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[WJD]

I'm jonesing for some Reach and haven't played in a while, nor do I have the new maps. What's the situation on playlists/maps I need?

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm jonesing for some Reach and haven't played in a while, nor do I have the new maps. What's the situation on playlists/maps I need?

Only two playlists require DLC: Premium Battle and Premium Slayer (and those require both DLC packs). They're optional in all other playlists.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Kind of want to see Kyle & Wu open a business together.

It's obvious to me that ye're both mostly right. I do certainly agree with Wu that the ship has somewhat sailed. Even this TU & H:CEA won't really change the population in the long term.

I do wonder if H4 has always been intended to come out in 2012. 4 years of continued yearly releases...

“I will say I think one Halo game every three years, our old cadence, is probably not frequent enough.” – Microsoft Corporate VP Phil Spencer

Source

 

[WJD]

Only two playlists require DLC: Premium Battle and Premium Slayer (and those require both DLC packs). They're optional in all other playlists.

Cool, thanks.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I hear this a lot from folks who think they're hardcore because they've been around for a long time. "We're responsible for the success of your game!"

This is bullshit. The hardcore (for EVERY Halo title) is a tiny subset. It's ALWAYS a tiny subset. The VAST majority of Halo players has ALWAYS been more casual than that. And surprise, surprise... lots of 'em come back game after game, even though they're not playing every night! (Or, even bigger surprise, maybe they ARE playing every night - but they're not participating in any online communities, they don't worry about what weapons are on each map, they might not even know the name of the company that makes the game. They just play.)

They're also the ones who LEAVE once a community settles down to 'hardcore mode'. (Look at Halo PC. There's still a community playing that, though it's tiny compared to the number playing, say, Reach. But they're all playing the same thing - Slayer or CTF on Blood Gulch. That's what the 'hardcore' thinks Halo PC multiplayer boils down to - and that's what casuals get bored of.)

If game companies catered specifically to their hardcore fans to the exclusion of everyone else, they'd be out of business. It's really that simple.

You talk about the most vocal ones being the most passionate - but they're also the ones who like what they like. And they don't want it to change. But that's NOT how you sell more games! So while you don't want to piss those people off too much (because they ARE vocal) - you also don't want to focus exclusively on them, because if they had their way, they'd still be playing what made them fall in love in the first place. (Face it - what the hardcore would love more than anything is if someone put in the time and effort to remove the cheating from Halo 2, right? Because that was the best multiplayer ever, right? But the rest of us - and no, I don't count myself among the 'hardcore' in this context, even though I've been in this community longer than almost ALL of you - we'd be bored shitless if that's all Bungie/343 did. And we'd find some other game company to buy stuff from.)

Game companies walk a really fine line when they have a successful title. They have to find a way to make a replacement that's BETTER than what they just did (to convince people to buy more from them) but they have to also make sure they keep the stuff that was great in the first place (because that's what people are now EXPECTING from the franchise). And sometimes, those aren't compatible goals. For a lot of GAFers, Reach went too far with the changes - the 'better' became worse.

But for other people (me, for example), Reach's gameplay is MORE fun than what came before it - at least if you judge by how much time I'm putting into it. And no, it's not because of Armor Lock, or Evade, or ARs, or any of that - I use Sprint 95% of the time, and my tool of destruction is the DMR. But I can LIVE with all that stuff that makes you guys crazy - and that's the difference, I think.

I'm getting away from the original point - the original point is that the hardcore are NOT responsible for the success of the game - by the simple fact that they're a minority. Most copies are bought by people who don't care about most of what you care about. Also, the idea of allowing your 'hardcore' fans decide the direction of your game development is a bad one, from a business standpoint. You can certainly let them INFLUENCE you - but letting them run the ship would lead to ending up on the shoals.

Damn and he hits it out of the park. IT'S GOING IT'S GOING IT'S GONE!!!!

He's right on the money. I really can't add anything to it because this ends this debate.

My ire? lol - I spend more time here than anywhere but my own site. It's full of insightful discussion. (It's also full of bullshit - but I don't think there's anywhere on the internet that doesn't have that problem.)

