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[Hydranockz]

I like the rhythm it adds to the simple act of firing some shots. It takes some getting used to, but once it clicks it really adds another layer of skill and mindfulness to handling the DMR and pistol effectively. Spammers will occasionally get lucky, but that's always the case with semi/full auto weapons.

Exactly. Players can no longer lose their composure. Frustrated players will have a tendency to quicken their shots and sure enough, may kill someone, but far more often than not, the cool head wins.

 

[Booshka]

And people stole the codes out of packaging at stores and used them to cheat and make the experience less than ideal for regular players?

Yeah, good times.

Yep, that was the start of all the Smurf account bullshit, I knew people that had multiple accounts, and Xbox consoles, go into MM at the same time, bridge, standby, mod the DLC maps. It was the fucking Wild West at times. I got a ton of "u got a 2 month?" messages all the time.

It was great that MS had 2 month free cards, but like anything it got abused by douchebags, all for pictures of numbers and Halo related icons next to their name, so fucking sad.

 

[stephen08]

Reach added precision but made that precision dependent on firing speed, and the effect is to grant the DMR and Nerfle at least 2x the range the BR had. There are a lot of people here that think that's a good thing, but it does enormous damage to Reach's combat, by pushing players further apart and making open spaces on maps much less usable. Hemorrhage would be a viable map with BRs. With the DMR it's a disaster. If the DMR were in Halo 3, we'd be able to sit back at the bases on Valhalla and take out players on the center hill with ease; it would wreak the map. It would wreak most Halo 2 and Halo 3 maps, actually. It has that effect on Reach all over the place.

The burst and spread fire of the BR was a deliberate effort to limit the range of the weapon and prevent that problem. Reach fixed that "problem" by adding another and in the process hurting combat even more. I'll take the burst spread of the BR any day over Reach's constant long-range popgun fights. It's one of the main reasons I don't like Reach's MP combat.

Oh it totally makes long range combat viable that's probably what I like about it. To me, Halo 3 was way more frustrating when at a range it was a craphsoot how many of your bullets would hit and where they would hit. That's not even accounting for the fact that the BR isn't hitscan and latency.

I think there are contributing factors to Hemmorage not being as fun as it could be and better range fighting is only one of them. Part of the problem is that there is not much incentive to go in the middle. Plasma Launcher just isn't a replacement for Rocket Launcher. Another bigger problem is that the sniper pulls double duty as anti vehicle and anti infantry so there's not really a counter against someone using it except to snipe him.

I realize that it encourages greater distances between players and absolutely love that. One of the most annoying things to me in Reach is people running up to me, meleeing to drop shields, and subsequently flinging grenades everywhere they can. This seems to happen on countdown most of the time.

What I would have liked to have seen would be for Bungie to add a bloom-less BR/Carbine to Reach's weapon sandbox as an alternate for the DMR. I think both styles of play have merit but more importantly I think introducing as big a change as bloom should not have been done without any avenue for players to play without it.

Armor lock is the best power

I don't think there has been another mechanic in a Halo game that has made me rage as much as Armor Lock. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[Hydranockz]

I like this guy

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

Anyone remember when halo 2 came with 2 free months of Xbox Live and not just 2 days....ah the gold old times

Yeah I guess if you count being paired up against players with gamertags like "IAmTHEHAXzORsLOL" using aim bots and/or dropping tanks on your head every time you respawned as the good old times. It's nice to reminisce but let's not forget how much of mess Halo 2 MM was and the factors that contributed to some of the most frustrating online experiences that many of us have had to date.

 

[Booshka]

Every time I read a post about how the Halo 1 Pistol was mistakenly designed and not Bungie's intention, I feel like you all do with your Armor Lock rage.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Bloom as a mechanic is fine. Some here just don't like it in Reach. Let's not sugarcoat it with words like random and unpredictable. When Ram says shots often miss in combat, down to pace/lag, or whatever and Ghaleon argues that it is too accurate I think we should step back and think a little harder on the subject.

So, what do we have? Ghaleon correctly notes that the range of the DMR is far beyond that of the BR. The BR in 3 had a 3-shot burst that fired within a cone and no bloom! The DMR has one super accurate bullet. You are always going to land the
first shot where the reticule is on someone. Bloom combats every successive shot though. Ghaleon essentially describing a DMR without bloom. Killing across the larger maps is definitely largely done by pacing the shots so that bloom resets each time.

