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[Slightly Live]

Not sure how much can be done withThe big thing is I'd like to see more attention paid to the settings on a per-map basis within a playlist, rather than a single game type and load out set applied to all of them. Details matter, and the details are where the past playlist approach fell short.

Have to agree. Whilst a one-shoe-fits-all approach makes for a smoother and easier updating experience in the backend, it doesn't always translate that well into the actual playlists and some of the gametype and map combinations that have popped up over the few months.

Also, Invasion needs deleting.

 

[Devin Olsen]

Wait.

Aren't you supposed to get the same slot machine credits/jackpot as all of the other players in your party?

My friend just got the 30k cR meanwhile I got none

 

[FyreWulff]

Wait.

Aren't you supposed to get the same slot machine credits/jackpot as all of the other players in your party?

My friend just got the 30k cR meanwhile I got none

Normal jackpot (the 3000cR one) is given to everyone in that game.

The super jackpot is on a per-person basis.

 

[Slightly Live]

Wait.

Aren't you supposed to get the same slot machine credits/jackpot as all of the other players in your party?

My friend just got the 30k cR meanwhile I got none

Big jackpot bonuses are on unique random basis per player. You get in on top of the regular team jackpot.

Edit: D'oh, Fyre.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I like Bloom.

Tashi how would you fix the melee system?

 

[Trasher]

I like Bloom.

Tashi how would you fix the melee system?

He would incorporate the MLG melee system most likely.

 

[zumphry]

I'll come online, too. We need Zayne damn.

Yeah, sorry. Haven't had internet since yesterday morning.

 

[Slightly Live]

Things around playlist management would be the removal of Evade and camo from all non-Elite players and some big time clean up in BTB, such as Territories on Spire. I'm sure everyone has their own long list.

Thinking about it, I disagree about Evade. The community has already pushed for the removal of Armour Lock out of many of the playlists, some of the removals being gameplay related with Armour Locking over objectives and other times just because a large amount of folks just don't like it.

I could easily justify why I think not only should Evade be toned down with Armour Lock, but the Jet-Pack should follow suit be similarly banished just like the Drop Shield.

In the end we'll end up with just Sprint and Hologram. Sprint because it serves a useful purpose and many people fall back and use it because they don't like the other Abilities or because the game forces you to choose something and Hologram because nobody really cares about it enough to complain in the first place and at most it's just a minor distraction.

I think it's best to strip out Armour Abilities altogether. Or lockup the AA fans in a room away from everyone else. I doubt we'll see that kind of far reaching change in Reach.

Armour Abilities sound so awesome on paper and maybe the first few times we tried them out. Ultimately they just take Halo further and further away from that core "Classic" experience that has fueled the series multiplayer for years (AA limited to the Campaign would raise no objections from me).

I might have to sit and wait for Halo 4 and hope Armour Abilities become a distant memory. The best tweaks, balances or scaling back of their use will never fully return Reach to being proper Halo in my eyes. As long as someone can use the Jet-Pack to bypass a map's intended flow, it will always be broken.

 

[Tashi]

I like Bloom.

Tashi how would you fix the melee system?

I don't like that you can cancel a melee by switching guns or dropping an objective. That shit happens to me all the time because I don't wait for the melee to connect, it's a bad habit. :lol

First I want to say that I think the melee system in Reach works, it just might not be the best. I think if you make the system bleed through to kill you need to make grenades weaker and have 3 shots an a melee kill. However with this system currently, I'm finding simulataneous melee kills are way down from Halo 3.

One more thing to add to my list, simulatenous gun kills suck.

 

[FyreWulff]

Simultaneous gun kills have been in Halo since #1, though. Bad thing about Halo 1 is when it happened, only one person got credit for a kill. The other one just got killed by the Guardians.


Also, I'm cycling through all the nameplates leading up to Bungie Day. Today is DMR Nameplate day. I honestly have barely seen this one being used.

 

[Tashi]

Simultaneous gun kills have been in Halo since #1, though. Bad thing about Halo 1 is when it happened, only one person got credit for a kill. The other one just got killed by the Guardians.