I don't think Reach is bombing - I think three quarters of a million people every day put their disc into their 360 and play a game or two (or 20). Could it be MORE successful? Sure. Would removing bloom and armor lock magically bring another million people a day to the game? No way in hell.

Again I agree. Bloom and armor lock aren't the great devils that everyone here makes it out to be. That includes me. Would i love them gone? hell yes I would as I'm sure most of us would. However as said above we're in the minority.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

“I will say I think one Halo game every three years, our old cadence, is probably not frequent enough.” – Microsoft Corporate VP Phil Spencer

Source

Which is funny/interesting, as I wanted to express my dislike of the man after the OXM interview was posted in the thread yesterday.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Again I agree. Bloom and armor lock aren't the great devils that everyone here makes it out to be. That includes me. Would i love them gone? hell yes I would as I'm sure most of us would. However as said above we're in the minority.

There's often a schism between the conversation here and what actually gets played, which serves as a nice perspective check.

SQUAD SLAYER (no armor lock, Bungie-made maps only, streamlined Slayer options): 846 Players

TEAM SLAYER (community maps, Elite Slayer, armor lock galore): 5,422 Players

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I don't know how other people define hardcore, but for me hardcore just means more competitive, just to be clear.

I have to agree with the sentiment that the casuals are going to be playing the game no matter what, as Reach is an excellent case in point. They may play for a few weeks. They may play for a few years. But it seems like the bottom line in regard to casuals is that they are going to buy the game and be a lot more indifferent to what weapons and playlists are offered, regardless. If that is the case, then it could be a smarter choice from a business perspective to cater to the hardcore fans, since the feedback that the general public is going to hear is from the hardcore fans who are most passionate about the game.

It seems to me that the change in direction in the game is a result of the developers being more casual than before and their attempt at trying to make the game appealing to more than just the hardcore players. But like some have said, Reach seems to come out flat in many areas. I think this is the real question: are the people that are playing Reach a lot more than previous installments playing it more because of things that the hardcore fans dislike (AA's, bloom, etc.), or are they playing Reach more despite the shortcomings because of other changes such as incentives like credits, armor unlocks, daily/weekly challenges, and a better net-code?

 

[LunaticPuma]

There's often a schism between the conversation here and what actually gets played, which serves as a nice perspective check.

SQUAD SLAYER (no armor lock, Bungie-made maps only, streamlined Slayer options): 846 Players

TEAM SLAYER (community maps, Elite Slayer, armor lock galore): 5,422 Players

I don't think that's a very fair comparison. I bet if the playlist names were swapped, the majority would be swapped too. It's hard to say though since you're comparing 4v4 to 50 with 5v5 to 75. Team slayer should really have its name changed to community slayer since it's predominantly community maps now too. It's be interesting to see what would happen without a "Team Slayer" playlist.

Also, Reach warthog makes for a horrible driving experience. H3 hog was so much fun to drive. Reach hog is a flippy PoS. Also, Rocket Hog Race is another gametype which is too popular to not have it's own playlist.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

There's often a schism between the conversation here and what actually gets played, which serves as a nice perspective check.

SQUAD SLAYER (no armor lock, Bungie-made maps only, streamlined Slayer options): 846 Players

TEAM SLAYER (community maps, Elite Slayer, armor lock galore): 5,422 Players

Yup. Yet if Halogaf was as right as we think we are those numbers would easily be reversed.

 

[Tunavi]

Its funny that we're talking about how money affects how games are made right as NeoGAF cracks down with stricter policies because of advertising regulations and money.
Welcome to Reach America.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Yup. Yet if Halogaf was as right as we think we are those numbers would easily be reversed.

Honestly, I think the numbers currently are on the low-end. If the hardcore fans were happy with Reach right now, the Reach population would be double or triple what it is with casuals still making up the greatest percentage of the population. But there is no way to prove that. So I can only say that I think this would be the case. So basically, I"m saying people are playing Reach right now in spite of its shortcomings. I think Reach could have shattered records if it had been different.

 

[Tawpgun]

There's often a schism between the conversation here and what actually gets played, which serves as a nice perspective check.

