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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come

Tawpgun

Member
TheOddOne said:
Is that a part of longer text talking about Reach problems? If so, could you link me to the full article.
Not really, but it does talk why armor lock is bad from a denying guaranteed death standpoint. Sort of. And talks about why camo is problematic.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/headline/the-halo-bulletin-83111-/211200

The bloom thing is the most interesting because its what people on HaloGAF have been saying since the start. But now that its written by 343i, it holds more merit :p

I REAAAALLLLYYYY want to see the bloom defenders response to this. I'm assuming something along the lines of "Whatever, bloom never bothered me so I don't care."
 
How are we still having this debate when the developers themselves have plainly acknowledged the inherent flaws that exist with what is arguably Reach's most prominent gameplay mechanic in its current form? For logical reasons I can anticipate some issues that many will have with 0% bloom so it's going to be interesting to see if 343i, along with the community itself, can ever find that true sweet spot. Maybe around the 50% mark.
 

TheOddOne

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
Not really, but it does talk why armor lock is bad from a denying guaranteed death standpoint. Sort of. And talks about why camo is problematic.
Thanks. I really should reading Waypoint Weekly Updates more often.
 

Woorloog

Banned
xxxstylzxxx said:
How are we still having this debate when the developers themselves have plainly acknowledged the inherent flaws that exist with what is arguably Reach's most prominent gameplay mechanic in its current form?
Did Bungie ever acknowledge bloom is flawed? I've never seen a post stating that.
343i has stated that but they're not the original devs so that doesn't count.

BTW, i wanna play a zero bloom mode with one or two Nerfle(s) as a power weapon(s), no other power weapons.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
A27 Tawpgun said:
Not really, but it does talk why armor lock is bad from a denying guaranteed death standpoint. Sort of. And talks about why camo is problematic.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/headline/the-halo-bulletin-83111-/211200

The bloom thing is the most interesting because its what people on HaloGAF have been saying since the start. But now that its written by 343i, it holds more merit :p

I REAAAALLLLYYYY want to see the bloom defenders response to this. I'm assuming something along the lines of "Whatever, bloom never bothered me so I don't care."
Whatever, it never bothered me so I don't care. :p

This was posted a while ago. This is the Shishka article right? Yea, as a bloom defender I responded to it then, not gonna comment to it again.

Also, I don't necessarily think that just a because a 343i employee or Bungie employee has an opinion that it's necessarily true or has to be accepted as fact. I trust my own opinion and what I see and feel when I play. As far asI'm concerned his opinion is equally valid as all of yours, no more and no less.
 

Retro

Member
senador said:
Nah, those are all pretty good ideas. I don't care so much for the moving mechanics on maps as much as maps designed with certain goals and for objective games though.

I feel like there should be specific, objective-based maps that are built solely for things like Territories, Bomb, Flag, etc., so we're definitely in agreement on that. Once you've made those maps for objective games, THEN go in and make Slayer versions of them, not the other way around (for all I know, that may be exactly what they do, but it doesn't feel like it sometimes).

What I'm really getting at though is just having different mechanics and features on the maps, so things aren't a cut-and-dry matter of 'just stand here and defend the flag', but there can be tiers of objectives like 'keep the blast door closed' or 'keep the drawbridge raised', similar to Zanzibar / High Ground. Not quite at the level of Invasion maps, but things like that.

Waterworks is a good example; there's a huge shudder across the whole level, throwing things off every so often. Simple, adds a little something extra. Elongation is another, where the moving crates and such made for total chaos.

I guess the futuristic setting makes me want to see crazy shit like airlock doors you can temporarily open to decrease gravity or suck things into space / another part of the level, weird forerunner technology that can injure players, etc. I know it's a FPS and people need to be focused on shooting each other, but it feels like the potential is there to stand apart from the CoDs and such by taking advantage of the setting and having combat that's not just 'if it moves, kill it'.

senador said:
That's not exactly what I meant by my questions though. I was trying to see what people want out of sequels. Say they nail Halo 4, and everyone likes it; its balanced, its quick paced, new players can get into it, etc. What would people even want for Halo 5? Just more maps?

If Halo 4's multiplayer was absolutely perfect (I assume the single player will be satisfactory as always), what could they add for Halo 5? Well, for starters, keep all the maps from 4. As far as I'm concerned, the more maps the merrier, and if you already have a solid foundation of maps, you can then add more interesting stuff like a Map built solely for one or two objective gametypes but doesn't need to work well for anything else. A large vehicle-oriented map, for example, should be able to just be a big vehicle-oriented map and not need stuff sectioned off for other game types.

More gametypes, actually. For example, maybe something like 'mini-singleplayer' levels, not so much a survival thing like firefight, but ones that require multiple players working together for 10 minutes to complete an objective. Maybe even take some of the cooler, badass moments from previous Halo games and make them little bite-sized competitive co-op levels; moving towards an objective or escaping or something.

