaking).
 
I know the May playlist update came out today, but is anyone interested in Halo 3 customs tonight? If so, I'm going to spread the word on the HBO forums.
 
The Antitype said:
So reading through the thread, it seems like a lot of people here hate any and all automatic weapons in Halo?

Is that right?
It's not that they're automatic but they require no precision. Movement speed in Halo is so slow that keeping your reticule over someone's chest is simple. If these weapons had less spread and headshots dealt more damage so precise aiming was rewarded, then using the weapon would be more satisfying and firefights less one-dimensional.
 

MrBig

Member
Hitmonchan107 said:
I know the May playlist update came out today, but is anyone interested in Halo 3 customs tonight? If so, I'm going to spread the word on the HBO forums.
Later tonight sure
 
The Antitype said:
So reading through the thread, it seems like a lot of people here hate any and all automatic weapons in Halo?

Is that right?

I love them, the guys using them tend to be extremely easy kills. :p

I hate them on Reach though!

Hitmonchan107 said:
I know the May playlist update came out today, but is anyone interested in Halo 3 customs tonight? If so, I'm going to spread the word on the HBO forums.

I hate you guys for playing Halo 3 so late on a Tuesday night, can you not change Halo 3 night to the weekend? :p Or start it early enough for us euro people to get a few games in before having to sleep for work?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
So, the new gametype added to Firefight is Arcadefight. This was done so that a game type with weapon pick up could be in the mix because many players wanted a more normal Firefight game with unlimited lives; more variety, ways to get the weapon based Commendations and Challenges. Perfectly reasonable.

Here are the load outs.

AR/Pistol/Jetpack 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Sprint 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Armor Lock 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Camo 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Hologram 2x of each grenade​

Jeremiah applied standard Slayer load outs to Firefight.

Get. Someone. Who. Knows. Firefight. To. Manage. The. Playlists.

That is just straight-up mind-boggling.

Hey You said:
Wouldn't that be Lars fine piece of work?
I doubt it. His idea of default weapons and Jeremiah's are totally different. Lars came up with the crazyness that is Arcade, I doubt he's apply pistol/AR starts to an entire game type...in Arcade. It looks like the sort of change someone who is normally focused on Multiplayer would make. I'd be surprised if it was he. But if it was, it should still be changed.
 
I liked being able to grab the AR in arcade mode back when you could. It was actually a viable weapon in those modes, dunno why not sure of the settings but you deal more damage or the enemies have less resistance.

OMG suddoth2 just challenged hyperninja to 1v1 in gb's and i swear ninja is having the most insane moments in halo. is anybody else seeing this?
 
GhaleonEB said:
So, the new gametype added to Firefight is Arcadefight. This was done so that a game type with weapon pick up could be in the mix because many players wanted a more normal Firefight game with unlimited lives; more variety, ways to get the weapon based Commendations and Challenges. Perfectly reasonable.

Here are the load outs.

AR/Pistol/Jetpack 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Sprint 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Armor Lock 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Camo 2x of each grenade
AR/Pistol/Hologram 2x of each grenade​

Jeremiah applied standard Slayer load outs to Firefight.

Get. Someone. Who. Knows. Firefight. To. Manage. The. Playlists.

That is just straight-up mind-boggling.

Hey, at least it doesn't have Drop Shield!

Maybe there is another forum somewhere out there where the Covenant post what changes they want to see in Firefight.

Ghaleon, you need Commissioner Gordon's red telephone with a direct line to Batman Jeremiah.
 

Tunavi

Banned
My May Update Impressions:
BTB
Utopie (Paradiso revision) is Paradiso without banshee/tank spawn camping. Less emphasis on vehicles. One banshee in the middle. Its still just paradiso though.
Abridged was fun, the tunnel in the bridge was very interesting, and the lack of a laser gives the falcons a chance to rain hell, which is good
Wayont was aesthetically pleasing, but the gameplay was stale, no vehicles or power weapons.

Action Sack
Dino Blasters is lame, To the Death is the worst gametype ever. I didn't play Shotty snipers, but I feel like that should be in the snipers playlist. I really look forward to playing Hog Potato and Boom
WHY ISN'T NASCAR AND CRASH DERBY IN ACTION SACK?

I can't say much about Squad Slayer because we played one of the best teams I've ever seen in Reach matchmaking. Ugh
I still need to play some Team Slayer/Doubles for the new community maps.

I'll probably be on tonight for halo 3
 

GhaleonEB

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
I liked being able to grab the AR in arcade mode back when you could. It was actually a viable weapon in those modes, dunno why not sure of the settings but you deal more damage or the enemies have less resistance.
You deal 2x damage in Arcade. That's also the setting in 2X Score Attack and Fiesta Attack; I love playing those to relax and just mow guys down with the AR. You can get regular Overkills with it.

In Arcade, Mythic fires up in Round 2, though, which brings the damage dealt back down to normal. I always thought that should be the round 3 skull, rather than Cloud, so you get 2 rounds with double damage instead of one. Seems better to double enemy health for the climactic round rather than take radar away.

I really don't think anyone is paying attention to Firefight over there. I could improve the quality of the playlists dramatically with just a few hours of tinkering. Not just my personal preferences, but changes that people have been begging for across the board.

Edit: sorry to be so negative, but this latest update is a bit of a breaking point for me. I'm honestly flabbergasted.
 
Tunavi said:
My May Update Impressions:
BTB
Utopie (Paradiso revision) is Paradiso without banshee/tank spawn camping. Less emphasis on vehicles. One banshee in the middle. Its still just paradiso though.
Abridged was fun, the tunnel in the bridge was very interesting, and the lack of a laser gives the falcons a chance to rain hell, which is good
Wayont was aesthetically pleasing, but the gameplay was stale, no vehicles or power weapons.

Action Sack
Dino Blasters is lame, To the Death is the worst gametype ever. I didn't play Shotty snipers, but I feel like that should be in the snipers playlist. I really look forward to playing Hog Potato and Boom
WHY ISN'T NASCAR AND CRASH DERBY IN ACTION SACK?

I can't say much about Squad Slayer because we played one of the best teams I've ever seen in Reach matchmaking. Ugh
I still need to play some Team Slayer/Doubles for the new community maps.

I'll probably be on tonight for halo 3

Sounds like someone lost in Dino Blasters, we were loving it :p

Agreed To the Death is literally the worst gametype I have ever seen in matchmaking.

I really liked Wayont, and there were warthogs.

Those Squad Slayer games were straight rough.
 
Tunavi said:
WHY ISN'T NASCAR AND CRASH DERBY IN ACTION SACK?
I wouldn't hold out hope for NASCAR making it into matchmaking. The framerate and general craziness will probably keep it a customs-only thing.

Then again, Glacier was in matchmaking. And so is skee-ball. Crash Derby should make it.
BELIEVE.
 
I was gonna get back on Reach last week but I got sick, this week/end will be spent with the Escalation map pack over on BLOPS. Next week though I'll be back to Reach!

Has anybody thats played NASCAR ever played Double Rainbow/Across the Sky? You know the gametype I'm talking about?

Whens Minnetonka vs Starwolf going down? Can someone stream that match? lol

and Ghaleon thats actually kinda how people who play majority of competitive multiplayer side feel about that side of the playlists, you know, the way you feel about FF. Hell I play enough FF to have a few changes in mind.
 
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