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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
DiabolicalBagel
Member
I welcome you over here to try it for yourself, Nutter.Nutter said:
Things like this:
mean hitscan is my friend.
Guys, if a weapon is hitscan, it travels instantaneously. If I remember correctly, the sniper takes two frames to travel across Sandtrap. Is it realistic that you could move away in one frame? No. But it isn't a hitscan, which is the important distinction.
And the spartan laser travels further than most maps in one frame. Check it on the campaign missions, with larger maps. Hitscan is instantaneous; it finds out where it will hit, be it an enemy, a wall, or the skybox, as the trigger pulls. Halo 3 weapons don't do that, they collide when they collide, not when the trigger is pulled.
And the spartan laser travels further than most maps in one frame. Check it on the campaign missions, with larger maps. Hitscan is instantaneous; it finds out where it will hit, be it an enemy, a wall, or the skybox, as the trigger pulls. Halo 3 weapons don't do that, they collide when they collide, not when the trigger is pulled.
dilatedmuscle
Member
NullPointer said:
Fucken sweet, does this mean no bullet lag? sometimes by BR is super tight and sometimes the shots are freaking lag to travel to my target.... Holy crap im so excited for this game all over again, the disappointing EB screens were slightly depressing but im glad thats now how its gonna look
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
DreamVsPS2_ said:
You have a bedroom full of entertainment devices, a bed, two lamps, a shit load of clothes, some furniture and some book shelves; all of which you've owned and used for years.
One day you decided you want change so you remove EVERYTHING from your bedroom until it's just an empty square and you replace every single thing with its new counter-part.
Everything in the room is new, but is it still the same room you've always lived in?
The Librarian
Banned
Lookin' good! Keep 'em comin'!Kibbles said:Another exclusive screenshot I whipped up for you.
Domino Theory said:You have a bedroom full of entertainment devices, a bed, two lamps, a shit load of clothes, some furniture and some book shelves; all of which you've owned and used for years.
One day you decided you want change so you remove EVERYTHING from your bedroom until it's just an empty square and you replace every single thing with its new counter-part.
Everything in the room is new, but is it still the same room you've always lived in?
Fuck that I'm living on the lawn. No Room No Buy. Mortgage cancelled.
Seriously, I think some people just bitch about the engine thing because they hear it elsewhere and think it's cool. It's been totally revamped according to all of the info we have. Why would they spend the time building a new one from scratch if it's not needed?
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Trasher said:
Bullet lag is different from what I'm talking about. We're not playin' Gears, here.
Everytime I shoot the Sniper, the bullet trail is always half a foot behind the person I shot, but the actual hit registers wherever I aim.
This film supports it: http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=104749968
You can even check out the game winning kill (Nutter will be pissed when he sees it :lol)
Major Williams
Member
Thank you Domino. This is literally what I had in mind when they were saying that Reach was 'new'. It didn't add up and your new room analogy is the exact way I thought it was bogus. Which apparently your argument is bogus...Domino Theory said:You have a bedroom full of entertainment devices, a bed, two lamps, a shit load of clothes, some furniture and some book shelves; all of which you've owned and used for years.
One day you decided you want change so you remove EVERYTHING from your bedroom until it's just an empty square and you replace every single thing with its new counter-part.
Everything in the room is new, but is it still the same room you've always lived in?
Update on my thoughts so far (new stuff in bold). It'll be interesting to see how they change with more info being released and time with the beta. Was really hoping for some more in depth gameplay description from the edge article but having read it, it's more in line with the GI article than I wanted. Hopefully they'll get into some of the nitty-gritty on the podcast next week.
Great:
Good:
Concerned:
Bad:
Fucking thing sucks:
Great:
- Focus on natural environments and ambient life.
- "... darker tone overall... not going for that desaturated modern war movie vibe."
- More huge battles
- Lighting looks great. Is it fully realtime though? Will my forge maps have proper lighting?
- Return of the hitscan!
