The Real Napsta
Member
blamite said:
Me too. The best playlist in the game has the least amount of people. Go figure.
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Halo: Reach |OT4| This Thread is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Me too. The best playlist in the game has the least amount of people. Go figure.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
halogafcivilwar.gif
Someone post it, I don't have it saved.
Someone post it, I don't have it saved.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Had some really fun BTB games tonight with one of my friends who doesn't play that much outside of vacations. Nearly every game, we went on a warthog/Falcon streak with him at the weal and me as gunner. Tonight, I saw what makes Halo Halo for me again. Just destroying everything while chating with your friends and actually having fun. Haven't done that in a long time.
I'm loving all the community maps in BTB and assault is a welcome gametype for me. Particularry love Abbrigded with the Rocket Warthog <3
I'm loving all the community maps in BTB and assault is a welcome gametype for me. Particularry love Abbrigded with the Rocket Warthog <3
The Real Napsta
Member
vhfive said:
Nice, I love epic comebacks. That's one of the reason why I never quit when I'm losing no matter the odds.
D
Deleted member 21120
Unconfirmed Member
Gui_PT said:
NullPointer
Member
I've never really understood why Team Slayer and Arena were separate. The two should be one and the same.GhaleonEB said:
Steelyuhas
Member
NullPointer said:
So armor lock can shine.
I can't even type that with a straight face haha.
The Antitype
Banned
MrBig said:
squidhands said:
I sometimes use it if I become the defacto sniper, or if I'm just playing around with different AAs for the hell of it.
Never really felt that useful. More damning is the fact that I've never actually fell for one, or never fell for one long enough or in a vulnerable enough position for it to cause me to die.
Kuroyume said:
I was too quick to complain. I jumped to the conclusion that the AAs available in that mode were now the standard across all modes, because the description of the new mode didn't include a new, cut-down AA load-out. I thought it was just Team Slayer with an extra man on each team. My bad.
As for the various AAs, I've never had a problem with any of them. Drop Shields are abusable in Team Objective modes, and that needs to be addressed, but I've never felt like any of the others were OPed or frustrating.
As for combat variety, I mean how you approach different situations. If there's a guy trying to lock down a position on the map, you can use jet-pack to try and circumvent his control.
If the other team has the power weapons, you can use armor lock to even the odds, at the expense of mobility (sprint, jetpack) or stealth (camo).
If you sprint, you have faster access to the key control points on the map, faster flanking through the map, fast escapes, etc.
Just lets players bring different strategies to the match instead of 'control power weapons, lock-down key map control points, shoot dudes in the head'.
I can see why not everybody likes them, but I've never felt 'screwed' by an AA. Using them effectively (solo and combined as a team) is no different to me than picking the right weapon for the situation or for your role.
I like that there are different playlists for different styles of play though, so that those who want a stripped down, classic Halo experience have options too.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Right, out of curiosity and to cross check some issues with the wider HaloGAF population, I'd like to ask HaloGAF a question or two.
Could you guys list the top five issues you have with your favourite playlist/gametype?
In addition, explain why it is an issue and offer a possible, realistic solution.
I'm working on a list of the most common issues across various playlists and would appreciate your contributions. =)
An example or three would be;
1. The Drop Shield is easily abused across the Team Objective playlist.
Remove the Drop Shield. Doing so would prevent Bubble chains and Bubble abuse and restore the flow of gameplay.
2.The Banshees on Breakpoint (any gametype) lead to rampant spawn killing and are easily abusable.
Replacing the Banshees with Falcons would remove the abuse taking place whilst still keeping air support.
3.Slayer games in the Defiant playlist force AR starts on players.
AR starts on Tempest and Highlands, both relatively big maps, leads to players being abuse after spawning by players with longer range weapons. Changing Slayer games back to DMR or Nerfle starts would restore the balance.
Could you guys list the top five issues you have with your favourite playlist/gametype?
In addition, explain why it is an issue and offer a possible, realistic solution.
