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Halo: Reach |OT4| This Thread is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It

Deputy Moonman said:
I know I'm not giving the game itself enough credit, but what would the playlist populations be like if there weren't credits to keep them healthy? I know I can't really attribute everything to credits and challenges, alone, but I'm sure there is some truth behind the thought.

Similar to what they were before they started huge bonus jackpots...

I don't think people are turning the game on to actually get the jackpots, it will change their playlist behavior though, obviously.

People did it for Dbl Exp in H3 anyways. People want shit...nobody is completely altruistic, nobody.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Credits sway the what players play - what playlist for the jackpots, going for Challenges and so on - but not whether they play.

Beaten by juices.
 
People have been playing games for a better score since the days of Pac-Man.

Now simple scores with initials beside the name have been replaced with number ranks. military ranks, badges, new weapons, or new armor to unlock. I think it honestly has less to do with the credits as it does making it to the next level...seeing that bar fill up is addictive.

And hell, can't you remember the whining and bitching that went on when Bungie scrapped the 1-50 ranking system...people couldn't handle the idea that the number representing their record would be hidden, even if the same stat-tracking and match-making is operating in the background.

But for the most part, most of the games people actually bother to put the effort into ranking up in are pretty good. CoD, Halo, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit... hell, even Assassin's Creed multiplayer had a level system...and I went all the way to level 50. :D
 
xxjuicesxx said:
Similar to what they were before they started huge bonus jackpots...

I don't think people are turning the game on to actually get the jackpots, it will change their playlist behavior though, obviously.

People did it for Dbl Exp in H3 anyways. People want shit...nobody is completely altruistic, nobody.
That's true. Also (continuing the 'playlist behavior' line of thinking), I hadn't considered the fact that sometimes it's nice to take a break from normal routines, too. Variety is important.

Still, it's really easy to start wondering about these things when Halo1, 2 and 3 didn't have incentives like credits and challenges to keep people interested in playing, but each of the three Halo games thrived just the same. I guess I'm just empathizing with Ramirez.
 

PNut

Banned
Booties said:
credits are still p lame though. I want a helmet for being the ultimate donger in a game, not playing enough games to get one.

Credits are fine. Just add numbers and some stuff to show off my true skill once I get the highest number. Seems pretty simple.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
The Antitype said:
And hell, can't you remember the whining and bitching that went on when Bungie scrapped the 1-50 ranking system...people couldn't handle the idea that the number representing their record would be hidden, even if the same stat-tracking and match-making is operating in the background.
Except if this is true, which I refuse to believe is so, then there is little to no competitive nature amongst the majority of the players.

Why? Because there is nothing to fight for, no number showing their standing means most players aren't as heavily invested in wanting to win.

When people played with Ranks they knew it was a damn near life or death situation for the number next to their name, so they fought there asses off both to earn a number and keep it, at least in regards to the upper echelon(40 and up). Now I run into or worse get matched with people who have guest or people who quit if there is an early lead. Then there is even the incompetent players and you're expected to carry there unknowing behinds to victory which involves you wielding every single power weapon, AA and grenade you can, only to still pull off at times at best a tie. If Trueskill is there then something is wrong with it.

That said, there was a lot of issues with ranks and I actually think it's for the better they are gone.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
It's pretty pointless to discuss in hindsight, but credits really should have worked differently in my opinion. Perhaps two "types" of armor, one accessible through XP/achievements, and the other through trueskill rank progression. Much like PVE and PVP armor in WoW, even though they'd all just be aesthetic.

That probably would have added another layer onto the gameplay and appeased a broader player base. But it's damn near impossible to lay down a foundation for a system not knowing exactly who it's going to be used.

Meh. :_\
 
The Antitype said:
People have been playing games for a better score since the days of Pac-Man.

Now simple scores with initials beside the name have been replaced with number ranks. military ranks, badges, new weapons, or new armor to unlock. I think it honestly has less to do with the credits as it does making it to the next level...seeing that bar fill up is addictive.

And hell, can't you remember the whining and bitching that went on when Bungie scrapped the 1-50 ranking system...people couldn't handle the idea that the number representing their record would be hidden, even if the same stat-tracking and match-making is operating in the background.

