Hypertrooper
Member
I'll come online, too. We need Zayne damn.Hydranockz said:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo: Reach |OT4| This Thread is Not Your Grave, But You Are Welcome In It
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
bobs...onGaf
Member
vhfive said:
If we are lucky the news that bloom has been nuked. There was an update by 343 discussing a title update.
Just played the new MLG v5 map Redemption. CTF 5 flag. We got 5-0'd but my initial impressions are positive. It's simple, symmetrical and a pretty good size. The spawns worry me though. A few times I spawned pretty close to the opponents base. I'm looking forward to playing on it some more.
Barrow Roll
Member
Stranger things have happened. Let people hope.FyreWulff said:
Barrow Roll said:
No, I don't think MS is going to ship a 5+GB TU. Plus almost 2GB of map packs again.
People that don't want bloom probably should just wait for Halo 4. It's about 99% more likely to happen there, if 343 doesn't want it.
For all the people on capped connections, they'd either not have enough bandwidth to actually complete the update, or they'd finish patching and have to wait until the next month to actually play.
Bloomless classic weapons in the Classic Map Pack is what people should be expecting more, not a retroactive removal of bloom from the entire game, as it'd require changing the RoF on the DMR, Pistol, and AR to compensate, otherwise 90% of the sandbox will become useless with a bloomless DMR.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
FyreWulff said:
But by your own reckoning, the new CEA maps could be shipped without bloom.
bobs...onGaf
Member
FyreWulff said:
Nah dude, its easy:
if(superawesometitleupdate){
Bloom=0.00000001;
}
I was just over exaggerating for the sake of VH, I understand bloom is probably going to stay with us.
Dani said:
Only for classic weapons included in the .map. It wouldn't make sense to have the DMR suddenly be no-bloom in the Classic maps but act normally in the other maps, especially because it's not a classic weapon either.
They could include a bloomless Halo 1 pistol (to simulate the bug from Halo 1) and a bloomless Halo 2 BR if they wanted to, though.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
FyreWulff said:
They can tweak the existing weapons to mimic, maybe not perfectly, the properties of older weapons without having go to the extreme lengths of adding anything new in there.
From the Halo Bulletin, it seems as if they are hinting towards tweaking the existing stuff. Fall damage, I imagine, would be a few values to change here and there.
Dani said:
Adding new weapons to .maps isn't an extreme measure, though. It's a feature of the tag system and the .map format.
It's almost TOO easy to do so - it gets annoying when people throw in stuff like the Half Life crowbar into a Halo 2 Vista map because they could..
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
FyreWulff said:
I wasn't implying the act of inserting content into the game would be difficult but adding anything to the sandbox as it exists would require tweaking, balancing, testing and host of other issues.
It would be much simpler to take the existing sandbox and modify the properties on a few of the weapons so that they have similar to their older counterparts and have that "classic" feel to them.
Adding weapons or even new skins would be more than I would be expecting from a "small" update.
The problems with Reach won't be disappearing though, no matter how great the TU is. Next year's TU2 $60 retail release will be the patch we all want (I hope!).
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
FyreWulff said:
Neither of which I want or expect to see in Reach, TU or not.
I want the sandbox re-balanced (to the best that they can with Reach) not broken again in a different way.
Nutter said:
Actually I have a pretty good idea because a bunch of people have reverse engineered the engine to New Mombasa and back. We have a pretty good idea of what 343 can actually accomplish with a TU within MS's guidelines.
Other people even more familiar with the inner workings are going to tell you the same things I am. Bloom is client-side and determined by the .map. The only way to remove bloom is to ship the entire .map again. If you think they're actually going to fudge the sandbox that hard in a TU, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
But I guess wild speculation in here is allowed, but not actual predictions based on actual knowledge of the Halo/Blam! engine? LOL
Again I say we can assume all we want about the Tu because we still dont know what all they can and will do with it.
Also if there is no fall damage as an option with this update who says they didnt just change the fall damage value to 0.00001 or some crap like that and who says they cant do the same with bloom? Changing values would not require a .map reship would it? I wouldnt think so.
Also if there is no fall damage as an option with this update who says they didnt just change the fall damage value to 0.00001 or some crap like that and who says they cant do the same with bloom? Changing values would not require a .map reship would it? I wouldnt think so.
wwm0nkey said:
Whether you receive fall damage is determined by the host, and the engine already has the ability to let you fall great distances without getting stunned or taking damage (set your gravity really low and walk off a high ledge in Sword Base, or jump off the Spire in a really laggy game or while the host is leaving - you won't take damage or get stunned)
It would not require shipping a new .map for every multiplayer map. Bloom and fall damage aren't running off the same systems.
The most critical bug they're gonna be fixing with this TU is going to be the one where Reach can't recognize more than 2 Marketplace items in it's directory. It's going to be kind of impossible to release any more DLC for it without fixing that.
Again I still am reserving what I think will be in this TU because of one major thing that still hasnt been talked about yet. The armor that was shown on the IGN picture. 343i said they would talk about that later and if that is with the TU or DLC those armor types would have to be added into the .maps wouldnt they? I would like an explanation for that to be added because we know they are going to talk about that at a later date. Also there are no traces of that armor anywhere on Reach, modders would have found it long ago.FyreWulff said:
*better not hear about how it will be DLC maps only for the new armor*
Also this.Nutter said:
The only way to have the new armor would be to not only re-ship every single firefight and multiplayer .map, but you'd also have to ship every campaign map and mainmenu.map too (so that you could even see it in the armory)
The only way that new armor is possible is either it's encrypted in all the exisiting .maps somehow, or it's somehow cleverly constructed out of existing assets present in every .map already.
