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[Devolution]

Bloom does work for longer ranges though, which is why even I dread a ZBDMR for big maps.

I've tortured GAFFERs in customs with two for shits and giggles. One on hemorrhage and one on a remake of relic. Both were incredibly awful.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

This argument is spiraling away from where it started. I think a utility weapon is necessary, and I think the DMR was a great utility weapon, and to a lesser extent so was the pistol (it was great in the beta).

My issue, is that I think the success of the DMR and pistol was utility weapons in Reach was due in large part to reticule bloom. That helped ensure that they were incredibly effective for their role in the sandbox, and much less effective when taken out of that role. Without bloom, there is nothing to stop somebody from turning the DMR into an effective close-range weapon by spamming the trigger, or a devastating long-range weapon by piling on shots at range without having to wait for the bloom to reset.

I have no problem with utility weapons. When that weapon becomes to versatile, the game gets really fucking boring.

I think most of my grievances stem from power weapons versus everything else, and the inadequacy to defend yourself against multiple people. The kill times are slower, making it harder to counter power weapons and a shortage of players. But for the most part, I enjoy using the DMR, the needle rifle and pistol as is. But there are so many power weapons in each map and they spawn too often. It's not uncommon to see people with 10-12 sword/shotgun/hammer kills a game in matchmaking, or 6-8 rocket/sniper kills per game. That just seems a bit too high. If each map saw a reduction in the power weapons that spawn and their frequency, it would level things out quite a bit.

If for whatever reason I had the power to make any changes in the game that I wanted (assuming I knew magic), I'd increase the pistol clip, tone the AR down just a hair in power, and make it so each map only had one distance power weapon like the sniper rifle/rocket launcher/grenade launcher, and one CQC power weapon like the shotgun/sword/hammer; and I'd reduce their spawn frequency. Last, the only armor ability i'd allow would be sprint... and maaayybe the jetpack. But probably not.

That would be close to ideal settings for me. I'd deal with bloom the way it is or slightly reduce it, but maybe not completely remove it. Then i'd make a playlist where it was able to match you against teams based upon your own make up. Going in solo? Then you play against all random players. Going in with a friend? Then it's a 4v4 game with pairs of players together. 3 people? Then you only ever play 3v3 games against other groups of 3. And finally, groups of 4 players would play other groups of 4 players. Guests would be in a completely separate playlist, with the option of non guest people jumping in at their own discretion.

EDIT: In other news, I played my first games with OuterWorldVoice, tonight. Success!

 

[Rickenslacker]

I've tortured GAFFERs in customs with two for shits and giggles. One on hemorrhage and one on a remake of relic. Both were incredibly awful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4FQoznrVwU#t=2m12s

 

[Booshka]

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23870793&player=Booshka

This clip showcases what pretty much was impossible with bloom, outside of getting lucky with spam. I am able to out-shoot two people with a good flank, clever positioning, and good shots. Download to watch or someone render it if you'd like.

 

[Devolution]

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23870793&player=Booshka

This clip showcases what pretty much was impossible with bloom, outside of getting lucky with spam. I am able to out-shoot two people with a good flank, clever positioning, and good shots. Download to watch or someone render it if you'd like.

Imagine if shields came up quicker too, how much damage you could do.

 

[thezerofire]

Were there any additional changes made today? I was too busy watching my home team get eliminated from the wild card race to play

 

[The Antitype]

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=23870793&player=Booshka

This clip showcases what pretty much was impossible with bloom, outside of getting lucky with spam. I am able to out-shoot two people with a good flank, clever positioning, and good shots. Download to watch or someone render it if you'd like.

I was always under the impression that Halo: Reach was DESIGNED to be a more team-oriented game, that the motivation for many of the mechanics was to make it difficult for single players to multiple opponents.

I don't know if that's true or just an unintended consequence, but my buddies and I were DEFINITELY communicating and team-shooting a lot more in Reach than any of the previous Halo titles.