But for the most part, most of the games people actually bother to put the effort into ranking up in are pretty good. CoD, Halo, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit... hell, even Assassin's Creed multiplayer had a level system...and I went all the way to level 50. :D
But Halo isn't an arcade game like Pac-Man, at least it wasn't until Firefight. In regular matchmaking, however, I'm not in it for a score. But I do like to see how I stack up against other players. With a ranking system that isn't hidden, I can climb a ladder and know exactly where I stand. In Reach, the Arena ranking system is very vague. All you know is that for a certain time, against people of a certain skill, you did well enough to be put in a certain percentage of players. But that doesn't really tell you anything. And outside of Arena, you could be dominating, but it might be against lower-skilled players. I'd just like to know where I'm at at all times compared to other players and be able to work on getting better at my play based upon my rank. As is, even though I'm getting credits I feel totally displaced.

I'm sure that ranks were removed to combat all the quitting/cheating/boosting/de-ranking BS, but there has got to be other ways of dealing with that stuff other than making my level of competency completely unknown.

hmmm... I feel like I went off on a tangent. But whatever, lol.
 

Ramirez

Member
Shake Appeal said:
Someone needs to tell all those Living Dead bros about a little game called Left 4 Dead.

I cannot fathom why people enjoy Halo zombies.

Exactly, pretty much every Halo spin off gametype is done a million times better by some other game.

Also, according to Therms, we just got our MLG contracts tonight.

http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=656746485&player=TJ Ram

I heard MLG was looking for some good sword wielders, I'll fit right in.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
I still find it extremely odd Halo 2 zombies was just a hell of a lot better than Halo 3 or Reach zombies. Foundation was an amazing map for zombies though lol

Also I still dont understand why in the hell they never put flood in as the zombies. I could care less if they where in the game or not, Zombies could have been made soooo much better if they would have done zombies based off flood types.
 

Ramirez

Member
wwm0nkey said:
I still find it extremely odd Halo 2 zombies was just a hell of a lot better than Halo 3 or Reach zombies. Foundation was an amazing map for zombies though lol

Also I still dont understand why in the hell they never put flood in as the zombies. I could care less if they where in the game or not, Zombies could have been made soooo much better if they would have done zombies based off flood types.

Why would a skin change make the game better?
 

Donat

Neo Member
GhaleonEB said:
The Game Complete bonus is time-based across all playlists. The longer the game, the more cR you get (there's a cap to each rank).

Speaking of credits, Flying Jay and I did a little work to find out the underlying system (credits per rank * playlist multiplicator * time multiplicator) for all the different playlists in the form of an F.A.Q.
It's not up-to-date because we stopped playing for a while and it's also german only at this time but if GAF is interested we could finish it for the current playlists and translate it.

Tell me if you want to see it, GAF.
 

Riposte

Member
The Antitype said:
People have been playing games for a better score since the days of Pac-Man.

Now simple scores with initials beside the name have been replaced with number ranks. military ranks, badges, new weapons, or new armor to unlock. I think it honestly has less to do with the credits as it does making it to the next level...seeing that bar fill up is addictive.

And hell, can't you remember the whining and bitching that went on when Bungie scrapped the 1-50 ranking system...people couldn't handle the idea that the number representing their record would be hidden, even if the same stat-tracking and match-making is operating in the background.

But for the most part, most of the games people actually bother to put the effort into ranking up in are pretty good. CoD, Halo, Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit... hell, even Assassin's Creed multiplayer had a level system...and I went all the way to level 50. :D

Exp =/= Score.
EDIT: Hell, Ranking(win rate) =/= Score.

Score is used to measure your efforts in order to compete with other people. (Ranking uses score to grade that for you.)
 
Ughh no if I wanted zombies that each played different I'd go play Left 4 Dead and deal with all that weird bullshit...

I like my Halo Zombies that are all the same.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
Ughh no if I wanted zombies that each played different I'd go play Left 4 Dead and deal with all that weird bullshit...

I like my Halo Zombies that are all the same.
Well obviously keep classic zombies in too, but Halo Zombies is getting boring for some so I mean having L4D Zombies wouldn't be terrible as an option, and having options is what Halo is all about right?
 
