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[dslgunstar]

The pistol's range is just outside of the AR's range and the accuracy for it blows really quickly (indicated by the reticule bloom). It also comes with a 2x zoom.

The DMR's range is significantly longer (think Sniper range), but with a slower rate of fire and the accuracy doesn't blow out as fast as the Pistol's. It also comes with a 3x zoom.

The pistol is HARDLY overpowered. It's now the perfect side-arm to use in combat. <3

Oh, ok, I must have missed some of those details. I guess that's the risk you take when you listen while you're putting together a pitch for an emarketing campaign

Ok, that sounds good. New question: At what range does the AR have an advantage over the pistol. Because if the pistol can beat the AR at any range within its max range, then doesnt that render the AR worthless?

 

[GhaleonEB]

In LAN, though, where everyone is up close and it's in RL, people are far less likely to be complete assholes during gameplay.

You had some very polite friends. :lol

Ok, that sounds good. New question: At what range does the AR have an advantage over the pistol. Because if the pistol can beat the AR at any range within its max range, then doesnt that render the AR worthless?

Sounds like close range. It will take four shots from the pistol to take your shields out, but an AR up close is likely to drop shields faster than the pistol fires (from what we've seen so far at least). I'd wager that an AR vs. pistol fight, in which the players are going for a shield strip and then finishing mêlée, will be won by the AR.

(With the Spiker and SMG out, I suspect the AR is being refined even further to be an ideal close range semiautomatic weapon.)

On a different note, I love how a frag that hits you directly will do a tiny amount of damage. You just know we'll see instances where that's enough to finish you off.

 

[Domino Theory]

Ok, that sounds good. New question: At what range does the AR have an advantage over the pistol. Because if the pistol can beat the AR at any range within its max range, then doesnt that render the AR worthless?

At close range. Anything farther than that and the dude wielding the Pistol will most likely win.

But I think even at close -to- medium range, if you wield the AR and get the first shot on the Pistol-wielder before he does on you then I'm sure you'll win.

 

[dslgunstar]

At close range. Anything farther than that and the dude wielding the Pistol will most likely win.

But I think even at close -to- medium range, if you wield the AR and get the first shot on the Pistol-wielder before he does on you then I'm sure you'll win.

Thats assuming headshots?

The DMR is five shots to a kill, four to the body, last one to the head. Is that the same for the pistol, or do you need to score all headshots to put someone down in five? That wasnt clear to me.

As for the AR, seems like its just taking over the SMG niche. Hopefully burst-firing will help it pick up some accuracy. I dont want a spawn weapon that Im eager to drop at the first convenience, I want a spawn weapon that remains useful throughout a match, in specific situations.

 

[Thermite]

You had some very polite friends. :lol

:lol Maybe. I haven't experienced griefing before in a LAN. I've never had a case where people would betray each other over weapons, or because their teammates "suck", or anything like that. Of course, there's always the taunting going on or what have you, but it's all in good fun. ;P

 

[Domino Theory]

Thats assuming headshots?

The DMR is five shots to a kill, four to the body, last one to the head. Is that the same for the pistol, or do you need to score all headshots to put someone down in five? That wasnt clear to me.

Same for the Pistol: 4 shots to the body with 1 to the head OR 5 shots to the head.

Also, the best news from the podcast aside from the Pistol is the changes in melee. Now even if you have half an inch of shields left and someone melees you, it won't kill you, it'll just remove that sliver so you MUST remove shields first to kill someone with a melee.

That's going to DRASTICALLY change how people approach CQC situations in Halo: Reach because instead of doing, say, 4-6 shots to the body with the AR then a melee to kill someone (Halo 3), that same scenario in Halo: Reach will only result in the enemy losing their shields.

So now the best thing to do in CQC situations is to shoot the WHOLE time until their shields are gone THEN melee.

FUCK YES.

 

[dslgunstar]

Same for the Pistol: 4 shots to the body with 1 to the head OR 5 shots to the head.

Also, the best news from the podcast aside from the Pistol is the changes in melee. Now even if you have half an inch of shields left and someone melees you, it won't kill you, it'll just remove that sliver so you MUST remove shields first to kill someone with a melee.

That's going to DRASTICALLY change how people approach CQC situations in Halo: Reach because instead of doing, say, 4-6 shots to the body with the AR then a melee to kill someone (Halo 3), that same scenario in Halo: Reach will only result in the enemy losing their shields.