I'm working on a list of the most common issues across various playlists and would appreciate your contributions. =)
An example or three would be;
1. The Drop Shield is easily abused across the Team Objective playlist.
Remove the Drop Shield. Doing so would prevent Bubble chains and Bubble abuse and restore the flow of gameplay.
2.The Banshees on Breakpoint (any gametype) lead to rampant spawn killing and are easily abusable.
Replacing the Banshees with Falcons would remove the abuse taking place whilst still keeping air support.
3.Slayer games in the Defiant playlist force AR starts on players.
AR starts on Tempest and Highlands, both relatively big maps, leads to players being abuse after spawning by players with longer range weapons. Changing Slayer games back to DMR or Nerfle starts would restore the balance.
The Librarian
Banned
The first thing that came to mind was the low probability of getting Defiant and Noble maps for matches.Dani said:
The Antitype
Banned
Dani said:
The drop-shield is the only one that comes to mind. Either remove it, or make it a once-per-spawn armor ability to force players to use it wisely, instead of just dropping them repeatedly to make tunnels.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Tashi0106 said:
Sure, go ahead.
Havok said:
Really? Can you verify this?
squidhands
Member
awesomeTrasher said:
Hitmonchan107
Member
Dani said:
Dani
CPM
(Today, 08:57 PM)
1. Remove the increased damage in Team Classic.
It only makes grenades/power weapons more powerful. I would go back into Team Classic if it had normal damage.
2. Remove Drop Shield from Objective games.
3. Make a Solo/Double Team Survival playlist.
My two biggest issues with Limited are that it's not challenging enough and that players grief the system. If Jeremiah implements the changes in credit payment/loadouts that Ghaleon mentioned and brings back the challenge to my favorite Halo feature, I'll be a Firefightin' summabitch.
--------------------
Will anyone be online tonight at midnight EST? I'm going back home for my best friend's wedding, and I'm going to be at my girlfriend's house.
Her brother won't play Reach, and I'm going try to convert him. I figured a few team games with a bunch of cool dudes will do the trick. I won't be able to talk to you, but you would be doing a great service. :^)
I'm just gonna bitch about everything, and why I put the game down a week ago.Dani said:
1. Lack of custom browser. When TrueSkill makes itself apparent, it is few and far between.
2. Armor Abilities fuck up the gameplay. I'm fine with Sprint and Hologram. Almost all of the others piss me off, because they were implemented improperly. Jetpack allows players to ignore map pathing, and access otherwise exploitable areas. Armor Lock should have been for quick bursts to increase damage resistance, not complete invulnerability. Active Camo promotes long range camping with Sniper. Evade is okay in most aspects, but I feel it would be better suited as a pickup. Drop Shield rapes objective games, and should be a pickup for Slayer games only. Otherwise for FF and Campaign, I think they're a bit better suited, but still need tweaks.
3. Bloom isn't right. It doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel fun.
4. Forge World is gray. Forge World lags. The only good thing we have to forge on is Tempest, and then it isn't available to anyone.
5. Everything seems hard coded, almost like they didn't expect the game to expand at all. Maybe they saw it flopping like it actually did.
6. The game had so much potential, and Bungie failed to deliver. I think the only campaign mission I liked was TotS. Every Halo game before this, there were a few missions I would go back and play multiple times. The multiplayer had the chance to beat the almost great balance of H3 and the fun of H2. Firefight had so much more expandability than ODST, but I still prefer ODST's challenging-ness. Theater could have been improved upon, but it looks like ctrl-a, ctrl-c, ctrl-v. I mentioned Forge earlier, so I don't want to get into that again.
EDIT: 7. Weapon balance is pretty crappy too. It puts way too much emphasis on extreme long range and is really inconsistent at closer ranges.
Defiant - Highlands is still broken. Good job on removing the short weapon timers, but the bases are still horrendously OP. Maybe not as bad as the CQC shotgun fest that is inside Blood Gulch.
The bases natural layout and location provides a natural stronghold. Only 2 main ways they can enter the base area. Big Sight lines across them.
