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[The Librarian]

I've only skimmed this argument over hardcore vs Halo's more casual audience. From my perspective, the casual majority of Halo doesn't really care about the changes made to gameplay (like from Halo 3 to Reach). However, most of the core fans aren't pleased at all with the changes. In this particular area, when it comes to stuff like bloom and AAs (how they should be removed for Halo 4), I think it would be more prudent to listen to the core fans for the most part.

Edit: Also, to add, Louis Wu, Nutter, and several others brought up good points over the last page and a half.

But what I said above is my feelings on the whole thing.

 

[Plywood]

Maybe this will help:

Now I see it to, fuuuuu

Also is Forge-GAF dead? Post before mine was nine days ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29284623#post29284623

 

[feel]

I've only skimmed this argument over hardcore vs Halo's more casual audience. From my perspective, the casual majority of Halo doesn't really care for the changes made to gameplay (like from Halo 3 to Reach). However, most of the core fans aren't pleased at all with the changes. In this particular area, when it comes to stuff like bloom and AAs (how they should be removed for Halo 4), I think it would be more prudent to listen to the core fans.

THIS

Other lines of thinking are absurd IMO. Numbers and statistics of what is popular and most used are irrelevant because the casuals just don't care, they will just boot the game and play whatever seems more appealing on the list, and exploit any easy tactic available. Oh, casuals are flocking to the places/AAs where it's easier to get kills, fly everywhere and activate invincibility?? Well no shit!!!

The temporary casuals will still be having a blast playing what the old fans like as long as it's fun and accessible at its core. Stop focusing on what the casuals like and listen to what the long term fans do not like.

 

[Gabotron ES]

I don't think that gives people enough credit. The difference is not in the name, it's in the content. One is tailored for the masses, and one a bit more hardcore, and the populations represent accordingly.

GAF is a more hardcore community, and so...


Exactly. HaloGAF, generally speaking, does not represent the player base, but the hardcore player base.

BIG TEAM BATTLE 5,165 Players

INVASION 2,795 Players

TEAM SWAT 5,157 Players

LIVING DEAD 12,281 Players

GRIFBALL 2,117 Players


The real fringe playlists are:

MLG 641 Players

TEAM OBJECTIVE 418 Players

FIREFIGHT LIMITED 314 Players

SQUAD SLAYER 1,281 Players

We are hardcore. Hardcore are the fringe.

I'm seriously shocked right now.

 

[Falagard]

THIS

Other lines of thinking are absurd IMO. Numbers and statistics of what is popular and most used are irrelevant because the casuals just don't care, they will just boot the game and play whatever seems more appealing on the list, and exploit any easy tactic available. Oh, casuals are flocking to the places/AAs where it's easier to get kills, fly everywhere and activate invincibility?? Well no shit!!!

The temporary casuals will still be having a blast playing what the old fans like as long as it's fun and accessible at its core. Stop focusing on what the casuals like and listen to what the long term fans do not like.

Quote for troof.

 

[Havok]

I've only skimmed this argument over hardcore vs Halo's more casual audience. From my perspective, the casual majority of Halo doesn't really care for the changes made to gameplay

A more appropriate statement would be "the casual majority of Halo doesn't really care about the changes made to gameplay."

They can still spray their ARs all day long, except now they can jetpack and be invincible.

 

[The Librarian]

A more appropriate statement would be "casual majority of Halo doesn't really care about the changes made to gameplay".

They can still spray their ARs all day long, except now they can jetpack and be invincible.

Yeah, that's what I meant to say. Will edit post. Typo.

 

[senador]

THIS

Other lines of thinking are absurd IMO. Numbers and statistics of what is popular and most used are irrelevant because the casuals just don't care, they will just boot the game and play whatever seems more appealing on the list, and exploit any easy tactic available. Oh, casuals are flocking to the places/AAs where it's easier to get kills, fly everywhere and activate invincibility?? Well no shit!!! Give them a win button and they will mash it into infinity even if it's killing puppies and kittens in the other side of the world.