Good:
- New LOD and "imposter" system.
- Campaign starts at the beginning of the invasion. The possibility of an amazing covie reveal scenario.
- DMR. Sounds like a cool guy. On a related note, it sounds exactly like the CE pistol, so the magnum in reach must be different in some way - I hope it won't be a shitty throw away weapon like it is in Halo 3.
- Seems like they added a little more depth to the melee combat. Still hope they don't force use to use predominately CQC weapons and incredibly high rates of melee like in Halo 3.
- Stealth. Although using the camo ability, running, and hiding until it recharges sounds boring as hell. Hopefully that's not a viable way of getting through such levels on legendary.
- LWG customization. Hopefully they'll go all out with it in MP (visual permutaion, performance ones I'm not to sure of).
- No elites in MP. Frees up the elite models to be huge and badass once more.
- Customized character carries over multiple game modes.
- Grades and credits, depending on what they are exactly, could really add some more replayability to the campaign/co-op.
Concerned:
- Is the DMR a replacement for the BR? Is so, why,? If not, ignore the following: Halo has always lacked a healthy variety of mid-range weapons thus causing simpler people to complain that some weapons get used to often. Halo 3's mid-range palette consisted of the BR and the carbine. There's no need to take out the BR when Reach (so far) has only the carbine (assumed), DMR, and the needle rifle. Which lead to my next concern.
- The needle rifle. I really hope it has no homing abilities whatsoever. The range of the homing Halo 3 needlers is bad enough as it is. 3 shots to detonate? Those better be 3 headshots to detonate or 6 regular shots or this thing better have an incredibly slow rate of fire. In what way is the gun a "headshot" weapon?
- Armor abilities. "There was a problem with equipment in earlier games. You would pick a piece up, you really wouldn't understand what it was, and then you'd use it and waste it." Totally! I have the same problems with grenades, I pick it up, and then being the dumbass I am, I'd use it and waste it. Give me regenerating grenades please. I realize there are reasons beyond these, but that quote just came off as dumb as the whole "Not enough disc space for the BR" thing. Anyways, I really don't know what I'd think of this sort of thing if it were implemented the same way in MP. "Used as often as grenades"? :/
- "Improved radar". Although I prefer having no radar, I can stomach Halo 3's because there's still some ambiguity to it. Now with height reporting it's become a super radar that'll reduce the need for real environmental awareness and team communication. Sure it may be off for a handful of gametypes but most playlists will include this super radar if Halo 3 is any indication. What's next, just putting waypoints over everyone's head?
- Increasing the co-op teleport distance. I'd put this in the good/great section but knowing Bungie there'll be enough invisible walls to negate any exploration that would've been worthwhile.
Bad:
- Skirmishers don't sound like a worthwhile replacement for brutes. Why aren't brutes included as well as the weapons and vehicles they used? Spike grenades are confirmed to be gone and we'd lose the spikers, hammers, and bobsleds - who cares (but they could've been improved to add to the sandbox). We'd lose the brute shot and the brute chopper though which were both served fantastic roles in the sandbox. Their swiftness could make them fun to headshot though. There's no way they'll look good but they could be fun to fight.
- Seems like they're still trying to force the AR down our throats. Hopefully it'll have a tighter spread, much slower fire rate, and headshot give the play an actual advantage in order to evolve it past spray, pray, beatdown. It depends on how the MP is set up but I don't want to have to spawn with a fully-auto sprayer. I also don't want to be aiming the DRM and landing headshot only to have someone outgun me at midrange because they were spraying madly with the AR.
- Return of VISR. They're overhauling the lighting system of the game only to thrown in a vision mode that outlines everything with hard edges and masks the dark atmosphere. Encountering an elite in a dark room by passing a flashlight past them was the epitome of fear. Didn't like it all that much in ODST but I especially don't want it in Reach.