 

[Booshka]

Every Halo game has teamwork, just different forms, what I did right there was teamwork. I flanked two opponents that were pushing my teammates and was able to kill them. Teamshooting is a pretty simple form of teamwork actually, it's just about looking where your teammates are and shooting together.

Someone posted a huge wall of text earlier how teamwork in Halo CE was much harder because of controlling and dictating spawns (it was not random in 2v2) was a necessity to win against good players. Using nades to get power ups or weapons and controlling the map flow. In subsequent Halo games it is easier to just push together and shoot together. The necessity for clever play like in Halo CE is gone in later Halo games, because the individual's damage output is marginalized.

 

[The Antitype]

Every Halo game has teamwork, just different forms, what I did right there was teamwork. I flanked two opponents that were pushing my teammates and was able to kill them. Teamshooting is a pretty simple form of teamwork actually, it's just about looking where your teammates are and shooting together.

Someone posted a huge wall of text earlier how teamwork in Halo CE was much harder because of controlling and dictating spawns (it was not random in 2v2) was a necessity to win against good players. Using nades to get power ups or weapons and controlling the map flow. In subsequent Halo games it is easier to just push together and shoot together. The necessity for clever play like in Halo CE is gone in later Halo games, because the individual's damage output is marginalized.

Fair enough.

Reach just really seems to push players to stick together, cause it seems really difficult for one guy to take down even two if the two guys know he's there and where he's coming from.

I wonder what it would be like if Reach had a marking system, a la BF or GoW3. Like, if you see someone and mark them so they're always visible on the other player's screen for a short time. And then, maybe the marker would be color coded, so all your teammates would know exactly what AA to expect.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Players are together as long as they can get shots on the other team from where they are.

You also have to play with selflessness. You need a teammate to pop out get shots on and then have him backup and you need to push out after him with full shields. Most good teams won't even come close to death if they pull that off well enough. Sure you might not get kills and just get assists but thats the way to keep your score/deaths down. Don't waste time and camp though thats wasted shots you could put out.

Also bait/stealing focus is another key aspect of teamwork. Kids are stupid especially kids who play Halo.

When I jetpack up to the big rock on Asylum and three of their teammates turn around and look up to shoot at me that is just easy kills if our team is on their car and ring two their jump up door, someone should also be plasma pistol and ring 3. Spreading your team out forces them to focus on one player if they want a kill. Then your team can just shoot enemies like fish in a barrel.

Thats what all those good teams do like jetpack warriors on Uncaged. They always have crossfire because they spread out get hawk positions and teamshot with communication.

 

[The Antitype]

Players are together as long as they can get shots on the other team from where they are.

You also have to play with selflessness. You need a teammate to pop out get shots on and then have him backup and you need to push out after him with full shields. Most good teams won't even come close to death if they pull that off well enough. Sure you might not get kills and just get assists but thats the way to keep your score/deaths down. Don't waste time and camp though thats wasted shots you could put out.

Also bait/stealing focus is another key aspect of teamwork. Kids are stupid especially kids who play Halo.

When I jetpack up to the big rock on Asylum and three of their teammates turn around and look up to shoot at me that is just easy kills if our team is on their car and ring two their jump up door, someone should also be plasma pistol and ring 3. Spreading your team out forces them to focus on one player if they want a kill. Then your team can just shoot enemies like fish in a barrel.

Thats what all those good teams do like jetpack warriors on Uncaged. They always have crossfire because they spread out get hawk positions and teamshot with communication.

Well, yeah, I didn't mean joined at the hip. Just close enough to provide support for each other if need be.

 

[Booshka]

Fair enough.

Reach just really seems to push players to stick together, cause it seems really difficult for one guy to take down even two if the two guys know he's there and where he's coming from.

