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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
thezerofire
Banned
Pretty much everyone I've talked to who loved playing Halo CE loved this pistolDani said:
Don't worry, they must've washed their hands somewhere in between working on the reach TU and touching you at Halofest. The problemHypertrooper said:
is that there's no guarantee they're doing it inside their building in between working on the TU and Halo 4. All it takes is one sloppy intern walking around from station to station all careless. Dammit.
Hitmonchan107
Member
Is anyone else going to the Orlando event?Tashi0106 said:
xxjuicesxx
Member
kylej said:
Worktime, shoulda got on sooner BK. Work 330-Midnight EST now. I play from like 10am-ish to 2ish now. Maybe some Midnight donging.
Steelyuhas
Member
Dani said:
Each Halo game has it's average and potential kill times that the balance is largely based around. The precision weapon in the sequels to Halo was nerfed because Bungie wanted a slower game and it was nerfed because aim assist and bullet magnetism are now jacked through the roof, which the lack off made the pistol in CE such a good weapon.
You think that CE multiplayer would have been good with it being a 6sk? It would have been pretty bad imo. Everything about CE multiplayer is much faster than its sequels, so of course it had a precision weapon that could kill faster.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Dani said:
I said it made Halo CE a fantastic game. It would have been a good game without it, but having it just made it better.
Well Bungie clearly didnt want the Halo 1 pistol coming back to Halo 2, but they clearly had to cater for the demographic that loved the Halo 1 pistol otherwise the Halo 2 BR probably wouldnt exist.
If the Halo 2 BR didnt exist the game would have been pretty different. I personally loved Halo before I discovered the Pistol/ BR but I really dont think it would have addicted me JUST as much if the only precision weapon was a sniper.
As for Halo being great despite the Pistol, I totally disagree, I think that Halo 1 was a totally different experience, and as it was upto the player to basically choose whatever settings he wanted. The Pistol never needed to be in any matches it wasnt welcome in. I think though that a fair amount of people wanted it included in theyre lobbys because it added to the game for them. We didnt have matchmaking back then so nothing was forced on us, it got a following because it deserved it.
I really dont think I would have played as much Halo CE if the only way to play with precision weapons was to have Snipers lobbies.
I also disagree with your logic that it wouldnt have been nerfed if it was perfect. Bloom wouldnt exist if Bungie had that kind of omnicient knowledge on game design lol. Just because Bungie took the decision to nerf the precision weapon gameplay doesnt mean that it was because the precision weapons made the gameplay less fun.
I loved Halo CE before I discovered the pistol. In fact, one of our colleagues was actually making the game suck by not revelaing the "secret" of the pistol. And this was true for LOTS of people (loving it before knowing how to use pistol properly) so I reject the idea that it had any massive impact on an already excellent game. Certain levels changed noticably, for sure, but it was still all there, IMO. Pistol or no pistol.
Devolution
Member
Dani said:
I'm going to disagree here. The pistol was great as was the balance in h1 weaponry but it seemed like it wasn't the direction the devs wanted their game to take, c'est la vie.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Contrarily, one of the magical moments I had with playing Halo CE for the first time was that it subverted the general FPS thing of pistols being fodder weaponry. I didn't even have an Xbox at the time, but the sheer fun of using that pistol was what initially imprinted the game in my mind. I had a real thing for power pistols coming off of Deus Ex at the time beating the game with a fully modded pistol, extra clips, scopes, laser sighting, the works and loved that Halo pretty much handed me one of those from the start. I also loved the animation for taking it out and reloading, and that chrome finish.OuterWorldVoice said:
Oh, and Warthogs. And On a Pale Horse at that bridge with sleeping Grunts on Assault on the Control Room too. The pistol was really important though.
kylej said:
I am saying it had a significant impact, but it didn't turn a good game into a great game. I, and everyone I knew was ABSOLUTELY having a blast with Halo CE long before figuring out the pistol. In fact I would argue that most of the game's very high scores were given before people made that discovery. And as I noted, it matters way more on say, Hang Em High than it does on Blood Gulch.