SQUAD SLAYER (no armor lock, Bungie-made maps only, streamlined Slayer options): 846 Players

TEAM SLAYER (community maps, Elite Slayer, armor lock galore): 5,422 Players

Most of us play Squad whenever we want to play Slayer. Or Arena. Or the premiums. Or as of recently Objective.

Best damn playlists in the game. I'll put MLG there also, but not many of us play it.

BTB is terrible
So is invasion
Classic bombed because of terrible settings.
The rest are fringe playlists. Or just bad

 

[Reagan's BR]

I hear this a lot from folks who think they're hardcore because they've been around for a long time. "We're responsible for the success of your game!"

This is bullshit. The hardcore (for EVERY Halo title) is a tiny subset. It's ALWAYS a tiny subset. The VAST majority of Halo players has ALWAYS been more casual than that. And surprise, surprise... lots of 'em come back game after game, even though they're not playing every night! (Or, even bigger surprise, maybe they ARE playing every night - but they're not participating in any online communities, they don't worry about what weapons are on each map, they might not even know the name of the company that makes the game. They just play.)

They're also the ones who LEAVE once a community settles down to 'hardcore mode'. (Look at Halo PC. There's still a community playing that, though it's tiny compared to the number playing, say, Reach. But they're all playing the same thing - Slayer or CTF on Blood Gulch. That's what the 'hardcore' thinks Halo PC multiplayer boils down to - and that's what casuals get bored of.)

If game companies catered specifically to their hardcore fans to the exclusion of everyone else, they'd be out of business. It's really that simple.

You talk about the most vocal ones being the most passionate - but they're also the ones who like what they like. And they don't want it to change. But that's NOT how you sell more games! So while you don't want to piss those people off too much (because they ARE vocal) - you also don't want to focus exclusively on them, because if they had their way, they'd still be playing what made them fall in love in the first place. (Face it - what the hardcore would love more than anything is if someone put in the time and effort to remove the cheating from Halo 2, right? Because that was the best multiplayer ever, right? But the rest of us - and no, I don't count myself among the 'hardcore' in this context, even though I've been in this community longer than almost ALL of you - we'd be bored shitless if that's all Bungie/343 did. And we'd find some other game company to buy stuff from.)

Game companies walk a really fine line when they have a successful title. They have to find a way to make a replacement that's BETTER than what they just did (to convince people to buy more from them) but they have to also make sure they keep the stuff that was great in the first place (because that's what people are now EXPECTING from the franchise). And sometimes, those aren't compatible goals. For a lot of GAFers, Reach went too far with the changes - the 'better' became worse.

But for other people (me, for example), Reach's gameplay is MORE fun than what came before it - at least if you judge by how much time I'm putting into it. And no, it's not because of Armor Lock, or Evade, or ARs, or any of that - I use Sprint 95% of the time, and my tool of destruction is the DMR. But I can LIVE with all that stuff that makes you guys crazy - and that's the difference, I think.

I'm getting away from the original point - the original point is that the hardcore are NOT responsible for the success of the game - by the simple fact that they're a minority. Most copies are bought by people who don't care about most of what you care about. Also, the idea of allowing your 'hardcore' fans decide the direction of your game development is a bad one, from a business standpoint. You can certainly let them INFLUENCE you - but letting them run the ship would lead to ending up on the shoals.

I agree with you on a good bit of that. What I don't understand is this: A handful of hardcore Halo fans don't play reach anymore because of bloom, armor lock, evade, balance issues etc. Casual Halo players (the ones who have never griped about a mechanic in any Halo game) will still play the game if it has bloom or not. That sort of thing does not phase them. So what I want to know is why not satisfy the hardcore if it has no effect on casual players leaving? If bloom and AL were never included in Reach just as many casual players would play.


Fixing Reach to satisfy the hardcore will not magically make the online population go up over night. Would it slowly bring in more people? Normally I would say no, but CEA being around the corner could help bring more people in. Reach's population is what it is. The next opportunity to really draw a ton of people into the game is Halo 4. (Between solid but easily accessible gameplay and lots of hype Halo 4 has the potential to bring in a ton of new players. I think that is what made Halo 2 so popular, it was super hyped and the gameplay was simple enough for casuals to figure out quickly (no armor abilities, equipment, double beatdown deaths etc jsut straight forward combat) and the hardcore was able to take to it quickly as well, save for a few (anyone remember halo2sucks.com?)