Contrast this with Ram's very true perception of closer combat with it. What bloom does is make players further away from the Halo 3 BR the faster it is fired. Think of the area covered by the 1st DMR shot. It is exactly the same as being face to face with the BR. A 2nd shot expands that reticule a fair bit, so now instead of being face to face, the BR's target is a considerable distance away. Yes you can still expect your BR to land that shot but at the same time, you knew you were gambling with spread.

So why not kill bloom and slap on a fixed rate of fire so that you were always guaranteed to hit? I'd argue you would end up with a Halo:CE pistol. Bungie never wanted that to be so godly and for good reason. Let's be fair, if we were to fix the RoF, you'd imagine it should be the time it would take for the existing bloom to settle. This would make it considerably slower than the CE pistol. That would slow down kill times and make those 5 shots an eternity apart in every situation. Any faster, and Bungie will have reincarnated the pistol.

This just shows me how versatile the bloom mechanic is. It slows down super long distance killing by forcing the player to pace slower but it also allows you a faster kill when you are closer together.

I just can't really relate bloom specific hate I guess.

Just to be clear, my core criticism of the DMR is not the implementation of bloom per se, but to the effective range it enables.

Take the DMR and drop it into various BTB maps from Halo 2 and Halo 3 (we've seen what it does to Blood Gulch already). I noted Valhalla, where base to center donging would be easy with the DMR. On Headlong you could sit at the top of the building and nail players emerging from the offensive base; on Relic players by the flag could pin the attacking players in their bases with DMR fire. On Avalanche, the open spaces where vehicles or snipers were the only threat would become unplayable, and standoffs would skyrocket. on Standoff, instead of lining up along the rocks for shootouts across the middle, players could line up on top of their bases; anyone in the middle would be caught in a turkey shoot. On Rat's Nest, the entire length of the map could be cleared with the DMR, instead of one half; the map would become increasinly boring as players out in the race track couuld be destroyed from either corner. And so on. Those were spaces intended to be cleared by the sniper rifle, not the primary weapon. I think that's a problem on display in Reach, and just adding the requirement that players pace their shots is not enough to combat it.

With the BR, players could mitigate the spread by closing distance. With the DMR, players mitigate it with their firing speed. The two have very different effects on combat, with one pushing players together and the other further apart. In the end, I don't know why bloom was swapped in for bullet spread, other than it was a mechanism that Sage liked from Shadowrun. It was clearly implented without the care that went into the BR, with respect to combat distance. Part of this could be addressed by taking the DMR back to a 2x scope from the current 3x. But I do think there needs to be some mechanism to further shorten combat range. With a single fire, precision round, the only way to do that would be to make it less accurate over distance, which everyone would hate.

It's this train of thought that has me preferential to the BR's burst spread fire over precision aim with bloom.

I may well be describing a problem a lot of people don't think is a problem, but I've concluded that Bungie's efforts to limit the average combat distance of the BR/Carbine was one that was, in hindsight, beneficial to how the games played (for one, by making map movement easier, and second, bringing more combat elements into play). I don't enjoy these very long range DMR fights in Reach, they get boring. And they really hurt how maps play when you can be constantly taken out from that kind of range; from a map design perspective, it's very hard to compensate for.

 

[xxxstylzxxx]

I like the rhythm it adds to the simple act of firing some shots. It takes some getting used to, but once it clicks it really adds another layer of skill and mindfulness to handling the DMR and pistol effectively. Spammers will occasionally get lucky, but that's always the case with semi/full auto weapons.

This basically sums up my feelings as well. While the bloom mechanic may not be perfect it adds an interesting dynamic to gun battles that hasn't really been seen in previous Halo games. Having to factor in things like distance and pacing while coming up with ways to manipulate the bloom to your advantage does IMO add a significant skill gap that seemed to be missing in Halo 3. Yeah Reach has its flaws for sure but, at least for me, the game has finally hit its stride and provided me with a much more rewarding online experience than both 2 and 3 based on what I view to be a more efficient implementation of the weapon sandbox.

 

[HiredN00bs]

It cracks me up when people say the BR required more skill than the DMR. Single-shot weapons always require more skill than burst-fire weapons because there is less room for error. Bloom is a mechanic that adds depth to the weapon, because your ideal rate of fire varies based on position and movement alone (there is also a degree of strategy in how you fire).

Additionally, bloom is a client-side mechanic, which improves networked gunplay, something for which the BR in Halo 3 was notorious.