I dunno that I'd want more weapons, 'armor ability'-type things, etc.; if we're going under the pretense that Halo 4 is perfect, there's no need to mess with perfection. We all know it won't be (perfection is impossible), but if it's damn near ideal? Don't touch it at all. More maps (with more focus), more gametypes, more customization options (including Forge)... that's about it.
 

orznge

Banned
Tashi0106 said:
Whatever, it never bothered me so I don't care. :p

This was posted a while ago. This is the Shishka article right? Yea, as a bloom defender I responded to it then, not gonna comment to it again.

Also, I don't necessarily think that just a because a 343i employee or Bungie employee has an opinion that it's necessarily true or has to be accepted as fact. I trust my own opinion and what I see and feel when I play. As far asI'm concerned his opinion is equally valid as all of yours, no more and no less.

Or in this case a summary of the reasoning behind the design changes that are being made by the new studio in control of the game.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Tashi0106 said:
Whatever, it never bothered me so I don't care. :p

This was posted a while ago. This is the Shishka article right? Yea, as a bloom defender I responded to it then, not gonna comment to it again.

Also, I don't necessarily think that just a because a 343i employee or Bungie employee has an opinion that it's necessarily true or has to be accepted as fact. I trust my own opinion and what I see and feel when I play. As far asI'm concerned his opinion is equally valid as all of yours, no more and no less.

I agree with you I guess. If 343i came out and said "Bloom is amazing and is working perfectly with no flaws and all the armor abilities as loadouts are fine" I would trust my own opinion and know that I don't agree with what they say.

The difference between you, me, and Shishka, is Shishka has more influence over the actual game.

Either way, I'm happy someone at 343i realizes that bloom muddies combat at mid range. Because that's the belief I have.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
One of my games from last night. Starts off in typical fashion with my first three deaths to power weapons. There's the usual armor locking standoffs and invis camper with the sniper rifle. Some dingbat running around with the plasma pistol. No jetpacks, though, which surprised me. This was one of my better games from yesterday, which is sad.
You went totally psycho on the armour lock guy lol.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Blue Ninja said:
BAM, Kat's dead. Still a crappy death scene. "Who needs energy shields?" :lol
I sorta accepted that the glassing temporarily fried their shields and the death scene was meant to be an unexpected punch in the gut.

But it definitely could have been communicated and executed better.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
stephen08 said:
Adding a mechanic to change up firing rate doesn't make it deeper?

In previous games fights with the utility weapon were much more straightforward. My aiming vector vs. yours. Now it's My aiming vector + my ability to pace shots vs. your aiming vector and your ability to pace shots.

I'm not saying you have to like it but the DMR with bloom certainly is deeper than previous weapons.
Bloom does not add depth to the DMR. Its primary contribution to the combat loop is to expand the role of chance. You can pace your shots...but there's a chance the other guy might land a headshot by not pacing. Depending on the range, a very good chance. That's not depth, it's imprecision.
 

kylej

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
You guys make it seem like bloom doesn't allow you to hit anything sometimes.

Why am I always on top of the leader boards game after game? Its easy, just pace those shots.

Probably because you whip out that AR like it's your goddamn job while the rest of us have a little too much Halo Honor to use that turd.
 
Blue Ninja said:
BAM, Kat's dead. Still a crappy death scene. "Who needs energy shields?" :lol
Perfect example of how half-assed Noble Team's story was, and one of the primary reasons why I HATE that they switched to having indestructible allies (Arbiter, Sarge, Noble Team) in later games. I've seen Kat shrug off Hunter melees and Wraith mortars, but one needle rifle to the head when the controller's not even in my hands is what kills her? Okay.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
You guys make it seem like bloom doesn't allow you to hit anything sometimes.

Why am I always on top of the leader boards game after game? Its easy, just pace those shots.
Two words: Team kills.
A27 Tawpgun said:
I sorta accepted that the glassing temporarily fried their shields and the death scene was meant to be an unexpected punch in the gut.

But it definitely could have been communicated and executed better.
It's hard to really care about Kat or any of the other Noble members when they all stand around taking massive gunfire and no damage during each level. Listening to Kat say, "Check your fire!" I wanted her to die, lol.
 
A27 Tawpgun said:
I sorta accepted that the glassing temporarily fried their shields and the death scene was meant to be an unexpected punch in the gut.

But it definitely could have been communicated and executed better.
Yeah, that's pretty much my theory. They could've had one of the teammembers exclaim "My shields are gone!" and have Kat explain it, right before she ironically gets shot in the head.

Alas.
 

Gui_PT

Member
If only there was a Covenant sniper rifle, her death wouldn't have been so bad.

I also would have enjoyed if one of the Zealots was given some importance an protagonism. Like have some scenes that show how he's badass elite Elite. Would've had a bigger impact on the death of Noble members, at least the ones that were killed by Zealots.
 