COD for example to the casual gamer is this: No campaign, just online. All the casuals do is pick the most unbalanced gun (because they have witnessed its power in other matches), run into battle, get a kill or two, and die. The casual player does this over and over again. They don't care that the weapon they are using is unbalanced. They don't even realize that it is. The people who complain about that weapon are the hardcore. The casuals arent the people going carefully placing c4 and claymores they just go through the spawn get a kill or two die pattern over and over. I was talking to a friend who said he preferred COD to Reach because Reach took skill. He is very much a casual COD player. I thought about that for a second and realized what he was saying. COD's gameplay is simple, anyone can spawn get a kill die and repeat. Halo doesn't have that as much anymore. Armor Abilities make killing enemies different every time based on what AA they have. Perks in COD make very little difference in killing someone (they aren't invincible for a few moments, they can't fly through the air, roll out of the way, or go invisible). Granted Cod suffers a problem different from Halo. COD is all casuals, the hardcore players have been driven away by the horrible balance issues. If COD were to be balanced properly then the hardcore would be still as strong today as they were in COD 4. What I am saying is that in order to have game that can appeal to a big casual audience the gameplay must be simple enough that even the most brain dead person who just spawns gets a kill and dies can play, additionally that same simple gameplay must be balanced enough that the hardcore player can play competitively. That is where Halo 2 succeeded and where I hope Halo 4 can too.

Edit:

There's often a schism between the conversation here and what actually gets played, which serves as a nice perspective check.

SQUAD SLAYER (no armor lock, Bungie-made maps only, streamlined Slayer options): 846 Players

TEAM SLAYER (community maps, Elite Slayer, armor lock galore): 5,422 Players

With all that I just said, my thoughts being that the casuals will play regardless of AL or bloom being in or out, if tonight Team Slayer was removed and Squad Slayer was renamed to Team Slayer not one of those 5000 players would really notice, theyd just figure the game was updated and keep playing. To them its all about the name of the playlist. Most of them probably havent even tried Squad Slayer.

 

[MrBig]

All this bickering in here is really down-turning. All they have to do is set up one more playlist with gametypes and maps setups (both disc and forge) that the Hardcore wants. That way we can have something that we actually WANT to play and the casuals will not even have a change.
IW understands this (and I think Epic is doing this for Gears 3), why doesn't Bungie or 343? Please give us Team Tactical.

 

[Reagan's BR]

I'm not trying to bicker. My point is that with proper tuning the casuals and hardcore can coexist. Halo 2 really is the best example of this in the Halo series.

 

[Roddslayer]

But for other people (me, for example), Reach's gameplay is MORE fun than what came before it - at least if you judge by how much time I'm putting into it. And no, it's not because of Armor Lock, or Evade, or ARs, or any of that - I use Sprint 95% of the time, and my tool of destruction is the DMR. But I can LIVE with all that stuff that makes you guys crazy - and that's the difference, I think.

My thoughts exactly

 

[GhaleonEB]

I don't think that's a very fair comparison. I bet if the playlist names were swapped, the majority would be swapped too. It's hard to say though since you're comparing 4v4 to 50 with 5v5 to 75. Team slayer should really have its name changed to community slayer since it's predominantly community maps now too. It's be interesting to see what would happen without a "Team Slayer" playlist.

I don't think that gives people enough credit. The difference is not in the name, it's in the content. One is tailored for the masses, and one a bit more hardcore, and the populations represent accordingly.

GAF is a more hardcore community, and so...

Most of us play Squad whenever we want to play Slayer. Or Arena. Or the premiums. Or as of recently Objective.

Best damn playlists in the game. I'll put MLG there also, but not many of us play it.

BTB is terrible
So is invasion
Classic bombed because of terrible settings.
The rest are fringe playlists. Or just bad

Exactly. HaloGAF, generally speaking, does not represent the player base, but the hardcore player base.

