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[GhaleonEB]

I've played so much Firefight lately, today I tried to get into the newly revamped BTB. I just played a game of BTB Slayer on Hemorrhage. It's the stuff of nightmares.

I was in the Wraith and took one shot from the enemy Wraith and had my gun blown off. I'm sitting there trying to shoot not realizing the top half of the vehicle is missing. From spawn to useless in one shot.

Getting sniped repeatedly at my base from the other side of the map.

Getting constantly pinged from all over the map by DMR fire from players I literally cannot see due to the distance.

Vehicles that explode after taking a few DMR rounds when you have full health and nearly full shields.

Dudes armor locking en mass, bringing vehicle play to a halt.

I don't understand how Reach shipped like this, or why it was allowed to remain in this state after it shipped. The sandbox is a mess and the map is truly awful. Halo 3 at its worst - that would be Standoff Heavies - was seldom this bad. And this is normal.

I keep going back to BTB hoping for just a glimmer of the joy that was in Halo 2 and Halo 3, but it's not there. It's just a mess.

 

[FyreWulff]

And that's why I don't like DMR starts everywhere in multiplayer. It defeats the point of having a big map (where battles can be separate from each other, or you can sneak around the hotspots).

When everyone starts with a DMR, it turns maps like Hem into Midship in terms of flow and player choice and gameplay 'size'. It's also why DMR starts absolutely destroy the fun and cleverness of objective gametypes on any map.

BR starts turn Valhalla from a fantastic experience in Objective to "Take the hill, play Slayer for the next 20 minutes until the game ends in a tie"

tl;dr I'd rather being playing 1 Flag Terminal


I'm forming a big party for Team Objective funtimes, if anyone wants to join me and other guys that like Team Objective, feel free to send me a Live message for invites into a party that will not always be voting in DMR start Flag gametypes.

 

[Havok]

Vehicle health as a whole is a silly system. I would have liked to see the vehicles health linked to driver shields, while sustained damage affects tertiary properties (handling, turret accuracy, etc). The Ghost has had this sort of thing in the past, where a badly damaged Ghost fires off-center with one gun. I don't feel that vehicles should be incredibly deadly but made of paper, but rather fairly durable but requiring a larger commitment per kill.

When everyone starts with a DMR, it turns maps like Hem into Midship in terms of flow and player choice and gameplay 'size'. It's also why DMR starts absolutely destroy the fun and cleverness of objective gametypes on any map.

In cases like this, if you're going to go AR/Magnum starts, something has to be done to prevent dominance of DMRs, Needle Rifles, and Snipers placed on the map. It's not an easy problem to fix.

That's quite an extreme viewpoint you're taking and I'm sure you know it. Low population happens to solid playlists from time to time. It's an inevitability. Relative to the other playlists, MLG is pretty low but still pulls in 1000+ players. People will always swing to easy shit like Zombies or default settings like Team Slayer. But when Classic consistently has the lowest player count out of the competitive multiplayer playlists, you're kidding yourself if you don't think there is something seriously wrong there. Classic is a twisted abomination of Reach and the old Halo born into a world of grey.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, because Classic is a very strange child of subsystems, but MLG isn't the best example to use, as it has a dedicated following of people who aspire to play only those gametypes.

 

[Barrow Roll]

If population is based on quality, Living Dead and Team Slayer, which is infested with Armor Lock, are the best ones.

Classic's is a solid playlist despite the AR, and the lack of additions of maps.

That's quite an extreme viewpoint you're taking and I'm sure you know it. Low population happens to solid playlists from time to time. It's an inevitability. Relative to the other playlists, MLG is pretty low but still pulls in 1000+ players. Classic can barely pull 300+. People will always swing to easy shit like Zombies or default settings like Team Slayer. But when Classic consistently has the lowest player count out of the competitive multiplayer playlists, you're kidding yourself if you don't think there is something seriously wrong there. Classic is a twisted abomination of Reach and the old Halo born into a world of grey.

 

[FyreWulff]

Vehicle health as a whole is a silly system. I would have liked to see the vehicles health linked to driver shields, while sustained damage affects tertiary properties (handling, turret accuracy, etc). The Ghost has had this sort of thing in the past, where a badly damaged Ghost fires off-center with one gun. I don't feel that vehicles should be incredibly deadly but made of paper, but rather fairly durable but requiring a larger commitment per kill.