Also, I'm cycling through all the nameplates leading up to Bungie Day. Today is DMR Nameplate day. I honestly have barely seen this one being used.

Nothing to the level it is in Reach though.

 

[Kuroyume]

Evade on Spartans has always been the worst of the armor abilities. Armor Lock got all of the attention because it was in most of the playlists. Evade was hardly there at launch but has now infested the game. I'll take having to deal with the best Armor Lock user over someone using Evade anytime. When I see a Spartan rolling it agitates me. So annoying.

Still don't understand the complaints about Camo as it's the only armor ability that also handicaps the user, and in multiple ways too. I guess if you use Hologram or Sprint I could understand complaining but it's the lesser of the evils when you look at it alongside Jetpack, Armor Lock, and Evade.

 

[MrBig]

Evade on Spartans has always been the worst of the armor abilities. Armor Lock got all of the attention because it was in most of the playlists. Evade was hardly there at launch but has now infested the game. I'll take having to deal with the best Armor Lock user over someone using Evade. When I see a Spartan rolling it agitates me. So annoying.

Still don't understand the complaints about Camo as it's the only armor ability that also handicaps the user, and in multiple ways too. I guess if you use Hologram or Sprint I could understand complaining but it's the lesser of the evils when you look at it alongisde Jetpack, Armor Lock, and Evade.

I hate camo and don't understand the complaints about evade. While Halo does play best without radar, it does have a pretty terrible effect of affecting other people (even on you own team) instead of just yourself.

But then again the only AA I see as actually being worth anything is Hologram (sprint shouldn't have been necessary, but it is thanks to walking be so abysmally slow)

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Simultaneous gun kills have been in Halo since #1, though. Bad thing about Halo 1 is when it happened, only one person got credit for a kill. The other one just got killed by the Guardians.

Seems like everythings been in Halo since Halo1...what is up with you being so fixated on this shit?

 

[FyreWulff]

Seems like everythings been in Halo since Halo1...what is up with you being so fixated on this shit?

Uh.. I'm not fixated on anything. I just enjoy pointing out when "new" things have been around before.

You can do it yourself!

Load up Halo 1

Set to no shields and low health

Get two controllers

Melee each other at the same time

Witness as both of you die and one gets Killed By The Guardians

 

[Barrow Roll]

No, I don't think MS is going to ship a 5+GB TU. Plus almost 2GB of map packs again.

People that don't want bloom probably should just wait for Halo 4. It's about 99% more likely to happen there, if 343 doesn't want it.

For all the people on capped connections, they'd either not have enough bandwidth to actually complete the update, or they'd finish patching and have to wait until the next month to actually play.

Bloomless classic weapons in the Classic Map Pack is what people should be expecting more, not a retroactive removal of bloom from the entire game, as it'd require changing the RoF on the DMR, Pistol, and AR to compensate, otherwise 90% of the sandbox will become useless with a bloomless DMR.

As many other people have stated, you do not know the extent of the changes 343 is able to make. You're simply making assumptions based on what hackers have discovered within the shipped disc but that's not conclusive. I've witnessed mods for Smash Bros Brawl that drastically change the mechanics of the game with just a few lines of code. Things that were thought impossible were cracked and modified over time. Which is why I say, stranger things have happened. If people want to hope that a garbage mechanic like bloom could possibly be removed from Halo then I say let them. At least until official word says it's not happening.

 

[Nutter]

Guys guys I have figured it out, since everything was in Halo 1, Reach is Halo CE in a different dimension.

 

[Tashi]

:lol :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

Thinking about it, I disagree about Evade. The community has already pushed for the removal of Armour Lock out of many of the playlists, some of the removals being gameplay related with Armour Locking over objectives and other times just because a large amount of folks just don't like it.

I could easily justify why I think not only should Evade be toned down with Armour Lock, but the Jet-Pack should follow suit be similarly banished just like the Drop Shield.

In the end we'll end up with just Sprint and Hologram. Sprint because it serves a useful purpose and many people fall back and use it because they don't like the other Abilities or because the game forces you to choose something and Hologram because nobody really cares about it enough to complain in the first place and at most it's just a minor distraction.