I wonder what it would be like if Reach had a marking system, a la BF or GoW3. Like, if you see someone and mark them so they're always visible on the other player's screen for a short time. And then, maybe the marker would be color coded, so all your teammates would know exactly what AA to expect.

Halo 3 was like that too, it was always about being with your teammates and pushing together. In H2 it was easier to set up because of the map design, the BR was a formidable weapon, and the power weapon spawns could be manipulated by holding on to them until your team was in a position to push out for the new spawn.

As for a callout system, I don't know if spotting would go over well, maybe if it was instant, but if it tracked a player's location for more than a few seconds, it would be cheap. I prefer just a system that calls out the area they were last seen in, you would have to see them and then press a button on the controller. It's not exact, just how a players callout usually wouldn't be, but it makes it easier on players that aren't used to communicating like that. AKA Shadowrun.

 

[Devolution]

I'll never understand the push for "team play" in Reach. Team play in Halo has always been optimal. Reach reduced down individual skill, which made it much harder for people to solo queue or take on two mediocre people at the same time. That's bad game design.

 

[The Antitype]

I'll never understand the push for "team play" in Reach. Team play in Halo has always been optimal. Reach reduced down individual skill, which made it much harder for people to solo queue or take on two mediocre people at the same time. That's bad game design.

*shrugs*

Maybe it was just a design decision. Maybe they just had a set of objectives for how they wanted Reach to play as an evolution of the Halo franchise, and felt like teamwork and communication should play a larger, less 'optional' role.

It's still optional, going solo is just likely to earn the same level of success as playing with a tight unit.

So it's a matter of individual aiming/strafing skill vs. teamwork, and in this case, Bungie decided that teamwork should win. Take multiple skilled players against multiple mediocre players, and the skilled players win. As it should be.

Neither is wrong. It's just a matter of the direction the devs decided to go.

 

[Devolution]

*shrugs*

Maybe it was just a design decision. Maybe they just had a set of objectives for how they wanted Reach to play as an evolution of the Halo franchise, and felt like teamwork and communication should play a larger, less 'optional' role.

It's still optional, going solo is just likely to earn the same level of success as playing with a tight unit.

So it's a matter of individual aiming/strafing skill vs. teamwork, and in this case, Bungie decided that teamwork should win. Take multiple skilled players against multiple mediocre players, and the skilled players win. As it should be.

Neither is wrong. It's just a matter of the direction the devs decided to go.

Good teamwork has always won. Individual skill could more often than not trump bad teams and bad players. For Reach they decided that wasn't good enough, knowing full well that people solo queue in their game, and that guests were in most playlists. I consider that wrong.

 

[The Antitype]

Good teamwork has always won. Individual skill could more often than not trump bad teams and bad players. For Reach they decided that wasn't good enough, knowing full well that people solo queue in their game, and that guests were in most playlists. I consider that wrong.

I wouldn't consider myself anything more than a pretty good player, and I've definitely single-handedly won matches with a team of randoms that all went negative.

It's still possible for better players to single-handedly beat teams, the skill gap just has to be larger than it was in Halo 3.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I wouldn't consider myself anything more than a pretty good player, and I've definitely single-handedly won matches with a team of randoms that all went negative.

It's still possible for better players to single-handedly beat teams, the skill gap just has to be larger than it was in Halo 3.

The skill gap in Halo 3 was not that large either. It was a conscious design decision by Bungie to nerf the individual player in Halo 3 and Reach compared to Halo 2 and CE (especially compared to CE). Some of us like that design, others of us don't (I don't).

 

[Devolution]

I wouldn't consider myself anything more than a pretty good player, and I've definitely single-handedly won matches with a team of randoms that all went negative.

It's still possible for better players to single-handedly beat teams, the skill gap just has to be larger than it was in Halo 3.

And yet h2 with a more varied range of skill had less quitters (modding/glitching not withstanding) and better overall trueskill matching.