Halo 2 kinda sorta tried to do this, or they at least talked about it. However, you've got to balance it in a way to avoid where a near destroyed vehicle just ends up sitting there or intentionally grenaded by a player to get it to respawn as a new one, defeating the point of it handling poorly near death.


But then again, the Halo 2 Warthog was so ineffective that it invented the term "pro hogging" among our clan, which is what we called it when someone took a hog by themselves to the enemy base, because andnothingofvaluewaslost.jpg

 

[Striker]

I'm not the one using population basing on quality of the playlist.

 

[darthbob]

It gets to a certain point where there's really no reason to go after cR. I think Havok and I are both at that point.

I suppose if you've purchased all the armor that you want, it makes no difference, and that you just want to have a good quality time in the playlist, is that about right?

 

[Domino Theory]

Amazon added release-day delivery for Halo: CEA. Got my copy pre-ordered.

 

[Barrow Roll]

I'm not the one using population basing on quality of the playlist.

You clearly didn't read the actual content of my post and just as quickly dismissed it. This discussion (or lack thereof) is over.

I'm not saying I disagree with you, because Classic is a very strange child of subsystems, but MLG isn't the best example to use, as it has a dedicated following of people who aspire to play only those gametypes.

All the same, MLG has that dedicated following because for the most part it's actually good.

 

[Havok]

Halo 2 kinda sorta tried to do this, or they at least talked about it. However, you've got to balance it in a way to avoid where a near destroyed vehicle just ends up sitting there or intentionally grenaded by a player to get it to respawn as a new one, defeating the point of it handling poorly near death.


But then again, the Halo 2 Warthog was so ineffective that it invented the term "pro hogging" among our clan, which is what we called it when someone took a hog by themselves to the enemy base, because andnothingofvaluewaslost.jpg

It primarily served as a troop transport, which I think is fine. The Gauss variant served as the damage dealer. The Reach 'hog is so fragile that the thing will often be nearly dead by the time it makes a single flag run (and lets not forget about the Falcon, the 'warthog of the skies' that doesn't even have a passenger seat).

 

[FyreWulff]

The population of a playlist can be determined as thus, in rough order of how much potential population loss after the first day or two of people from Team Slayer checking it out:


1. 100% Objective
2. Objective can be voted for but not 100% of gametypes
3. Split Screen restrictions
4. Ranked
5. DLC restrictions
6. DMR/BR start 100% of gametypes


#1 and #2 are pretty much why Objective is never being added to Arena even after changing it to win/loss. #3 is pretty much why Team Objective will never have complex community maps in it because it has the highest ratio of 4-way splitscreen players versus other playlists.

The effects of these population chokes are evident when Super Jackpot Weekends hit a playlist. Slayer Heavy BTB gets a ton of people, Objective-heavy Actionsack didn't benefit as much.

 

[JdFoX187]

I suppose if you've purchased all the armor that you want, it makes no difference, and that you just want to have a good quality time in the playlist, is that about right?

Isn't that the whole reason to play a game? After having an experience with another player earlier that was only playing to get an armor piece, after which he would subsequently quit playing, it does baffle me. Why play a game one doesn't like simply for credits to buy useless stuff that ultimately won't matter once you've bought them? Play to enjoy the game, or don't play it at all. Seems cut and dry.

 

[neoism]

ok awesome 24k jackpots in objective...

 

[FyreWulff]

It primarily served as a troop transport, which I think is fine. The Gauss variant served as the damage dealer. The Reach 'hog is so fragile that the thing will often be nearly dead by the time it makes a single flag run (and lets not forget about the Falcon, the 'warthog of the skies' that doesn't even have a passenger seat).

Yeah, later DLC maps pretty much went to Gauss hogs as the default hog because it could actually deal damage (and do anything versus tanks). Existing maps got changed to the Gauss as well later on.

The issue is due to the improved netcode of 3 and then Reach and the more obvious trail on the Gauss bullet which helps you aim plus the fact that it has physics for when it hits, it's like a fast Scorpion in Reach. It says something when Bungie puts the Rocket Hog (which fires freaking ROCKETS in 5 round bursts and homes!) on Breakpoint instead of the Gauss, because you'd never be able to win as offense on Breakpoint if the other team had a Gauss..