BIG TEAM BATTLE 5,165 Players

INVASION 2,795 Players

TEAM SWAT 5,157 Players

LIVING DEAD 12,281 Players

GRIFBALL 2,117 Players


The real fringe playlists are:

MLG 641 Players

TEAM OBJECTIVE 418 Players

FIREFIGHT LIMITED 314 Players

SQUAD SLAYER 1,281 Players

We are hardcore. Hardcore are the fringe.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I don't think that gives people enough credit. The difference is not in the name, it's in the content. One is tailored for the masses, and one a bit more hardcore, and the populations represent accordingly.

GAF is a more hardcore community, and so...


Exactly. HaloGAF, generally speaking, does not represent the player base, but the hardcore player base.

BIG TEAM BATTLE 5,165 Players

INVASION 2,795 Players

TEAM SWAT 5,157 Players

LIVING DEAD 12,281 Players

GRIFBALL 2,117 Players


The real fringe playlists are:

MLG 641 Players

TEAM OBJECTIVE 418 Players

FIREFIGHT LIMITED 314 Players

SQUAD SLAYER 1,281 Players

We are hardcore. Hardcore are the fringe.

Damn. You and Louis are just bringing the smackdown to Halogaf today. What you are saying though is the truth. The numbers don't lie.

 

[senador]

That gives me a sad, but I know it to be true.

Some of you don't give casuals enough credit. I think both crowds are important to the success (online play, fun, and numbers) so it's about striking that balance.

I really do think 343 has a helluva task.

 

[feel]

Wish I could stop reading this thread until some big news come out. I always leave really depressed.


also

Wu is right and I would go even further to say the hardcore don't really know what they want. They just think they do. This includes myself too.

 

[thezerofire]

Wait does Team Slayer really only average around 5K people at a time? geez. I remember playing Halo 3 2 years after release and Social Slayer still had over 75K at a time.

 

[Homeboyd]

Wish I could stop reading this thread until some big news come out. I always leave really depressed.

Was thinking the same thing.

Need something to get excited about, Halo-related. Hopefully the bulletin will go up soon and there will be something in there worthwhile.

 

[Tawpgun]

Wait does Team Slayer really only average around 5K people at a time? geez. I remember playing Halo 3 2 years after release and Social Slayer still had over 75K at a time.

....

So urk won't have to...

The player count in Reach is more accurate. Halo 3 took all players within a big time frame.

 

[Plywood]

While in Forge I noticed something today:

 

[Tunavi]

Nice find plywood. I always liked this one:

 

[Striker]

....

So urk won't have to...

The player count in Reach is more accurate. Halo 3 took all players within a big time frame.

On top of what you said, Reach uses a more accurate, up to date system compared to the 24-hour or whatever mark Halo 3 used.

The population in Reach is healthy, and fine. People think it's struggling for some odd reason because there aren't many GAF customs going on or because Halo is below CoD in the Activity Chart. MW and WaW weren't hitting over 800,000 all the time like MW2 and Black Ops are. Reach, meanwhile...

Not the norm, but it's been in the steady 700,000's for quite a while.

 

[Falt]

While in Forge I noticed something today:

Nice find plywood. I always liked this one:

You guys sleeping alright?

 

[squidhands]

Damn. You and Louis are just bringing the smackdown to Halogaf today. What you are saying though is the truth. The numbers don't lie.

I wish they did. Those Living Dead numbers are heartbreaking. That many people playing Halo to play the least Halo-y thing out there...smh

 

[Tunavi]

Infection is fun in customs on forge maps designed for the gametype. It was really intense when I played it in Halo 3 customs.

On default maps in Reach, its just target practice and I feel people only play it because its easy.

 

[Nutter]

I think some of you forget Squad Slayer is 5v5. I hardly EVER want to play anything over 4v4.

Another thing to note, Team Slayer has high weighting on Community Maps, so far everyone I have had a chance to play have been Jet Pack heavy. So with the general dislike of Gray everywhere along with Jet Packs usually keeps me away from Slayer. But nothing here that has been discussed explains why "Living Dead" playlist averages more people than any other playlist at any given time.

Reach = Living Dead First, Halo Second.

