Support NeoGAF

[blamite]

What the fuck Co-op campaign, multi-team, living dead, and Grifball have more players than Classic?

I hate people. >.>

 

[Slightly Live]

Jaime Griesemer on Twitter:

"For the record, my main complaint about the DMR is the boring cadence. #neogaf"

(Hey Jaime!)

Hah, sweet!

 

[A27_StarWolf]

BTB is one playlist that can use AL and not be broken. It's a mess in Team Slayer and Multi-Team, though.

Still confused as to why Jeremiah split around the loadouts. CTF still uses Drop Shields and Armor Lock, but for Assault there's only a select few. Why not make all the gamtypes in BTB one piece? Sprint/Jetpack/Camo/Armor Lock/Hologram, that's it. What's bad about that?

You read my mind

 

[Detox]

Jaime Griesemer on Twitter:

"For the record, my main complaint about the DMR is the boring cadence. #neogaf"

(Hey Jaime!)

Bloom broke the DMR's cadence and thus Halo's. If Jaime can't get a job at a AAA studio where he can make his dream game then 343 get this guy back making Halo.

 

[GhaleonEB]

You honestly think firefight numbers would be significantly different if Bungie implemented your changes? I'm not doubting it all sounds better but I don't think the ability to pick up weapons in sniperfight ever made the firefight kids set their controller down and walk away from the playlist. If Bungie was a bigger company and could find the resources to step up the amount of content they can update I'd say go for it, polish Firefight, but the nearly insurmountable hurdles they have to cross to get these updates out means they have to prioritize. Firefight gets an unproportionately large amount of attention in updates and challenges considering its population, both what it currently is and what it could be given more attention.

I don't know, but I think it will help. Limited really is a very unpleasant place to play given the player mix. You've got casuals who just want to mess around in a playlist with hardcore players wanting a surival mode. If the casuals had a place to go mess around in, would it be more attractive to the intended audience? I think so.

And if idling were addressed by yanking jetpacks and (perhaps) altering the credit payout structure, and betrayal booting turned on, would that reduce griefing and make it amore enjoyable playlist overall? Again, I think it would.

Would that drive the population through the stratosphere? Probably not. But I do think casuals and griefing have driven a lot of good players out, and I think it's worth tinkering with to make it better.

And you're making a lot of argumetns against things I didn't write. You say, "I don't think the ability to pick up weapons in sniperfight ever made the firefight kids set their controller down and walk away from the playlist."

I never argued that, ever. What I argued was, some players wanted it on, because they want a non-punishing way to play a normal game of Firefight. My hypothesis is they either grudgingly put up with weapon picks ups turned off, voted for Fiestafight (for variety), or entered the Limited playlist (see previous point about the problem with mixing audiences).

Let me put it this way. If Team Objective got a big clean up to game types and load outs, would it get more popular? I think it would, to a degree. Is that good enough reason to do it? I think that's the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is, if we're going to have a Team Objective playlist, isn't it worth the effort to get it right for the poeple that do want to play it?

As for this: "Firefight gets an unproportionately large amount of attention in updates", it's just plain not true. I can count the number of updates over the past four months on one hand. Just read the playlist updates, dude.

 

[urk]

Revenant was definitely a worthwhile replacement.


lol

Eh, the Chopper is my second favorite Halo vehicle, parked just behind the Warthog. My point wasn't that it should be removed, but that you could sufficiently whittle down any segment of our player population down far enough to dismiss the viability of just about any matchmaking change. It's just for "x" lovers. No need to worry over it.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Halo 2 is the perfect example of broken things being fun. Look at all the issues it had at the start

I don't think that the things broken in H2 are similar at all to armor lock.

 

[Booshka]

I don't think that the things broken in H2 are similar at all to armor lock.

1 hit beat down with Rocket Launcher was pretty hilarious.

 

[Tunavi]

You know whats fun? Using armor lock when a ghost comes at you...

nope

when I get stuck and surviving,

nope

Its broken as hell

Yup

Would anyone like to join me? We can play whatever, as long as we have fun.

I just had to hop off to go to work, lets play later if you can


Also, I just had an epic Ghaleon-like last man standing clip, i'll post it after work


Edit: Tashi, I'm bored at work, you should start streaming some Matchmaking

 

[wwm0nkey]

I don't think that the things broken in H2 are similar at all to armor lock.