 

[The Librarian]

Just realized why your recent posts looked off. Congrats, iirc you disliked it.

I don't...what?

I've played so much Firefight lately, today I tried to get into the newly revamped BTB. I just played a game of BTB Slayer on Hemorrhage. It's the stuff of nightmares.

I was in the Wraith and took one shot from the enemy Wraith and had my gun blown off. I'm sitting there trying to shoot not realizing the top half of the vehicle is missing. From spawn to useless in one shot.

Getting sniped repeatedly at my base from the other side of the map.

Getting constantly pinged from all over the map by DMR fire from players I literally cannot see due to the distance.

Vehicles that explode after taking a few DMR rounds when you have full health and nearly full shields.

Dudes armor locking en mass, bringing vehicle play to a halt.

I don't understand how Reach shipped like this, or why it was allowed to remain in this state after it shipped. The sandbox is a mess and the map is truly awful. Halo 3 at its worst - that would be Standoff Heavies - was seldom this bad. And this is normal.

I keep going back to BTB hoping for just a glimmer of the joy that was in Halo 2 and Halo 3, but it's not there. It's just a mess.

Premium Battle>BTB

 

[Tunavi]

Amazon added release-day delivery for Halo: CEA. Got my copy pre-ordered.

They also put up Halo 4 with box art for pre-order

Edit: nevermind, it says Rating Pending on the cover, so its temporary

 

[Striker]

You clearly didn't read the actual content of my post and just as quickly dismissed it. This discussion (or lack thereof) is over.

Yup, they pretty much ruin the playlist. That and the OP AR. As soon as the playlist came out I called that it would suck, and look at the population. SMH.

Whatever you say. The grenades were first brought up, and then that. I am not the biggest fan of the playlist, namely because of the power of the AR and how there's only a handful of maps that mostly show up because of how well they play for both Slayer/CTF/Assault. Otherwise maps like Hydra and High Noon rarely appear. Not to mention there's a better Lockout out there, and there can be others like Sanctuary, Ascension, and Turf to be added. But to judge it based on the population is also highly egregious. MLG get about 1000 nightly and that's lower than most of the other playlists not named TO, Classic, and DLC. Population means nothing. You can still get quick games in them no matter what.

#3 is pretty much why Team Objective will never have complex community maps in it

The maps in Team Slayer must be necessary for 4-player split screen, yes? Why would they any different subject to Objective?

On gauss, it seems like the rounds reload faster than in Halo 2.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Amazon added release-day delivery for Halo: CEA. Got my copy pre-ordered.

Yea they did this a couple days after it was put up. Luckily for those that already preordered you can go back into your order and change it. I did and shaved off a ton because release date was 99 cents for me where as 1 day was about 10 bucks.

 

[Havok]

erogenous

 

[Stinkles]

Perfect.

 

[Striker]

:lol

Blame my dictionary.

 

[FyreWulff]

The maps in Team Slayer must be necessary for 4-player split screen, yes? Why would they any different subject to Objective?

On gauss, it seems like the rounds reload faster than in Halo 2.

Team Slayer is actually limited to 2 player split now for the community variants. Squad Slayer is intended as the home for 4 player Slayer splitscreeners now.

 

[Slightly Live]

:lol

Blame my dictionary.

Didn't check the definition?

 

[Domino Theory]

They also put up Halo 4 with box art for pre-order

Edit: nevermind, it says Rating Pending on the cover, so its temporary

Even if it's temporary, it's so awesome as is:

 

[Slightly Live]

Even if it's temporary, it's so awesome as is:

Nice character art sure but shitty box art.

 

[The Librarian]

Even if it's temporary, it's so awesome as is:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51tBEKAQ3%2BL._SL500_AA300_.jpg[/IM[/QUOTE]
I shake my head every time I look at MC's design for Halo 4. It looks like it came right out of an anime. 343 needs to change it. :/ Bring back the awesomeness that is the Mark VI!

 

[kylej]

me and B 2da ooties need two/three for arena/squad. jelyk. peace and love, peace and love.