I think it's best to strip out Armour Abilities altogether. Or lockup the AA fans in a room away from everyone else. I doubt we'll see that kind of far reaching change in Reach.

Armour Abilities sound so awesome on paper and maybe the first few times we tried them out. Ultimately they just take Halo further and further away from that core "Classic" experience that has fueled the series multiplayer for years (AA limited to the Campaign would raise no objections from me).

I might have to sit and wait for Halo 4 and hope Armour Abilities become a distant memory. The best tweaks, balances or scaling back of their use will never fully return Reach to being proper Halo in my eyes. As long as someone can use the Jet-Pack to bypass a map's intended flow, it will always be broken.

My general position is to put armor abilities in their place (in Reach....I really hope the approach to equipment/abilities are handled differently in Halo 4), and I think most of them have a place. I wasn't arguing for Evade gone entirely, but moved to game types where it fits better. Seeing guys in Speed Flag dodging all over the place with the flag, is bonkers, and it's infuriating in regular game types to have players bunny hopping all over the place with swords, hammers and shotguns. I'm to the point where I'd almost rather have armor lock. It would have to be one mean nerf for me to turn around on it.

It makes sense to me for Elites in Invasion to be going camo and evading, or for many maps (not all) to have jetpack. Personally, I'd set Sprint and Hologram as the default pair of armor abilities, with a few others depending on the map and game type.

I like sprint because it's only when I'm sprinting that I feel semi-agile. The base traits in regular MP just feel so sluggish and limiting, it's not nearly as fun or easy to move around levels, strafe and dodge as is.

Ah crap that reminds me there was a clip I wanted to get from a recent Firefight game, but my daughter just tossed Oblivion in so it's gone. I'm going to do a big post on the design problems Unearthed has. It's a very clunky map to move around on.

 

[Booshka]

Seems like everythings been in Halo since Halo1...what is up with you being so fixated on this shit?

I won a 1v1 game of Halo 1 on a traded Pistol kill. I was at 24 and my friend was at 22 kills. We both got a TSK on each other and I won 25-23. It registered both kills. It was also probably the most badass thing I've seen in Halo, us both doing the headshot twirl after a traded 3-shot.

 

[Crucio]

So why was my Weekly reset? On a Sunday no less? Still says I got 42 Weeklies done. Free Credits?

 

[Tashi]

I don't think Juices is questioning whether or not that's true.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I might have to sit and wait for Halo 4 and hope Armour Abilities become a distant memory.

Halo 2 brought dual wielding and took away the pistol & AR. 3 brought equipment & the AR. Reach took away dual wielding (minimised in 3 anyway) and brought AAs.
I do wonder how those newer to Reach would react to a AA-less Halo 4.

There has to be something in that vein, right?

 

[FyreWulff]

I've witnessed mods for Smash Bros Brawl that drastically change the mechanics of the game with just a few lines of code.

Comparing mods to a completely different engine that weren't even able to work across the internet without everyone else also having the modded disc data to what is possible to do in a Reach TU just gave me a pretty good laugh.

You can do anything to a .map with a few lines of code or changing a couple of variables and play it over LAN as long as everyone else has the same modded .maps. Doesn't mean it'll all fit within the TU limits over Live or work with previous versions or be feasible money and time wise.

 

[Tashi]

Armor abilities >> Dual Wielding >>>>>>>> Equipment

With the correctly implementation

Spoiler

MLG

Armor Abilities are a great addition.

 

[The Librarian]

Armor abilities >> Dual Wielding >>>>>>>> Equipment

With the correctly implementation

Spoiler

MLG

Armor Abilities are a great addition.

Tashi, you so crazy.

 

[MrBig]

Tashi, you so crazy.

He's right imo. Dual wielding was plagued with issues and equipment can only be used once. At least MLG's interpretation of AAs is tactical.

 

[equil]

Anyone else think the grenade damage should be like the melee damage? 1 grenade should only take off your shields, no matter what. The second should kill.

 

[Booshka]

I don't think Juices is questioning whether or not that's true.

Yea I shouldnt have quoted him, it just reminded me of a cool story, and also that traded kills weren't always a Killed by The Guardians scenario.