Blue Ninja said:
Yeah, that's pretty much my theory. They could've had one of the teammembers exclaim "My shields are gone!" and have Kat explain it, right before she ironically gets shot in the head.

Alas.
Bungie thought we would know the physics. But we are too stupid. damn. Kind of funny that the game gave me a Lone Wolf feeling. Even it shouldn't be.

Dani said:
Final CEA Reach map reveals. Videos. Halo Bulletin. Sparkast. Can't we have all of that today please?

Come on, make it rain!
1hour! 1HOUR!!!
and 5minutes
 

Homeboyd

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Bloom does not add depth to the DMR. Its primary contribution to the combat loop is to expand the role of chance. You can pace your shots...but there's a chance the other guy might land a headshot by not pacing. Depending on the range, a very good chance. That's not depth, it's imprecision.
Betcha can't hit me.

Auv2h.png
 

kylej

Banned
Man how do you guys even remember the names of the people in Reach. I know Kat because she's a robot chick and got blained out of the blue by a random standard-issue jackal. If Bungie had the jackal ogre twitch after that blain the campain would've been 10x better.
 
kylej said:
Man how do you guys even remember the names of the people in Reach. I know Kat because she's a robot chick and got blained out of the blue by a random standard-issue jackal. If Bungie had the jackal ogre twitch after that blain the campain would've been 10x better.

lol
 
kylej said:
Man how do you guys even remember the names of the people in Reach. I know Kat because she's a robot chick and got blained out of the blue by a random standard-issue jackal. If Bungie had the jackal ogre twitch after that blain the campain would've been 10x better.
It was a Field Marshall. :lol

That's another thing Bungie could've done better. The Field Marshall was basically the "big bad" of Reach, appearing out of reach (no pun intended) in a lot of levels, but when you finally kill him at the end it's just "Oh, whatever."

The Pillar of Autumn. Let's do this.
 

TheOddOne

Member
I would kill to see if Bungie could have pulled the game off with all the 7 characters as orginally planned.

ih_mag7+portraits.jpg


Emile, Carter, Rosenda, Kat, Jun, Thom, and Jorge.

Deputy Moonman said:
haha. i do that to pretty much anyone that I think is playing dirty, and armor lock definitely counts as dirty.
I do that sometimes too, but you went uber crazy on the dude :p
 
Yeah, they should've just scrapped Noble Six and made a story actually about Noble Team. Make us play Carter, he's by far the blandest in the group anyways, and have us command the rest of Noble Team, Republic Commando-style.

Now that would've been awesome.

EDIT: Oh, and for the love of god, give us the ability to switch weapons with the other Noble members. You could do it in ODST, I really don't get why they scrapped it from Reach.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Blue Ninja said:
Yeah, they should've just scrapped Noble Six and made a story actually about Noble Team. Make us play Carter, he's by far the blandest in the group anyways, and have us command the rest of Noble Team, Republic Commando-style.

Now that would've been awesome.

EDIT: Oh, and for the love of god, give us the ability to switch weapons with the other Noble members. You could do it in ODST, I really don't get why they scrapped it from Reach.
Halo Republic Commando style? Oh yeah... That's one big missed oppoturnity.
Spartan-III team RC style, with stealth approach possible (SPI is a camo armor after).
 
One year ago, I was probably either playing nightfall or TotS. Gonna hop on Reach tonight and play 2 campaign levels again. Did anyone actually hopped into matchmaking first?

And only 20 minutes till the bomb drops :D
 

Homeboyd

Member
Tha Robbertster said:
One year ago, I was probably either playing nightfall or TotS. Gonna hop on Reach tonight and play 2 campaign levels again. Did anyone actually hopped into matchmaking first?

And only 20 minutes till the bomb drops :D
I jumped into Campaign first. I managed to snag a copy of Reach on 9/10 and I just couldn't wait to check out the campaign. I'm pretty sure I hopped in some multiplayer before finishing the campaign though.

Also, where is this "bomb" being dropped? Waypoint, Im guessing?
 

Woorloog

Banned
ODST themed Headlong! Fuck yeah!
Now make the game play properly.

At first i thought POA mission screen caps were from Halo 2.
Then i read the text and was disappointed and happy at the same time
 
I'm so pan-camming the shit out of Breakneck.

Also, playthrough finished. 5 and a half hours, give or take. That's about two hours less than my first playthrough.
 
Tha Robbertster said:
One year ago, I was probably either playing nightfall or TotS. Gonna hop on Reach tonight and play 2 campaign levels again. Did anyone actually hopped into matchmaking first?

And only 20 minutes till the bomb drops :D
I started the campaign first. Notifications off, still reeling over the fact that some poor kid at Best Buy sold me the Legendary edition for the regular edition price. That was a good night.
 
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