 

[leonfaria04]

I shake my head every time I look at MC's design for Halo 4. It looks like it came right out of an anime. 343 needs to change it. :/ Bring back the awesomeness that is the Mark VI!

Master chief change his armor before he wake up?? Lool.. I liked the mark VI

 

[feel]

I don't...what?

They accidentally your big ass tag.

 

[Mik2121]

Man... playing this game with strangers can be the most fun or the most annoying bullshit ever.

I was playing BTB right now and we were crushing the enemy team. Then half-way through the game, when we were about 78-50 or something like that, three of my teammates decide it would be a lot of fun to just betray each other. And so they start to fuck around on the back of our base, with the enemy team pretty much camping around the base spawn-killing us and the three fucking retards just doing what they do best, being a bunch of kiddie imbeciles.

Then, when the game is about to finish, I hear what I least expected. "Tied the leader".... "Lost the lead". WHAT THE FUCK? :| How can you lose 85-89 when we were 78-50 a few minutes earlier..

On another note, I was 15-0 and I saw a Ghost coming at me. I had armor lock (hate me ) on, so I was like "yeah, gotta AL that bitch.. ". Then I see the Ghost starts to lag around, oh well, AL last a while so... I use AL, see the Ghost jump above me, turn AL off and I see the Ghost rolling over me again. What the flying fuck...


Edit - I'm up for whatever game. I'm not a very good player (I suck, really), but I can try my best. Add me plz - M1k2121 (a 1 instead of an "i", I know... I lost my old account...)

 

[The Librarian]

They accidentally your big ass tag.

It's been that way for awhile, dude.

 

[leonfaria04]

Man... playing this game with strangers can be the most fun or the most annoying bullshit ever.

I was playing BTB right now and we were crushing the enemy team. Then half-way through the game, when we were about 78-50 or something like that, three of my teammates decide it would be a lot of fun to just betray each other. And so they start to fuck around on the back of our base, with the enemy team pretty much camping around the base spawn-killing us and the three fucking retards just doing what they do best, being a bunch of kiddie imbeciles.

Then, when the game is about to finish, I hear what I least expected. "Tied the leader".... "Lost the lead". WHAT THE FUCK? :| How can you lose 85-89 when we were 78-50 a few minutes earlier..

On another note, I was 15-0 and I saw a Ghost coming at me. I had armor lock (hate me ) on, so I was like "yeah, gotta AL that bitch.. ". Then I see the Ghost starts to lag around, oh well, AL last a while so... I use AL, see the Ghost jump above me, turn AL off and I see the Ghost rolling over me again. What the flying fuck...


Edit - I'm up for whatever game. I'm not a very good player (I suck, really), but I can try my best. Add me plz - M1k2121 (a 1 instead of an "i", I know... I lost my old account...)

I hate when people starts betraying each other... Last week one guy in MLG ended up with -27 and making weird noises... After that i just play if i got 3 friends with me

 

[O D I N]

I shake my head every time I look at MC's design for Halo 4. It looks like it came right out of an anime. 343 needs to change it. :/ Bring back the awesomeness that is the Mark VI!

Clearly Cortana upgraded him to the Mark VI.V.


On a more serious note, it does look a little weird. :-/ Not quite what we're/I'm used to.

Also, agree with the anime comment. I don't necessarily MIND that look. Just not in Halo. :-/ Halo: Legends being the obvious exclusion.

 

[Tashi]

So I found out that I can't get a buddy pass flight from NY to Cali and I don't know if I want to spend over 500$ on a plane ticket to MLG Anaheim. The whole trip with food, hotel and team pass will probably 800 or so. I don't know if I can justify that...I wish all of NeoGAF could sponsor me lol......

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Man... playing this game with strangers can be the most fun or the most annoying bullshit ever.

I was playing BTB right now and we were crushing the enemy team. Then half-way through the game, when we were about 78-50 or something like that, three of my teammates decide it would be a lot of fun to just betray each other. And so they start to fuck around on the back of our base, with the enemy team pretty much camping around the base spawn-killing us and the three fucking retards just doing what they do best, being a bunch of kiddie imbeciles.

Then, when the game is about to finish, I hear what I least expected. "Tied the leader".... "Lost the lead". WHAT THE FUCK? :| How can you lose 85-89 when we were 78-50 a few minutes earlier..