 

[Stripper13]

I love Reach - but I'd quite happily see some major changes when it comes to bloom/melee/grenades.

Grenades need to be toned down considerably. Amazing weapon/feature that separates Halo from the rest of the FPS crowd. However the ability to start with 2 plasmas in some load outs is atrocious. More importantly, whether it's the throwing properties, AOE, damage or the fact that you start with 2 at their current power level - they are power weapons in all but the most novice players. The fact that it's a common and legitimate strategy to throw both grenades in someone's general direction before dying, is proof enough that the skill gap with grenades is much smaller than in previous games. Obviously a player who is good with then will do better, but the number of seemingly random luck grenades that have killed me from the grave is ridiculous and something I never experienced on this level - in previous Halo games. Needless to say it's not a good change.

Melee is pretty close to where it needs to be. The double pummel is a crutch for novice players or a cheap method for players to go 1-for-1 in tough situations. The 'back up and headshot' technique post-melee is frantic and quite often luck of the draw when it comes to pistol bloom/spread. Worse yet, the 'momentum' behind jumps/strafes etc, means that I can often feel pressured into a double pummel because I jumped at the wrong time. It's not absolutely broken or anything - and certainly there is a considerable skill gap in terms of dealing with the attempted double melee, but it's still a crutch - one that is far too quick and effective. I'm not sure what the change should be. I'd like to think that a more significant cooldown between strikes would be the solution to player behaviour Moreso than preventing the technique altogether, but it needs some attention regardless.

Bloom is a tough issue. In hindsight - it should never have been as prominent and significant as it is now. But the idea is sound, I like the idea that abusing the maximum ROF on a gun means less accuracy. However the result is the possibility that someone will get lucky by spamming as fast as possible. The vast majority of players who are better with precision weapons will win accordingly - but there should never be an issue where a less skilled player can outgun you via luck. I don't think bloom is going anywhere in Reach. Some adjustments will be nice - and I think watching the reticule shrink perfectly in sync while aiming for a headshot is among the best feelings I've had playing any game/Halo-title - so I'm not against it fundamentally. However the skill gap is too small and the luck factor too significant.

I'd love to see armor lock removed from Slayer entirely - but I think you'd abolish a quarter of the userbase in one swift move. I know many people personally who would perform terribly without AL and stop playing Reach soon afterwards. I think some adjustments to it's properties is a fair solution. The concept is good - but it is simply too useful/spammable in it's current form.

 

[GhaleonEB]

He's right imo. Dual wielding was plagued with issues and equipment can only be used once. At least MLG's interpretation of AAs is tactical.

I think there is room for all three of these things in a Halo game:

• Armor abilities that you can use repeatedly on a cool down (sprint)
  
• Pick ups that activate once you touch them (over shield)
  
• Equipment that deploys once (trip mine)

My biggest issue with armor abilities is that Reach tries to use them to be all three.

All three of these can even exist in the same game at once, so long as players know what they do and they're deployed correctly into the game types.

Comparing mods to a completely different engine that weren't even able to work across the internet without everyone else also having the modded disc data to what is possible to do in a Reach TU just gave me a pretty good laugh.

I think we all get that you know a fair bit about the technical side about Reach (or at least, think you do), but you've been pretty condescending in the discussion of it today. Let people speculate.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Comparing mods to a completely different engine that weren't even able to work across the internet without everyone else also having the modded disc data to what is possible to do in a Reach TU just gave me a pretty good laugh.

Condescending comment, cute. I wasn't making a direct comparison. Just using an example to state that things that people once thought were impossible have been cracked and changed. What was thought impossible was made possible, therefore, stranger things have happened.

Once again, you don't know what 343 is able to change, so you best stop acting like you're this bastion of knowledge surrounding the possible changes that 343 can make. You don't know what tech they have at their disposal or what new discoveries or coding tricks they have created. If they come out say "Bloom can't be changed" then feel free to dance around saying I told you so. Until then, you really have no business crushing peoples hopes, even if they are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Spawn everybody with FRGs in every gametype, including MLG and Arena.