So now the best thing to do in CQC situations is to shoot the WHOLE time until their shields are gone THEN melee.

FUCK YES.

So that basically ensures that the pistol is not only useful in mid-range, but actually better than the DMR at that range? I'm not really liking the sounds of that, I think the weapon you have to collect should be better than the weapon you start with in any range overlap. I guess we'll see how its working out in the beta.

Changes to the CQC sound great though.

 

[Domino Theory]

So that basically ensures that the pistol is not only useful in mid-range, but actually better than the DMR at that range?

Ugh...

The DMR is better than the Pistol in every aspect (range, accuracy, etc.), period.

 

[dslgunstar]

Ugh...

The DMR is better than the Pistol in every aspect (range, accuracy, etc.), period.

...except for fire-rate and damage, of course.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

In the podcast they said that headshots, while harder to achieve, felt a lot more satisfying; anyone else find the fact 4 body shots and a headshot inflicting the same damage as 5 headshots a little counter-intuitive in this regard?

Also, what's it take to kill someone with only body shots? 7 body shots, 8, 9?

It seems like I'm going to get pissed off a lot by people who get 4 body shots and that lucky headshot, while I aim for the head, get 4 headshots and miss once because it's a smaller target. This is not how you should reward players who take time to aim...

 

[Blueblur1]

I love everything Bungie's doing so far. Keep up the good work, guys. Especially Sage.

By the way, did anyone notice the use of the phrase 'armor block'?

 

[KidA Seven]

It seems like I'm going to get pissed off a lot by people who get 4 body shots and that lucky headshot, while I aim for the head, get 4 headshots and miss once because it's a smaller target. This is not how you should reward players who take time to aim before shots.

There is no point to aim for the head on every shot. The best way is to aim for the body until the enemy is no shields, then aim for the head. It was like this in Halo 3 as well.

 

[Thermite]

In the podcast they said that headshots, while harder to achieve, felt a lot more satisfying; anyone else find the fact 4 body shots and a headshot inflicting the same damage as 5 headshots a little counter-intuitive in this regard?

Also, what's it take to kill someone with only body shots? 7 body shots, 8, 9?

It seems like I'm going to get pissed off a lot by people who get 4 body shots and that lucky headshot, while I aim for the head, get 4 headshots and miss once because it's a smaller target. This is not how you should reward players who take time to aim before shots.

Right now in Halo 3, three shots to the body and one shot to the head from a BR will kill someone. So....it's the same basic principle in Reach - Bungie just upped the count, is all.

 

[Domino Theory]

...except for fire-rate and damage, of course.

If you were at the Sniper spawn on High Ground with a Pistol and I was at the Laser spawn with a DMR and you were shooting at me, even if you timed your shots (which would slow down your rate of fire since the reticule bloom happens a lot quicker with the Pistol AND is larger compared to the DMR's), you'd be shooting blanks because the Pistol wouldn't have that range.

But if I was shooting at you, even if I didn't time my shots too well, I could still kill you in 5-6 shots because the DMR has that supreme range AND accuracy.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

There is no point to aim for the head on every shot. The best way is to aim for the body until the enemy is no shields, then aim for the head. It was like this in Halo 3 as well.

that explains why I die a lot in 1v1 br... It also explains a lot of my frustration, and it's kinda sad since I've been playing halo 3 since launch and never noticed.

I still think this is completely counter intuitive. Aiming for the head should be rewarded all the time, and even more so on the first shot as opposed to the fifth shot because of recoil and the increased chance of randomly hitting the head.

It also doesn't make sense continuity wise. If 4 body shots can take out a shield and 4 headshots can take out a shield, why would you only need 5 headshots/4body shots and 1 headshot, but more bodyshots?

 

[Trasher]

In LAN, though, where everyone is up close and it's in RL, people are far less likely to be complete assholes during gameplay.

You need to play with Luke in a LAN sometime. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Hostile Paradox]

I love everything Bungie's doing so far. Keep up the good work, guys. Especially Sage.