Yeah the broken things in Halo 2 where not on purpose...Armor lock was put in Halo: Reach on purpose however :lol

 

[Steelyuhas]

1 hit beat down with Rocket Launcher was pretty hilarious.

That was pretty funny. They are different though because it was a obvious glitch and was fixed. Armor Lock works exactly as intended by Bungie, it is not a bug or a glitch, just an awful gameplay mechanic.

Tunavi summed it up nicely. ^^

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Yeah the broken things in Halo 2 where not on purpose...Armor lock was put in Halo: Reach on purpose however :lol

I still love it in BTB

 

[wwm0nkey]

I still love it in BTB

in BTB Armor lock really isnt bad...in everything else it is though.

 

[GhaleonEB]

This clip (seriously amazing) is why I never send you an invite when I see you playing Limited.

I'd be one of those jerks you rail about, wasting all your lives.

That was some killer gameplay right there.

(Missed this post before.)

Thanks.

Thing is, I'm not actually that great of a player - you can see that in my hilarious grenade throwing. I just usually have a very good sense of the right tactics to use given the odds (which is why you see me running like hell so often), and I know how the Firefight AI works so I try to leverage it. You are welcome, at any time, to join me in the Firefight festivities. I like Arcade, and am happy to roll with friends even if we don't do well in Limited.

 

[Hey You]

What the fuck Co-op campaign, multi-team, living dead, and Grifball have more players than Classic?

I hate people. >.>

Wow. I guess everyones bored of Classic already.

I've been meaning to go and play some, but I fear people will just want to play Slayer all the time.

 

[Lake Minnetonka]

It's a damn shame this sort of fun can't be replicated in Reach. Chopper made BTB.

Jaime Griesemer on Twitter:

"For the record, my main complaint about the DMR is the boring cadence. #neogaf"

(Hey Jaime!)

Someone should explain to Mr. Griesemer that artificially slowing your rate of fire is the opposite of boring. It's great game design, something he obviously knows nothing about.

Let me put it this way. If Team Objective got a big clean up to game types and load outs, would it get more popular? I think it would, to a degree. Is that good enough reason to do it? I think that's the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is, if we're going to have a Team Objective playlist, isn't it worth the effort to get it right for the poeple that do want to play it?

As for this: "Firefight gets an unproportionately large amount of attention in updates", it's just plain not true. I can count the number of updates over the past four months on one hand. Just read the playlist updates, dude.

Apparently Bungie has to make tough decisions regarding how they allocate their minuscule update resources. My argument is that there are plethora of things outside of FF that need updating more. You have a very unique perspective in that you're one of 5 hardcore FF players, the Walshy of killing grunts perhaps. Playlists like TO and objective gametypes as a whole are on the brink of extinction in Reach. I've played over 40 hours of FF and as a pretty critical person, I can honestly say they did a good job and besides idlers it's practically reached all of its potential. Even someone whose barely played TO can see that it's a mess and needs a huge overhaul.

Eh, the Chopper is my second favorite Halo vehicle, parked just behind the Warthog. My point wasn't that it should be removed, but that you could sufficiently whittle down any segment of our player population down far enough to dismiss the viability of just about any matchmaking change. It's just for "x" lovers. No need to worry over it.

And at the same time all segments don't deserve or require the same amount of attention.

 

[Striker]

At this stage of Halo 3's life, Ranked BTB was near death, and TO was already split up (Team Tactical!) and basically dead.

It's a shame since Halo 2's Team Skirmish seemingly was well populated and flourished.

 

[Tashi]

(Missed this post before.)

Thanks.

Thing is, I'm not actually that great of a player - you can see that in my hilarious grenade throwing. I just usually have a very good sense of the right tactics to use given the odds (which is why you see me running like hell so often), and I know how the Firefight AI works so I try to leverage it. You are welcome, at any time, to join me in the Firefight festivities. I like Arcade, and am happy to roll with friends even if we don't do well in Limited.

Hahahaha, I just watched that Hero video and was going to comment on how you choked with the last 4 plasmas in the game. I'm no good at Firefight. I don't know any of the characteristics for the characters. I feel like I have to completely relearn how to use the guns. The Elites always avoid my shots and do things that I just can't predict their behavior. It's really frustrating lol.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

It's a damn shame this sort of fun can't be replicated in Reach. Chopper made BTB.


Someone should explain to Mr. Griesemer that artificially slowing your rate of fire is the opposite of boring. It's great game design, something he obviously knows nothing about.