The temporary casuals will still be having a blast playing what the old fans like as long as it's fun and accessible at its core. Stop focusing on what the casuals like and listen to what the long term fans do not like.

I think its absurd to not think Bungie/343 shouldn't take anyone who plays their games into consideration. If they only did what the hardcores want, I would guess numbers would drop. I know many people who came to Reach because of what it offered. These are the same people who left Halo 3 for CoD4/MW2, but have stuck with Reach. They've even came back after trying Black Ops.

You guys are silly if you think casuals don't care what happens in the game. They may not care in the same way you and I care, but they care. They aren't just total idiots, though we make think so based off of how they play.

I'm with you in wanting a more hardcore experience, but casuals have to be taken into account too. Its fact. It is what it is.*

Sorry, I feel like I am on the same side of the fence as you guys, but as a web developer dealing with usability, and wanting to get into games, I realize you kinda have to consider the casuals a great deal.

I think if many of you started making games, you'd piss off many people and be in for a rude awakening.

*Again, I think a balance can be struck, but to say casuals don't care or don't matter is absurd IMO.

I'm seriously shocked right now.

Why? Gamers these days don't seem to want a challenge. They seem to want to pop the disc in and mindlessly kill shit.

 

[Reagan's BR]

I think a few people here have summed up my sentiments from the last page: Cater to the hardcore because casuals will play regardless.

 

[The Librarian]

I think a few people here have summed up my sentiments from the last page: Cater to the hardcore because casuals will play regardless.

But I also think its important to keep in mind why casual players play Halo. At least so that you don't drift too far off in one direction. If all playlists had DMR starts, new players might be turned off because they wouldn't be able to use it effectively.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

But I also think its important to keep in mind why casual players play Halo. At least so that you don't drift too far off in one direction. If all playlists had DMR starts, new players might be turned off because they wouldn't be able to use it effectively.

As with all things it comes down to something from 30 Rock.

If you are playing Halo competitively and there is bloom: That's a Dealbreaker Ladies.

If you are playing Halo casually and you can't move 5 feet off spawn without being DMR'd to death: That's a Dealbreaker Ladies.

I think it's less about catering and more about avoiding gameplay traps like Armor Lock and random-bloom-headshots.

 

[Trasher]

Why? Gamers these days don't seem to want a challenge. They seem to want to pop the disc in and mindlessly kill shit.

Most people forget how hard games used to be on the NES and such. Those were the days.

I think a few people here have summed up my sentiments from the last page: Cater to the hardcore because casuals will play regardless.

Yup. But let those casuals have their Infection playlist if they want. As long as the playlists are adjusted properly in order to keep the hardcores around, it will only help the game's longevity.

 

[squidhands]

Now I see it to, fuuuuu

Also is Forge-GAF dead? Post before mine was nine days ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29284623#post29284623

Cryo-sleep, dude. I have awoken.

 

[feel]

I think its absurd to not think Bungie/343 shouldn't take anyone who plays their games into consideration. If they only did what the hardcores want, I would guess numbers would drop. I know many people who came to Reach because of what it offered. These are the same people who left Halo 3 for CoD4/MW2, but have stuck with Reach. They've even come back from Black Ops.

You guys are silly if you think casuals don't care what happens in the game. They may not care in the same way you and I care, but they care. They aren't just total idiots, though we make think so based off of how they play.

I'm with you in wanting a more hardcore experience, but casuals have to be taken into account too. Its fact. It is what it is.*

Sorry, I feel like I am on the same side of the fence as you guys, but as a web developer dealing with usability, and wanting to get into games, I realize you kinda have to consider the casuals a great deal.

I think if many of you started making games, you'd piss off many people and be in for a rude awakening.

*Again, I think a balance can be struck, but to say casuals don't care or don't matter is absurd IMO.




Why? Gamers these days don't seem to want a challenge. They seem to want to pop the disc in and mindlessly kill shit.

