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[GhaleonEB]

This seems to be a trend within Gaf for Reach - X (X=current month) + 1 can't come soon enough... and repeat each month.

Had some decent games last night but for the love of all that preserves sanity please return the dlc playlists to dmr starts.

On another note, Jeremiah, while not perfect, has been roughly 8 times the playlist manager Shishka ever was, it's obscene to claim he is as bad if you remember Halo 3 in the first year.

I generally haven't expressed that sentiment as often because the playlists that have been updated haven't been the ones I'm interested in. So it's a new mantra for me. We'll see if I'm saying it May as well.

For all Jeremiah has done - and he's done a mammoth amount in his time so far - much of it was due entirely to the horrifying state of the playlists at launch. Beyond that, I find a lot of the priorities very strange. For instance, the rationale for changing Multi Team to the 3v3v3v3 format was to facilitate the inclusion of four way maps. So...where are they? It's months later. It's like he had a reason to change it and then forgot to follow up on that reason.

But for me specifically, the playlists I've liked in past Halo games are BTB and (to a lesser degree) Team Objective. And those playlists have largely been left in their launch state horror show. BTB in particular has astounding game types (see previous discussion about Invasion Slayer on Countdown; for me, it was Crazy King on Boneyard with a 30-second hill) and it's been allowed to fester for what, eight months? Yet Jeremiah has prioritized Action Sack, which requires extensive new game type scripting and custom maps. But getting a normal version of Assault, some CTF and clearing out the clutter from BTB has taken a much lower priority. Had the resources that went into building Action Sack been focused on BTB and Team Drop Shield, er, Objective, those playlists would be amazing.

And then there's the Firefight playlist management. Score Attack is a unique beast, one where a whole variety of great single player games could exist, some easy, some hard, some long, some short. But its the same sequence of one enemy type at a time in every mode, none last more than one Round (where's the solo survival mode?) and game types like Skirmageddon and Mythic Attack are in the mix. Firefight Limited has settings specifically crafted to motivate, enable, and reward griefers and idlers, and the that playlist population has responded accordingly. Firefight Arcade is a very strange beast, dominated by Rocket and FRGattack.

What I'm saying is, for all of Jeremiah's work, he hasn't gotten the playlists I play - Objective, BTB, Firefight - into shape. So for the most part all his considerable work hasn't touched me. The stuff I like is still a mess.

 

[Hey You]

Is there really no way to turn that off for MLG? Is there really no way to be un-permamuted?

You don't stay perma-muted. It comes off later that day I believe.

 

[Hey You]

Whatever the state of the playlists, I've been wondering since the beginning why Bungie seemingly "forgot" all the progress they made with playlist management in Halo 3. For example, Team Snipers was removed from Team Slayer and given its own playlist in Halo 3, but when Reach came around, Team Snipers was in Team Slayer again...only to be removed and given its own playlist.

Shishka'd

Spoiler

Am I doing it right?

 

[Tunavi]

I got the unfortunate chance of playing Invasion Skirmish on Anchor 9 and Countdown myself. For the life of me, I can't understand why such a gametype is scheduled on a small map. Why isn't this on Spire, Boneyard, Hemorrhage, Breakpoint, etc., where the territorial objectives make sense? I like Invasion Skirmish above Invasion Slayer for the fact you have your weapons/vehicles spawn immediately rather than wait. They are also random so if you're the Elite squad you aren't limited to such things like the blueberry gun or a Ghost, but instead can gain a Sniper Rifle or Rocket Launcher.

I like your thinking. Skirmish should replace Slayer in Invasion. Way more balanced.

I think when they were testing Invasion Slayer all the Bungie guys in charge of what gets in and whats out were on the Spartan team.

They probably tested it pre-beta when the Elites were very powerful, and then didn't test it again after the Beta, because they were too busy wrapping the game up for Zero Bug Release

avatar quote

I know you're proud of making that avatar, but the shotgun is not a precision weapon.

Spoiler

Team Starwolf

 

[A27_StarWolf]

why should I use a crt?