Megalo and the Chess gametype did show us that there are armor pieces in the .maps that we can't use but are available to Megalo to spawn a biped with.
It had less spread than the sniper rifle at the same range after Halo 2's Big Patch. There's a reason it didn't come back for Halo 3 or Reach. Because it was broken.
The only way that new armor is possible is either it's encrypted in all the exisiting .maps somehow, or it's somehow cleverly constructed out of existing assets present in every .map already.
Megalo and the Chess gametype did show us that there are armor pieces in the .maps that we can't use but are available to Megalo to spawn a biped with.
Striker said:
It had less spread than the sniper rifle at the same range after Halo 2's Big Patch. There's a reason it didn't come back for Halo 3 or Reach. Because it was broken.
FyreWulff said:
A title update for Halo 2 changed the damage properties of grenades and the Brute Shot. I'm almost positive that Halo 2 also used the same .map and tag system that Halo 3 and Reach use. The update did not replace all the maps with new files. I believe the update just inserted a new bit of code to change the weapon attributes when the map is loaded into memory. Something that would be very possible with Reach.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Outside of MLG, you are a lunatic. =PTashi0106 said:
David "Mothafookin'" Ellis via Twatter said:
Oozer3993 said:
They were able to do that because the damage and spread properties of weapons are determined by the host. Which meant that if Halo 2 1.0 joined a Halo 2 1.5 session, the patch attributes were in effect for it too. Same with Halo 3 - if H3 1.0 joins a 1.1 session, it gets the simultaneous melee deaths and the melee physics bug doesn't occur.
What they could not change and still cannot change without breaking compatibility is anything like Rate of Fire and Bloom. These are client side functionality and would require both the client and the host to have the same patch to even work together. Not only that, but changing these items (and shipping new .maps) would make every content item pre-TU no longer compatible post-TU. Every film and map variant would be useless overnight. They're not going to throw out millions of community content items over that now, after Halo 3 didn't do it.
And if 343 actually does make the move to break inter-version compatibility, that will be a big "Fuck You" to the LAN community and I'll be done with Reach because the DMR will become the Halo 1 Pistol 3.0.
lybertyboy
Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Please don't misunderstand that post. Wasn't directed at anyone in particular or even necessarily GAF for that matter.
I have trouble grasping technicals details myself often enough. Fortunately I work with some very smart people who constantly educate me.
I have trouble grasping technicals details myself often enough. Fortunately I work with some very smart people who constantly educate me.
I don't have any knowledge of the network used to push out updates or what is possible to do with them, but I'm quite sure that values like damage and all other weapon, vehicle, and character attributes were stored in shared.map, and that was pretty much vital in getting mods working together in Halo 2, and from there it is pushed out through the host. I don't know how any of that pertains to Reach or anything else that has changed. I hardly touched modding in H2 so I'm not even sure this is correct. (and no I am not referring to those kids who modded matchmaking in any of this)FyreWulff said:
MrBig said:
Yeah, but it's more feasible to ship shared.map changes than other ones. Especially if you make changes that won't cause desync errors.
Oh man, that reminds me how Bungie had to patch and re-ship mainmenu.map to even get Halo 2 to recognize new DLC, because Halo 2 Xbox doesn't automatically check for and add new maps to the map list, requiring a new TU each time DLC came out.
In some respects that helped them out as they had an excuse to include new security updates with each DLC TU.
Well to be honest I dont think there is a person here who understands 100% of the tech that goes into Reach (myself included obviously lol)lybertyboy said:Please don't misunderstand that post. Wasn't directed at anyone in particular or even necessarily GAF for that matter.
I have trouble grasping technicals details myself often enough. Fortunately I work with some very smart people who constantly educate me.
Thats why i just never assume what can be done with games or not because most of the time I am terribly terribly wrong or horribly misinformed when I say "x can't happen because of this or that"
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Remove suck, add fun. Call it a day.
Dani said:
Here are the things I think are worse than Bloom in Halo Reach
Loadouts featuring Armor Lock, Camo and Evade
Matchmaking and host selection
Grenades
Radar
The ability to no scope with ease.
Melee system
Loadouts that's feature plasma grenades from the start.
J-Roderton
Member
FyreWulff said:
Wow. I could imagine.
I was sort of joking last night about what I'd like to see updated, and it was a short list: the gunplay, the grenades, the melee system and the base player traits. To be more specific:Tashi0106 said:
Allow melee to pass through shields, or have an option to make it so.
Grenade nerf.
Not sure how much can be done with bloom, etc, but I'd like to see the DMR get a 2x scope, rather than 3x.
Player inertia restored to the way it was in previous games. I hate feeling like I can't change direction when a grenade is tossed in the direction I'm moving.
Things around playlist management would be the removal of Evade and camo from all non-Elite players and some big time clean up in BTB, such as Territories on Spire. I'm sure everyone has their own long list.
The big thing is I'd like to see more attention paid to the settings on a per-map basis within a playlist, rather than a single game type and load out set applied to all of them. Details matter, and the details are where the past playlist approach fell short.
Also, Firefight needs a lot more tweaks. These are much easier to make than MP, so I hope they continue to evolve.