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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come

S

Steelyuhas

Member
Ramirez said:
If you're not going to make BTB require DLC, stop making DLC BTB maps, they're a complete waste of a map, Highlands is so boring with 6v6.
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I have never played Highlands in an 8v8 matchmade game, and I doubt I ever will. DLC integration in this game is downright awful.
 
K

Krispy

Member
So thinking Asylum would be better than Enclosed even with AR starts was apparently the height of folly. Seriously, fuck AR starts.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Tunavi said:
I cannot believe armor lock is still in this game.
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Steelyuhas said:
I can't believe armor lock ever made it off the design table and into a build of the game.
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It's all perspective. If you're a developer at Bungie who loves Halo, but on a more casual level, and you are not as good as the competitive player base, armor lock is something that gives you a lot more survivability. And surviving massive amounts of damage while letting teammates bail you out of trouble is a very cool idea in theory. But in practice, it detracts from the game more than it contributes. Still, there are tons of players who love it, and why wouldn't they? They are experiencing something they've never been able to experience before: not dying every two seconds during games.
 
H

Havok

Member
Krispy said:
So thinking Asylum would be better than Enclosed even with AR starts was apparently the height of folly. Seriously, fuck AR starts.
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Nothing is worse than Enclosed. Period.

Would rather play Headhunter on Two Boxes.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
It's all perspective. If you're a developer at Bungie who loves Halo, but on a more casual level, and you are not as good as the competitive player base, armor lock is something that gives you a lot more survivability. And surviving massive amounts of damage while letting teammates bail you out of trouble is a very cool idea in theory. But in practice, it detracts from the game more than it contributes. Still, there are tons of players who love it, and why wouldn't they? They are experiencing something they've never been able to experience before: not dying every two seconds during games.
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Yes, it is perspective I guess, but I can't personally see how a developer, especially one like Bungie with a ton of experience in multiplayer FPS can think its a good idea to put an ability in the game that literally allows players to press the pause button. One of the most baffling ideas to make it into a game.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Yes, it is perspective I guess, but I can't personally see how a developer, especially one like Bungie with a ton of experience in multiplayer FPS can think its a good idea to put an ability in the game that literally allows players to press the pause button. One of the most baffling ideas to make it into a game.
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Yeah I'm not saying I like it :) I'm constantly getting frustrated during games, but armor lock is just one of many things.
 
K

Krispy

Member
Where is your God now, HaloGaf?!
GUwj0.jpg


:(
 
T

The Henery

Member
Letters said:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Sage-M...wall&filter=12
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Recall the vidoc where Hamrick describes aa's and loadouts as 'breeding a smarter combat', Luke Smith acknowledging that it's overpowered then saying he 'loves it', Joe Tung states 'it is just fucking fun'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-YaHOpIa1s&feature=player_detailpage#t=222s

It wasn't just Sage plus they were all testing the game (allegedly) so somebody could've raised concerns about armour lock. It's always Merril's face on the dartboard but they all should've stepped in and made an intervention about AL; to me, AL remains the single worst, most staggeringly stupid design decision to make its way into a AAA game.

Havok said:
Nothing is worse than Enclosed. Period.

Would rather play Headhunter on Two Boxes.
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Headhunter is fantastic in multiteam now skullamanjaros have been removed. DMR starts, no evade, it really plays like the fun party gametype multiteam was made for. Seeing ten skulls spew out from a guy just before he's about to bank them, then gobbling them up all for yourself is a delight. Great new (party) objective mode imo.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
thee henery said:
Recall the vidoc where Hamrick describes aa's and loadouts as 'breeding a smarter combat', Luke Smith acknowledging that it's overpowered then saying he 'loves it', Joe Tung states 'it is just fucking fun'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-YaHOpIa1s&feature=player_detailpage#t=222s

It wasn't just Sage plus they were all testing the game (allegedly) so somebody could've raised concerns about armour lock. It's always Merril's face on the dartboard but they all should've stepped in and made an intervention about AL; to me, AL remains the single worst, most staggeringly stupid design decision to make its way into a AAA game.



Headhunter is fantastic in multiteam now skullamanjaros have been removed. DMR starts, no evade, it really plays like the fun party gametype multiteam was made for. Seeing ten skulls spew out from a guy just before he's about to bank them, then gobbling them up all for yourself is a delight. Great new (party) objective mode imo.
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Oh god, the hype that vidoc built up was staggering. Everyone in that vidoc seems so positive, and they somehow spun all the changes to make them sound good and exciting.

I cant believe everyone at Bungie was universally behind the changes, how could no one at the studio see the problems with aa's like armour lock? Im willing to bet good money people argued against some of the changes but where shut down by the higher ups with ultimate control over the sandbox.