By the way, did you guys see that GDC made David Aldridge's lecture available for free on their website? It's interesting:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014345/I-Shot-You-First-Networking

 

[The Librarian]

I like bloom way more in campaign and firefight than in multiplayer if that makes any sense.

But if a core mechanic doesn't translate well in all modes, it should be removed. In the past, Halo has been pretty consistent about that across all games. It's standardized, and I like it.

 

[Tawpgun]

Bloom works fine from far away, and from super close.

But there's this large, mid-range gray area where if you pace your shots, you can easily get killed by a spammer, and when you spam, you can easily miss a bunch of crucial shots.

That's the problem with bloom.

 

[MrBig]

My internet connection was physically cut for the last few days, did anything explode in the Halo universe while I was out?

 

[HiredN00bs]

good post by Jaime Griesemer. I read this thinking of bloom.

Interesting, because the negative answers to his important question more aptly describe the bullet spread game mechanic in Halo 3.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I like bloom way more in campaign and firefight than in multiplayer if that makes any sense.

But if a core mechanic doesn't translate well in all modes, it should be removed. In the past, Halo has been pretty consistent about that across all games. It's standardized, and I like it.

I agree; I find it works very well in Campaign and Firefight. The gunplay in Reach as a lot to do with why I like Firefight so much. But that same mechanic in a multiplayer context drives me nuts.

Bloom works fine from far away, and from super close.

But there's this large, mid-range gray area where if you pace your shots, you can easily get killed by a spammer, and when you spam, you can easily miss a bunch of crucial shots.

That's the problem with bloom.

And this is why. Well said.

Interesting, because the negative answers to his important question more aptly describe the bullet spread game mechanic in Halo 3.

Everyone can read it with their own mechanic that they dislike in mind and find ways to reach their desired outcome. I was just stating mine.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Yeah I guess if you count being paired up against players with gamertags like "IAmTHEHAXzORsLOL" using aim bots and/or dropping tanks on your head every time you respawned as the good old times. It's nice to reminisce but let's not forget how much of mess Halo 2 MM was and the factors that contributed to some of the most frustrating online experiences that many of us have had to date.

Besides the hackers I really had no complaints about Halo 2 online though, great playlists all the time, great maps and ect. hackers really did get annoying until you had the one hacker that wouldnt do dumb stuff and had it so you flew around on specter turrets on Containment....now that was a lot of fun actually lol

 

[Kibbles]

I like bloom way more in campaign and firefight than in multiplayer if that makes any sense.

But if a core mechanic doesn't translate well in all modes, it should be removed. In the past, Halo has been pretty consistent about that across all games. It's standardized, and I like it.

I absolutely agree. I'm confident 343 will do the right thing.

 

[Booties]

Turns out the scratch in my disc is actually a few centimeter long crack starting from the center and shooting out. Quite a few maps won't load. Campaign and firefight work though. Can't wait til Friday's delivery to get here.

 

[Blue Ninja]

In space, no one can hear you say "wow". Apparently, you can still hear Marty's music, though. (Rendered)

And if you're wondering what's going to make you say "wow", I'll give you a tiny (big) hint.

 

[kylej]

Take the DMR and drop it into various BTB maps from Halo 2 and Halo 3 (we've seen what it does to Blood Gulch already). I noted Valhalla, where base to center donging would be easy with the DMR.

I'd rather be able to kill people from my base than futilely jump out the mancannon or slowly push up through water or shotgun cave to have a chance at killing people.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

It cracks me up when people say the BR required more skill than the DMR. Single-shot weapons always require more skill than burst-fire weapons because there is less room for error. Bloom is a mechanic that adds depth to the weapon, because your ideal rate of fire varies based on position and movement alone (there is also a degree of strategy in how you fire).

Additionally, bloom is a client-side mechanic, which improves networked gunplay, something for which the BR in Halo 3 was notorious.

By the way, did you guys see that GDC made David Aldridge's lecture available for free on their website? It's interesting:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014345/I-Shot-You-First-Networking

That isn't really true though. If you compare the movement speed and even more the strafing speed of Halo 3 and Reach, you'll see Halo 3 's strafing speed is much higher and thus makes it harder to hit people. The only times I have trouble hitting people in Reach is when he is nearl in my face.

 

[Striker]

Halo 3's models had higher agility, but straight base speed wasn't much to write home about. Each have been much slower than the Halo 1/2 counterparts. It bugs me they decided to slow the game down onward, lengthening the kill times, and adding gimmicks throughout.