The skill gap in Halo 3 was not that large either. It was a conscious design decision by Bungie to nerf the individual player in Halo 3 and Reach compared to Halo 2 and CE (especially compared to CE). Some of us like that design, others of us don't (I don't).

I don't like it because it's based upon this idea that individual skill (unless you're pro) shouldn't trump two mediocre players. Which, frankly, I have a big problem with. I'm not talking like the two guests who are idiots either. I'm talking squishing the middle rungs of the skill gap together, so that people you know you can beat, you're suddenly trading kills with. It's bothersome.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

So one thing I have issues with while playing Halo is accidentally clicking the sticks on my controller during combat. I did it tonight multiple times and unintentionally zoomed in when trying to do close quarters combat. It's awful. I happened to look into the controller settings and saw something I'd never seen before: clench protection... /Mind Blown

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't like it because it's based upon this idea that individual skill (unless you're pro) shouldn't trump two mediocre players. Which, frankly, I have a big problem with. I'm not talking like the two guests who are idiots either. I'm talking squishing the middle rungs of the skill gap together, so that people you know you can beat, you're suddenly trading kills with. It's bothersome.

Yeah, that's what the nerfing the individual player does the most I think, squash down the skill gap for the middle of the road players making a large portion of the player base that is solid at the game, but they are no pro, pretty much a wash in their individual skill at the game.

So one thing I have issues with while playing Halo is accidentally clicking the sticks on my controller during combat. I did it tonight multiple times tonight and unintentionally zoomed in when trying to do close quarters combat. It's awful. I happened to look into the controller settings and saw something I'd never seen before: clench protection... /Mind Blown

Lol, I was just about to say clench protection when I started reading your post.

 

[monome]

Nope. It is the limited edition of the book. (Comes with 4 lithographs) The publisher is UK-based and I was very suprised to get a month early.
The limited edition is still available.

much appreciated!

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Lol, I was just about to say clench protection when I started reading your post.

I'm not a very astute person, lol.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Yep, you broke my heart 2 times in a row :lol

Spoiler

I added you

I'M SO SORRY BABY PLEASE FORGIVE ME.

 

[Slightly Live]

And yet h2 with a more varied range of skill had less quitters (modding/glitching not withstanding) and better overall trueskill matching.

Apart from quitters, that's complete bullcrap. Talk about putting something on a pedestal.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I'm watching the movie "Alien" while at work with most of the office lights turned off. The world needs more alien horror movies in my opinion. "Prometheus" better be good next year, but I don't have a lot of confidence in it, seeing how the last good alien movie was "Aliens" in 1986. What have we gotten since then?

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Don't really see how Dedis would help with cross-Atlantic play...

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Blinding]

Don't really see how Dedis would help with cross-Atlantic play...

You stick dedis on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic, obviously.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Who said anything about cross-Atlantic play?

I really want to see H4 with dedis, especially considering how international HaloGAF is.

Especially considering how much of HaloGAF plays cross-Atlanticly.

You stick dedis on a boat in the middle of the Atlantic, obviously.

Would feel happier about paying for Gold in that case =P.

 

[TheOddOne]

Halo 4 departure 'hasn't affected team morale,' insists 343

Microsoft studio 343 Industries has insisted the morale of its Halo 4 development team hasn't been affected by the high-profile departure of creative director Ryan Payton.

The ex-Metal Gear Solid 4 producer, who was working on narrative design for Halo 4, confirmed his exit from 343 earlier this month, putting his decision down to not being "creatively excited" by the project anymore.

Speaking to CVG's TGS foot soldiers following Payton's exit, 343's franchise development director Frank O'Connor claimed most Halo 4 staffers "probably wouldn't know what he was actually doing on the game" anyway.

"I'm not really going to get into that conversation because Ryan's a friend of mine and he's nearby, but Ryan hasn't been the creative director on Halo for more than fifteen months and he was doing something different in the game when we left," O'Conner explained.