Apparently Bungie has to make tough decisions regarding how they allocate their minuscule update resources. My argument is that there are plethora of things outside of FF that need updating more. You have a very unique perspective in that you're one of 5 hardcore FF players, the Walshy of killing grunts perhaps. Playlists like TO and objective gametypes as a whole are on the brink of extinction in Reach. I've played over 40 hours of FF and as a pretty critical person, I can honestly say they did a good job and besides idlers it's practically reached all of its potential. Even someone whose barely played TO can see that it's a mess and needs a huge overhaul.


And at the same time all segments don't deserve or require the same amount of attention.

Tell us what do you know of Game Design? Are you studying in it?

 

[Account Attempt #4]

I lament that I had to skim this rather hastily as I'm at work catching up on things over a lunch break. Great suggestions, especially because they're completely doable without requiring heavy lifting. I am surprised (unless I've missed something) that you didn't include your earlier idea of using an individual 'lives pool' to help root out the less skilled players. Perhaps it's been nixed as a possibility by someone already. I look forward to Lars' reaction, hopefully by way of implementing some fixes.

Great site also Dani, I hadn't had chance to peruse through most of the content there until recently.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Hahahaha, I just watched that Hero video and was going to comment on how you choked with the last 4 plasmas in the game. I'm no good at Firefight. I don't know any of the characteristics for the characters. I feel like I have to completely relearn how to use the guns. The Elites always avoid my shots and do things that I just can't predict their behavior. It's really frustrating lol.

Yeah it was embarassing knowing three other dudes were watching me. Hunters are huge, right? And I'm pitching plasma grenades over their shoulder, between the legs, to the side....I was almost literally missing the broad side of a barn. :lol

You do have to relearn the weapons and enemy AI in Firefight, which even with experience can be unpredictable beacause it's coded to have variations in behavior even under identical circumstances. Stuff like Plasma Pistols are absolute gold when I usually don't touch them in MP.

I lament that I had to skim this rather hastily as I'm at work catching up on things over a lunch break. Great suggestions, especially because they're completely doable without requiring heavy lifting. I am surprised (unless I've missed something) that you didn't include your earlier idea of using an individual 'lives pool' to help root out the less skilled players. Perhaps it's been nixed as a possibility by someone already. I look forward to Lars' reaction, hopefully by way of implementing some fixes.

Great site also Dani, I hadn't had chance to peruse through most of the content there until recently.

When I started getting dissatisfied with Limited, I originally thought the life pools issue was the problem. What I have since realized is that's it's not the shared life pools, but the shared playlists between player bases, that is the problem (IMO, of course). I really do think something like Firefight Unlimited would make Limited a much better place, and wouuld make the players who get destroyed in Limited much happier as well.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

What the fuck Co-op campaign, multi-team, living dead, and Grifball have more players than Classic?

I hate people. >.>

I love classic settings, when GAF had the whole classic customs craze I was there for as many matches as I could play. The playlist is awful though, AR Spam and an overload of forge maps for the loss. Classic settings plus Reach maps worked well, Being able to jump on regular maps feels amazing lol. I also disagree with the logic behind excluding Halo 3 remakes. At the very least the DLC maps should be in there, Classic playlist came out around the time the new map pack came out and thats a tough choice to make!

Ultimatly rather than play a pale imitation of Classic Halo I find it better to just play Halo 3. As Halo 3's population continues to dwindle that gets harder though.

 

[wwm0nkey]

At this stage of Halo 3's life, Ranked BTB was near death, and TO was already split up (Team Tactical!) and basically dead.

It's a shame since Halo 2's Team Skirmish seemingly was well populated and flourished.

Objectives in all shapes and forms died after Halo 2.

 

[The Librarian]

Jaime Griesemer on Twitter:

"For the record, my main complaint about the DMR is the boring cadence. #neogaf"

(Hey Jaime!)

Haha, that's awesome.

For the record, I like the DMR. And the Nerfle. I think I like the Nerfle more though. I dunno...Bungie did a FANTASTIC job of creating two good mid-long range weapons.

 

[Lake Minnetonka]

Tell us what do you know of Game Design? Are you studying in it?

My Game Design resume consists pooping on millions of kids like you across hundreds of videogames.

 

[Tashi]

Yeah it was embarassing knowing three other dudes were watching me. Hunters are huge, right? And I'm pitching plasma grenades over their shoulder, between the legs, to the side....I was almost literally missing the broad side of a barn. :lol

You do have to relearn the weapons and enemy AI in Firefight, which even with experience can be unpredictable beacause it's coded to have variations in behavior even under identical circumstances. Stuff like Plasma Pistols are absolute gold when I usually don't touch them in MP.