 

[Account Attempt #4]

In space, no one can hear you say "wow". Apparently, you can still hear Marty's music, though. (Rendered)

And if you're wondering what's going to make you say "wow", I'll give you a tiny (big) hint.

You do some incredible work, sir! Nice find. =O

 

[kylej]

need people for arena, send jelyk a message

 

[ncsuDuncan]

So who is the asshole that posted those comments on Jaime's blog? Very mature. I'm all for discussion on bloom, but shit like that just discredits GAF more so than usual. I just hope it was some lurker

Spoiler

or someone who was banned

because that's just embarassing.

As for bloom, I like the concept but I'm not in love with the execution. I'd like to test a version of Reach that has both the DMR and a BR. Give the DMR a slightly better scope than it currently has and treat it as a pseudo-power weapon. Not quite a sniper rifle but definitely intended for long-range kills only.

Spawn with a BR instead, which loses to a DMR in long range fights but dominates the mid-range battles that I loved in Halo 2 and 3.

I think bloom works well for Reach's pistol, I just get frustrated by the clip size.

 

[Booshka]

So who is the asshole that posted those comments on Jaime's blog? Very mature. I'm all for discussion on bloom, but shit like that just discredits GAF more so than usual. I just hope it was some lurker

Spoiler

or someone who was banned

because that's just embarassing.

As for bloom, I like the concept but I'm not in love with the execution. I'd like to test a version of Reach that has both the DMR and a BR. Give the DMR a slightly better scope than it currently has and treat it as a pseudo-power weapon. Not quite a sniper rifle but definitely intended for long-range kills only.

Spawn with a BR instead, which loses to a DMR in long range fights but dominates the mid-range battles that I loved in Halo 2 and 3.

I think bloom works well for Reach's pistol, I just get frustrated by the clip size.

That is pretty immature for someone to vent their frustrations with a game on a personal game designer's blog. Some great insight into game design on there, and some salty Halo fan goes on and cries about the game, real shitty person.

I love that I have a primary weapon that is effective at range, and can counter snipers pretty well, but I see the drawbacks of the design of the bloom with the close and mid-range game. I am fine with getting beat out by other weapons at close range when I am using a DMR, although I hate how skill-less a lot of those close range weapons are.

The mid-range encounters, and the overall design of Reach's shooting model bothers me. I posted this a while back, but I feel the main problem is the discrepancy with the magnetism between being zoomed and unzoomed. I always liked in Halo CE where the magnetism mechanics did not change regardless of zoom. It made the issue of getting shot out of your zoom not much of a problem. Ever since Halo 2, if you got shot out of zoom at a certain range you had no magnetism or aim assist, so you had to struggle to free aim at the guy who is zoomed in with the assists and shooting you. It turns into a zoom fight, where you are trying to knock them out of zoom and keep yourself in yours. The abrupt loss of aim assist when being un-scoped is awkward as well.

Watching a lot of Pro Reach gameplay, part of their strategy with the DMR is to Pace for initial damage to shields, then to spam while in zoom at the face when the player is no shield, and at strangely close ranges, this seems like a way of exploiting the system. A lot of the aforementioned "Zoom fighting" happens as well, and it isn't any fun. There is some quality to the pacing of the DMR that I like, but because of this whole zoom magnetism issue, I feel that pacing can get beat out by Zoomed Spam, and often does. If the magnetism modifiers remained unchanged for the weapons intended ranges in spite of zoom, I feel Pacers would win more battles against Spammers. Keep in mind I am discussing the good starting weapons of Halo (H1 Pistol, BR's and DMR).

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Get outta here haters.

 

[Hey You]

Ok how many of you would get super hyped if....

Halo: Anniversary which includes Halo: CE remastered and a token for Halo 2 on XBLA and beta access to a whole new un-announced Halo game.

Not at all.

 

[Tawpgun]

Troller Lock
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=5833959&player=Tawpgun

One of the few times I've used Armor Lock. I should have died so many times. No it's not a skill/strategy. It was easy as hell.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=7301963&player=Tawpgun


As far as bloom goes, it's the mid range fights (the most common in Halo) that bloom on the DMR fails.

You never know if its better to spam or pace. And that element of randomness is terirble. How can you POSSIBLY agree with bloom in this scenario.

