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[Havok]

Edit: wait, I thought Utopie was supposed to be a fixed version of Paradiso? Why am I getting camped by a Banshee still?

Because you can't polish a turd.

Ug. The new BTB is very far from fixed. There's still a lot of really, really bad stuff in here.

That's how I felt immediately after its update. For all the good fixes, there are some new terrible problems created that will probably remain unaddressed for a good long while. Now that I know Jeremiah doesn't plan on fixing Assault in BTB and Premium Battle, I've basically thrown in the towel.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Sigh. Neutral Assault on Valhalla was my favorite game type and map combination in the series to date. Neutral Assault on Hemorrhage is an abomination.

Edit: wait, I thought Utopie was supposed to be a fixed version of Paradiso? Why am I getting camped by a Banshee still?

Ug. The new BTB is very far from fixed. There's still a lot of really, really bad stuff in here.

There is no such thing as a fixed Paradiso. Not possible.

 

[Striker]

Assault that has instant arm will always be garbage.

Multi-Bomb/Waterworks, Neutral Bomb/Coagulation, 1-Bomb Headlong, 1-Bomb/Terminal

Hits the spot.

 

[MrBig]

Because you can't polish a turd.
That's how I felt immediately after its update. For all the good fixes, there are some new terrible problems created that will probably remain unaddressed for a good long while. Now that I know Jeremiah doesn't plan on fixing Assault in BTB and Premium Battle, I've basically thrown in the towel.

Frankie save us!

Last Bungie matchmaking update in two weeks. I still can't believe that this is the same guy who managed H2's playlists.

Assault that has instant arm will always be garbage.

Multi-Bomb/Waterworks, Neutral Bomb/Coagulation, 1-Bomb Headlong, 1-Bomb/Terminal

Hits the spot.

There are still 3 unannounced spots left. I'm hoping for Headlong, Waterworks, and Ice Fields.

 

[kittens]

Because you can't polish a turd.

Hahaha, yup. Paradiso might be my least favorite map ever. Major SMH when I first played it, and it hasn't gotten any better.

 

[Kibbles]

Oh my that reminds me, I should've saved that 16min assault match we had on Paradiso (or the new version of it) a few days ago. We were getting spawn killed up the ass by the banshee and warthogs and a ghost where eventually everyone quit and it was just me and another dude. I was able to finally sneak out with Active Camo and we ended up having a successful bomb run to tie the game. It was a fun match. Started out terrible and I was cursing the map. I felt like quitting, but hanged in there and tried to work around the situation and ended up having a fun time evading all the shit going on around me.

Sorry for the ugly blob of text, busy.

 

[Kuroyume]

Vehicles rule though.... What are you guy whining about? The warthog and banshees can barely survive. Make them stronger for Halo 4. Vehicular play is Halo.

 

[Kibbles]

Vehicles rule though.... What are you guy whining about? The warthog and banshees can barely survive. Make them stronger for Halo 4. Vehicular play is Halo.

The Banshee we faced was like invincible. I was trying to shoot the crap out of it with my DMR and it just kept juking around like an asshole and dropping bombs on us. It was not pretty. Then he had a Warthog and Ghost on the ground picking up the scraps.

 

[MrBig]

Vehicles rule though.... What are you guy whining about? The warthog and banshees can barely survive. Make them stronger for Halo 4. Vehicular play is Halo.

Not one hit kill bombs and exceedingly fast and limitless barrel roll bombing runs.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Hahaha, yup. Paradiso might be my least favorite map ever. Major SMH when I first played it, and it hasn't gotten any better.

I think there are a few ways to salvage it and at least make the island playable. Right now it's ruled by Banshees and snipers. If the Banshee was yanked, and a large soft kill volume placed over the central rock spire, it would get immediately better. The bases could use a major overhaul as well; it's poor design to have an open-top base surrounded by high ground (and also, a Banshee).

The weapon and vehicle sandbox for multiplayer was just not up to snuff in Reach, and the shipping maps are uniformly poor. Paradiso, Hemorrhage, Spire and Boneyard are easily the worst BTB shipping maps in the series. The poor vehicle implementation (Hemorrhage does not need two Ghosts, two Revenants, two Wraiths and two Warthogs) and very poor vehicle health and damage systems just exacerbate things. Toss in the crazy flipping Banshee and it all falls apart.