 

[Havok]

I like your thinking. Skirmish should replace Slayer in Invasion. Way more balanced.

Either way, the third phase of Invasion gametypes needs a serious overhaul. It's a total mess with a thousand shotguns, swords, grenade launchers, and concussion rifles littering the map. It makes the last phase a nightmare on each of the three maps, with Breakpoint being the least offensive. The loadouts aren't the only issue there: the ridiculous Spartan spawns on Boneyard combined with what seems to be a 45-60 second Scorpion and Banshee spawn, the core drop-off mechanic in Spire that leads to Drop Shield camping, and much more (Breakpoint is the anomaly here, with the first phase being the chaotic and largely unfun part).

I hope there are some Invasion forge maps in the pipe, because three maps, all of which are kind of poor for at least a third of each match, can't really carry an entire playlist on its own. It's a nice novelty but its starting to get stale.

What I'm saying is, for all of Jeremiah's work, he hasn't gotten the playlists I play - Objective, BTB, Firefight - into shape. So for the most part all his considerable work hasn't touched me. The stuff I like is still a mess.

At one point in Halo's existence, Objective/Skirmish and Big Team Battle were what the team was obviously focusing on (that Zanzibar vidoc is a prime examle of this, where everybody seemed genuinely excited about how the map would play in a single flag game), and seeing the sea change that's been occurring over the years has been a little off-putting. Whether its inexplicable playlist management or the stronger focus on maps being good for Slayer above all else, I dunno. Times are a'changin'.

 

[MrBig]

Not sure if this is meant to be a HURRAH response, due to the badass nature of my avvy (Thanks btw)

Or if its meant to show hypocrisy since I have a shotgun in my avvy. If this is the case, its just because he was holding a shotgun originally. Although it would be cool to get one of those rotating image avatars that changes every refresh, so I could have other weapons cycle through. Do those still work?

I really over analyzed this

The latter and no

 

[Captain Blood]

I am just waiting for someone to shop Frankie into an Obama "Change" poster lol

 

[kylej]

I am just waiting for someone to shop Frankie into an Obama "Change" poster lol

I think "Hope" would be more appropriate.

 

[vhfive]

why should I use a crt?

OG HaloGAF knows it's because auto aim works better on it

Spoiler

Lake Minnetonka = EazyB Max_PL

 

[A27_StarWolf]

I just don't want to give my self anymore advantages, I mean I have a ton already

 

[ChrisD84]

I felt like playing a bit of Halo 3 again tonight just for a change, but as with the last time i tried it, i cannot get rid of the message that says i do not have one of more of the required maps to play in that playlist (I have re-downloaded all of the DLC maps (including cold storage) but the problem remained)

I can enter some of the playlists that require all DLC (Team Mythic, MLG) but not some of the others (BTB, team doubles, rumble pit), which makes me think it is an issue with my disc and a default map, however i bought a new copy of the game and that didn't solve it.

Any ideas what might be the problem?

 

[Blue Ninja]

I'm up for playing through any of the co-op campaigns too. Getting my mind off exams would be a great help

I've got you on my FR, right? If so, we can play together sometime, if exams allow it.

 

[wwm0nkey]

That Halo: Faith short film comes out this fall and they just released this teaser image.

 

[Lake Minnetonka]

When a game is mechanically sound people can put up with shit playlist management for 3 years. When the base game is shit, amazing playlist management is required. Shishka was so incompetent he made Halo 3 hard to play many time, NoF is doing a better job but he's left polishing a turd. If Bungie wants people playing Reach this time next year

Spoiler

(they don't care)

then NoF has to go beyond incompetent, beyond lackluster, and start treading the passable waters.

I felt like playing a bit of Halo 3 again tonight just for a change, but as with the last time i tried it, i cannot get rid of the message that says i do not have one of more of the required maps to play in that playlist (I have re-downloaded all of the DLC maps (including cold storage) but the problem remained)

I can enter some of the playlists that require all DLC (Team Mythic, MLG) but not some of the others (BTB, team doubles, rumble pit), which makes me think it is an issue with my disc and a default map, however i bought a new copy of the game and that didn't solve it.