This can actually be super effective in MP. 4 shots will drop shields. It's deadly close range.

My Game Design resume consists pooping on millions of kids like you across hundreds of videogames.

:lol :lol :lol

I'm in tears right now Hahahahahaha

 

[kylej]

Here are the playlist populations right now, from largest to smallest:

Playlist                     Players
TEAM SLAYER                  7,891
LIVING DEAD                  5,743
FIREFIGHT ARCADE             5,534
[B]BIG TEAM BATTLE              4,209[/B]
TEAM SWAT                    3,911
SCORE ATTACK                 3,765
SQUAD SLAYER                 3,391
TEAM SNIPERS                 2,019
ACTION SACK                  1,935
RUMBLE PIT                   1,606
INVASION                     1,571
DOUBLE TEAM                  1,060
MULTI TEAM                   1,031
[B]MLG                          935[/B]
FIREFIGHT LIMITED            883
[B]THE ARENA                    860[/B]
GRIFBALL                     800
[B]TEAM OBJECTIVE               533
DEFIANT MAP PACK             498[/B]
CO-OP CAMPAIGN               364
[B]TEAM CLASSIC                 313[/B]

Lord have mercy. Lord. Have. Mercy.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Tell us what do you know of Game Design? Are you studying in it?

Dont take this the wrong way, but studying the theories and technical aspects behind game design doesnt actually enable you to make a fun game.

 

[Domino Theory]

Griesemer is the one who came up with the Chopper (got this from the Halo 3 Making Of disc).

Props to him for having made so many good decisions when it comes to Halo.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Griesemer is the one who came up with the Chopper (got this from the Halo 3 Making Of disc).

Props to him for having made so many good decisions when it comes to Halo.

When did he leave Bungie? I remember him from the Vidocs I think, did he work on Reach or did he leave soon after Halo 3 shipped?

 

[Tashi]

Lord have mercy. Lord. Have. Mercy.

Urk mentioned a little while ago that the way population numbers are tracked is a little weird and isn't very accurate. I don't remember when that post was made though. I'm sure they're not far off those though. I remember when the MLG playlist in Halo 3 it used to get around 10k at one time. That dropped big time after World at War and towards the end of Halo 3 floated around 2-3k tops.

 

[Steelyuhas]

For the record, I like the DMR. And the Nerfle. I think I like the Nerfle more though. I dunno...Bungie did a FANTASTIC job of creating two good mid-long range weapons.

Agreed, although I wish that the bloom would have been handled a bit differently with the DMR, they are both very good weapons with great ranges. My problem is with how they balanced some of the other weapons.

This can actually be super effective in MP. 4 shots will drop shields. It's deadly close range.

Yeah it's quite good, but remember it in the beta? :O Amazing gun in the beta!

Urk mentioned a little while ago that the way population numbers are tracked is a little weird and isn't very accurate. I don't remember when that post was made though. I'm sure they're not far off those though. I remember when the MLG playlist in Halo 3 it used to get around 10k at one time. That dropped big time after World at War and towards the end of Halo 3 floated around 2-3k tops.

I think he said that it is very accurate in Reach because it updates every 60 seconds. In H3 however, it updated every 30 minutes which led to a lot of backlogging, which created inflated population numbers.

 

[Striker]

Cutting Living Dead/Grifball to weekend rotations will do wonders.

 

[Domino Theory]

When did he leave Bungie? I remember him from the Vidocs I think, did he work on Reach or did he leave soon after Halo 3 shipped?

http://thetipofthesphere.com/resume/

He was Gameplay Design Lead for Halo: CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 then went on to the new IP for two years after that. He left last year.

 

[vhfive]

The low number for Team Classic is really sad.

Just played a couple of games and it's so fucking good. I just wish we could play on other maps with the classic settings I get sick of forge world after awhile (new midship is pretty damn good).

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Urk mentioned a little while ago that the way population numbers are tracked is a little weird and isn't very accurate. I don't remember when that post was made though. I'm sure they're not far off those though. I remember when the MLG playlist in Halo 3 it used to get around 10k at one time. That dropped big time after World at War and towards the end of Halo 3 floated around 2-3k tops.