I loved BTB in all three Halo games so much. Halo 2 was my first online game, and it was all about BTB. Nearly 3/4 of all my Halo 3 games were BTB; it defined all that I loved about Halo. I keep going back to Reach hoping it's gotten better. And it hasn't. Sorry for the rant (again), but it's just now dawning on me that Reach's BTB isn't going to be salvaged. Not by Forge maps, not by game type updates. The core maps and game mechanics just don't facilitate a good game. I've been in deep denial.

I hate to make things personal, but Sage and company really did wreak a lot of stuff that was in great shape up until Reach hit.

 

[Tunavi]

Its always funny when one guy in a banshee will absolutely murder you and your entire team over and over again. Then you finally take it out and later in the match, you get in a banshee thinking, "fuck yeah, payback time."

The other team DMRs your banshee to pieces in about 20 seconds and you get about 2 kills with it.

 

[User 73706]

Its always funny when one guy in a banshee will absolutely murder you and your entire team over and over again. Then you finally take it out and later in the match, you get in a banshee thinking, "fuck yeah, payback time."

The other team DMRs your banshee to pieces in about 20 seconds and you get about 2 kills with it.

Yes, this is basically the only thing I remember about playing Paradiso. That, and one Invasion Slayer match where our entire team kept using the exact same spawn as Spartans and shotgunning all of the advancing elites to death :lol

 

[Tunavi]

Yes, this is basically the only thing I remember about playing Paradiso. That, and one Invasion Slayer match where our entire team kept using the exact same spawn as Spartans and shotgunning all of the advancing elites to death :lol

I also love that feeling when you realize the other team has stolen your tank on paradiso and they now have 2 tanks and 2 banshees as you hide in the caves. lol

These new maps need to be revealed and they need to come out asap. November is too far away...

 

[kittens]

I think there are a few ways to salvage it and at least make the island playable.

...

Yeah, all that makes sense. I'm not especially good at constructive criticism when it comes to Halo MP -- I really just don't have a any sense of what makes a good map. But I know what is fun, and Paradiso is not fun.

Its always funny when one guy in a banshee will absolutely murder you and your entire team over and over again. Then you finally take it out and later in the match, you get in a banshee thinking, "fuck yeah, payback time."

The other team DMRs your banshee to pieces in about 20 seconds and you get about 2 kills with it.

Hah, I've definitely been there.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Yeah, all that makes sense. I'm not especially good at constructive criticism when it comes to Halo MP -- I really just don't have a any sense of what makes a good map. But I know what is fun, and Paradiso is not fun.


Hah, I've definitely been there.

Dude, well said. /high five

 

[GhaleonEB]

Whenever I have a poor experience in Reach's MP, I head over to Firefight to wash it away. Tonight's refreshment was Crashsite, the climax of which was unusually intense.

I find it interesting how game mechanics I strongly dislike in MP are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to Firefight. The gunplay is just superb. Take it into a MP game, and it's frustrating.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Whenever I have a poor experience in Reach's MP, I head over to Firefight to wash it away. Tonight's refreshment was Crashsite, the climax of which was unusually intense.

I find it interesting how game mechanics I strongly dislike in MP are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to Firefight. The gunplay is just superb. Take it into a MP game, and it's frustrating.

If there was a Fiestafight playlist I would play Firefight all day everyday haha.

 

[Ramirez]

I just don't understand the logic of only putting one Banshee on a map, and some how thinking that will make the map more balanced. Next game, put a cooldown on the spinning and flipping of the Banshee, that's usually the way most people abuse it to the best outcome.

This game is starting to bore me lately, mediocre gunplay and some of the most bland, boring maps ever seen in a FPS, starting to run its course again for me. Stupid summer drought, NCAA will save me next month! Sad times if they don't have any DLC planned until the CEA stuff, the game could really use a shot in the arm maps wise again...

Man, that CEA thread makes my head hurt, it's so painfully obvious with Halo when someone has no clue what they're talking about.