Keep settings like that until the Halo community donates a total of 117,000 gallons of plasma to the Red Cross.

If they did that but made it double CR then there would probably be a population boost lol.

 

[Booshka]

If they did that but made it double CR then there would probably be a population boost lol.

As long as they didn't touch Living Dead

Spoiler

#1 Playlist :lol

, the Reach community would be okay with the credit boost regardless of any gameplay nonsense.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

As long as they didn't touch Living Dead

Spoiler

#1 Playlist :lol

, the Reach community would be okay with the credit boost regardless of any gameplay nonsense.

I honestly think most players are CR driven, even the dudes who just play crazy gametypes like Infection. I reckon you could turn Invasion into ffa MLG and as long as the CR payout was doubled the casual crowd would love it.

Im still not entirely sure why they cant create a new class of code which simply sets the bloom values in the .map files to figures where they literally dont impact on gameplay at all. I dont have a clue what the code for xbox games looks like, but I imagine that kind of stuff is restricted as it would be a potential loophole for modders?

 

[Tashi]

I'm gonna test grenade magnetism. Let's hope I don't find anything.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I'm gonna test grenade magnetism. Let's hope I don't find anything.

I dont think nade magnetism is a problem? I havent noticed it I dont think, I just think the general blast radius and damage is too high. Nade magnetism in Black Ops is horrible though, in that game they will literally land and then roll towards the nearest player, even uphill I think lol.

 

[Tashi]

Tashi, you so crazy.

That's not a crazy statement. Dual wielding was never properly balanced in Halo 2 and 3. BR still dominated and the SMG is a shit gun. Equipment in Halo 3 was complete bullshit. Oh I'm killing you, you're about to die!! Bubble shield! Oh I'm shooting you, you're about to get out BR'd! Shield re-generator. Radar jammer is stupid because radar sucks in the first place. Power drain is a joke. You can instantly drop the shields of multiple players. Trip mine is a good idea but I'm not too sure about the execution. It always seemed laggy. Uhh what else was there. Flare. I guess that's ok but you blinded yourself every time you used it :lol Gravity lift was OK but I can see it being better as a AA where you could jump higher. All that shit was janky.

I'm not saying armor abilities are perfect either. I tend to think that loadouts are broken and not the armor abilities themselves. But then I think, no wait, camo sucks and armor lock sucks. Evade works but not as a loadout. Put it as a pick up on the map and it becomes a power up. Something to fight over. Very valuable. Hologram is super cool. Sprint is magical.

I dont think nade magnetism is a problem? I havent noticed it I dont think, I just think the general blast radius and damage is too high. Nade magnetism in Black Ops is horrible though, in that game they will literally land and then roll towards the nearest player, even uphill I think lol.

Really?! That's hilarious. I haven't played enough of that game to notice it.

In Reach I feel like no matter where I see that grenade, where my headphones tell me it is, it's landing under my feet and causing maximum damage. I just don't understand how random ass grenades can clink and clank in with me trying to move out of the way, hit me like they do.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

That's not a crazy statement. Dual wielding was never properly balanced in Halo 2 and 3. BR still dominated and the SMG is a shit gun. Equipment in Halo 3 was complete bullshit. Oh I'm killing you, you're about to die!! Bubble shield! Oh I'm shooting you, you're about to get out BR'd! Shield re-generator. Radar jammer is stupid because radar sucks in the first place. Power drain is a joke. You can instantly drop the shields of multiple players. Trip mine is a good idea but I'm not too sure about the execution. It always seemed laggy. Uhh what else was there. Flare. I guess that's ok but you blinded yourself every time you used it :lol Gravity lift was OK but I can see it being better as a AA where you could jump higher. All that shit was janky.

I'm not saying armor abilities are perfect either. I tend to think that loadouts are broken and not the armor abilities themselves. But then I think, no wait, camo sucks and armor lock sucks. Evade works but not as a loadout. Put it as a pick up on the map and it becomes a power up. Something to fight over. Very valuable. Hologram is super cool. Sprint is magical.



Really?! That's hilarious. I haven't played enough of that game to notice it.