"He was working on the narrative design on the game. I absolutely get that in some ways he was making a game with cinematics and for want of a better term - fairly conventional storytelling.

"Ryan comes from a Japanese gaming background; he worked on Metal Gear, obviously, and he chose a fairly surreal blend of storytelling and action. I think he wanted to do something much more...

"I don't want to speak for him, that's so unfair, but definitely coming from his Japanese narrative background, the narrative design stuff that he was doing with Halo was very sort of European-American style of conventional narrative story-telling," he added.

"I can absolutely see why he wouldn't find that challenging and innovative. I wish him well. He wasn't working on game design at all."

Asked if the exit affected team moral, O'Conner said: "Not really. I mean Ryan was reporting to a guy called Armando Troisi from Bioware, who was heading up our design. We valued Ryan's input but he hasn't been leading the project for more than fifteen months so it didn't affect us at all.

"Ryan had actually been gone for quite some time before that news story showed up, so it was kind of a surprise for us that it actually came up.

"If you ask a lot of the team they probably wouldn't know what he was actually doing on the game, so that hasn't been a negative for the team or the studio. It was just the noise from the story has been a little bit unexpected."

O'Conner concluded: "He was one of the only people that people knew was working on the game, period. But it would be like if I left the studio! They would get on just fine if I left tomorrow, but it would be big news because I'm one of the main names associated with it. Yeah they know what they're doing."

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Very glad that Frankie came out and did an interview about it.

Still, I <3 Payton a lot, really want to see his impact on the game.

I think about Halo 4 a lot, but purely in terms of
-Will it live up to my expectations? My expectations aren't nailed down.
-Will it play it safe and be mechanically too similar to H3/Reach? Probably.

 

[TheOddOne]

Suprised that Armando Troisi has been working a while at 343. I got the impression (and his linkedin profile) that he was newly hired.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Suprised that Armando Troisi has been working a while at 343. I got the impression (and his linkedin profile) that he was newly hired.

Thought the same thing.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Very glad that Frankie came out and did an interview about it.

Still, I <3 Payton a lot, really want to see his impact on the game.

I think about Halo 4 a lot, but purely in terms of
-Will it live up to my expectations? My expectations aren't nailed down.
-Will it play it safe and be mechanically too similar to H3/Reach? Probably.

The Halo 4 panel convinced me, that Halo 4 is going to be amazing. The team I met at HaloFest is incredible. They know, what they are doing. They know: One mistake and they will be hanged by us. The Art trailer showed me big exploration-friendly areas and still something mysterious. Both elements that make Halo: CE's campaign the best. Give me now Halo 2-cinematic like cutscene and Halo 4 is going to be the best Halo.

Please give me a gameplay glimpse at the Spike VGA's. Please.

 

[Tawpgun]

Whatever design choice they make in Halo 4, as long as I have a CONSISTENT, faster kill time than DMR, hitscan, scoped, precision weapon, I should be happy.

CE Pistol was great. It was a bit OP, but CE also had the strongest non-utility weapons in the entire sandbox.

H2 BR was fine, but if you mastered the button combos it became a monster. Personally, I liked the idea of button combos. It separated the men from the boys. And keep in mind the only one I could pull off consistently was BXB. So it's not like I was a master at these things and want them back so I can dong harder. It's no secret why H2 MLG was, imo, the most fun to watch.

H3 BR was pretty balanced but it lacked consistency with a sloppy netcode and the spread on it....

DMR kills very slow compared to the others, and while you can control your own consistency, you can't control what your enemy is doing, so they can end up winning on a lucky spam while you tried to pace accordingly and lost. Terrible, Terrible, Terrible.

Add that to its absurd range (the CE pistol and H2 BR were not this effective at long range) and its ability to wreck vehicles (more of a problem with vehicles than the DMR itself...) and you just have a poorly designed weapon that is too effective long range and really sloppy mid-close.