The bases have a sniper in prime sniper location for defense. Promoting turtling. It has rockets for defense again. Shotgun is a teleporter away.
Solution: Leave sniper, I don't mind it. Put Rockets where Laser/Plasma Launcher are now. Each one has 2 rockets. Snag both for 4. Put Laser in the middle. Add another power vehicle to each base. Maybe even a Gauss. With so many power weapons you might as well.
All flag gametypes need to had longer respawns. It is WAY too hard to pull a flag out of some of these maps.
Right now the playlist also has AR starts everywhere. 6 v 6 AR's on Highlands is not fun.
Potential Favorite Playlist: BTB.
Problem: Reach sandbox and maps. Can't fix it. Could be slightly better I guess. But it won't be as good as H2, or even H3.
Current Favorite Playlist: Classic. Low numbers. That's about it.
The bases natural layout and location provides a natural stronghold. Only 2 main ways they can enter the base area. Big Sight lines across them.
The bases have a sniper in prime sniper location for defense. Promoting turtling. It has rockets for defense again. Shotgun is a teleporter away.
Solution: Leave sniper, I don't mind it. Put Rockets where Laser/Plasma Launcher are now. Each one has 2 rockets. Snag both for 4. Put Laser in the middle. Add another power vehicle to each base. Maybe even a Gauss. With so many power weapons you might as well.
All flag gametypes need to had longer respawns. It is WAY too hard to pull a flag out of some of these maps.
Right now the playlist also has AR starts everywhere. 6 v 6 AR's on Highlands is not fun.
Potential Favorite Playlist: BTB.
Problem: Reach sandbox and maps. Can't fix it. Could be slightly better I guess. But it won't be as good as H2, or even H3.
Current Favorite Playlist: Classic. Low numbers. That's about it.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
A27 Tawpgun said:
Is that in relation to any specific playlist?
I think the flag return times in the TO specially are fine. It's tougher in Pro and Classic Flag in TO, but that's by design.
To be honest the only reason I say this is because some maps are horrible for flag. Most matches end in draws. You go into the base, kill 3 people, grab the flag, and the 3 people spawn near you.Dani said:
Then you have things like the shotgun outside of blood gulch base. I don't recall it being abused that hard in H2.
Valhalla had good CTF bases because you could do an organized vehicle pickup, or chance the man-cannon inch up the hill.
Steelyuhas
Member
Dax01 said:
Co-sign.
Despite dipshit teammates, had some good quality BTB games. CTF on Wayont and Trident seems pretty solid. Can only imagine if there was intelligent guys who knew how to drive a Warthog or drive a Ghost without running you over.
Assault in BTB is dead to me until they go back to Reach's original form. The arming should be what it is in Team Objective. It's perfectly fine in there.
Drop Shields NEED to go from all objectives period. It's in Multi-CTF in BTB, still, and it's as abusive as Assault can be. Why they didn't make the same loadouts across all BTB playlists is beyond me. But hey.
And yeah, the Bomb thing in Noble Creek is true. I went through twice and it reset. Classic objectives is a treat though.
Assault in BTB is dead to me until they go back to Reach's original form. The arming should be what it is in Team Objective. It's perfectly fine in there.
Drop Shields NEED to go from all objectives period. It's in Multi-CTF in BTB, still, and it's as abusive as Assault can be. Why they didn't make the same loadouts across all BTB playlists is beyond me. But hey.
And yeah, the Bomb thing in Noble Creek is true. I went through twice and it reset. Classic objectives is a treat though.
The Antitype
Banned
GhaleonEB said:You could leverage this same line of argument about Firefight, Eazy.