Fucking thing sucks:
- Return of the health bar/packs. "Encourage exploration?" More like annoy the shit out of players who'd rather just keep having fun instead of wander around first. If you want to encourage exploration, how about getting rid of all those damn invisible walls. When I was exporing shit in CE it was because I knew if I tried hard enough I could get somewhere unexpected and potentially awesome, not so much because I wanted to stop that annoying beep noise. I hope to god that shit doesn't make it over to MP. I like that they're extending the time it takes for shields to recharge though.
- Seriously, there better be choppers in this fucking game. There will be hell to pay if I can drive some lame as truck around but not the chopper. Vehicle combat without the chopper in the sandbox is boring as hell.
- The assassination mechanic. Is the spectacular animation really necessary. Is it going to be like assassin's creed where all the enemies stop shooting at me so I can complete this animation in peace or will I just get mowed down as my character finishes this elaborate animation? Context sensitive combat sucks. The moment I fail to complete start the animation because the AI switched from unaware to aware without my knowledge I'll hate it forever. They're really putting this shit in MP? "allows the player to shit-talk their opponent?" Give me a break.
When you have p2p gaming along with shots that require leading, it results in an incredibly inconsistent and frustrating experience. It works better in Battlefield because they use dedicated servers. Luckily with you p2p means there'll still be lag so you'll have to lead your shots a bit anyways.gibonez said:
dilatedmuscle
Member
Nutter said:
I agree, there's nothing more satisfying then having to lead a sniper shot in BF2 from across the map and getting the headshot half a second after i pulled the trigger.... But leave that out of my HALO's lol Leading shots are more satisfying but it leaves an open door for lag and host advantage.
Kibbles
Member
Note to Bungie: Please make First Person gameplay trailers a la Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and Modern Warfare 2. These videos are always awesome. It also shows how the game plays... and I really want to hear the new sound effects on the guns.
Actually, a ViDoc having some of that would be good around now.
Actually, a ViDoc having some of that would be good around now.
EasyB, don't get excited yet. The article didn't say anything about hitscan. Don't give yourself unrealistic expectaions. Then again, I think it's silly to make pro/con lists about two magazine articles on a game not even in an internal beta yet, but I digress. If Sage or his beard had uttered hitscan, I'd be right up there with you. But as of now, we don't have any solid confirmation of that yet.
EazyB said:
I've always thought that an instantaneous kill by meleeing someone in the back was a bad gameplay mechanic. I'm pretty sure what Bungie is talking about when it comes to shit talking their opponent, is that an assassination should be something that you do when you've snuck up on an opponent and they weren't paying enough attention, not something you can execute by simply jumping over someone's head to quickly karate chop them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzXUsgT0JXI
I have no problem with it taking a small amount of time to execute, and since we have no idea how long it takes, we shouldn't be bitching about it.
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
If hitscan is indeed back I will like Reach even more than I was expecting to, and that's saying something.
Kibbles
Member
They showed Halo 3 ViDocs a lot earlier than this point in development. Halo 3 had quite a few ViDocs. Bungie mentioned a ViDoc a few weeks ago but said it won't come due to the embargoes. I wonder if they actually were making it and plan to release it soon, or if urk was just saying that we won't get the usual post-trailer vidoc.Kapura said:
ViDoc on Reach - February
Multiplayer ViDoc - April
Reach Beta - May
Pre-Release ViDoc (detailing new features, like the Forge ViDoc before Halo 3 released)- August
Release - September
Do it.
I don't like the return of the VISOR either. It would be nice if it was only active in scoped weapons like in ce sniper's night-vision.
If they want to make the game more scary there is nothing more powerful than the flashlight. Remember those dark rooms in silent cartographer with the invisible elites like the one after you open the locked door? Scariest part of all halo games right there.
If they want to make the game more scary there is nothing more powerful than the flashlight. Remember those dark rooms in silent cartographer with the invisible elites like the one after you open the locked door? Scariest part of all halo games right there.
I thought we were talking about hitscan. Bullet lag means no hitscan lol. And that is NOT how my sniper works haha.Domino Theory said:Bullet lag is different from what I'm talking about. We're not playin' Gears, here.