Of course, but I meant focusing on them while alienating the fans of how Halo used to be all these years.

 

[Steelyuhas]

You don't have to put things like Armor Lock in the game to "cater to casuals". If you make a good, competitively fair game that is fun to play people will play it, regardless of how casual or hardcore they are. Adding stupid shit to games doesn't magically make it more appealing to a casual user.

 

[Fathead]

As with all things it comes down to something from 30 Rock.

If you are playing Halo competitively and there is bloom: That's a Dealbreaker Ladies.

If you are playing Halo casually and you can't move 5 feet off spawn without being DMR'd to death: That's a Dealbreaker Ladies.

I think it's less about catering and more about avoiding gameplay traps like Armor Lock and random-bloom-headshots.

Exactly.

 

[The Librarian]

As with all things it comes down to something from 30 Rock.

If you are playing Halo competitively and there is bloom: That's a Dealbreaker Ladies.

If you are playing Halo casually and you can't move 5 feet off spawn without being DMR'd to death: That's a Dealbreaker Ladies.

I think it's less about catering and more about avoiding gameplay traps like Armor Lock and random-bloom-headshots.

The Roche! Glad to see a post from you. Thought you disappeared. And good point.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Just a little fuel for the fire:

Why do so many people play Living Dead? Could it be that it's one of the only playlists where bloom and armor lock don't matter?

It's the reason why my friends enjoy it in Reach. These are people who've played Halo since the very first day -- people I would consider as hardcore as anyone else. They won't jump into different playlists unless I make them because the basic mechanics of Reach annoy them, but they insist on playing the newest Halo game.

 

[Ramirez]

I seriously do not understand Living Deads popularity, most games are exploited by people going to some obscure location and picking people off before they even get within 20 feet of you. It has to be for credit/commendation farming or something, but if these guys really just want to play zombie games, then their brain might explode if they actually played a good one like L4D.

Did anyone ever doubt that the game caters to the lowest common denominator? Doesn't make it any less frustrating, but as people have said, these people are so stupid that they would play regardless of whatever the game brought to the table, so I don't see any harm in listening to the hardcore sometimes.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Just a little fuel for the fire:

Why do so many people play Living Dead? Could it be that it's one of the only playlists where bloom and armor lock don't matter?

It's the reason why my friends enjoy it in Reach. These are people who've played Halo since the very first day -- people I would consider as hardcore as anyone else. They won't jump into other playlists unless I make them because the basic mechanics of Reach annoy them, but they insist on playing the newest Halo game.

Also kill times. Let's face it, COD is console shooters in the last five years, and you know what you can do in COD, kill people quickly. Most people I know that I would firmly consider "casual" shooter players don't like Halo very much because it "takes forever to kill people". I know people that ONLY play SWAT because of this, and I assume the same is true with Living Dead. Compared to games like COD, Halo is hard. You have to master several different gameplay elements and be able to pull them off simultaneously. I think that playlists such as Living Dead and SWAT are popular because they are not like Halo, they are not difficult.

 

[Tunavi]

Just a little fuel for the fire:

Why do so many people play Living Dead? Could it be that it's one of the only playlists where bloom and armor lock don't matter?

It's the reason why my friends enjoy it in Reach. These are people who've played Halo since the very first day -- people I would consider as hardcore as anyone else. They won't jump into different playlists unless I make them because the basic mechanics of Reach annoy them, but they insist on playing the newest Halo game.

Its popular because it's outrageously easy to dominate.

 

[Plywood]

Cryo-sleep, dude. I have awoken.

 

[The Librarian]

Its popular because it's outrageously easy to dominate.

Just like Call of Duty!

 

[Sai-kun]

Armor Lock and Bloom, definitely a dealbreaker.

 

[Trasher]

I seriously do not understand Living Deads popularity, most games are exploited by people going to some obscure location and picking people off before they even get within 20 feet of you. It has to be for credit/commendation farming or something, but if these guys really just want to play zombie games, then their brain might explode if they actually played a good one like L4D.