In summary, YOU'RE ABSURD.
ncsuDuncan
Member
CE multiplayer became more painful once I discovered the true power of that fully operational pistol...
because my friends had to resort to real-life tactics to beat me, like punching my arm or covering my eyes.
I miss those LANs. Setting one up for next month with my 8 best friends from high school, can't wait.
because my friends had to resort to real-life tactics to beat me, like punching my arm or covering my eyes.
I miss those LANs. Setting one up for next month with my 8 best friends from high school, can't wait.
Devolution
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
What was there to figure out beyond headshotting people?
Actually let's ask it this way, how many people do any one of us talk to about Halo 1, and it's inevitable the pistol is brought up? Does any other weapon get this praise?
Devolution
Member
kylej said:
To be fair I'm not sure how well it would be integrated into Reach.
Also this isn't directed at Frankie but I often have to wonder how much a developer mindset (or stubbornness) gets in the way of realizing that some stuff works in a different unintended but not bad way. If Halo 1 was a fluke, it was a great fluke, and the fact that Bungie felt the need to rectify it just boggles my mind sometimes.
Dani said:
The pistol made CE a competetive game. Imagine if the pistol had not existed. Only headshot weapon would have been the sniper.
However, they likely didn't intend for it to become so powerful. But Halo is a precision based game. We need a starting headshot capable weapon.
Syracuse022
Member
I would have let the first paragraph slide because it keeps touch with the fact that people like to play Halo in many different ways and for many different reasons, but the second paragraph is just ignorant. You blatantly ignore the fact that the weapon is still widely praised in spite of the fact that it got nerfed to hell and unceremoniously replaced. If the changes to the sandbox were improvements, why are so many so eager to defend that game's design decisions above the direction Bungie went with all others? See the logical circle forming? We could do this all day.Dani said:
What design did you settle on? Did that thread ever settle itself into something useful?Tashi0106 said:
edit:
This. Reminds me of Michael Scott: "Well, if it was a mistake it was a wonderful mistake."Devolution said:
Steelyuhas
Member
Okay so Pistol comes back for Halo 4, but is a 4sk.
Ship it.
Ship it.
The Real Napsta
Member
Stop being such a sad-sack.reggie said:
bobs...onGaf
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Sure. I agree as to be honest in Halo 1 I only played CTF on Blood Gulch/ Sniper games and warthog battles for the first year or so There was a point where I only used to use the Banshee. I didnt really discover the Pistol myself till quite late to be honest.
That said is it fair to say that the Halo 2 BR wouldnt exist without the Halo 1 pistol being overpowered? I somehow doubt Bungie would have felt the need to put in a weapon like that if they didnt have an audiance to please.
Halo would be pretty different if the H1 Pistol didn't accidently get buffed and not in a good way. The effects may not have been felt until Halo 2, but I think its fair to say Halo 2 without a BR would be a completely different experience. Would it be as popular?
Hell my point is that the Pistol being accidently buffed isnt a bad thing. Fyrewulff was talking about the buff as if it was a bad thing, at worst on Halo CE you could just play games without it. It certainly wasnt a bad thing.
Rickenslacker
Banned
And each shot is explosive. Explosions are in.Steelyuhas said:
Devolution
Member
reggie said:
Fucked up the sandbox? I saw people use every weapon on a map in CE. I did not see this as much in any following sequels, especially when some weapons were just rendered useless like the Plasma Rifle.
Devin Olsen
Member
This is very much an opinion, so please do not state it as a fact.Dani said:
Halo:CE multi-player was as close to perfection as Halo has ever come. I enjoyed it immensely and have put countless hours into it. Every single time I go back and play CE MP I am reminded how bad the rest of the Halo games are in comparison. For me the Pistol IS a main reason why I love the game so much. It is balanced perfectly and makes the game an incredible amount of fun. Perhaps for those less skilled players the Pistol was not all that great, but please do not try and tell me that Halo:CE MP is good 'despite' the Pistol.
Steelyuhas
Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
So rifle is better in every way?