Camouflage on demand? Yes please

 

[Blueblur1]

You need to play with Luke in a LAN sometime. :lol :lol :lol

This post reminded me of the Halo 3 LAN customs I played at PAX East with the guys. I was talking so much shit. Those kids were terrible. :lol

 

[Sanjuro]

Yeah, I thought it was odd that Astro was such a big sponsor, but didn't even have a booth - I wanted to try them. I preferred look of the Triton headsets, but they were heavy, they sat on my head really oddly, and I could never get them to form a good seal around my ears. The Turtle Beach headphones were snug and light and sounded awesome. As mentioned earlier, vhfive won a pair of the wireless headphones by beating that clown of a pro. Different colored contacts? Seriously? Also the Turtle Beach rep was a total skeezball.

Yeah he was. I just asked some questions and he told me he was busy.

Triton just had tits everywhere. They didn't help me...but they looked nice.

 

[Blueblur1]

Yeah he was. I just asked some questions and he told me he was busy.

Triton just had tits everywhere. They didn't help me...but they looked nice.

Voilà!

 

[Hostile Paradox]

Yeah, I thought it was odd that Astro was such a big sponsor, but didn't even have a booth - I wanted to try them. I preferred look of the Triton headsets, but they were heavy, they sat on my head really oddly, and I could never get them to form a good seal around my ears. The Turtle Beach headphones were snug and light and sounded awesome. As mentioned earlier, vhfive won a pair of the wireless headphones by beating that clown of a pro. Different colored contacts? Seriously? Also the Turtle Beach rep was a total skeezball.

Said clown, I forget his name. Prodigy X, Prodigy, some BS like that.

Yes, that is a green contact in one eye, and the other was blue. I'm pretty sure he's a flamer, but for some reasons babes couldn't resist him. "Oh look at me, I'm all tortured so babes are attracted to me."

 

[Blueblur1]

Said clown, I forget his name. Prodigy X, Prodigy, some BS like that.

I'd like to point out that the girl to his right on the stool, who is his teammate, is much much better than he is.

 

[ZZMitch]

That would be the newest member to Rooster Teeth. His name escapes me right now. He's the guy on the left.

P.S. Yes, those are Heinekens on their table.

Gus looks so bad ass in person.

Spoiler

I have already seen him on Achievement Hunter but... :lol

 

[The Librarian]

(With the Spiker and SMG out, I suspect the AR is being refined even further to be an ideal close range semiautomatic weapon.)

Close-to-mid range semiautomatic. I don't think the AR is being pushed into a SMG/spiker role, and it certainly doesn't seem that way. All one has to do is look at the campaign footage from Once More Unto the Breach, when the player is fighting the Elite, to get a good look at how the AR will perform in the game. It's range is pretty comparable to the MA5C, and it looks a tad bit more accurate to boot.

 

[Self Induced]

that explains why I die a lot in 1v1 br... It also explains a lot of my frustration, and it's kinda sad since I've been playing halo 3 since launch and never noticed.

I still think this is completely counter intuitive. Aiming for the head should be rewarded all the time, and even more so on the first shot as opposed to the fifth shot because of recoil and the increased chance of randomly hitting the head.

It also doesn't make sense continuity wise. If 4 body shots can take out a shield and 4 headshots can take out a shield, why would you only need 5 headshots/4body shots and 1 headshot, but more bodyshots?

...wow, what?

Allow me to explain how shields work in the Halo universe. A "shield" has HP and totally encompasses... whatever the shield is on. If the shield is on an apple, you won't do more damage shooting it in a different spot or using different angles. Applying this to a spartan... when his shields are full and you shoot him in the head, you aren't shooting him in the head. You're shooting his shields. A sniper causes instant death with a headshot because a sniper bullet does more damage than a shield's HP. The leftover damage is then applied to the area of the Spartan the shot hit.

If this angers you, perhaps you should reflect on why, exactly, you took so long to notice how a BR works, which I agree is kinda sad.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

...wow, what?

Allow me to explain how shields work in the Halo universe. A "shield" has HP and totally encompasses... whatever the shield is on. If the shield is on an apple, you won't do more damage shooting it from underneath or using different angles. Applying this to a spartan... when his shields are full and you shoot him in the head, you aren't shooting him in the head. You're shooting his shields.

If this angers you, perhaps you should reflect on why, exactly, you took so long to notice how a BR works, which I agree is kinda sad.

let me tell you how the shield works in halo, the shield is controlled by the user interface to apply more or less strength to individual areas of the body, allowing the spartan to perform such tasks as a drop, without the requirement of a drop-pod.

The weakest piece of armor on the spartan is the visor, it would only make sense to apply stronger shielding there. A shot from a weapon depletes the shielding, if more energy is funneled to the area in front of the visor, more energy is going to be depleted per shot it takes.