Did anyone ever doubt that the game caters to the lowest common denominator? Doesn't make it any less frustrating, but as people have said, these people are so stupid that they would play regardless of whatever the game brought to the table, so I don't see any harm in listening to the hardcore sometimes.

Hell yes, brother!

 

[Tunavi]

we just need a hardcore playlist. If the casuals can have their playlists, why can't we?

come on frankie. do it

edit: I know there is mlg, but they only use 2 default maps from the game.

 

[Trasher]

we just need a hardcore playlist. If the casuals can have their playlists, why can't we?

come on frankie. do it

*waits for the posts about MLG*

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Also kill times. Let's face it, COD is console shooters in the last five years, and you know what you can do in COD, kill people quickly. Most people I know that I would firmly consider "casual" shooter players don't like Halo very much because it "takes forever to kill people". I know people that ONLY play SWAT because of this, and I assume the same is true with Living Dead. Compared to games like COD, Halo is hard. You have to master several different gameplay elements and be able to pull them off simultaneously. I think that playlists such as Living Dead and SWAT are popular because they are not like Halo, they are not difficult.

To defend my friends a little, they absolutely hate CoD. They traded in their copies of Modern Warfare and haven't looked back.

 

[Ramirez]

Another thing to think about, just because people pick AL, Jetpack, Evade, etc. doesn't mean they like it, and if Bungie was using that info to determine what AA placements they use, then it is flawed. I pick evade 100% of the time in TO, but I hate evade and want it removed from the game completely, I pick it because if I don't, I feel like I'm putting myself at a disadvantage. Same thing in the TS playlist, I usually always go Jetpack, for the simple fact that I know I can troll the heck out of people and break the map, I still hate it though, but I'm not going to be rained down upon by the other team and not return the favor.

As I said yesterday, it's similar to Tiburon citing that GameFlow (a system that automatically picked your plays in Madden and was on by default) was a huge success. Well no crap something is a huge success when you have to put up with it. The hardcore hated GF, and I doubt all the casuals liked it as well, but when something is forced down your throat you really have no choice but to participate in the shenanigans whether you like it or not.

Not that it really changes anything, but it is something to think about/consider...

I would consider Squad Slayer a playlist for the hardcore, or as close as you're going to get that's not named MLG anyways. Jetpack/Camo are super annoying, but I don't think we'll ever get a playlist with what most of you want, not until CEA anyways.

 

[Steelyuhas]

To defend my friends a little, they absolutely hate CoD. They traded in their copies of Modern Warfare and haven't looked back.

Just using COD as an example of what the majority like in their shooter these days.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I hear this a lot from folks who think they're hardcore because they've been around for a long time. "We're responsible for the success of your game!"

This is bullshit. The hardcore (for EVERY Halo title) is a tiny subset. It's ALWAYS a tiny subset. The VAST majority of Halo players has ALWAYS been more casual than that. And surprise, surprise... lots of 'em come back game after game, even though they're not playing every night! (Or, even bigger surprise, maybe they ARE playing every night - but they're not participating in any online communities, they don't worry about what weapons are on each map, they might not even know the name of the company that makes the game. They just play.)

They're also the ones who LEAVE once a community settles down to 'hardcore mode'. (Look at Halo PC. There's still a community playing that, though it's tiny compared to the number playing, say, Reach. But they're all playing the same thing - Slayer or CTF on Blood Gulch. That's what the 'hardcore' thinks Halo PC multiplayer boils down to - and that's what casuals get bored of.)

If game companies catered specifically to their hardcore fans to the exclusion of everyone else, they'd be out of business. It's really that simple.