Here are the playlist populations right now, from largest to smallest:
Code:Playlist Players TEAM SLAYER 7,891 LIVING DEAD 5,743 FIREFIGHT ARCADE 5,534 BIG TEAM BATTLE 4,209 TEAM SWAT 3,911 SCORE ATTACK 3,765 SQUAD SLAYER 3,391 TEAM SNIPERS 2,019 ACTION SACK 1,935 RUMBLE PIT 1,606 INVASION 1,571 DOUBLE TEAM 1,060 MULTI TEAM 1,031 MLG 935 FIREFIGHT LIMITED 883 THE ARENA 860 GRIFBALL 800 TEAM OBJECTIVE 533 DEFIANT MAP PACK 498 CO-OP CAMPAIGN 364 TEAM CLASSIC 313
Not shocked that Team Classic is so low. I sure as hell don't play it, nor do most of Halo fans on my friend's list. And we're all huge Halo fans, that have been playing since the days of Halo: CE. Some of them were even on a tournament team in the CE days...the Roughnecks, I think they were called (maybe with some alt spelling).
But we've been playing 'classic' Halo for the last 10 years. If we want classic Halo, we can throw Halo 3 into the disk drive. There are still plenty of people playing in a ton of different modes. We bought Reach, we want to play Reach. That includes the expanded sandbox with armor abilities.
The numbers for Team Objective make me really sad though. Most fun list in the game. The problem is that it's kind of hit a negative critical mass. The only people playing it regularly now are close-knit teams and clans. So anybody that even decides to dip their toe in is going to get annihilated. Combined that with drop shield being abused, and you have a huge problem.
Glad to see Team Slayer, BTB and Invasion are healthy though.
ncsuDuncan
Member
Congrats!A27 Tawpgun said:
I'm frustrated by the arming in BTB as well. Instant arm is ridiculous, make it 2 seconds at a minimum. And the 10 second detonation + the amount of time it takes to disarm + the respawn time in objective makes it damn near impossible to stop.Striker said:
The Antitype
Banned
Striker said:
Ok. But the point is it's trying to replicate an experience we've played to death. Halo has maintained out interest 1) because the core shoot/grenade/melee mechanics are so good and 2) because it keeps adding new layers to the sandbox with each release.
Now, not every change to the sandbox is brilliant. Every Halo game has had elements or changes that I didn't love. But I've enjoyed every game for the slightly different take on the Halo formula that they provide, including Reach.
I bought Reach to play Reach. So I stay away from the modes in Reach that are trying to make me play another Halo game.
And I wouldn't be surprised if that's the same for many Halo fans that aren't playing that playlist.
It happened on three or four separate occasions on a Neutral Bomb game. Completely baffling.Dani said:
Team ObjectiveDani said:
1) Drop Shields - Abused to give defending structures near-impenetrability by attacking team, especially used in sequence with each member of the team dropping one or two at a time. Should be removed.
2) Objective Object Return Times - Currently not customized per map, so you have the same return times on Reflection and Hemorrhage, with one being insanely long and the other laughably short. Should be optimally tailored per map.
3) Asinine Flag Stand/Bomb Arm/Stockpile Return spots - Particularly with Boardwalk, but also seen on Powerhouse. The objective locations often make no sense (Boardwalk's bomb arm spot in a corner of the map with literally zero cover, making it a total grenade death trap). Should be revisited and moved to more sensible locations (like the sniper spawn, in the Boardwalk example).
4) KOTH/Oddball Weightings Too Low, Headhunter/Stockpile Weightings Too High - I would guess that I've played fewer than ten KOTH/Ball games in Objective, and really, it's not a knock against Stockpile, but I really don't want to play it (Headhunter can actually burn in the deepest pits of Hell). KOTH and Ball can give a nice break from CTF/Assault without being overbearing.
5) There's no credit incentive to play Objective - and this might be a huge reason that it's dying on the vine. It's received almost zero support from Bungie, and rather than providing incentive for players to play it through things like the Double Jackpot, they're giving that stuff to the Defiant Playlist, which had its run, Arena, which does need it, and Squad Slayer, which was never going to have any problems finding players in the first place. Payouts are so low in Objective that of course the general population isn't going to want to play it when they can jump into one of the five Slayer playlists where they don't have to work at winning.