On another note, I was 15-0 and I saw a Ghost coming at me. I had armor lock (hate me ) on, so I was like "yeah, gotta AL that bitch.. ". Then I see the Ghost starts to lag around, oh well, AL last a while so... I use AL, see the Ghost jump above me, turn AL off and I see the Ghost rolling over me again. What the flying fuck...


Edit - I'm up for whatever game. I'm not a very good player (I suck, really), but I can try my best. Add me plz - M1k2121 (a 1 instead of an "i", I know... I lost my old account...)

Yea there are plenty of idiots. Reminds me of the game the other day. Game starts and we're running forward and I get to ghost and start to go and some asshole decides he wanted it first and plasma pistols it then grenade me. Needless to say after that it became a war. I won though cause I intentionally rammed him enough to drain shields twice letting headshots kill him. Then the third time I went full bore at him intentionally missing and hitting a rock to drain my shields. Then I jumped out and let him run me over in the ghost. Sure enough that boot screen comes up and I boot his punk ass. After that we went on to win the game. lol

 

[Mik2121]

I think the armor look strange because it's too thin and the helmet is kinda big, so it looks out of proportion.

I hate when people starts betraying each other... Last week one guy in MLG ended up with -27 and making weird noises... After that i just play if i got 3 friends with me

Ugh... makes you wonder why nobody booted him.

Yea there are plenty of idiots. Reminds me of the game the other day. Game starts and we're running forward and I get to ghost and start to go and some asshole decides he wanted it first and plasma pistols it then grenade me. Needless to say after that it became a war. I won though cause I intentionally rammed him enough to drain shields twice letting headshots kill him. Then the third time I went full bore at him intentionally missing and hitting a rock to drain my shields. Then I jumped out and let him run me over in the ghost. Sure enough that boot screen comes up and I boot his punk ass. After that we went on to win the game. lol

Worst thing is that when you boot them, you get an empty slot that nobody can fill, so your team is handicapped (probably less than having a griefer around, but still...

 

[User 73706]

I wonder if Chief will keep his trademark armor or if he'll somehow get it Forerunner-ified during the course of the game. I don't know how customization would work otherwise, unless Chief manages to paint his own armor on the new planet thing or something.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I spoke too soon. Team Objective get. (I'll be on in about half an hour if anyone has room.)

 

[O D I N]

I wonder if Chief will keep his trademark armor or if he'll somehow get it Forerunner-ified during the course of the game. I don't know how customization would work otherwise, unless Chief manages to paint his own armor on the new planet thing or something.

It's on the ship with the magnets that upgrade your armor in cyro!

EDIT: Ghal, would be happy to join you/start something up after work (an hour and a half from this post)

 

[Mik2121]

I spoke too soon. Team Objective get. (I'll be on in about half an hour if anyone has room.)

Weird... I... I thought I had you on my friend list... Did... did you delete me? :'(

If so, would you mind if I add you (again)?.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Worst thing is that when you boot them, you get an empty slot that nobody can fill, so your team is handicapped (probably less than having a griefer around, but still...

True but like I said we won it. All said and done after he was booted another left on our team so we were down two. Then a guy on their team quit. So both teams had their handicaps.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=652352703&player=PsychoRaven

 

[GhaleonEB]

Weird... I... I thought I had you on my friend list... Did... did you delete me? :'(

If so, would you mind if I add you (again)?.

I haven't deleted anyone, though I've accidentally nuked the odd FR when deleting mass spam messages. I'll shoot you another, sorry about that.

Edit: what's your GT? It's not in your GAF profile.

 

[Mik2121]

True but like I said we won it. All said and done after he was booted another left on our team so we were down two. Then a guy on their team quit. So both teams had their handicaps.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=652352703&player=PsychoRaven

Haha. Yeah, it feels so good when you win even with handicap


BTW, I kinda guess this isn't the best place to do this, but, would you mind if I add you too? I've not touched the 360 for a while because all my friends wanted to play Black Ops and all that on the PS3, but I got tired of it and went back to the 360 (bought both map packs too!). I definitely enjoy Halo more, but because I'm in Japan I'm worried I might cause some lag sometimes.
Though, I was just playing with a few (most likely) American kids screaming around and we all had good connections, so it might not be that bad after all..