Everytime I shoot the Sniper, the bullet trail is always half a foot behind the person I shot, but the actual hit registers wherever I aim.
This film supports it: http://www.bungie.net/Online/Halo3UserContentDetails.aspx?h3fileid=104749968
You can even check out the game winning kill (Nutter will be pissed when he sees it :lol)
bobs...onGaf
Member
Falagard said:
The karate chop thing is awesome
assassinations should be quick, if you get stuck in a small animation the assassination itself might be pointless as you cant just quickly start fighting the dude next to him - an animation no matter how short wont be quick enough to keep it even if he notices you while your assassinating
Uh, my comments are no different than other people's reactions to what's known so far. Unless taking that step to organize these feelings from good to bad crosses some sort of line. And like I said, they are by no means concrete and I'm interested in seeing how my expectations change as more is revealed.Kapura said:
And I don't know why they'd implement something other than hitscan if they want to negate the need to lead shots.
The Faceless Master
Member
you're CELEBRATING this?Domino Theory said:
wait, wait, what the fuck, people are HAPPY about Hitscan?
FlawlessCowboy
Member
Wow. It seems like Bungie is really going all out on Reach. They're taking everything we love about Halo and adding more awesomeness.
Also, this:
Also, this:
Kibbles said:
EasyB, organization is silly.
Also, while most people are giving general feelings of their impressions, you are giving tiers. I'm down with a little judgementation, but the girth of your shit tiers makes me sad that in the reach thread you are already talking so much shit about it.
But I don't want to get into a fight about this. I ought not to have sad anything about your lists. My bad.
Also, while most people are giving general feelings of their impressions, you are giving tiers. I'm down with a little judgementation, but the girth of your shit tiers makes me sad that in the reach thread you are already talking so much shit about it.
But I don't want to get into a fight about this. I ought not to have sad anything about your lists. My bad.
Hydranockz
Member
A podcast is in the works though, right?
What do you mean by internal beta? I mean, they have had plenty of take home builds and have been playing it in the Pentathalon over at Bunie HQ so that to me sounds like a game that is having an internal beta. Albeit vital playtesting. I may have misunderstood 'internal beta'.
I hope my gimp skills aren't too rusty.
The true meaning of oonsksi:
What do you mean by internal beta? I mean, they have had plenty of take home builds and have been playing it in the Pentathalon over at Bunie HQ so that to me sounds like a game that is having an internal beta. Albeit vital playtesting. I may have misunderstood 'internal beta'.
I hope my gimp skills aren't too rusty.
The true meaning of oonsksi:
See what I did there? SI. Teehee.
The girth is really unrelated to my general feelings about Reach. If you count up the amount of positive (good & great) they really outnumber the poor things (bad & fucking shit). I just feel it's more important to explain why I feel those aspects are poor than to go on about the additions that are good. It's the stuff at the bottom of the list that I'll be hoping for reassurance through further reveals and time with the beta, and thus they're more fleshed out.Kapura said:
You act as if jumping over the back of someone and hitting them in the back is easy :lolFalagard said:
The assassination animation won't make it harder to get the assassination, jump over their back and hold the melee button down, it'll just add some unnecessary animation that'll slow things down and take the player out of their normal perspective for about a brief period of time. If brings up questions like: can you complete these animations while both of you are in midair? Do you have to be on the same plane for the animation to trigger or will your player warp to where the animation normally begins? At what point during the animation will the "boarded" player actually die? Can they be interrupted if the assassinating or assassinated player dies mid animation and how fluidly will that animation play out afterward?
Point is I don't see what this animation is adding to the game and what was so wrong about the old system of assassinations without animations. I would like it if you had to hold the melee button down for a while to charge up a melee that's as strong and lungy as Halo 3's while a quick spray and elbow would do less melee damage but the animation seems to be needless flashiness. Even Bungie, this late into the game's development isn't sold on whether or not it works. And they even think the AR works as a starting weapon so I don't see any reason to take this assassination business on faith.