6) More variety in the core gametypes is needed - I love CTF and Assault, but things like Neutral Assault almost never show up. Increase those weightings, then add some variations on the Objective staples (1 Flag CTF Fast in Halo 2 is an example). I'm not talking about quirky Action Sack style variants, just small changes that can fundamentally change how the gametype is played. Pro and Classic are a start.
Big Team Battle
1) Give us the CTF and Assault gametypes that we actually want - none of this instant arm stuff, no CTF Drop Shield. I can't believe those made it through.
2) Adding Good Maps Isn't Enough - Take out the maps that make no sense! The BTB Boneyard and Spire variants are nothing short of awful, and Boardwalk has no place in that playlist, and while you're at it, no more BTB Snipers, please.
General
- Tailor Armor Abilities to the map they're on. No more Jetpack on Reflection or The Cage/Uncaged. It might require more work, but this needs to happen to lift every match up to the quality bar that the game needs to be at.
- Take a long hard look at what power weapons you have on a map and how that affects all the aspects of the sandbox. In the new BTB, that laser completely kills any vehicle combat because you literally cannot see it coming, ever. If the issue is that's the only thing you have on the map that can reliably take down the Banshee, then maybe the Banshee was the issue in the first place (it always is, by the way. Completely overpowered with that fuel rod gun recharge as it is). Does there need to be a rocket launcher on every map? Probably not. With the new additions to the power weapon section of the sandbox, its easy to fall into the idea that you want to feature all of them on most maps, but that leads to things like Highlands having waaaaay too many for its own good. Just something to think about.
That's way more than five, I hope that's all right.
(oh, and an addition: I agree with whoever said that the Classic damage increases are too much. It doesn't feel like old Halo, it feels random and doesn't work with increased blast radii of grenades and rockets, doesn't work with bloom, and doesn't work with the current map scale)
Besides the Drop Shield in TO:Dani said:
Camping Spots in Living Dead
There are many exploitable spots in the Living Dead playlist where humans can access and make it very difficult for the zombies to reach the humans. The Alpha Zombie gametype even makes more difficult or downright impossible for the zombies. I can't recall all of them off the top of my head, but some are :
-The highest ledge on Sword base opposite of the big open window
-top of the centre base on the Cage
-The Middle Posts on Reflection.
There are others on those maps and other maps in the Playlist.
Core Objective Gametype Weightings in TO
I don't know if "Core" if the right word, but the weightings of Objective games originally from Halo 3 don't show up enough in Team Objective. These gametypes would mainly be CTF and Assault, along with Oddball,Territories and King of the Hill. Stockpile shows up way too often. Sometimes all three slots are filled with Stockpile or Headhunter. Literally all 3 slots. I would love if CTF and Assualt showed up a ton more.
Credit Payouts in Objective Gametypes
Note: I'm not entirely sure if this is possible, I know Bungie modified the credit payout for Gruntpocalypse shortly after Reach launched.
Even though the Objective Community has been pretty vocal on this, I'll touch on it again.
In Objective games, credit payouts do not reward players for going for the Objective or even attempting to win the game. The longer the game is, the more credits is given. Sure the team who actually comes out on top gets a performance bonus, but most of the time that isn't an incentive to win the game.
Credits should be awarded to those who complete Objective. In most cases it will be rewarded to the team, others it could be rewarded to the individual. You can't really reward players for Capturing a flag or holding an oddball because people will betray and such.
In some cases, you can reward an individual for completing an objective such as Capturing a territory or killing the flag carrier.
Reward The Team
Below are cases where the entire team should be rewarded:
-Oddball games
-When your Team captures a Flag
-When your Team Bombs the opponents base
-When your Team successfully defends the base during 1 Bomb Assault(?)
-When your team successfully defends your flag during 1 Flag CTF (?)
-When your team collects a flag in stockpile - Possibly 25cr per Flag (?)
Reward the Individual
-Reward someone who Captures a territory
-Reward someone who disarms a bomb
-Reward someone who kills the flag carrier
-Reward someone who captures a skull (10 cr for every skull?) (?)
Again I do not know if Bungie can or is willing to do this. Just something I thought should have been done.