 

[Sikamikanico]

Sigh. Neutral Assault on Valhalla was my favorite game type and map combination in the series to date. Neutral Assault on Hemorrhage is an abomination.

Edit: wait, I thought Utopie was supposed to be a fixed version of Paradiso? Why am I getting camped by a Banshee still?

Ug. The new BTB is very far from fixed. There's still a lot of really, really bad stuff in here.

There is no such thing as a fixed Paradiso. Not possible.

I did actually have a try with a map I made called Odyssey. It was submitted to Cartographers, but as it was a similar premise to Utopie, maybe they picked that instead??

My version had a neutral banshee to fight over, but also had plenty of anti Banshee weapons (Two snipers, 1 Laser, Grenade Launcher, Rocket)

The premise was to increase movement across the map via mancannon's etc. You can check out the version on my fileshare.

Check out a video walkthrough here.

There's also a soft kill on the mountain, and rock formations to prevent teams from sitting up high in the middle and raining DMR on a base as players spawn. Not only that, but the bases have been completely redeisgned.

Feel free to check it out. I promise it plays a tonne better than Paradiso.

EDIT: Found a copy of my submission on Halocharts that describes the design a little better:

My favourite kinds of Halo come in two flavours - one is hardcore 4 v 4 slayer and objective. The other is insanely massive 8 v 8 Valhalla style shenanigans. This map is built to honour the latter.

So, Odyssey is a classic 2 base BTB map. The map itself pays homage to several BTB classics but first off it's important to note you can no longer camp on the mountain, nor peek over the top to the enemies base and pepper them with bullets as they spawn.

Vahalla - One of the most important things for me when designing all of the spaces was player movement. You can get around on this map really quickly, even on foot, thanks to helpfully placed Mancannons.

Sandtrap - I used to love that Banshee rush at the beginning of matches on Sandtrap, so I've replicated that Power Weapon rush - I've drawn it out a little though, and if you don't get there first, you'll be happy to know theres a way to quickly get back into the fight, without being stuck in the middle of nowhere thanks to...

Blood Gulch/Coagulation - ...teleporters! One at each base, leading to the middle, as well as one at the Middle structure, which leads to the other side of the map, and the Rocket Platform, which in in itself is a little nod to Ascension.

Standoff - Vehicles play a very important part on this map, especially the warthog. The only difference is, there's a lot more vehicle-wise to play with. 2 Hogs per team, as well as a Ghost, and 4 Mongeese. I know it sounds a lot, but on the limited playtesting I have done, it seems fine.

 

[squidhands]

Its always funny when one guy in a banshee will absolutely murder you and your entire team over and over again. Then you finally take it out and later in the match, you get in a banshee thinking, "fuck yeah, payback time."

The other team DMRs your banshee to pieces in about 20 seconds and you get about 2 kills with it.

Thank god I'm not alone in this. The only decent BTB maps I've played so far are Wayont and Trident, and that's most likely due to not having Banshees.

Whenever I have a poor experience in Reach's MP, I head over to Firefight to wash it away. Tonight's refreshment was Crashsite, the climax of which was unusually intense.

I find it interesting how game mechanics I strongly dislike in MP are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to Firefight. The gunplay is just superb. Take it into a MP game, and it's frustrating.

Total agreement. If Campaign and MP were the only offerings in Reach, I would have tired of the campaign long ago and set the game aside. Multiplayer is just a chore for me with my limited skill and poor sandbox offerings (except the Grenade Launcher, best weapon in the game), so I'm eternally grateful for the awesomeness that is Firefight.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I'd love for the next Halo game to have a Firefight variant where you're on the offense instead of on the defense. Have maps, based on the campaign or entirely new, where your objective is to reach the ending while racking up as much points as possible, but also doing it within a reasonable timeframe. A bit like the Instant Action mode in F.E.A.R., or the mode in Bulletstorm I forgot the name of.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Paradiso is further evidence of Bungie's "all things to all men" approach for Reach's multiplayer, because in effect it is a Battlefield map.

Unfortunately, we play Halo on it.