Mid Range Fight. Player A spots Player B. Player B spots Player A. Player A spams his trigger. Player B, realizing the maximum bloom is a bit big for this distance, paces himself. Spammer wins anyway.

It's not some 1 in a million scenario. it happens MULTIPLE times each game and its bullshit.

I have felt like a boss when I paced a spammer to death. And I felt like a clutch motherfucker when I out DMR'd someone while weak because I spammed, even though Bloom was the reason, not any skill I had.

Please, bloom supporters of GAF, how do you defend this shit?

 

[Booties]

Just got a 20-0 perfection in the arena with jelyk. You guys sock for missing out

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=630880751&player=Booties

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Bloom as a mechanic is fine. Some here just don't like it in Reach. Let's not sugarcoat it with words like random and unpredictable. When Ram says shots often miss in combat, down to pace/lag, or whatever and Ghaleon argues that it is too accurate I think we should step back and think a little harder on the subject.

So, what do we have? Ghaleon correctly notes that the range of the DMR is far beyond that of the BR. The BR in 3 had a 3-shot burst that fired within a cone and no bloom! The DMR has one super accurate bullet. You are always going to land the
first shot where the reticule is on someone. Bloom combats every successive shot though. Ghaleon essentially describing a DMR without bloom. Killing across the larger maps is definitely largely done by pacing the shots so that bloom resets each time.

Not in multikill scenario's. The BR also actually had a damn near accurate first bullet (out of the burst of 3) so if someone was 1 shot the spread made no difference.

Contrast this with Ram's very true perception of closer combat with it. What bloom does is make players further away from the Halo 3 BR the faster it is fired. Think of the area covered by the 1st DMR shot. It is exactly the same as being face to face with the BR. A 2nd shot expands that reticule a fair bit, so now instead of being face to face, the BR's target is a considerable distance away. Yes you can still expect your BR to land that shot but at the same time, you knew you were gambling with spread.

So why not kill bloom and slap on a fixed rate of fire so that you were always guaranteed to hit? I'd argue you would end up with a Halo:CE pistol. Bungie never wanted that to be so godly and for good reason. Let's be fair, if we were to fix the RoF, you'd imagine it should be the time it would take for the existing bloom to settle. This would make it considerably slower than the CE pistol. That would slow down kill times and make those 5 shots an eternity apart in every situation. Any faster, and Bungie will have reincarnated the pistol.

I actually prefer that to the fact that some people can panic and still get lucky, a fixed RoF lets a player know theyre boundries and good players will know when they need to back out. Of course the timing would be REALLY damn slow and people would find it boring, bloom just suger coats that.

This just shows me how versatile the bloom mechanic is. It slows down super long distance killing by forcing the player to pace slower but it also allows you a faster kill when you are closer together.

I just can't really relate bloom specific hate I guess.

I kind of think the use of bloom is negated over range, it takes longer to kill the dude, but thats essentially it. Is it worth it at the cost of whats happened to the close range combat?

I dont even care that spammers occasionaly get lucky, I just hate how the speedy precision gameplay has been replaced with Reach's play - it just feels too slow/ spammy to even be enjoyable.

Exactly. Players can no longer lose their composure. Frustrated players will have a tendency to quicken their shots and sure enough, may kill someone, but far more often than not, the cool head wins.

Even if the cool head wins 9/10 thats 1 time too many, 9/10 is nothing when you consider that you can easily have over 100 dmr battles in just a few hours of play. That said I dont care about the cool head losing, im just not sure I enjoy the gameplay that comes about from the bloom mechanic.

 

[vhfive]

As far as bloom goes, it's the mid range fights (the most common in Halo) that bloom on the DMR fails.

You never know if its better to spam or pace. And that element of randomness is terirble. How can you POSSIBLY agree with bloom in this scenario.

Mid Range Fight. Player A spots Player B. Player B spots Player A. Player A spams his trigger. Player B, realizing the maximum bloom is a bit big for this distance, paces himself. Spammer wins anyway.

It's not some 1 in a million scenario. it happens MULTIPLE times each game and its bullshit.

I have felt like a boss when I paced a spammer to death. And I felt like a clutch motherfucker when I out DMR'd someone while weak because I spammed, even though Bloom was the reason, not any skill I had.

Please, bloom supporters of GAF, how do you defend this shit?

nailed it

 

[Blue Ninja]

Ok how many of you would get super hyped if....