Edit - My GT is M1k2121, but I plan on changing it back to the non-l33t one. I think the old account got erased some months ago, so I guess I just have to pay a few MSFPoints to change my tag, right? If I change it, I keep all my friends, right?..

Edit 2 - Jesus Christ!. 800 points to change a name... :|

 

[neoism]

Nice character art sure but shitty box art.

The only thing ppl care about in 4 is Chief, he has to be on the cover some how.

 

[feel]

It's been that way for awhile, dude.

I guess I don't really read to the left of the posts if the person has a recognizable avatar, and yeah, my first post would've made sense to you immediately if this was something very recent like I thought it was.

 

[Tunavi]

For booties
Got greedy

 

[leonfaria04]

I guess I don't really read to the left of the posts if the person has a recognizable avatar, and yeah, my first post would've made sense to you immediately if this was something very recent like I thought it was.

Go back to your old dragon letters lol

 

[Barrow Roll]

Yup, they pretty much ruin the playlist. That and the OP AR. As soon as the playlist came out I called that it would suck, and look at the population. SMH.

Whatever you say. The grenades were first brought up, and then that. I am not the biggest fan of the playlist, namely because of the power of the AR and how there's only a handful of maps that mostly show up because of how well they play for both Slayer/CTF/Assault. Otherwise maps like Hydra and High Noon rarely appear. Not to mention there's a better Lockout out there, and there can be others like Sanctuary, Ascension, and Turf to be added. But to judge it based on the population is also highly egregious. MLG get about 1000 nightly and that's lower than most of the other playlists not named TO, Classic, and DLC. Population means nothing. You can still get quick games in them no matter what.

So you're basing my entire argument on 4 words which I further elaborated on that you conveniently ignored?

I never said "the best playlists have the highest populations". But to think that there is absolutely no correlation between playlist content and population count is insane. Let's objectively look at each playlist that has been brought up and maybe you'll stop grasping at straws.

Infection: Easy as shit, people like to play easy stuff. High Population.

Team Slayer: Default slayer offering, majority of players for any game usually go for default settings. High Population.

MLG: Specialized playlist that caters to a group of highly competitive players. Niche playlist but the gametypes and maps are optimized and balanced enough that it plays very well for the people that want it. Low population relative to highly populated playlists, but still a lot more than the bottom rung playlists. Supported by dedicated fanbase.

TO: Vast majority of people just like to kill things, this is reality. Objective will always take a backseat to slayer. Coupled with poor playlist management for the majority of Reach's lifespan and it's no wonder it's as low as it is.

DLC: Requires DLC, duh. Not everyone buys DLC and not everyone wants to play only on DLC maps. Understandably low population.

Classic: The lowest of the low. Probably because it's full of a fuck ton of problems. Bloom+faster movement speed doesn't work well. Boosted damage on grenades and ARs is bad. Maps are ugly and aren't designed with the adjusted player movement and jump height. Default on disc map offerings aren't in the playlist. It plays nothing like Classic Halo. It's not what those players want and if you really think the population doesn't reflect that... then that's just nuts. I can guarantee you, that if it actually played anything like Halo 1 or 2 then it would at least draw 1000+ players.

TL;DR:

If population is based on quality, Living Dead and Team Slayer, which is infested with Armor Lock, are the best ones.

That's a very black and white statement to make and does not accurately reflect my feelings on playlist population at all. There are very explainable reasons for why every playlist is as populated as it is. Classic is lowest because it's niche, and on top of that plays poorly for the majority of people that wanted 'Classic Halo'. It's largely been abandoned and only a tiny amount of players remain. MLG is niche but plays well for people that want to play 'MLG Halo' so it's supported bya fairly sizable and supportive amount of players. See the difference?

 

[O D I N]

If population is based on quality, Living Dead and Team Slayer, which is infested with Armor Lock, are the best ones.

Kill it with fire.

Living dead would have been a better playlist in the H3 format; every once in a while with community maps and game types. I haven't seen anything community based in that playlist since it launched. It's the headshot/challenge farming playlist. I used to LOVE zombie gametypes. :-/ Not anymore.

 

[Booties]

For booties
Got greedy

Sorry all I see is 10% gold arena

Me Kyle and Tunavi need 1 more for arena. No scrubs.