CrazedArabMan
Member
I just want to say this now, way too many juniors.
Stormtrooper30
Member
This. Hitscan is a wonderful thing.Ramirez said:
VISR mode is no good. Flashlight is so much more badass. Not looking forward to longer sniper shots or melee animation.
You've said this a few times now, but they're not the replacement for Brutes. Elites are. Skirmishers are in addition to Elites.EazyB said:
Given that Elite combat behavior has not yet been described in detail, we don't know how Skirmishers really fit into the overall mix. But I always thought it was clear that Elites were taking on the role of primary heavy adversary from Brutes.
From the description of the Skirmishers, they seem to have the role that the Drones used to have (rushing/flanking). In the Edge and GI articles, they talk about Grunts, Elites, Jackals and Skirmishers. If they're the replacement for Drones, you can bump that bullet right on up to Great.
As for losing the Brute sandbox items - we're looking at probably picking up new Elite stuff to fill in that void.
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
I hope Skirmishers are replacing Drones, hell I'll take anything as a replacement to Drones. Worst enemy in Halo easily.
The Librarian
Banned
This.GhaleonEB said:
While I don't mind Drones in campaign, I've come to dislike them because of Firefight. EVIL.AwesomeSyrup said:
That was based on GI's description of them as a vicious assaulting class. Edge has made it more clear that they are like grounded drones, moving really fast and peppering the screen with plasma pistol shots (needler skirmishers forthcoming). They could be fun to fight or they could be annoying like the drones. The other bit of that was based on the sandbox element. I guess it's alright if they plan to re-skin unique brute items with some purple and green elite garb but I enjoyed the 3 distinct classes of weapons: Human, Purple, and Brute. The different feeling and distinct aethetics of each factions weaponry added a lot of variety to the gameplay.GhaleonEB said:
Now with apparently only two different classes of weapons I feel they'll scale the amount of weapons down instead of try to improve how one game's sandbox can play with 3 different weapon varieties; trying to make them all useful and fun. It's great to cut down some of the fat in Halo 3's many useless weapons but it'd be even greater if they turned that fat into muscle and made the sandbox just as big but more refined. If they stick with 2 it gives them more reason to avoid putting, say 3 sorts of midrange rifles in the game when it's harder to differentiate two midrange plasma rifles from one another than it is a midrange weapon for each faction.
CrazedArabMan
Member
Toddler said:
I edited it after I realized what I did, so settle down.
Oh, I agree there. And I've long said my preference is for Brutes to be fighting alongside Elites.EazyB said:
I suspect I'm in the deep minority here, but one thing I loved about the Halo 1 Covenant weapons is they each had unique properties and didn't fit directly into the power/range continuum that the human weapons did. The Plasma Rifle stripped shields fast, overheated and stunned enemies; the Plasma Pistol had the overcharge; the Needler homed and s'ploded.
That's something I miss in most of the weapons introduced since; the exceptions were pretty much the Brute Shot and Gravity Hammer. So I'll be sad to see those go.
I know that won't sit well with the crowd that wants more precision instruments - and I'm all for having lots of those - but to me the uniqueness of the Covenant weaponry was one of my favorite things about Halo 1 that the series lost from there. So I'm hoping the slight re-setting of the weapon set recaptures some of that.
The Librarian
Banned
The one thing I really love about the Halo 1 Covenant weapons is that they, along with all the things you said, made them fun to kill with (it's much harder to kill an Elite/Brute in Halo 2/3/ODST with a single PR than it was in Halo 1).GhaleonEB said:
I suspect that allowing to dual wield them is a huge part of the reason why they're not as they once were, or at least how you liked them as, so hopefully with Reach, dual wielding is out.
CrazedArabMan
Member
Sill4 said:
Yeah I know, it was funny to see earlier like 6 different juniors post all in a row. :lol