You talk about the most vocal ones being the most passionate - but they're also the ones who like what they like. And they don't want it to change. But that's NOT how you sell more games! So while you don't want to piss those people off too much (because they ARE vocal) - you also don't want to focus exclusively on them, because if they had their way, they'd still be playing what made them fall in love in the first place. (Face it - what the hardcore would love more than anything is if someone put in the time and effort to remove the cheating from Halo 2, right? Because that was the best multiplayer ever, right? But the rest of us - and no, I don't count myself among the 'hardcore' in this context, even though I've been in this community longer than almost ALL of you - we'd be bored shitless if that's all Bungie/343 did. And we'd find some other game company to buy stuff from.)

Game companies walk a really fine line when they have a successful title. They have to find a way to make a replacement that's BETTER than what they just did (to convince people to buy more from them) but they have to also make sure they keep the stuff that was great in the first place (because that's what people are now EXPECTING from the franchise). And sometimes, those aren't compatible goals. For a lot of GAFers, Reach went too far with the changes - the 'better' became worse.

But for other people (me, for example), Reach's gameplay is MORE fun than what came before it - at least if you judge by how much time I'm putting into it. And no, it's not because of Armor Lock, or Evade, or ARs, or any of that - I use Sprint 95% of the time, and my tool of destruction is the DMR. But I can LIVE with all that stuff that makes you guys crazy - and that's the difference, I think.

I'm getting away from the original point - the original point is that the hardcore are NOT responsible for the success of the game - by the simple fact that they're a minority. Most copies are bought by people who don't care about most of what you care about. Also, the idea of allowing your 'hardcore' fans decide the direction of your game development is a bad one, from a business standpoint. You can certainly let them INFLUENCE you - but letting them run the ship would lead to ending up on the shoals.

I havent been following the entire debate but just to be clear, as much as I have played Halo since the beginning I have generally liked the changed brought about by each new iteration.

So my problems with Reach dont stem from the fact that Reach is too 'different', its from the fact that the new stuff honestly isnt that good.

hopefully Halo 4 will be be a big step in a direction im more fond of. Im not hating the fact that theres new stuff, im hating that the new stuff isnt very good.

For the record im probably in the minority that actually enjoyed what equipment could bring to the table when it was used correctly so im certainly not bitching about the fact that the purity is being lost lol.

 

[senador]

Of course, but I meant focusing on them while alienating the fans of how Halo used to be all these years.

I'll agree with that. I just hope 343 can strike the balance of keeping the hardcore group pleased, but also keeping it fresh/fun/inviting for new and less serious players.

 

[GhaleonEB]

THIS

Other lines of thinking are absurd IMO. Numbers and statistics of what is popular and most used are irrelevant because the casuals just don't care, they will just boot the game and play whatever seems more appealing on the list, and exploit any easy tactic available. Oh, casuals are flocking to the places/AAs where it's easier to get kills, fly everywhere and activate invincibility?? Well no shit!!!

The temporary casuals will still be having a blast playing what the old fans like as long as it's fun and accessible at its core. Stop focusing on what the casuals like and listen to what the long term fans do not like.

First, you missed the point entirely behind my citing the playlist populations.

Second, I find the phrase "temporary casuals" to be odd. As Wu said, most Halo players are not on forums, but they do come back to each game in the series. And as the playlist data makes clear, they're the bulk of the playing population (and thus, bulk of paying customers). They need to be paid attention to.

In a german forum someone said, that the Banshee is too weak. lol.

Check your PMs.

 

[Hypertrooper]

In a german forum someone said, that the Banshee is too weak. lol.

 

[Ramirez]

For the record im probably in the minority that actually enjoyed what equipment could bring to the table when it was used correctly so im certainly not bitching about the fact that the purity is being lost lol.

I liked equipment much more than AA's, I wouldn't mind seeing that idea tweaked and brought back. The Power Drainer/Grav Lift were awesome, I still remember dropping a GL one time in front of the Highground gate on the base side, grabbing the flag and deploying it and jumping over the closed gate for the cap, haha. The Bubble Shield needed a damage threshold like the Drop Shield, and I dunno what you could do to make the Regenerator more balanced. Stuff like the radar jammer and flare would have been brilliant if it didn't affect you as well, that made them pretty useless, and I really never understood the line of thought that all of the equipment had to affect you as well as the enemy. I get it for the Power Drainer, but for the Flare/RJ, not so much.