So like the tank form would get the hammer and overshield but be slow..

and the really fast one would have no shields and a sword?


Oh Ok so you can't get a perfection in Invasion Slayer but I had a awesome moment...I had 25-0 and it was 98-something low we got one kill somewhere else that brought it to 99-whatever one more kill to go and I'm way up on top rock with my sniper on Paradiso, all of a sudden I see a red dot coming to me and I turn and get a body noscope on him as hes running at me with AR and drains my shields but I had jumped off the whole rock platform and I'm falling just forever it seemed, so I pull my needle rifle out and I'm trying to finish him off before I land and fall to my death, I try for a headshot but I'm like this isn't happening so I just bust three quick shots and get a combine explosion for the win game ends and I fall to my death. 26-0. http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=656801749&player=AnArmorLockHero

Moved up to 10% gold from 20%. Few more arena wins should put me back where I belong.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
Havok said:
Then don't place the blame on the players and remove their reward, blame the matchmaking system that can't get an even match together to save its damn life.
I'm not familiar with the intricacies involving their social matchmaking system, but I would have to assume they'd weigh their options of having a long wait time for a match vs. being able to immediately match up and blow through the other team.

And honestly I'm a credits whore, but I have to admit I do enjoy putting another team to absolute shame in less than a few minutes for minimal credits. But that's just me.
 
I think they COULD possibly tighten the MM restrictions in social. It might take longer to get games but if they could do it for the higher populated playlists I think it would work fine.

I noticed that several games of Arena today we played some really close games...so somethings working decently behind the scenes there...

Then in social it all falls to shit, I literally got matched up against a guy today for his FIRST game. Yes way to introduce them to Halo.
 

Striker

Member
Hey You said:
Its nice to have a variety of gametypes in Objective though.
There is.

The core Skirmish/Objective games are: Multi-CTF, Multi-Bomb, Neutral Bomb, One Bomb, One Flag, Team King, Oddball, and 3 Plots. A shame a random gametype like Hot Potato is still living in TO, however.

Another shame is how certain gametypes/map combos are generally appearing and I'm hardly seeing new applicable combinations. For instance, One Bomb on Reflection, Team King on Powerhouse, 3 Plots Asylum, and One Bomb on Powerhouse would be great if they had the marker inside the actual building.

2-Bomb for some reason got axed this past update. :|

Ryaaan14 said:
I'm not familiar with the intricacies involving their social matchmaking system, but I would have to assume they'd weigh their options of having a long wait time for a match vs. being able to immediately match up and blow through the other team.

And honestly I'm a credits whore, but I have to admit I do enjoy putting another team to absolute shame in less than a few minutes for minimal credits. But that's just me.
The issue is not how quickly you can do it, but if you cap a flag or arm the bomb 3 times in a matter of minutes, you will get nothing. But if you score 2 flags, but simply are out to pad the kills just to get more credits, does this really bring better sportsmanship? Reason people do this is to get higher commendations and game complete, but this is really not an encouraging method. Putting it simply, there was no planning to the Reach commendations/cR system for Team Objective and other playlists that primarily utilize CTF, Assault, Oddball, and so forth. Which is a shame after Halo 3's killing of Ranked BTB and Team Objective, where they didn't seem like they were behind those, either.
 

Tawpgun

Member
The credit system in Reach is fine as far as social goes, but it needs to be revamped in Halo 4. Either bring back the EXP on winning only, to make people play to win, or fix these current problems.

1. The challenges suck and payouts make no sense.

2. CoD will actually give you significantly more EXP the better you do. This is not the case for Halo. In Slayer, kills/assists should net you a bunch of credits. Winning the game should come with a HUGE MASSIVE victory bonus. I still can't comprehend how this wasn't added. The problem is that people like idlers and people who lose the game get payed nearly the same amount. The victory bonus should definitely be like an additional 2-3k maybe more. There needs to be an incentive for winning.