Halo: Anniversary which includes Halo: CE remastered and a token for Halo 2 on XBLA and beta access to a whole new un-announced Halo game.

I'd realize it was a dream. Within a dream. Within a donut.

BRAAAAAAAAAM.

 

[Striker]

Armor Lock, of course, is determent in small, enclosed maps. It's served on vehicular based or large maps, i.e built for BTB and Invasion.

As for bloom, I said it before and I'll say it again, I'll take a bloom game as long as it contained hitscan over a game that's reliant on spread. Many cases of deaths will result in your shots not registering because of the connection speed.

 

[NullPointer]

Please, bloom supporters of GAF, how do you defend this shit?

Semi and fully automatic weapons can be spammed by their very nature. Sometimes spamming will win from chance. Pacing your shots should give you the upper hand more often.

How would this work out without bloom? Both players would spam and the one who saw the other first would win?

Maybe you're arguing for even more bloom?

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Semi and fully automatic weapons can be spammed by their very nature. Sometimes spamming will win from chance. Pacing your shots should give you the upper hand more often.

How would this work out without bloom? Both players would spam and the one who saw the other first would win?

Maybe you're arguing for even more bloom?

Thats a weak response given that the older Halo games didnt have bloom and they certainly wernt about spotting your opponent first. I cant think of a Halo game where battles worked out like that at all.

EDIT: Whats the link to Jaime's blog? Has he been posting about bloom?

 

[NullPointer]

Thats a weak response given that the older Halo games didnt have bloom and they certainly wernt about spotting your opponent first. I cant think of a Halo game were battles worked out like that at all.

Its a question. Say bloom is removed, how does it play out? Spammers can't win?

 

[Booshka]

Thats a weak response given that the older Halo games didnt have bloom and they certainly wernt about spotting your opponent first. I cant think of a Halo game where battles worked out like that at all.

EDIT: Whats the link to Jaime's blog? Has he been posting about bloom?

http://thetipofthesphere.com/2011/05/25/put-to-the-question/

No, he wasn't speaking about Bloom, just game mechanics in general. HaloGAF brought up bloom (Ghaleon) then someone went on a rant in the comments about it on his site.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Its a question. Say bloom is removed, how does it play out? Spammers can't win?

On Halo 3 just a few weeks ago I remember playing with people who by the end of the night were even saying "bobs theres no point in even shooting you in the back because you just turn around and destroy us". Its just far too easy to turn around and out BR someone who isnt as good (those guys dont play Halo anywhere near as much as me), or even against a good player you can usually escape using the map or use other tools like nades to your advantage. You have just enough health to respond to getting shot first, and its rare that your stuck totally out in the open without any options (unless you put yourself in that position).

If im shot in the back even if the dude spams shots non stop, I can turn around jump and hopefully nade him and 1 shot him. Or I can put my head down get around the nearest corner and tell my team to help out.

Spoiler

On Reach im quite happy to just armour lock.

I dont know about Halo 1, because I never really played that competitively, but with Halo 2 and 3 you did have options even when shot in the back.

If you end up in a 1v1 situation on Reach the lack of movement really just turns it into a bit of a spamming match, but with a decent movement speed removing bloom would just allow players to use other tools to get the step up.

EDIT: If bloom is removed and a fixed RoF isnt in place then it would be pretty messy, it would turn the game into CoD and the killtimes would be so quick that yeah, first person to see the opponent gets a easy kill however practically speaking removing bloom and putting a fixed RoF back in would make it play more like the older Halo games, which didnt have that CoD gameplay.

On another totally unrelated note, I was listening to the ODST sountrack earlier and it kind of makes me want to play it again. Every Bungie made trailer has been 100x more epic because of Martys music. I wonder how 343 can hope to achieve the same effect with the man himself. I really hope theres a Halo trailer at 343 and I cant wait to see what they do with the music.

 

[Tunavi]

Bad gif of me shooting a plasma grenade and it blowing up in my face, you can see the bullet hitting the grenade

Then Steely and I played 2v6 invasion. It felt like firefight on legendary when they charged our spawns. So fucking intense

 

[Barrow Roll]

Semi and fully automatic weapons can be spammed by their very nature. Sometimes spamming will win from chance. Pacing your shots should give you the upper hand more often.

That's the problem with bloom. Right there. Chance has no place in a competitive gaming environment. None of this "more often" crap, if both players are the same distance apart then the person pacing their shots with the better aim should always win. Where's the incentive if sometimes spamming your trigger wins out?