 

[Havok]

Just a little fuel for the fire:

Why do so many people play Living Dead? Could it be that it's one of the only playlists where bloom and armor lock don't matter?

It's the reason why my friends enjoy it in Reach. These are people who've played Halo since the very first day -- people I would consider as hardcore as anyone else. They won't jump into different playlists unless I make them because the basic mechanics of Reach annoy them, but they insist on playing the newest Halo game.

Living Dead is popular because it lets kids dong on people when they're the human team. That's why people pick Pinnacle - the base is nearly impenetrable with an on-host human with a shotgun, and they can rack up the kills round after round because the game picks teams in a really bizarre way.

Stuff like the radar jammer and flare would have been brilliant if it didn't affect you as well, that made them pretty useless, and I really never understood the line of thought that all of the equipment had to affect you as well as the enemy.

These two had a lot of potential that was unfortunately wasted because of the physics bug associated with them. I like the idea of abilities that affect tertiary systems like radar. Stuff like Regen and Bubble Shields (especially Regen) I'm not so friendly towards, just because I feel like having an invincibility button is a bad idea. The Power Drainer could have been more interesting if it didn't have the crazy radius it did combined with a near-instant drain effect. Its effect on vehicle combat was what I most enjoyed about it, to be honest.

 

[leonfaria04]

Halo 4
Halo 4 special edition
Halo 4 legendary edition
Halo 4 Hardcore edition

problem solved... LOL

Or

Call of duty MW 3 now with armor lock and jetpack lololololol

 

[senador]

Another thing to think about, just because people pick AL, Jetpack, Evade, etc. doesn't mean they like it, and if Bungie was using that info to determine what AA placements they use, then it is flawed. I pick evade 100% of the time in TO, but I hate evade and want it removed from the game completely, I pick it because if I don't, I feel like I'm putting myself at a disadvantage. Same thing in the TS playlist, I usually always go Jetpack, for the simple fact that I know I can troll the heck out of people and break the map, I still hate it though, but I'm not going to be rained down upon by the other team and not return the favor.

As I said yesterday, it's similar to Tiburon citing that GameFlow (a system that automatically picked your plays in Madden and was on by default) was a huge success. Well no crap something is a huge success when you have to put up with it. The hardcore hated GF, and I doubt all the casuals liked it as well, but when something is forced down your throat you really have no choice but to participate in the shenanigans whether you like it or not.

Not that it really changes anything, but it is something to think about/consider...

I would consider Squad Slayer a playlist for the hardcore, or as close as you're going to get that's not named MLG anyways. Jetpack/Camo are super annoying, but I don't think we'll ever get a playlist with what most of you want, not until CEA anyways.

Yup. I have seen many people choose AL or Jet Pack just to combat other players doing it. If you don't go buy the numbers though, you enter a fuzzy area. Maybe in game polls would be a good thing.


I know some of you think this is all depressing discussion, but I think its pretty awesome. Its an actual discussion instead of just "X sucks!", and we are getting more into the theory of things.

 

[feel]

we just need a hardcore playlist. If the casuals can have their playlists, why can't we?

come on frankie. do it

edit: I know there is mlg, but they only use 2 default maps from the game.

Hardcore in the context of the current discussion refers to the fanbase who has been playing Halo for many years multiple times per week and actually logs in to an online forum to argue about the future of the franchise. Reach has plenty of playlists that appeal to hardcore in the other context, as long as they enjoy Reach as it is (with the bloom, inertia, color/blur/gritty filter, etc).

 

[Havok]

Yup. I have seen many people choose AL or Jet Pack just to combat other players doing it. If you don't go buy the numbers though, you enter a fuzzy area. Maybe in game polls would be a good thing.


I know some of you think this is all depressing discussion, but I think its pretty awesome. Its an actual discussion instead of just "X sucks!", and we are getting more into the theory of things.