Edit: Wow two people suggested the credit payout thing too. Cool
And, Yeah I agree with customizing the (Objective) gametype to fit the map.Edit duece:
Community Objective Maps
I would love for some of the Community Cartographer and Bungie attention and resources directed towards Objective maps. I do not know how many maps are currently being reviewed or considered by the Cartographers but it would be nice to get some Community Objective maps either into the Team Objective playlist or a Community Objective playlist.
A much higher bonus for winning, maybe. I can see the problems it poses, with griefers and idlers, but it's gotta happen if they don't plan on killing it off like Shishka did in Halo 3.A27 Tawpgun said:
Too risky to reward individuals due to griefers and infighting, and doesn't really reflect what the team is doing to support that member. That's one of the reasons that it wasn't implemented to begin with.Hey You said:Reward the Individual
-Reward someone who Captures a territory
-Reward someone who disarms a bomb
-Reward someone who kills the flag carrier
-Reward someone who captures a skull (10 cr for every skull?) (?)
Edit: Wow two people suggested the credit payout thing too. Cool
This would be nice. Hell, just put in the Classic remakes. There's no reason that they wouldn't work just fine with default settings, and that playlist desperately needs an injection of new good maps.Hey You said:
The only reason I didn't mention decreasing the game completion payout is because it's already so low; almost every game is 700 cR or lower, which is practically nothing at this point in most players' careers.GhaleonEB said:
My suggestion would be to make the Performance Bonus somewhat larger in Objective games, and the Game Complete smaller, so that on balance the overall payout is larger. But in order to receive it, participation would be required.Havok said:
I suspect that the credit payouts are set on a playlist, rather than game type, basis, though. So that would only be possible in Team Objective.
That's why the ones I suggested, gives a chance for all team mates to complete the objective. All the team mates can go and capture a territory, as opposed to only one member of the team being able to carry and capture the flag.Havok said:
Multiple people can capture a territory,disarm the bomb,capture a skull (might lead to betrayals so that's why there's a "?" beside it). But yeah, I see that it doesn't reward your teammates for support.
Call of Duty rewards the player individually for completing objectives, a solution might have been found for Halo. Like turning off betrayals. But I don't know how deep they explored rewarding people for completing objectives in development.
The Librarian
Banned
Nice to see Renegade in BTB. I prefer it a lot over Hemorrhage.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Awesome lists and details folks.
I'm noticing a lot of it is already lining up with some of the bigger points I have at hand already, but keep it up.
I'm noticing a lot of it is already lining up with some of the bigger points I have at hand already, but keep it up.
Sure, that's true (although the way a lot of those stats are recorded, only one player gets credit).Hey You said:
I don't really feel like either really works well in BTB. The spawns on Renegade are nothing short of poor, as I found out when I was sneaking down the ridge to the enemy base and three people spawned around me. The laser kills the vehicle combat, so it's not really feasible to use the Warthog as a transport to carry objective guys, and the middle structure feels purposelessly large. Hemorrhage is perhaps too open in the middle and around the spawn zones, but I've never had those spawn issues. The problem in BTB there is that the bases are tiny, which leads to weird camping issues. The interesting thing about Hemorrhage is that it seems to have significantly less cover than Coagulation. Just look at the teleporter exits; it went from being an immediate entrance into the cave on one side, and a giant maze of rocks that gave the player amazing cover on the other.Dax01 said:
To add to this, I'll just say that the current system actually punishes you for being the better team. When I play with Striker and JdFox and our fourth, we shut people out 3-0 in two minutes at times, and we end up with less than three hundred credits for it. Rather than being rewarded for dominating the other team (and not doing flag runs like jerks), the system decides that our effort was markedly less deserving of a reward than a bunch of kids who play Slayer for 12 minutes.Havok said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Hey You said:
I'm not gathering anything on Bungie's behalf but I am compiling a thorough list of common issues for my own purposes. Screenshots and other visual examples would indeed be helpful.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
A27 Tawpgun said:
An issue needs to be brought up before it can be addressed.