Any ideas what might be the problem?

Create a custom lobby and see which map won't load.

 

[The Librarian]

Just finished re-watching all the Halo 2 cutscenes on youtube (should be writing a paper, but ya know...). Damn. The writing in that game was so good, and the cliffhanger, now that Halo 3 is out, is pretty badass and so spectacularly awesome.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Today's Exodus Challenge is incompletely written in the in-game UI. On Bungie.net it reads:

Complete Exodus, without dying, on Legendary with Mythic, Thunderstorm, Tilt, and Tough Luck on.​

From the Reach Start menu, it reads:

Complete Exodus on Legendary with Mythic, Thunderstorm, Tilt and Tough Luck on.​

Exodus is a great mission that also has a lot of very frustrating BS - civilians, the rail ride, homicidal Marines, Wraiths that cheat. But given the lack of no-death requirement (I checked Challenges today when I fired up the game, not on b.net), I decided to work through it since I wouldn't fail for dying. After an hour and 2/3 of the mission, I died to one of my banes (the stun effect of the Concussion Rifle prevented me from moving out of the way of subsequent volleys), and got the Challenge Failed message. I check b.net, and sure enough, no deaths is a requirement (I'd have handled that section differently had I known).

I don't know how that sort of thing can happen, but the result is a very frustrating waste of time. :\

Edit: I know about the save/quite glitch, but I don't like using it most of the time.

Just finished re-watching all the Halo 2 cutscenes on youtube (should be writing a paper, but ya know...). Damn. The writing in that game was so good, and the cliffhanger, now that Halo 3 is out, is pretty badass and so spectacularly awesome.

Aye, Halo 2's story, character writing, dialog...amazing work. Still some of my favorite game writing ever.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Just finished re-watching all the Halo 2 cutscenes on youtube (should be writing a paper, but ya know...). Damn. The writing in that game was so good, and the cliffhanger, now that Halo 3 is out, is pretty badass and so spectacularly awesome.

If Halo 2 and 3 where combined and Halo 3 actually had a better Arbiter....perfect game.

 

[ChrisD84]

Create a custom lobby and see which map won't load.

I've tried that with a few maps, but not all of them. I'll give it a shot

Edit:

Okay, i noticed that the 3 maps from the Legendary map pack were not in the list, and it turns out that the data was corrupt, so i downloaded the pack again and it now works.

Strange though that the Mythic playlist was letting me in when it says that it requires all DLC.

Now i can finally play some BTB

 

[MrBig]

I've got you on my FR, right? If so, we can play together sometime, if exams allow it.

Nope, FR sent

 

[Havok]

Today's Exodus Challenge is incompletely written in the in-game UI. On Bungie.net it reads:

Complete Exodus, without dying, on Legendary with Mythic, Thunderstorm, Tilt, and Tough Luck on.​

From the Reach Start menu, it reads:

Complete Exodus on Legendary with Mythic, Thunderstorm, Tilt and Tough Luck on.​

Exodus is a great mission that also has a lot of very frustrating BS - civilians, the rail ride, homicidal Marines, Wraiths that cheat. But given the lack of no-death requirement (I checked Challenges today when I fired up the game, not on b.net), I decided to work through it since I wouldn't fail for dying. After an hour and 2/3 of the mission, I died to one of my banes (the stun effect of the Concussion Rifle prevented me from moving out of the way of subsequent volleys), and got the Challenge Failed message. I check b.net, and sure enough, no deaths is a requirement (I'd have handled that section differently had I known).

Save and quit, then load from the checkpoint. It'll be active again. It's bizarre. Earlier today, I don't think bnet actually had the 'without dying' part. I did notice it in Reach, though, because if you select the challenge (which I did in order to hit A to jump to the lobby), it'll tell you that the level has to be done without dying.

Weird problem.

Aye, Halo 2's story, character writing, dialog...amazing work. Still some of my favorite game writing ever.