3. The Commendation System is almost like an afterthought. They take FOREVER to get and net you very little.

4. Make armor and other swag unlock through ALL the ranks. It basically stops at General and that's stupid.
 

Kuroyume

Banned
Armor should either be unlocked from the get go or unlocked from doing shit in the campaign. Took like 5 or 6 months to unlock the Security helmet. It was pretty retarded. I hate this system. Bring back ranks so people can quit their bitching and leave the armory to the campaign stuff since I don't expect that they'll let people use what they want without having to do shit for it. People shouldn't have to grind to unlock anything. It's stupid. Btw, as far as the armor goes I hope the 343 artists have a bit more imagination. The pieces were better compared to the stuff in 3 but it was still mostly boring. It's like bland action figure crap. Where are my insect and rabbit ears helmets? Unicorn horns and horse tails? The camapign should be all serious and shit but multiplayer is about silly fun.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Co-op campaign playlist is usually a decent place to find players who want to play together well, but my last two games have been filled with guys betraying each other. I just did a no-death run on Exodus with one other player who promptly betrays me right after we hit the switch at the end. It counts as a death. He sends me a message calling me a 'fag' afterward to boot. :\

Similar thing in my last game on Nightfall, getting sniped near the very end. The co-op playlist used to be a bit of a haven from the shitheads that rule the rest of matchmaking, alas.


Wait did we ever play the same co-op playlist? I swear to god from day one it was filled with quitters and team killers. That's why when it came to not dying on a level I just did it with an extra controller or with my friend. Because every damn game it didn't fail someone would kill me, drop, etc
 

Mik2121

Member
Kuroyume said:
Armor should either be unlocked from the get go or unlocked from doing shit in the campaign. Took like 5 or 6 months to unlock the Security helmet. It was pretty retarded. I hate this system. Bring back ranks so people can quit their bitching and leave the armory to the campaign stuff since I don't expect that they'll let people use what they want without having to do shit for it. People shouldn't have to grind to unlock anything. It's stupid. Btw, as far as the armor goes I hope the 343 artists have a bit more imagination. The pieces were better compared to the stuff in 3 but it was still mostly boring. It's like bland action figure crap. Where are my insect and rabbit ears helmets? Unicorn horns and horse tails? The camapign should be all serious and shit but multiplayer is about silly fun.
Definitely this. Reach's armor parts are all way too similar. I guess they wanna keep it all military looking, but.. hell, you can have a pink armor. Why don't you give us silly stuff, or parts that fit certain holidays. I mean.. perhaps a pumpkin just like that is way too much, but maybe a helmet that slightly resembles a pumpkin with a layer of orange paint with scratches and things around.. Or like Kuroyume said, a unicorn horn that's not just a horn, but instead a metallic attachment on top of the head with rows of purple (or team color) lights. Or some sandals instead of the normal boots, or... whatever...

I don't know, there's just too much stuff that could have been done..

And for the more "serious" stuff, maybe elements like a chest full of medals, or the chest part being actually the top of a soldier (UNSC fit shirt?) without the actual chest armor, (you would not be able to use the shoulder pads either, nor the wrist stuff), though this one might look silly :p. Or, err.. a makeshift chest done with Covenant armors, same for the helmet. Dunno, there's a lot of things that could be done :p
 

Hey You

Member
Shake Appeal said:
Someone needs to tell all those Living Dead bros about a little game called Left 4 Dead.

I cannot fathom why people enjoy Halo zombies.
Because we find it fun?

Yes, there's Left 4 Dead but it play the same as Halo, at all. The only similarities is obviously zombies and easy to headshot.

Its fun to hold down an area with some team mates and hold out as long as you can.

Striker said:
There is.

The core Skirmish/Objective games are: Multi-CTF, Multi-Bomb, Neutral Bomb, One Bomb, One Flag, Team King, Oddball, and 3 Plots. A shame a random gametype like Hot Potato is still living in TO, however.
Yeah, but stuff like Covie CTF Assualt Oddball and I'm sure 343i/the Community can come up with different and interesting gametypes. Is it possible to have multiple places you can arm the bomb at?

Another shame is how certain gametypes/map combos are generally appearing and I'm hardly seeing new applicable combinations. For instance, One Bomb on Reflection, Team King on Powerhouse, 3 Plots Asylum, and One Bomb on Powerhouse would be great if they had the marker inside the actual building.
I would have thought that Bungie would have looked at the Gametype/Map combo's and made apprioate adjustments. Two Flag CTF on Zealot and Countdown? Come on now.