Spoiler

Remove these extra fluff playlists, make them a weekend only deal, streamline the rest of the play lists and then we will see if people actually give a damn about Halo gameplay anymore

Halo gameplay was not getting stale, it was the damn decisions in matchmaking that is and was turning people away.

In a perfect world

Remove certain play lists, integrate them into others, (like Team Classic), (Some game types from Team Action Sack)

TEAM SLAYER
-Team Slayer DMR's
-Team Slayer Pro
-Team Slayer Classic (Essentially removes the existing Team Classic)
-Team Slayer

TEAM OBJECTIVE
-Multi-Flag CTF
-Classic CTF
-1 Flag
-Neutral Flag
-Oddball
-Multi-Bomb
-1 Bomb
-1 Bomb Fast
-Neutral Bomb

TEAM SKIRMISH
-Headhunter
-Crazy King
-CTF Slayer
-Stockpile
-Speed Pile
-Speed Flag
-VIP

TEAM HARDCORE
-Team Snipers
-Team Swat
-Team Elimination

BTB
-BTB Slayer
-BTB CTF
-BTB Bomb
-BTB Neutral Flag
-BTB Neutral Bomb
-BTB 1 Flag
-BTB 1 Bomb

MLG
-Insert MLG Variant's Here

DLC
-Team Slayer
-Team CTF
-Team Bomb

Invasion
-Insert Invasion Variant's here

Griffball / Living Dead / Action Sack should be all Extra's (aka Weekend)

With a few tweaks and of course choices on AA's in the play lists and proper time limits set on the objectives, this would make for some AWESOME matchmaking choices.

 

[Plywood]

You guys sleeping alright?

You don't see it?

 

[Devin Olsen]

You don't see it?

Because of the curl of the tail? You're one of those people who see stuff in the textures too, aren't you.

 

[Hey You]

Griffball / Living Dead / Action Sack should be all Extra's (aka Weekend)

.

Why remove playlists that usually have decent populations (1000+)? Do you think people may suddenly play other playlists?

Perhaps,but maybe people may only play on the weekends or just get frustrated and pick up another game?

 

[The Librarian]

You don't see it?

http://i.imgur.com/J4HMp.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]
No. The only thing is the curl in the tail...that's it. Other than that they're completely different.

 

[LunaticPuma]

I don't think that gives people enough credit. The difference is not in the name, it's in the content. One is tailored for the masses, and one a bit more hardcore, and the populations represent accordingly.

GAF is a more hardcore community, and so...

Your argument is still poorly constructed relying on numbers from a single implementation of the variables, but we'll never get data to illustrate what draws players to the primary "Team Slayer" playlist.


Nutter is right though that the original Halo gameplay is now the fringe. It's kind of a scary thought considering the core gameplay is what grew the community through Halo 1's life. If not for the hardcore and LANs, we'd all be playing different games now anyway. Now we have Living Dead, Racing, and SWAT which are more popular niches that the original gameplay.

 

[Striker]

Infection is fun in customs on forge maps designed for the gametype. It was really intense when I played it in Halo 3 customs.

On default maps in Reach, its just target practice and I feel people only play it because its easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV-3vpXTETA

 

[Nutter]

Why remove playlists that usually have decent populations (1000+)? Do you think people may suddenly play other playlists?

Perhaps,but maybe people may only play on the weekends or just get frustrated and pick up another game?

Those playlists are tge easiest ones to get credits for doing nothing. Also is Halo an fps or zombie game or hammer football game. Even if they wont play the other playlists how is having people boost in those playlists benefiting the rest of Reach. Yeah i realize taking them out wont neccessary benefit Reach either but hey there are way too many playlists. If people really want to play living dead they need to buy left 4 dead.

 

[Plywood]

Because of the curl of the tail? You're one of those people who see stuff in the textures too, aren't you.

No. The only thing is the curl in the tail...that's it. Other than that they're completely different.

That's mostly what I was talking about, but it also looks like the midsection was shoved on the bottom.

It's a headless seahorse people!

Bungie am love animals confirmed.