Then the kids complained that it wasn't simple enough for them, and the great writing was replaced by literary gems such as "To war," and rehashed Gravemind and Prophet of Truth lines (but by Ron Perlman this time, in the case of the Prophet lines).

 

[Steelyuhas]

Aye, Halo 2's story, character writing, dialog...amazing work. Still some of my favorite game writing ever.

So good.

 

[MrBig]

So good.

I never understood the hate for the H2 campaign by a lot of GAFfers here. It's certainly my favorite in the story department, aside from the last mission they cut and were forced to end with a cliffhanger.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I never understood the hate for the H2 campaign by a lot of GAFfers here. It's certainly my favorite in the story department, aside from the last mission they cut and were forced to end with a cliffhanger.

The ending made the whole thing feel like a filler. Thats why a lot of people hate it, but now that we know how it ends, going through it again is amazing.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I never understood the hate for the H2 campaign by a lot of GAFfers here. It's certainly my favorite in the story department, aside from the last mission they cut and were forced to end with a cliffhanger.

It was a huge let down from HCE. I think that's the main problem.

 

[The Antitype]

I don't have any problems with the AR.

It's a great fall-back weapon. Blast a few pistol shots at medium range, close the gap and switch to the AR to clean up the garbage.

I actually usually switch out the pistol for the DMR rather than the AR, so that I can keep the AR for close-encounters.

EDIT: Ok that was weird, I clicked on this thread at the page that came up was a conversation about the AR.

Then I post a message and find that the convo was like, weeks ago. Weird.

 

[randomlyrossy]

Aside from the ending I always liked Halo 2's story. I love the idea of Gravemind and adored his (its?) dialogue too. Would've liked it even more if my friend hadn't spoiled the whole playing as the Arbiter angle.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

I still believe that Halo:ODST has the Best Story, and The best Music. Got to love Sadies story.

 

[randomlyrossy]

I still believe that Halo:ODST has the Best Story, and The best Music. Got to love Sadies story.

There's no doubt ODST has the best soundtrack, it's perfect.

I enjoyed most of the story except the romantic part with Buck and Dare, I thought it was pretty cringeworthy. All the stuff outside of that was great though, I especially liked how it was told.

 

[MrBig]

It was a huge let down from HCE. I think that's the main problem.

The only let down was in the perceived scale of each individual area and a move to a more realistic aesthetic, I have no idea where you are coming from with this
Story is broader, there is more to explore, levels are more detailed, expanded sandbox, BR and hopy shet multiplayer

And while yes, H:CE is certainly still on top, it was in no way better or worse than the story alone told in H2.

 

[Tunavi]

I still believe that Halo:ODST has the Best Story, and The best Music. Got to love Sadies story.

ODST has the best atmosphere. Halo 1 has the best story.

 

[The Librarian]

Then the kids complained that it wasn't simple enough for them, and the great writing was replaced by literary gems such as "To war," and rehashed Gravemind and Prophet of Truth lines (but by Ron Perlman this time, in the case of the Prophet lines).

Which doesn't really make any sense to me. Those same kids who complain about that stuff don't care anyway. I know the Arbiter missions weren't that great, but they got better towards the end (I really enjoy Uprising and The Great Journey sans the boss fight).

 

[The Real Napsta]

The only let down was in the perceived scale of each individual area and a move to a more realistic aesthetic, I have no idea where you are coming from with this
Story is broader, there is more to explore, levels are more detailed, expanded sandbox, BR and hopy shet multiplayer

And while yes, H:CE is certainly still on top, it was in no way better or worse than the story alone told in H2.

Gameplay > story.

Halo 2 was a huge let down for me on all fronts. Campaign was not as good as CE (imo), MP was complete garbage until the 1.1 update (6 melees to kill, firecracker nades, BR with a spread like a shotgun).

I suggested that we play Halo Ce at a November 9th 2004 Halo 2 LAN because I thought it was so bad. Obviously people threw **** at me.

 

[MrBig]

Gameplay > story.

That explains your views then. I'm not saying anything about gameplay.

 

[Tashi]

Gameplay > story.