How would this work out without bloom? Both players would spam and the one who saw the other first would win?

No, the player with the better aim and strafe to throw off their opponents aim should win among other tactics that can be used besides just spamming the trigger.

 

[Tawpgun]

Semi and fully automatic weapons can be spammed by their very nature. Sometimes spamming will win from chance. Pacing your shots should give you the upper hand more often.

How would this work out without bloom? Both players would spam and the one who saw the other first would win?

Maybe you're arguing for even more bloom?

Upper hand more often? Define more often.... Because it seems like Pacers would win 60% of the time if that at mid range. And if Most of the time is still around 80% of firefights, thats too much. It's a game of probability and chance at this point...

And the better shot + Strafe would win. Like the past goddamn games.

 

[The Henery]

So who is the asshole that posted those comments on Jaime's blog? Very mature. I'm all for discussion on bloom, but shit like that just discredits GAF more so than usual. I just hope it was some lurker

Spoiler

or someone who was banned

because that's just embarassing.

Probably not a gaffer. My money's on Cherno "josh Bloomrick" from the mlg forums. And I thought he'd calmed down since becoming a father... I wouldn't take it too seriously

 

[Lazslo]

Hmm- I never really got upset with the spread in Halo: 3, I'm not sure why it just never bothered me. I also don't really care too much about the Bloom in Reach. It also just never bothered me- I always attributed getting out DMR'd to my own personal shityness- not outside influences like bullet flight path. However, I do find it Bat-Shit-Crazy that after all the bullshit Bungie received for the Spread in H3, they would introduce something similar that's a fundamental element to the shooting mechanics of arguably the main weapon in Reach. Maybe they figured no one notice.
The one question I have is- What was so wrong with the Halo 2 BR that Bungie had to change things up so much? The H2 BR is absolutely the best gun in the series, fuck the pistol. I know there were some crazy button combo hacks but other then that, the H2 BR was phenomenal. Wish they just kept that shit in the game.

 

[Booties]

Gonna render this when the minutes I bought kick in. https://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=18295847&player=Booties Also, my disc seems to be working find for all maps now. Think I can save it to my HDD now and be ok? It doesn't spin the disc at all when you do that, right? Maybe just at start up? I forget.

 

[vhfive]

Gonna render this when the minutes I bought kick in. https://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=18295847&player=Booties Also, my disc seems to be working find for all maps now. Think I can save it to my HDD now and be ok? It doesn't spin the disc at all when you do that, right? Maybe just at start up? I forget.

yup. if you install it you should be fine

 

[The Librarian]

Bad gif of me shooting a plasma grenade and it blowing up in my face, you can see the bullet hitting the grenade

That's one of the small changes I don't like. Most of the time it's complete luck for someone to shoot a grenade. It punishes the grenade thrower.

 

[MrBig]

Gonna render this when the minutes I bought kick in. https://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=18295847&player=Booties Also, my disc seems to be working find for all maps now. Think I can save it to my HDD now and be ok? It doesn't spin the disc at all when you do that, right? Maybe just at start up? I forget.

You might want to borrow a disc if it can't read any maps, because it can't install them to the HDD if it can't read them. Then you can just have your own disc in the tray and it'll just be checking to make sure that it is Reach in there and turn off the drive.

 

[Tawpgun]

That's one of the small changes I don't like. Most of the time it's complete luck for someone to shoot a grenade. It punishes the grenade thrower.

It's not that, so much that it is grenades on the ground being prone to chain reactions. That's why you have those situations where seemingly one grenade is thrown and like 7 explosions come after.

 

[GhaleonEB]

That's one of the small changes I don't like. Most of the time it's complete luck for someone to shoot a grenade. It punishes the grenade thrower.

That wasn't a change, you could shoot grenades in Halo 3 as well.

This is a tangent, but the Plasma Pistol over charge can be shot out of the air as well. Quite often in Firefight an Elite with a Concussion Rifle will deflect the overcharge with it. It always catches me off guard when that happens. I once had a shootout with an Elite who blocked four of them in a row and went on to kill me when the PP ran out of juice; meant to take a clip of it at the time and forgot.

 

[Tunavi]

That's one of the small changes I don't like. Most of the time it's complete luck for someone to shoot a grenade. It punishes the grenade thrower.

A lot of times I hit a grenade as soon as it leaves an enemies hand and it kills them. I love when that happens.