 

[Louis Wu]

Wait does Team Slayer really only average around 5K people at a time? geez. I remember playing Halo 3 2 years after release and Social Slayer still had over 75K at a time.

As Tawp pointed out, Halo 3's method of calculating players is totally different from Reach's method - they're not really comparable.

But even outside of that, this discussion began during the morning of a weekday. The numbers on a weekend evening (or even a weekday evening) are much, much higher. (Team Slayer averages 30+ thousand during primetime.)

 

[The Librarian]

Zombies was especially good on Sandtrap. Super speed and vehicles. Made for some very epic and intense moments. A lot of fun.

 

[Trasher]

Nice find plywood. I always liked this one:

I don't see this one at all...lol.

 

[LunaticPuma]

Why remove playlists that usually have decent populations (1000+)? Do you think people may suddenly play other playlists?

Perhaps,but maybe people may only play on the weekends or just get frustrated and pick up another game?

The harm done by these playlists was more or less done during development. Having resources work on things outside of the core Halo gameplay potentially detracts from using resources for core aspects like having more campaign levels, more MP maps, or having a refined FF Versus. It comes down to trying to do too much and thus diluting portions of the product. Granted those examples may not be realistic trade-offs, but you get the idea. It saddens me that no Halo game by Bungie was ever allowed to be polished to completion.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I don't see this one at all...lol.

Maybe this will help:

 

[Falagard]

I hear this a lot from folks who think they're hardcore because they've been around for a long time. "We're responsible for the success of your game!"

This is bullshit. The hardcore (for EVERY Halo title) is a tiny subset. It's ALWAYS a tiny subset. The VAST majority of Halo players has ALWAYS been more casual than that.

I would like to agree because I know statistically all the super Halo fans that post on b.net, HBO and GAF are a tiny percentage, but on the other hand I think that anyone who plays Halo Reach for months and months after launch can be considered a little more than just "casual" players. The majority play to have fun (as we all should!) rather than being super competitive, but they probably still consider Halo one of their favorite games.

I realize you're trying to put things into perspective, but on the other hand, I think in general the majority of players still say "ugg, this map sucks" and "ugg... sometimes i hate armor lock" and "ugg... the warthog rolled over again" and "damn bloom I shot that guy in the face" where the hardcore fans just spend more time arguing over why maps suck, why armor lock makes you angry, why the warthog is worse in Reach and why bloom should be punched in the genitals.

Basically, also my local friends and I used to play Halo 2 and Halo 3 all the time, but I can't get them to play Reach anymore. Anecdotal evidence that may be, but it seems to be pretty common among other people I talk to as well.

 

[Tunavi]

I don't see this one at all...lol.

yeah its a bird looking into its reflection haha, i just posted a literal picture for the lulz

 

[senador]

Plastlist changes...

Hire Nutter!

Spoiler

I don't think its fair to alienate certain people though by removing or changing their loved playlists though. Also, I like Squad with its 5v5 and 75 to win. That added person and extra time feels right to me.

You don't see it?

http://i.imgur.com/J4HMp.jpg[/IMG]

I totally see it. Seahorse Rifle FTW.

Maybe this will help:
http://i.imgur.com/yREzL.jpg[/img]

Cannot...un...see... Now I see it in the first one too.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Your argument is still poorly constructed relying on numbers from a single implementation of the variables, but we'll never get data to illustrate what draws players to the primary "Team Slayer" playlist.

I think one can evaluate the variables currently at play and draw reasonable conclusions. I'm just citing the data, rather than creating hypotheticals.

But even outside of that, this discussion began during the morning of a weekday. The numbers on a weekend evening (or even a weekday evening) are much, much higher. (Team Slayer averages 30+ thousand during primetime.)

Yup. I was citing them to illustrate proportions, rather than raw numbers.

 

[Kuroyume]

The "hardcore" Halo base is most important and Bungie/343 have recognized this otherwise all the DLC would have been Griffball courts and BTB/Invasion maps. If it's so popular and that's all that matters then they should look at Griffball, Living Dead, and SWAT and may as well turn Halo into a COD style one hit kill game because that's all that is. It's not even Halo.

 

[feel]

I don't see this one at all...lol.