Krispy - thats only possible in forge right? Imagine if that could happen in matchmaking it would be insane. GUI's joke about having to tap to leave armour lock for a few seconds would come true lol.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Halo 4 dev: "there's a lot of stuff COD does beautifully that we should do better"
Halo used to be top dog in console multiplayer circles. Halo 2, in case you missed the memo, was the first runaway Xbox Live success. Then Call of Duty came along, stuffed the envelope full of Claymore mines and blew it over the horizon. Hard luck Bungie, and hard luck 343 Industries, faced with the unenviable task of taking the baton in a post-Modern-Warfare world.

"We had Xbox #1 spot to ourselves for years," 343 bossman and Bungie veteran Frank O'Connor commented ruefully when asked how 343 felt about its competitors. "You said Call of Duty and other shooters, but it's basically just COD."

O'Connor doesn't think Call of Duty has sucked away all the oxygen, however. Nor does he think Battlefield is the only Rebel Alliance worthy of this particular evil Empire. "There's been blood in the water with Battlefield 3 being so direct, but there's plenty of room in the top ten for multiple shooters, let alone just us two. We just have to earn our spot, it's as simple as that. And you do that by trying harder and making better stuff."

Call of Duty's cultural ubiquity is difficult to crack, O'Connor added. "The advantage Call of Duty has - apart from the fact they execute a beautiful game - they have the advantage of an ecosystem that we don't. Everyone at school is playing COD, no matter what system they're on. PC, consoles, blah.

"In terms of how people relate to each other, they have an insurmountable advantage. So the way you deal with that is to make your own experience the best it can be. If that means that you beat you accept and embrace."

O'Connor concluded: "There's a lot of stuff that COD does beautifully that we should do better, and that should always be everyone's stance when they see a new game."

Not much is known about 343's Halo 4, but the first in the new Reclaimer trilogy has accumulated a mountain of hype already. The pressure's on for the Halo Anniversary developer - Microsoft Games Studio vice-president has said that losing the plot with Halo means losing the plot with Xbox.
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Blah this.
 
T

The Henery

Member
There's a lot of stuff that COD does beautifully that we should do better, and that should always be everyone's stance when they see a new game
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Like an improved theatre mode with the ability to upload straight to youtube.

I think Halo could be top of the leaderboards again, COD isn't insurmountable. Halo just needs to trim the flab. There's so many gamemodes and mm decisions that prevent Reach from being a real top, top quality game; things like bro slayer, all the aa's available from the start, disadvantaged spawning positions depending on your team colour, no 1-50 ranking... underneath the fluff Reach is a stellar game. It's going to be even better when we have the option to play without bloom; I just hope the playlist decisions and the aa to gametype homogeneity is given a real hard look at.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Blue Ninja said:
2-Hour campaign and expanded Loadouts confirmed.
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You forgot the "we won" ending.

But there are something CoD does that Halo could do better.

-Kill times, make them faster but not stupid fast like Call of Duty
-Theater System
-Player investment system
 
K

Krispy

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Krispy - thats only possible in forge right? Imagine if that could happen in matchmaking it would be insane. GUI's joke about having to tap to leave armour lock for a few seconds would come true lol.
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Yup. Thank God. Can you imagine a game where the only way to kill someone would be to Ninja them?
H3 Rocket Race says hi.

The reason I joined Gaf was the Halo community but I got put off by all the bitching. But now I see you bitch because you love. I want in please.
 
Deputy Moonman

Deputy Moonman

Member
wwm0nkey said:
You forgot the "we won" ending.

But there are something CoD does that Halo could do better.

-Kill times, make them faster but not stupid fast like Call of Duty
-Theater System
-Player investment system
Click to expand...
Even though CoD is always adding different weapons with each new game and additional features, the way combat works (weapon damage and kill times) stays essentially the same. I'm not a huge CoD fan, but I can appreciate that.

I've always been annoyed at Bungie's insistence on changing the combat with each new installment. Halo1 is great, and it can be argued that Bungie could have stayed with hitscan, fast-paced shooting for Halo2 and the game would have been fine. But no. They wanted to change things up with dual-wielding and and slower kill times. Still, Halo2 was a huge hit and a lot fun to play. So it can be argued that Halo3 could have stayed true to Halo2's combat and still been a great game. But nope. Let's mess with spread, bullet travel time, even slower kill times, and the removal of hitscan. And even for deviating further away from Halo's core combat mechanics, Halo3 was still pretty popular.

So what's next for Reach? They change it up again. Am i the only person wondering wtf is going on? How hard is it to stick with a formula that brought you success in the first place? It just seems to me that that's what CoD does and it keeps people happy. It's late, though, and I'm pretty tired. I'm probably not making any sense or thinking with a full deck.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
Even though CoD is always adding different weapons with each new game and additional features, the way combat works (weapon damage and kill times) stays essentially the same. I'm not a huge CoD fan, but I can appreciate that.