I don't see the point in having both guns. Pick one and go with it. No reason to have a hundred overlapping weapons.
And come on, three kills per clip, two is just silly.
Devin Olsen said:
Exactly my thoughts.
reggie said:
I don't think it broke the sandbox. In fact, my main problem with it only lasted about two weeks (until we got used to it) - which was lack of feedback - and that is something that would have sucked in non-LAN scenarios. Sometimes you'd just sort of drop dead on Blood Gulch without knowing why. You could still take out a pistol weilder with weapons, vehicles and grenades though. Now there's no doubt it became the go-to weapon, but it's not like it was used at the exclusion of all other weapons, especially in objective games. I do miss indestruictible Scorpion with easy headshot cockpit though. I liked driving it and I liked stopping it and stealing it.
So I am not in the "it ruined Halo camp" but I am also not in the "It's the only good weapon" camp.
Devolution said:
having a development team with talented coders who can create a functioning FPS engine doesn't mean any members of that team have insight into the nuances of high-level FPS or care about it
thankfully it seems like 343 is fairly self-aware about some design decisions so maybe they can make a decent game (you know like beyond weird design philosophy like "let's balance this around things people would assert at the absolute minimum level of proficiency required to make something happen on the screen in the game")
bobs...onGaf
Member
Devolution said:
I think I had the best of both worlds in that I can go on Halo and have a blast in a hog/ banshee/ random vehicle, have fun sniping, have fun going for the objective and also have fun using precision weapons.
I get the feeling some people see a divide between the precision weapon gameplay and the rest of the gameplay, I think it compliments it more than detracts. Then again even in games where I just wanted to fly around in a Banshee the pistol didnt bother me (wheras the DMR in Reach sure does!)
I had SO much fun before I used the pistol just playing insane ctf games on Death Island where people would literally be fighting with Hog's Banshees and Tanks. Of course with people on the ground sniping and so on. For some reason that gameplay has never been as good in the sequels for me so I fall back on the tighter arena gameplay that comes with the precision weapons. Even though I enjoyed Halo 1 without ever feeling the power of the Pistol in many of my games. If that weapon wasnt the precursor to the BR then I doubt Halo 2 and 3 would have kept me interested.
Rickenslacker said:
THIS.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Bring back CE's indestructible vehicle tug of war in Halo 4 please. I loved that vehicles were always in play in CE.OuterWorldVoice said:
Now, sure. But at the time? No in my experience. I worked for a guy who had his house wired to support Halo LANs, and we talked Halo daily. I particiapted in a number of LANs, and it was never, ever all about the pistol. I was known for pitch-perfect frag placement and AR usage (shocker). The Plasma Rifle had the stun effect, which was huge on small maps. The pistol was not the focus; it was mostly used on larger maps (Blood Gulch).Devolution said:
One guy in our group was a pro with the Needler. Like, he went through entire games using nothing but the Needler, and he demolished people. I hated that guy.
thezerofire
Banned
This is exactly it. Summed it up perfectly. Played CE 1v1 with my roommate yesterday and it was awesome, you could get kills with every weapon on the maps. The only problem is you didn't really know how much damage you were doing and how much damage you were being dealt.OuterWorldVoice said:
bobs...onGaf
Member
Just to clarify, personally I dont think it was the only good weapon but what it did provide was a different way to play the game. Sure I had my fun with the rest of the sandbox, but ultimately it turned out that the precision weapon stuff was what I enjoyed most. Im a sucker for seeing a Spartan do a twirl after a headshot.
So the Pistol buff wasnt such a bad thing. (In my opinion)
Hypertrooper
Member
Today I got the new version of the Halo Encyclopedia. The book is massive and it has many awesome arts. (
) I haven't read any text yet, but I guess if I start the Forerunner stuff, I'm going to re-read Cryptum again.
Other stuff: Damn. Amazon still hasn't the Grunt Funreal skull and Master Chief Avatar costume as a pre-order bonus. I hope they will get it. I really want the english version of Anniversary at day-1, but I want the pre-order stuff, too.
I even didn't see them before.