 

[Miggytronz]

I'd love for the next Halo game to have a Firefight variant where you're on the offense instead of on the defense. Have maps, based on the campaign or entirely new, where your objective is to reach the ending while racking up as much points as possible, but also doing it within a reasonable timeframe. A bit like the Instant Action mode in F.E.A.R., or the mode in Bulletstorm I forgot the name of.

that sounds pretty effn fun.

 

[kylej]

some of the most bland, boring maps ever seen in a FPS, starting to run its course again for me.

Sorry you can't handle the Gritty™, Atmospheric™, and Mature™ look of Reach. The new look is worth it for campaign story purposes imo.

 

[The Librarian]

Whenever I have a poor experience in Reach's MP, I head over to Firefight to wash it away. Tonight's refreshment was Crashsite, the climax of which was unusually intense.

I find it interesting how game mechanics I strongly dislike in MP are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to Firefight. The gunplay is just superb. Take it into a MP game, and it's frustrating.

That was pretty neat. I thought at the end there, when the camera zoomed out, you were gonna t-bag the generator.

Edit: Also, yesterday's RvB episode was pretty bad. Any episode without Sarge and everyone else isn't worth watching.

 

[Louis Wu]

Whenever I have a poor experience in Reach's MP, I head over to Firefight to wash it away. Tonight's refreshment was Crashsite, the climax of which was unusually intense.

I find it interesting how game mechanics I strongly dislike in MP are one of the main reasons I keep coming back to Firefight. The gunplay is just superb. Take it into a MP game, and it's frustrating.

The Gold Elite you killed second was a 3-shot kill. Invisible Elites are 2-shot kills. Even Ultras can be taken down in 4 or 5 shots in 2x. I think this is what makes the difference.

Turn on Tilt, and this would be far more frustrating (and far more like Multiplayer).

That said, I'm still pretty damned impressed that you kept that generator alive; it was SURROUNDED. Kudos.

 

[equil]

I tried going back and playing halo 3 the other day.
I used to be somewhat decent at halo 3, but i guess im so used to hit scan and using the dmr in reach, i was horrible in halo 3.

It actually made me appreciate reach's multiplayer so much more even with it's problems.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The Gold Elite you killed second was a 3-shot kill. Invisible Elites are 2-shot kills. Even Ultras can be taken down in 4 or 5 shots in 2x. I think this is what makes the difference.

Yup, 2x damage in Crashsite, plus an overshield. I like it because it's the only mode where the Covenant doesn't hold back and advance one squad at a time - all 24 enemies swarm toward the generator at once, creating that kind of chaos. Each wave has a pattern that begins with me picking off some of the throng from afar as they advance, followed by an intense bout as they get to the generator. It feels much more like ODST did in that respect, only you have have to hold some specific ground rather than lead the swarm around the map.

(Also, the reason my bacon was saved was the generator unlocked and distracted everyone; if they'd all come at me I'd have been toast.)

I've found the main reason I grew tired of regular Score Attack (other than the single enemy class progression) was how the enemy takes up a holding pattern and sends out one squad at a time, so firefights (ha) only involve four enemies at a time. So I've been playing the heck out of Crashsite lately, because it plays so much differently. I wish there was a way to make the Covenant more aggressive. This holds true of regular Firefight as well. (Even with multiple players, one squad at a time moves forward. I wish that AI trait was tied to player count - two players, two squads advance, and so on.)

Turn on Tilt, and this would be far more frustrating (and far more like Multiplayer).

That said, I'm still pretty damned impressed that you kept that generator alive; it was SURROUNDED. Kudos.

True.

I think they key differentiator in MP is return fire from other players who are also using precision weapons. So it's a race to fire as fast as possible while being able to land the headshot. In Firefight I am often content with rapid body shots as I know exactly how much damage it takes to kill someone, and am not worried about a sudden headshot doming me. (Unless a Nerfle using Jackal or Skirmisher is around, which is why I hid around that corner when my shields dropped.)

 

[dc89]

I tried going back and playing halo 3 the other day.
I used to be somewhat decent at halo 3, but i guess im so used to hit scan and using the dmr in reach, i was horrible in halo 3.

It actually made me appreciate reach's multiplayer so much more even with it's problems.

My bro was still playing Halo 3 up until a few weeks ago.