Halo 2 was a huge let down for me on all fronts. Campaign was not as good as CE (imo), MP was complete garbage until the 1.1 update (6 melees to kill, firecracker nades, BR with a spread like a shotgun).

I suggested that we play Halo Ce at a November 9th 2004 Halo 2 LAN because I thought it was so bad. Obviously people threw **** at me.

They threw Ninja stars at you?

 

[The Real Napsta]

They threw Ninja stars at you?

Pop cans/trash/whatever they could get their hands on.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

It was a huge let down from HCE. I think that's the main problem.

That may have been a big part of the problem for me. Sure, the story was great, but the play compared to Halo:CE was so different that I didn't enjoy it at all. I liked none of the Arbiter missions, despite the fact that I thought he was cool. I enjoyed the cut-scenes with him, but cut-scenes aren't playable. I thought the flood went from creepy to almost fake. And then there was the problem with

Spoiler

brutes being awful,

for me at least. I think I need to go back and replay the campaign and then I'll re-post my thoughts. I do remember never really getting absorbed into any of the levels in the campaign. I don't know if it was due to the music or the level design or what.

 

[urk]

Spoiler

(they don't care)

Spoiler

If "they" is our accountant, you're probably right. Any support and sustain we provide is an investment that can't be connected to a tangible return (at least not on a ledger). Of course, the rest of us think a bit differently, which is why this level of console game support was pioneered by dudes at Bungie (and a handful of other studios), why Jeremiah's (and my) job exists at all, and while we'll continue to pull the trigger on matchmaking updates until the required ordnance is literally pulled from our hands.

Implementing updates isn't as easy as moving Forge items. Unfortunately, there are real technical hurdles that must be leapt, internal consensus to be won, and a community filled with vehement opinions that must be considered. There's a reason only a few developers concern themselves with years, or even months, of post-ship community support and it isn't because the proposition is easy.

I totally agree with you (at least in spirit) on the mechanic front. If you don't enjoy Reach's core gameplay, there's nothing Jeremiah is going to be able to do to satisfy you. Unless you are really, really looking forward to Splockets.

None of this is meant to excuse any of the missteps away, mind you. We've already got a fairly significant "postmortem" in the works. Every one of our wounded will get a thorough jab from our bayonets.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Spoiler

If "they" is our accountant, you're probably right. Any support and sustain we provide is an investment that can't be connected to a tangible return (at least not on a ledger). Of course, the rest of us think a bit differently, which is why this level of console game support was pioneered by dudes at Bungie (and a handful of other studios), why Jeremiah's (and my) job exists at all, and while we'll continue to pull the trigger on matchmaking updates until the required ordnance is literally pulled from our hands.

Implementing updates isn't as easy as moving Forge items. Unfortunately, there are real technical hurdles that must be leapt, internal consensus to be won, and a community filled with vehement opinions that must be considered. There's a reason only a few developers concern themselves with years, or even months, of post-ship community support and it isn't because the proposition is easy.

I totally agree with you (at least in spirit) on the mechanic front. If you don't enjoy Reach's core gameplay, there's nothing Jeremiah is going to be able to do to satisfy you. Unless you are really, really looking forward to Splockets.

None of this is meant to excuse any of the missteps away, mind you. We've already got a fairly significant "postmortem" in the works. Every one of our wounded will get a thorough jab from our bayonets.

Define "missteps"?

 

[urk]

Define "missteps"?

Armor Lock is a touch underpowered. I'll think of more later.

 

[Plywood]

They threw Ninja stars at you?

YES

YES

Spoiler

epic troll

Implementing updates isn't as easy as moving Forge items. Unfortunately, there are real technical hurdles that must be leapt, internal consensus to be won, and a community filled with vehement opinions that must be consi-

Okay, that's cool and all and I'ma let you finish but having that spot in Sword Base for Zombies that hasn't been fixed for months tells a different story.

 

[Domino Theory]

Were the playlists at the end of Halo 3's life not better than those at launch?

If yes, that's progress...however small you might perceive it.