 

[TheOddOne]

Please give me a gameplay glimpse at the Spike VGA's. Please.

Wasn't it last year that Frankie was at the Spike VGA's saying "the story of Halo will continue" (or something like that)? Yeah, its pretty much guaranteed we will get something this year.

 

[Tashi]

I am definitely a fan of Ryan Payton. I loved the Kojima Report podcast. Honestly though, what does he do? I feel like his name is bigger than his position. When I heard he joined 343, I thought, "oh cool, awesome podcasts on the way" idk

 

[Homeboyd]

Finally got the silver commendation for Crack Shot and closing in on getting the gold commendation for One Shot

As for how many kills are needed to get Crack Shot gold......fuck that

I wish 343 had the ability to go back and retroactively change commendation levels and payouts. Some

Spoiler

almost all

of them are laughable when you see what it takes to get to the next level... and then the payouts. I know, if you're playing for credits, you're doing it wrong. That's not the point.. if you're going to use this system, make it somewhat worthwhite, because it certainly doesn't tell you what kind of a player you are like originally intended.

 

[PooBone]

Halo 4 departure 'hasn't affected team morale,' insists 343

Good read, and pretty much exactly what I expected. If you think about MGS4's story and the way it was presented, and then you consider that in a Halo game... it can certainly raise some eyebrows. But Frankie hit the nail on the head. He's one guy on a huge team.

 

[heckfu]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY HYPERTROOPER!

 

[erpg]

Halo 4 departure 'hasn't affected team morale,' insists 343

Wow, reading that, Halo 4 departure boosts my morale.

 

[kylej]

"Ryan comes from a Japanese gaming background; he worked on Metal Gear, obviously, and he chose a fairly surreal blend of storytelling and action. I think he wanted to do something much more...

A surreal blend of storytelling and action sounds so much more exciting than what I know the game will turn into. You're Master Chief again! Here's a blue chick with big tits talking in your head. Hope you still find grunts and elites fun to play against!!!

 

[PooBone]

This is a hell of a good read with lots of speculation about the past of the forerunners/precursors/flood, and what we could be facing in Halo 4.

Lots of Cryptum spoilers in here: http://www.forwarduntodawn.com/rock-metal-and-time/

Also, kylej, STFU.

 

[Tashi]

A surreal blend of storytelling and action sounds so much more exciting than what I know the game will turn into. You're Master Chief again! Here's a blue chick with big tits talking in your head. Hope you still find grunts and elites fun to play against!!!

Easier said than done.

 

[Hypertrooper]

This is a hell of a good read with lots of speculation about the past of the forerunners/precursors/flood, and what we could be facing in Halo 4.

Lots of Cryptum spoilers in here: http://www.forwarduntodawn.com/rock-metal-and-time/

Also, kylej, STFU.

I haven't read the article yet, but I want to add something: Postmortem is an amazing guy. His discussion with Levi and Grim IV was interesting and fascinating at the HaloFest entrance.

 

[TheOddOne]

This is a hell of a good read with lots of speculation about the past of the forerunners/precursors/flood, and what we could be facing in Halo 4.

Lots of Cryptum spoilers in here: http://www.forwarduntodawn.com/rock-metal-and-time/

Will read, love this stuff.

 

[kylej]

Also, kylej, STFU.

I can't argue with someone who actually reads stories about the Halo universe.

If fighting wise-cracking grunts, various colored elites, and brutes while Cortana talks to in your ear, and you eventually have to drive a warthog around some war-torn earthy battlefield still sounds fresh and exciting, more power to you.

 

[eeblogue]

I know this has already been posted but I feel it’s relevant considering the chat over the past few pages.

@KillaKC and community: How to make a Halo game

 

[daedalius]

I need to finish the book about Onyx and pick up Cryptum, this discussion is getting far too interesting to pass by.

Was getting angry at bloom last night, looking forward to the TU and Anniversary edition.