In Reach I feel like no matter where I see that grenade, where my headphones tell me it is, it's landing under my feet and causing maximum damage. I just don't understand how random ass grenades can clink and clank in with me trying to move out of the way, hit me like they do.

I think Evade would be better as a pick up. Im really not a fan of sprint, I feel that it kind of kills the flow of combat at times, and takes away the need to really control the map. Sure it can players into combat quicker, but the disadvantage is what it does to the combat.

As for the Black Ops frags, you would hate them.

 

[wwm0nkey]

You know what would make AA's better? If they where only on map and people dropped them when they died.

 

[Hydranockz]

Someone comes in here with far more insight and knowledge about the tech than any of us honestly do and ye all freak out cuz he is the one thing standing in the way of your bloomless wet dreams. Sure he doesn't know everything that's possible but at least he can establish a groundwork of understanding of what is currently possible. Which, at the very least, will let us appreciate what 343 eventually do.

 

[MrBig]

You know what would make AA's better? If they where only on map and people dropped them when they died.

it's a losing battle

 

[wwm0nkey]

Someone comes in here with far more insight and knowledge about the tech than any of us honestly do and ye all freak out cuz he is the one thing standing in the way of your bloomless wet dreams. Sure he doesn't know everything that's possible but at least he can establish a groundwork of understanding of what is currently possible. Which, at the very least, will let us appreciate what 343 eventually do.

I dont think we freaked out, I thought it was a nice little debate

 

[Tashi]

LOL I'm playing MLG right now. They were pulling flag when the host quit (my teammate) and they were unable to capture that flag. But, there was one back at my base still. They had 2 of our flags out. My last dumbass teammate pulled their flag, they returned it and then score 2 flags right in a row. Shit was retarded :lol

 

[Striker]

Armor abilities >> Dual Wielding >>>>>>>> Equipment

With the correctly implementation

Spoiler

MLG

Armor Abilities are a great addition.

I personally rather no such things as equipment or armor abilities. Dual wielding wasn't nearly as bad as starting with an AR. I'm not sure 343 will introduce them back but I would welcome it over AR's for sure.

And simultaneous shots/beatdowns may have occurred in Halo 1, but they went overload in Halo 3 and Reach. The beatdowns in Halo 3 were borderline hilarious. Took away any skill whatsoever.

 

[Hydranockz]

I dont think we freaked out, I thought it was a nice little debate

If only. Some of the other's snarky posts aimed at him are pathetic though in fairness.

 

[The Henery]

If only. Some of the other's snarky posts aimed at him are pathetic though in fairness.

You don't think there was something of a haughty arrogance to his posts either? Whatever, it's all academic anyways, at this point I think it would be a bit of a pr disaster for 343 to hype this TU as a 'return to classic Halo' and then not deliver on some form of bloomless gameplay. The 'deadly and efficient accuracy' is too strong a hint. However, I am with Fyrewolf in thinking that they won't tinker with the existing weapon set and its attendant bloom; I read a comment from Frankie (I think) somewhere implying that the two styles of Halo can co-exist in Reach, so it does seem that them adding in a bloomless BR is a more likely scenario.

 

[Nutter]

Someone comes in here with far more insight and knowledge about the tech than any of us honestly do and ye all freak out cuz he is the one thing standing in the way of your bloomless wet dreams. Sure he doesn't know everything that's possible but at least he can establish a groundwork of understanding of what is currently possible. Which, at the very least, will let us appreciate what 343 eventually do.

So he works at 343? I mean knowing programming and using logic is great and all, but it still does not mean he knows what things 343 is doing. For all we know it could be some trick into making bloom less bloomy.. or w/e. Stating his own personal logic behind a prediction is great but to tell others they are all (wrong or dreaming high) when its a prediction is stupid.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Again hopefully we find out Wednesday in the Halo Bulletin more of what the new TU includes.

 

[Stripper13]

I 100% agree with Tash about grenades. I do everything in my bumper jumper powers to avoid sloppily thrown grenades from medicore players - and constantly hear the metal on metal sound of a dead-on grenade. It subsequently destroys whatever is left of my shields+health. I'm not certain it's magnetism - but either lag or unpredictability are causing way too many frag deaths.