I think even at that point, you wouldn't be able to separate the people that love something because its overpowered and they use it all the time from the people that are concerned about an item/ability's effect on the game as a whole. There's no winning move, really. And then you have the people who are totally uninformed on how something actually works because they've never seen any precedent. Recently, bnet had a poll that asked which game was the hardest on legendary, and Reach was far and away the lead, above even Halo 2, which definitely indicates a recency bias (which is to be expected, but there's no real way to counter it).

Also, I agree that this discussion is healthy for a community of a game. There's a lot of bitching all over the internet, but very little clarification and explanation for it. People dislike a lot of things, I think it's important to keep in mind that reasons exist for it, no matter how invalid our demographic thinks they are.

 

[Tunavi]

Another thing to think about, just because people pick AL, Jetpack, Evade, etc. doesn't mean they like it, and if Bungie was using that info to determine what AA placements they use, then it is flawed. I pick evade 100% of the time in TO, but I hate evade and want it removed from the game completely, I pick it because if I don't, I feel like I'm putting myself at a disadvantage. Same thing in the TS playlist, I usually always go Jetpack, for the simple fact that I know I can troll the heck out of people and break the map, I still hate it though, but I'm not going to be rained down upon by the other team and not return the favor.

I would consider Squad Slayer a playlist for the hardcore, or as close as you're going to get that's not named MLG anyways. Jetpack/Camo are super annoying, but I don't think we'll ever get a playlist with what most of you want, not until CEA anyways.

I know exactly what you mean. I was talking with a guy who is %15 Onyx, he says he only uses the jetpack because its so overpowered and breaks every map in the game.
And the Radar Jammer of Active Camo is such an obnoxiously cheap tactic, I rage everytime I see my radar get lit up like that. I still don't understand why squad isn't sprint only.

Team Classic was a great idea. However, I hate forge maps, and I hate grenades/assault rifle even more, which were totally buffed by the damage modifier.

 

[leonfaria04]

Now seriously, 343 must find the perfect balance between the casuals and hardcore players, they can do it with a nice playlist...

im gonna put this on my reach emblem as a sign of support

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I liked equipment much more than AA's, I wouldn't mind seeing that idea tweaked and brought back. The Power Drainer/Grav Lift were awesome, I still remember dropping a GL one time in front of the Highground gate on the base side, grabbing the flag and deploying it and jumping over the closed gate for the cap, haha. The Bubble Shield needed a damage threshold like the Drop Shield, and I dunno what you could do to make the Regenerator more balanced. Stuff like the radar jammer and flare would have been brilliant if it didn't affect you as well, that made them pretty useless, and I really never understood the line of thought that all of the equipment had to affect you as well as the enemy. I get it for the Power Drainer, but for the Flare/RJ, not so much.

I honestly didnt expect that post coming from you! Its pretty clear that the 'hardcore' crowd can deal with change, but its also pretty clear that the hardcore crowd can see how things work best, to be fair we have the benefit of hindsite, but its frustating when bad gameplay mechanics can ruin an entire experience and we feel as though its a few tweaks away from being good. So really I think the hardcore players would embrace change if change brought something good to the table.

Wu, as much as I respect your opinion I just dont think the issue is as clear cut as your post a few pages back made it seem.

 

[Ramirez]

I honestly didnt expect that post coming from you! Its pretty clear that the 'hardcore' crowd can deal with change, but its also pretty clear that the hardcore crowd can see how things work best, to be fair we have the benefit of hindsite, but its frustating when bad gameplay mechanics can ruin an entire experience and we feel as though its a few tweaks away from being good. So really I think the hardcore players would embrace change if change brought something good to the table.

Wu, as much as I respect your opinion I just dont think the issue is as clear cut as your post a few pages back made it seem.