I think he said that on Reach they dont track people sitting in lobbies, so im guessing you can directly compare the playlist numbers but not the overall population figures? (as if your in matchmaking you will show up?)

Either way im pretty sure Halo 3 was pulling 50K people into Social Slayer well over a year after release? Or am I imagining things here? That number seems waaay too crazy thinking about it.

http://thetipofthesphere.com/resume/

He was Gameplay Design Lead for Halo: CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3 then went on to the new IP for two years after that. He left last year. From that site he definatly didnt do as much as he did on Halo 1/2 and 3

At least he has a influence on the new IP, I hate to say it but it seems like Bungie used the big guns on the new IP starving Reach of some of the guys that made older Halo so good.

 

[The Librarian]

:lol :lol :lol

I'm in tears right now Hahahahahaha

True Pros™ brag about their skills.

You're not a Pro™, Tashi.

 

[MrBig]

I think he said that on Reach they dont track people sitting in lobbies, so im guessing you can directly compare the playlist numbers but not the overall population figures? (as if your in matchmaking you will show up?)

Either way im pretty sure Halo 3 was pulling 50K people into Social Slayer well over a year after release? Or am I imagining things here?

I think it was that H3 reported the 24hr sum players and Reach reports only those actively inside a game.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I think it was that H3 reported the 24hr sum players and Reach reports only those actively inside a game.

But it says that Reach also tracks it per 24 hour here:

http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/online.aspx

I remember that Reach had much lower numbers before because they were tracking it hourly and they changed it after loadsa bitching on Bnet.

Christ... What is wrong with this community.

Halo is amazing in that it allows for the existance of fringe games like Grifball and Zombies, but when they become the main attraction then wow.

 

[Trasher]

Here are the playlist populations right now, from largest to smallest:

Playlist                     Players
TEAM SLAYER                  7,891
[B]LIVING DEAD                  5,743[/B]
FIREFIGHT ARCADE             5,534
BIG TEAM BATTLE              4,209
TEAM SWAT                    3,911
SCORE ATTACK                 3,765
SQUAD SLAYER                 3,391
TEAM SNIPERS                 2,019
ACTION SACK                  1,935
RUMBLE PIT                   1,606
INVASION                     1,571
DOUBLE TEAM                  1,060
MULTI TEAM                   1,031
MLG                          935
FIREFIGHT LIMITED            883
THE ARENA                    860
GRIFBALL                     800
TEAM OBJECTIVE               533
DEFIANT MAP PACK             498
CO-OP CAMPAIGN               364
TEAM CLASSIC                 313

Christ... What is wrong with this community.

 

[Hey You]

Hopefully Bungie does away with Population numbers both on BNet and in Game. Less fuel for the fanboy fire and less bitching overall.

Christ... What is wrong with this community.

Yeah, 4 straight Slayer plalists in the top 10. WTF.

 

[MrBig]

But it says that Reach also tracks it per 24 hour here:

http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/online.aspx

I remember that Reach had much lower numbers before because they were tracking it hourly and they changed it after loadsa bitching on Bnet.

They changed Bnet to that, but the number in each individual playlist is the actual number of current players.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

They changed Bnet to that, but the number in each individual playlist is the actual number of current players.

Oh yeah fair point! It was pretty stupid of me not to notice that the numbers didnt quite match up lawl.

 

[Tashi]

True Pros™ brag about their skills.

You're not a Pro™, Tashi.

Guess not

And I don't remember anything about the Beta really. That got pushed out of my brain like a week after Reach released hahahaha.

 

[Trasher]

Yeah, 4 straight Slayer plalists in the top 10. WTF.

avatarquote.jpg

 

[Lake Minnetonka]

Guess not.

Perhaps, if you were to release montages showing your double kills on say a weekly basis, people will see how good you are and start building up your resume?

 

[Tashi]

Perhaps, if you were to release montages showing your double kills on say a weekly basis, people will see how good you are and start building up your resume?

Lolol I hate you. You know, it's not as eazy as you might think it is.

 

[The Librarian]

Lolol I hate you. You know, it's not as eazy as you might think it is.

Tashi, I pull off in a minute what you pull of in a week of trying to gather footage for a montage.

Spoiler

<3 I'll stop torturing you now.

 

[Crucio]

A good compilation of needed shuffling for the Firefight playlist. That article was a great read Ghaleon.
I hope they'll be able to accommodate some of those frustrating elements.

 

[Trasher]

Lolol I hate you. You know, it's not as eazy as you might think it is.