Other stuff: Damn. Amazon still hasn't the Grunt Funreal skull and Master Chief Avatar costume as a pre-order bonus. I hope they will get it. I really want the english version of Anniversary at day-1, but I want the pre-order stuff, too.
Devolution
Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
It's not the only good weapon, it's probably the best starting weapon (but this doesn't mean it could be thrown in h2/h3/reach and work fine). And it forced a higher skill on every other weapon used. When people are just running around with power weapons, that isn't a bad thing at all. But the other weapons were by no means terrible or useless. The p rifle would stun people, the p pistol would take shields down, etc etc. Every weapon had a different purpose but could kill people with the pistol from a distance or up close.
H2? Meh. h3? Meh. Reach? lol.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Striker said:
Yes please.
Wow, I missed this thread http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?23825-The-Halo-PC-Engine
It's really cool to see 343 looking at the amazing community talent that still exists. I hope what they are able to bring to the table is considered by both 343 and Bungie in their community tools for their next games.
It's really cool to see 343 looking at the amazing community talent that still exists. I hope what they are able to bring to the table is considered by both 343 and Bungie in their community tools for their next games.
Halo CE is great because the game engine is so fantastic, the player movement and player aiming is the smoothest of any console shooter, still to this day. That game engine is perfect.
Halo CE plays amazing regardless of the Pistol, but the Pistol adds a huge layer of depth and competitiveness to the multiplayer. Without it, Rockets, Sniper and Grenades would be the most overpowered things ever, and people would have got pissed off when players got really good at abusing that fact. The Pistol was the equalizer, good in almost all situations, and allowing players to fight off spawn against anyone, outside maybe a totally stacked player (OS/Camo+Rockets).
At the same time the Pistol is a high skill based and challenging weapon to use, but very rewarding if you were good. The kill times in Halo CE are very fast, everything (beside Needler) can kill you super quick in the right situation, so if the Pistol was a 6sk it would be woefully underpowered, and Halo CE would be some kind of Power weapon/Power up, nade spam (Halo CE has more nade spam than any Halo game as is) with Pistol team shooting. This sounds familiar to subsequent Halo games MP design, which almost all agree is inferior to Halo CE's design.
Halo CE would have still been fun with a 6sk Pistol, because the game is just fun to play, the game engine is what makes it fun, not the damage tables on a weapon. That just made it a top-tier competitively viable, incredibly deep and balanced MP experience.
Halo CE plays amazing regardless of the Pistol, but the Pistol adds a huge layer of depth and competitiveness to the multiplayer. Without it, Rockets, Sniper and Grenades would be the most overpowered things ever, and people would have got pissed off when players got really good at abusing that fact. The Pistol was the equalizer, good in almost all situations, and allowing players to fight off spawn against anyone, outside maybe a totally stacked player (OS/Camo+Rockets).
At the same time the Pistol is a high skill based and challenging weapon to use, but very rewarding if you were good. The kill times in Halo CE are very fast, everything (beside Needler) can kill you super quick in the right situation, so if the Pistol was a 6sk it would be woefully underpowered, and Halo CE would be some kind of Power weapon/Power up, nade spam (Halo CE has more nade spam than any Halo game as is) with Pistol team shooting. This sounds familiar to subsequent Halo games MP design, which almost all agree is inferior to Halo CE's design.
Halo CE would have still been fun with a 6sk Pistol, because the game is just fun to play, the game engine is what makes it fun, not the damage tables on a weapon. That just made it a top-tier competitively viable, incredibly deep and balanced MP experience.
Steelyuhas
Member
Devolution said:
People seem to think of the Pistol by picturing it just thrown into H2, H3, or Reach. The CE pistol was nearly perfect, for CE. That sandbox was built around a balance that worked excellently with that as the starting weapon. Does that mean it would work well just thrown into another Halo game? Not necessarily, but that doesn't diminish the excellence of the pistol at all, it was just a game made for a certain game.
Of course, that's exactly what 343 is going to do with the "CE Magnum" in Anniversary gametypes lol, which I am in no way upset about.