 

[Blueblur1]

Its always funny when one guy in a banshee will absolutely murder you and your entire team over and over again. Then you finally take it out and later in the match, you get in a banshee thinking, "fuck yeah, payback time."

The other team DMRs your banshee to pieces in about 20 seconds and you get about 2 kills with it.

Always happens to me. Makes me miss the Halo 3 Banshee.

 

[squidhands]

Crashsite

I can't get a vote for Crashsite for the life of me, help.

Spoiler

and by help I mean play Doubles with me

 

[The Real Napsta]

I wonder when we'll get screens of another map from the Anniversary map pack?

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I wonder when we'll get screens of another map from the Anniversary map pack?

Wait didn't you hear? They canceled it. They decided to instead release Halo 2 anniversary with full online support.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Yup, 2x damage in Crashsite, plus an overshield. I like it because it's the only mode where the Covenant doesn't hold back and advance one squad at a time - all 24 enemies swarm toward the generator at once, creating that kind of chaos. Each wave has a pattern that begins with me picking off some of the throng from afar as they advance, followed by an intense bout as they get to the generator. It feels much more like ODST did in that respect, only you have have to hold some specific ground rather than lead the swarm around the map.

(Also, the reason my bacon was saved was the generator unlocked and distracted everyone; if they'd all come at me I'd have been toast.)

I've found the main reason I grew tired of regular Score Attack (other than the single enemy class progression) was how the enemy takes up a holding pattern and sends out one squad at a time, so firefights (ha) only involve four enemies at a time. So I've been playing the heck out of Crashsite lately, because it plays so much differently. I wish there was a way to make the Covenant more aggressive. This holds true of regular Firefight as well. (Even with multiple players, one squad at a time moves forward. I wish that AI trait was tied to player count - two players, two squads advance, and so on.)


True.

I think they key differentiator in MP is return fire from other players who are also using precision weapons. So it's a race to fire as fast as possible while being able to land the headshot. In Firefight I am often content with rapid body shots as I know exactly how much damage it takes to kill someone, and am not worried about a sudden headshot doming me. (Unless a Nerfle using Jackal or Skirmisher is around, which is why I hid around that corner when my shields dropped.)

Do you remember that limited game of unearthed crashsite that we won? With two randoms!?!?

 

[The Henery]

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=660805885&player=The Henery

Can anyone beat this for scrublet tarooskyilled?

One of them asked me midgame if I wanted to join his 'clan'. He sounded about 3 years old.

 

[Tawpgun]

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/GameStats.aspx?gameid=660805885&player=The Henery

Can anyone beat this for scrublet tarooskyilled?

One of them asked me midgame if I wanted to join his 'clan'. He sounded about 3 years old.

Join his clan, and rise through the ranks until you throw a coup to overthrow the 3 year old leader and then banish his ass from his own clan.

So I noticed... we don't have a confirmed BTB map for CEA, besides maybe that Timberland hint.

 

[Nutter]

I just don't understand the logic of only putting one Banshee on a map, and some how thinking that will make the map more balanced. Next game, put a cooldown on the spinning and flipping of the Banshee, that's usually the way most people abuse it to the best outcome.

This game is starting to bore me lately, mediocre gunplay and some of the most bland, boring maps ever seen in a FPS, starting to run its course again for me. Stupid summer drought, NCAA will save me next month! Sad times if they don't have any DLC planned until the CEA stuff, the game could really use a shot in the arm maps wise again...

Man, that CEA thread makes my head hurt, it's so painfully obvious with Halo when someone has no clue what they're talking about.

I hear that Zealot is an awesome map, should play it more often.

Spoiler

Or try Tempest (best map in the game)

 

[Karl2177]

I'd love for the next Halo game to have a Firefight variant where you're on the offense instead of on the defense. Have maps, based on the campaign or entirely new, where your objective is to reach the ending while racking up as much points as possible, but also doing it within a reasonable timeframe. A bit like the Instant Action mode in F.E.A.R., or the mode in Bulletstorm I forgot the name of.

Pardon my lack of knowledge of other games, but you mean something similar to Spec Ops in Modern Warfare 2?

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Join his clan, and rise through the ranks until you throw a coup to overthrow the 3 year old leader and then banish his ass from his own clan.