Continuity and logic ftw.

 

[EazyB]

Sounds like close range. It will take four shots from the pistol to take your shields out, but an AR up close is likely to drop shields faster than the pistol fires (from what we've seen so far at least). I'd wager that an AR vs. pistol fight, in which the players are going for a shield strip and then finishing mêlée, will be won by the AR.

(With the Spiker and SMG out, I suspect the AR is being refined even further to be an ideal close range semiautomatic weapon.)

Here's the quote from the podcast:

"... the magnum plays ideally right outside of AR range. A very skilled magnum player could take down a guy with an AR pretty consistently, with a pretty rapid rate of fire."

Seems to me this could mean that at any range (say every AR round lands as well as every pistol round its highest rate of fire) the pistol will win out as long as it doesn't come down to melee as the AR probably will strip the shield faster.


On what Omlet's been talking about. The pistol should beat out the DMR at close range because it has a better rate of fire. Actually, as long as you are able to land each shot on a person wielding a DMR it'll outgun it. Assuming the pistol, with its 2x zoom, can consistently land shots at ranges up to "just beyond AR range" it'll be the go-to weapon for close to mid range. In Halo 3 you'd probably want to keep a BR on you when you pick up a sniper rifle, in Reach it seems like the pistol will replace that role. My biggest fear is that the pistol (which'll probably be the AR's sidearm) won't be able to compete the the DMR when one team all have DMRs. Sounds like at close-midrange they'll actually be just fine but hopefully they'll stand a chance knocking a DMR/sniper out of zoom.

 

[Trasher]

let me tell you how the shield works in halo, the shield is controlled by the user interface to apply more or less strength to individual areas of the body, allowing the spartan to perform such tasks as a drop, without the requirement of a drop-pod.

The weakest piece of armor on the spartan is the visor, it would only make sense to apply stronger shielding there. A shot from a weapon depletes the shielding, if more energy is funneled to the area in front of the visor, more energy is going to be depleted per shot it takes.

Continuity and logic ftw.

Joke post?

This isn't about realism. This is about balancing a multiplayer game to make it fun.

 

[Self Induced]

let me tell you how the shield works in halo, the shield is controlled by the user interface to apply more or less strength to individual areas of the body, allowing the spartan to perform such tasks as a drop, without the requirement of a drop-pod.

The weakest piece of armor on the spartan is the visor, it would only make sense to apply stronger shielding there. A shot from a weapon depletes the shielding, if more energy is funneled to the area in front of the visor, more energy is going to be depleted per shot it takes.

Continuity and logic ftw.

:lol

Are we playing a book?

 

[Hydranockz]

Joke post?

realism(no no no)
fun( yes yes yes!!!)

Fixed for emphasis

 

[Slightly Live]

let me tell you how the shield works in halo, the shield is controlled by the user interface to apply more or less strength to individual areas of the body, allowing the spartan to perform such tasks as a drop, without the requirement of a drop-pod.

The weakest piece of armor on the spartan is the visor, it would only make sense to apply stronger shielding there. A shot from a weapon depletes the shielding, if more energy is funneled to the area in front of the visor, more energy is going to be depleted per shot it takes.

Continuity and logic ftw.

:lol

 

[Trasher]

:lol

Space-drop multiplayer maps confirmed?

 

[Wizman23]

5 weeks from now the Beta will be officially rocking. I have a feeling Invasion mode is going to own my soul.

 

[Sai-kun]

let me tell you how the shield works in halo, the shield is controlled by the user interface to apply more or less strength to individual areas of the body, allowing the spartan to perform such tasks as a drop, without the requirement of a drop-pod.

The weakest piece of armor on the spartan is the visor, it would only make sense to apply stronger shielding there. A shot from a weapon depletes the shielding, if more energy is funneled to the area in front of the visor, more energy is going to be depleted per shot it takes.

Continuity and logic ftw.

Well, as far as continuity and logic goes, I would trust a game over a book.


And...in Halo 2...MC is definitely in a drop pod. :lol

 

[Hostile Paradox]

Gus looks so bad ass in person.

Spoiler

I have already seen him on Achievement Hunter but... :lol

Here is Gus and Geof getting beat up by the Yakuza at the PAX East panel. :lol

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TWD2YJTD

Recorded by yours truly once again.