I forgot one of the equipment pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie6j-8UEI8U

 

[Homeboyd]

Was going through some of the FAQ w/ Ferrex and remembered this:

Posted by: Homeboyd903
You mentioned wanting to have weather effects but didnt have time to add them:

For future DLC purposes, is it possible to offer new Forge Worlds built in different environments with new tools (like weather effects) added?

Ferrex:
It's possible. The DLC guys on H3 added some sweet new stuff like the screen filters and lights, and we hadn't been planning on those.

No guarantee that it'll happen, though.

343

Wonder how much it would effect screen performance (didn't know much about these things back then.) Some interesting stuff in there.

 

[Hey You]

Those playlists are tge easiest ones to get credits for doing nothing. Also is Halo an fps or zombie game or hammer football game. Even if they wont play the other playlists how is having people boost in those playlists benefiting the rest of Reach. Yeah i realize taking them out wont neccessary benefit Reach either but hey there are way too many playlists. If people really want to play living dead they need to buy left 4 dead.

Left 4 Dead zombies and Reach's Infection is not the same.

You may not enjoy zombies, but I do and so do thousands other players. I don't play Living Dead for the credits, I play it for fun. If I wanted to earn massive amounts of credits, I would play firefight all day long.

Do you really care how people are earning credits,how much they've earned or what rank?

If not, then let everyone play what they want. If so, why?

The harm done by these playlists was more or less done during development. Having resources work on things outside of the core Halo gameplay potentially detracts from using resources for core aspects like having more campaign levels, more MP maps, or having a refined FF Versus. It comes down to trying to do too much and thus diluting portions of the product. Granted those examples may not be realistic trade-offs, but you get the idea. It saddens me that no Halo game by Bungie was ever allowed to be polished to completion.

The Living Dead playlist wasn't there at launch, the Grifball playlist wasn't there at launch. Of course Bungie was going to create an infection gametype. I doubt if they didn't make a Infection gametype, everything else would be better.

Having what, 3 straight up slayer playlists doesn't "dilute" the playlists, but having different playlists for different gametypes does?

 

[Striker]

Wiping out the bubble shield and regen and keeping things like a grav lift or radar jammer just means they need to somehow implement a radar jammer and jump boost powerup in light of the overshield and camo. They can play two max on the map similar to how OS/Camo were done before, but apply these per map basis. Or at least that's how I would consider things. Otherwise just remove all the gimmicks and just have our classic OS/Camo items.

 

[Ramirez]

Left 4 Dead zombies and Reach's Infection is not the same.

You may not enjoy zombies, but I do and so do thousands other players. I don't play Living Dead for the credits, I play it for fun. If I wanted to earn massive amounts of credits, I would play firefight all day long.

Do you really care how people are earning credits,how much they've earned or what rank?

If not, then let everyone play what they want. If so, why?

Honest question, what is so fun about LD?

Wiping out the bubble shield and regen and keeping things like a grav lift or radar jammer just means they need to somehow implement a radar jammer and jump boost powerup in light of the overshield and camo. They can play two max on the map similar to how OS/Camo were done before, but apply these per map basis. Or at least that's how I would consider things. Otherwise just remove all the gimmicks and just have our classic OS/Camo items.

Yup, design the maps around the abilities and place them like powerups (1 or 2 max), with powerup respawn times, equipment respawned way too fast.

I don't think anyone is opposed to abilities in general, it's just the way they were implemented in Reach is terrible.

 

[Slightly Live]

Was going through some of the Wonder how much it would effect screen performance (didn't know much about these things back then.) Some interesting stuff in there.

Play any level with rain. Notice the frame rate. Be disappointed.

 

[The Librarian]

Wiping out the bubble shield and regen and keeping things like a grav lift or radar jammer just means they need to somehow implement a radar jammer and jump boost powerup in light of the overshield and camo. They can play two max on the map similar to how OS/Camo were done before, but apply these per map basis. Or at least that's how I would consider things. Otherwise just remove all the gimmicks and just have our classic OS/Camo items.

What makes the bubble shield and regenerator gimmicks?