So I noticed... we don't have a confirmed BTB map for CEA, besides maybe that Timberland hint.

I really want to see Danger Canyon.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Danger_Canyon


edit:

I changed my mind, Ice Fields would be the best looking map ever.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Ice_Fields

 

[Tawpgun]

But it needs to have Ice Physics otherwise its terrible.

 

[The Henery]

Join his clan, and rise through the ranks until you throw a coup to overthrow the 3 year old leader and then banish his ass from his own clan.

So I noticed... we don't have a confirmed BTB map for CEA, besides maybe that Timberland hint.

HAHA I would but they're probably infection pro's.

I don't play it in Reach but a BTB map i'd like to see back is Avalanche

Spoiler

inb4 Striker

, some of my fondest, most epic Halo memories were played on that map.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

But it needs to have Ice Physics otherwise its terrible.

That is what I was thinking, the "slippery ice" would be FANTASTIC

 

[Tawpgun]

Honestly I think the entire Reach Sandbox killed BTB and no map can ever make it as good as it was.

Although I still say Highlands would be the closest if there was only SOMETHING WORTH A DAMN IN THE MIDDLE (inb4 Dax Propipe Defense Force)

Right now it's a fun map but people stay in the bases too much. Rockets and Sniper? Honestly... What's the point of leaving?

 

[Tha Robbertster]

HAHA I would but they're probably infection pro's.

I don't play it in Reach but a BTB map i'd like to see back is Avalanche

Spoiler

inb4 Striker

, some of my fondest, most epic Halo memories were played on that map.

I have a friend who would litarely refuse buy it if Avalanch was included. He hates that map with a passion.

I wouldn't mind it and with air vehicles that CAN make a difference (the transport hornet wasn't really a treath...). But if Avalanch is included, they should make a transport version of the Falcon, that's what I'm missing on the Falcon right now.

 

[Major Williams]

Picked up some Turtle Beach x41's and Logitech F540 headphones for comparison between wireless headsets.

I'll be using them throughout the week before I decide on one.

Both are great, but I think I'm leaning towards the Logitech... I did way better last night on Reach with these on than the Turtle beach's - greater sound quality even though its stereo output.

Anyone else know of good wireless top-ish tier gaming headsets? I saw some from Razer and Plantronics... but I didn't know how good they would be.

 

[LunaticPuma]

Honestly I think the entire Reach Sandbox killed BTB and no map can ever make it as good as it was.

Although I still say Highlands would be the closest if there was only SOMETHING WORTH A DAMN IN THE MIDDLE (inb4 Dax Propipe Defense Force)

Right now it's a fun map but people stay in the bases too much. Rockets and Sniper? Honestly... What's the point of leaving?

I agree. It would be better to have rockets in the open middle area. Snipers can still be at the base. That would come closer to replicating Blood Gulch/Valhalla play with a central power weapon in the open and sniper support from each base.

I also managed to get my wife to play this past weekend (she used to play often in Halo 2 and 3), and her thoughts on Reach were pretty much "this just doesn't feel like Halo."

 

[BigShow36]

BTB (and Reach in general) won't be fixed by simple in-game playlist management. Sure, it may become slightly more palatable, but in general, the overall balance of Reach's weapons, vehicles, and player traits just isn't fun. It needs some hard-coded tweaking to become a Halo game we all can love, which simply isn't going to happen. Here's to hoping Halo 4 returns the seriest to its roots; simple, addicting, skillful gameplay.

 

[MrBig]

Switching between Battlefield and Reach is awesome. My bullets, they actually collide with the player model in Reach! Not to mention the collision model is actually accurate to the player model.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Switching between Battlefield and Reach is awesome. My bullets, they actually collide with the player model in Reach! Not to mention the collision model is actually accurate to the player model.

Make Halo more like battlefield! JK, that would be interesting though.

A Halo Game where you play as marines.

 

[The Henery]

Make Halo more like battlefield! JK, that would be interesting though.

A Halo Game where you play as marines.

The Prequel to Halo Reach 'the game where it all began'

Slower strafe speed
Lower jump height
Instant kill grenades
Prone for accuracy

The definitive Halo