2-Bomb for some reason got axed this past update. :|
Decisions like this that Bungie makes, I'll never understand. 2 Bomb is a excellent gametype IMO.


The issue is not how quickly you can do it, but if you cap a flag or arm the bomb 3 times in a matter of minutes, you will get nothing. But if you score 2 flags, but simply are out to pad the kills just to get more credits, does this really bring better sportsmanship? Reason people do this is to get higher commendations and game complete, but this is really not an encouraging method. Putting it simply, there was no planning to the Reach commendations/cR system for Team Objective and other playlists that primarily utilize CTF, Assault, Oddball, and so forth. Which is a shame after Halo 3's killing of Ranked BTB and Team Objective, where they didn't seem like they were behind those, either.
Yeah, easily could have done Challenges and Commendations. (When your team gets a flag cap, when you capture a territory,your team gets a bomb plant etc).
C
hallenges could be "Win 10 CTF Games","Win any objective mode game" or "As a team, get 15 flag captures today", "As a team, capture x Territories" etc

If 343i does a TU, I really hope we get Objective commendations (and challenges). That way, people who are looking for more credits or something else to work towards they can work on the commendations. That would encourage people to actually go for the objective.


The CC's cut off date for submitting maps was Friday, so I assume other MM changes are pretty much set in stone? No point in posting in the Optimatch forum I guess. Hopefully we get details about 343i's plans and if they do MM updates.
 
I think there weren't enough recources for the things you guys are talking about when Bungie was making the game. Although armor and credit payouts certainly are a part of Reach, more people are needed for fixing stuff in campaign and multiplayer and I think we can all agree that those two are way more important then the armory and credits.

That doesn't take away that Bungie should just keep it this way. Armor can't be added easely but credit payouts can and should be ajusted.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
PsychoRaven said:
Wait did we ever play the same co-op playlist? I swear to god from day one it was filled with quitters and team killers. That's why when it came to not dying on a level I just did it with an extra controller or with my friend. Because every damn game it didn't fail someone would kill me, drop, etc
Perhaps I was just lucky. Very seldom have I run into that kind of douchebaggery. Seems to be everywhere in Reach these days. BTB games seem to have idiots and betrayers on my team every game, while Team Objective quickly became not worth the frustration outside of a GAF party (and even then, the generally very poor maps in the playlist hurt it big time).

I think this is why I've been liking Firefight Doubles so much, even though it's almost always Arcadefight. I can sit back and go for my own little challenges (largely no death rounds) and the other guy can't screw with it too much. (Though in most games, they try.)
Donat said:
Speaking of credits, Flying Jay and I did a little work to find out the underlying system (credits per rank * playlist multiplicator * time multiplicator) for all the different playlists in the form of an F.A.Q.
It's not up-to-date because we stopped playing for a while and it's also german only at this time but if GAF is interested we could finish it for the current playlists and translate it.

Tell me if you want to see it, GAF.
I'm interested in the game complete bonus cap per rank. I should have been writing them down as I went - something I only did the past three ranks - but I'm curios to see exactly how it scales.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Hypertrooper said:
How is it possible, that a grenade can kill me when I still have some shield?
This was a test of the grenade radius in a controlled environment:

DILYM.gif
 

neoism

Member
Plywood said:
This was a test of the grenade radius in a controlled environment:

DILYM.gif
lulz my dad knew a guy that was in one of those boats... he said he didn't have one blade of hair on him.. :/
Ramirez said:
Happy Father's Day Halo Daddies!
[/IMG]

I'm training the donger of the future over here.
lol nice lookin kid Ram, you don't look anything like I thought lol :p
 

Havok

Member
Hypertrooper said:
How is it possible, that a grenade can kill me when I still have some shield?

Good games Tunavi!
If you've lost practically any of your shields (or don't have full health), you can be killed by one grenade.

And since the grenade impact (even if its just a bounce) takes off some of your shields, a single grenade can kill from full shields/health. Its incredibly stupid.
 
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