How hard is it to stick with a formula that brought you success in the first place? It just seems to me that that's what CoD does and it keeps people happy. It's late, though, and I'm pretty tired. I'm probably not making any sense or thinking with a full deck.
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1. To the unwashed masses, it hasn't really changed a whole lot, save perhaps Reach.
2. Does that sound fun to develop? Here guys, just make the same game in the updated engine, some new models, done, ship it. The challenge is to try something new (like 343 I think are doing) but still stay true to however they classify Halo gameplay.

It may keep CoD fans happy, but I for one would be annoyed if I was buying the same game with an updated skin every year.
 
W

wwm0nkey

Member
Yeah gameplay needs to be changed every once in awhile.

Really all I want from Halo 4 on the MP side

-Halo 2 quality maps from launch
-Faster movement speed (this is a must)
-Faster kill times
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
Even though CoD is always adding different weapons with each new game and additional features, the way combat works (weapon damage and kill times) stays essentially the same. I'm not a huge CoD fan, but I can appreciate that.

I've always been annoyed at Bungie's insistence on changing the combat with each new installment. Halo1 is great, and it can be argued that Bungie could have stayed with hitscan, fast-paced shooting for Halo2 and the game would have been fine. But no. They wanted to change things up with dual-wielding and and slower kill times. Still, Halo2 was a huge hit and a lot fun to play. So it can be argued that Halo3 could have stayed true to Halo2's combat and still been a great game. But nope. Let's mess with spread, bullet travel time, even slower kill times, and the removal of hitscan. And even for deviating further away from Halo's core combat mechanics, Halo3 was still pretty popular.

So what's next for Reach? They change it up again. Am i the only person wondering wtf is going on? How hard is it to stick with a formula that brought you success in the first place? It just seems to me that that's what CoD does and it keeps people happy. It's late, though, and I'm pretty tired. I'm probably not making any sense or thinking with a full deck.
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I'm with zeouterlimits.

Change in a franchise is good. It keeps it fresh. But it needs to be good change.

I appreciated the direction Reach was going. Single Shot rifle. Hitscan. Good.... Good.....

But then armor abilities, some weird design decisions with vehicles, bloom... 1 step forward and 2 back for me.

Do I want Halo 4 to be Halo 1.5, 2.5, 3.5 or Reach.5? Absolutely not. It needs to keep the core principles of Halo intact. Fast, precision based gameplay where everyone starts on even ground. Weapons primary, melee and grenades complement the weapon. Skill based. Nothing too random. 343 should have these things engraved on one of their walls or something. You never touch these aspects of the game, unless you're making a silly/fringe gametype like Invasion.

What I want from Halo 4 is all that above, with new weapons, and some new mechanic or two that doesn't break those core Halo principles.
 
E

erpg

GAF parliamentarian
wwm0nkey said:
Yeah gameplay needs to be changed every once in awhile.

Really all I want from Halo 4 on the MP side

-Halo 2 quality maps from launch
-Faster movement speed (this is a must)
-Faster kill times
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Its an open map team based game, kill times are fast enough. But everything else I'd heartily agree with. Bungie just crapped Reach out without testing and moved on to their next project. Only thing that could explain AAs and the decision to multipurpose single player and multi player areas.

343 will have to try hard to do worse.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
After about 4 days of hectic shit, I should be back to Reach today. Can't wait to cleanse some good kids
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
Krispy said:
Not at all. The Needler+Jetpack combo beats AR easily. By the time you hear it you've already blown the hell up.
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Every bullet the AR shoots is like a nuke. It's the best weapon in all of the Haloez. All hail the Assault Rifle.
 
K

KidA Seven

Member
I would like the AR to be like the smg from Shadowrun. The bloom is noticeable in there, and bursting makes a larger difference in there than in Reach. Also, the gun is a little harder to aim. That's not saying much though.


Edit: The smg in shadowrun just feels right.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
TheOddOne said:
^ I'm with both Deputy Moonman and A27 Tawpgun. Change is good.
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The point I was trying to make is it depends on the change.

If at some point they wanted to have a departure from classic Halo they need to market it as such.

J10 said:
I can't believe there are players who don't like Armor Lock. It's fucking awesome.
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eQmrG.jpg
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
The point I was trying to make is it depends on the change.

If at some point they wanted to have a departure from classic Halo they need to market it as such.
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Should have made my post clearer, but yeah the change has to fit in the context and feel like it belongs there. If throwing something in there "just because" then change is bad.
 
S

squidhands

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
The point I was trying to make is it depends on the change.

If at some point they wanted to have a departure from classic Halo they need to market it as such.



http://i.imgur.com/eQmrG.jpg[img][/QUOTE]Considering that you don't play as the Chief or even a Spartan II should have been enough to tell you that it wasn't going to be standard Halo.

[QUOTE=A27 Tawpgun]I'm talking if they were to do something far more tactical. Maybe 3rd person. Battlefield like, something of that sort. They would market it differently as far as MP goes.[/QUOTE]Ah, I misread what you were getting at, then. :-)
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