Halo 2 and Halo 3 had icons and text telling you if your flag was stolen or if you took the other team's flag.

That same thing was not natively in Reach and had to be added in via a matchmaking update 6 months after its release.

Just think about that for a second.

 

[Hydranockz]

Urk saves the thread. How long before lakeyB shops urk on to a gif with terrible taste?

Negativity was at a high in this thread it should be noted. Funny how that accidental AR post actually fitted in fine

We'll he fine in a week when the cycle starts over I'm sure.

 

[Havok]

YES

YES

Spoiler

epic troll

Okay, that's cool and all and I'ma let you finish but having that spot in Sword Base for Zombies that hasn't been fixed for months tells a different story.

http://i.imgur.com/fCHsR.jpg

And

Which doesn't really make any sense to me. Those same kids who complain about that stuff don't care anyway. I know the Arbiter missions weren't that great, but they got better towards the end (I really enjoy Uprising and The Great Journey sans the boss fight).

Uprising is one of my favorite levels from that game. The problem is that vocal people weren't able to separate the Flood levels (those Heretic levels plus bits of Sacred Icon were not so hot) from the Arbiter as a character, and the sequel suffered for it. All subtlety was thrown out the window in an attempt to make the plot more accessible. For example, the Prophet of Truth in Halo 2 seemed malicious, conniving and just generally more clever than his counterparts, and it was obvious that he was a great, backstabby villain that was making a power grab. This shined through with Michael Wincott's great voice performance. Tons of nuance. Halo 3? Oh, he's a religious zealot. Just like the rest of the Covenant. Great. And while I like Terence Stamp, he brought nothing to that character that approached what it was before.

 

[The Librarian]

Spoiler

None of this is meant to excuse any of the missteps away, mind you. We've already got a fairly significant "postmortem" in the works. Every one of our wounded will get a thorough jab from our bayonets.

I'm getting excited again!

 

[Steelyuhas]

There's no doubt ODST has the best soundtrack, it's perfect.

I enjoyed most of the story except the romantic part with Buck and Dare, I thought it was pretty cringeworthy. All the stuff outside of that was great though, I especially liked how it was told.

Agreed.

Then the kids complained that it wasn't simple enough for them, and the great writing was replaced by literary gems such as "To war," and rehashed Gravemind and Prophet of Truth lines (but by Ron Perlman this time, in the case of the Prophet lines).

Yeah, loved H2's story and dialogue, and then there was H3's, which was painful in comparison.

Armor Lock is a touch underpowered. I'll think of more later.

Even as a joke, that stings.

Seriously though, a postmodern for Reach would be very interesting. You guys obviously made a number of significant changes with Reach (some good and some bad in my opinion). It would be interesting to hear about those from the designers.

Spoiler

Magnum nerf is one of the obvious missteps

 

[Hey You]

Seriously though, a postmodern for Reach would be very interesting. You guys obviously made a number of significant changes with Reach (some good and some bad in my opinion). It would be interesting to hear about those from the designers.

One last Halo/Reach podcast from Bungie would be nice.

Get a bunch of Halo Veterans from the Bungie team, talk about the past 10 years (or however long they've been working on Halo), The Ups and Downs along the way,fond memories etc

Would be a pretty awesome podcast and good way to say good by to the Halo-Bungie Era IMO.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

And

We have to go deeeeper

But on a serieus note, dropshields are a real problem and the only way I can see it getting implented in matchmaking is as a pickup. Then , it would be more like a bubbleshield which you can use multiple times

 

[A27_StarWolf]

Armor Lock is a touch underpowered. I'll think of more later.

+ 10 respect points.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Thanks to @HaloWaypoint for bringing sone awesome not-yet-aired videos to #RvBCanWest! Headhunters is coming this summer!

http://twitter.com/#!/thevowel/status/64806991612215296

It's awesome to see that the Halo: Evolutions are getting a video treatment. As an anime-fan I'm hoping that Gainax is already working on 90minutes Halo anime movie.

Spoiler

most of you guys are going to hate me for that comment.