 

[Slightly Live]

Space-drop multiplayer maps confirmed?

Bungie should stop copying COD for a while and start copying Section 8? You are a genius! :lol
In all seriousness, you can't expect a video game to encompass every facet of the fiction brought up in the novels.

 

[Booshka]

I liked how it was in Halo CE, the pistol was a 3 shot kill, 2 body or 2 to the head, then 1 to the head, and your shield wasn't completely down after the second shot, there was a little bit left but the third Pistol shot damage exceeded the Shield capacity, then the Headshot modifier would kill the player.

I'm not sure how it will work in Reach, 5 shots seems okay if the rate of fire is faster than the BR but slower than the Carbine. I would like to have it so Headshots to shields did a little more damage than Body shots, then body shots did more than Leg shots. So if you get 2 or 3 headshots to the shield, then the obligatory shot to the head to the unshielded player, you could get a DMR or Magnum 4 shot. This could add even more depth and skill to the Marksman based weapons.

In previous Halo's marksman weapons you always went for the center mass (Torso) to get the shields down as efficiently as possible, then go for the headshot when the shield is down. With this idea, it would emphasize accuracy throughout the entire encounter. This could increase the skill gap, especially in Marksman vs Marksman weapons battles. One player goes for center mass then the headshot (4 body, 1 Head), the other player goes for all headshots , or mostly headshots and gets a 4 shot. The more risky and skilled player is rewarded in this encounter. While the other player has a good chance of winning if the riskier player misses one or more shots completely because he went for more headshots.

I've always wanted this kind of subtle feature in Halo, but it is overly complex and I'm sure plenty of people disagree with it. For me, though it would add another layer of skill and depth to the game.

 

[Tashi]

There were changes, both mild and large, from each game throughout the series (ODST notwithstanding). Why expect them to keep things exactly the way they were?

I don't necessarily want them to stay the same. I don't believe Halo 3 is perfect. Some things I wish that were changed in the other direction that were mentioned in the podcast were things like player movement. I feel like stock Halo 3 is a just a little too slow where as the 110% in MLG is juuuuust right. It's going to feel just a little slower now which I'm not too crazy about. On the other hand, the map design has a lot to do with how the player feels when running through the map so we'll see. Also, the idea that from the outset they wanted battles to take longer. I'm cool with extending close range battles because they usually end in half a second but mid-long range battles take 4 BR shots at least in Halo 2/3 and in stock Halo 3 about 50/50 4-5 shots. I'm also not too crazy about the fall damage. One of my favorite parts about the Halo maps is the ability to find new jumps and things of that nature. I guess all of that will just have to be done in custom games instead of during the matches themselves. I'm curious to see how slide jumping is handled.

When you stop and think about it, these little changes make a world of difference when actually playing the game. However, I seem to have a hard time of disconnecting myself from Halo 3 entirely. I'm putting Halo Reach weapons and rules and things like that in a Halo 3 map design and frame of mind. You can't do that.

Some questions I totally forgot about until I was listening to were:

Sweep sniping, in or out?

Spoiler

please be in

Melee trading, as in post Halo 3 patch, in or out?

Spoiler

please be out

Grenade jumping, in or out? Host or off host dependent?

Spoiler

THIS HAS TO BE IN, NOT HOST DEPENDENT

I just want to make it clear though that I'm not shitting on Reach or anything like that but I'm not giving it uber praise yet until I get my hands on it. I'm really just dying to play this fucking game though

edit: About the DMR and Magnum. Later the DMR and the Magnum will hook up and make a BR. The DMR is a BR but not as good and the Magnum is a BR but not as good either. By good I mean versatile, great in every situation.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Here's the quote from the podcast:

"... the magnum plays ideally right outside of AR range. A very skilled magnum player could take down a guy with an AR pretty consistently, with a pretty rapid rate of fire."

Seems to me this could mean that at any range (say every AR round lands as well as every pistol round its highest rate of fire) the pistol will win out as long as it doesn't come down to melee as the AR probably will strip the shield faster.

Right, that's what I was saying. Definitely liking what I'm hearing for the pistol/DMR distinctions.

I'm now curious how the Needle Rifle slots into the relationship. Its explosive qualities aside, I wonder how it would hold up in a shootout with either the pistol or the DMR.

 

[Cuban Legend]

Sweep sniping, in or out?

Spoiler

please be in

Isn't sweep sniping just the result of the poor Halo 2 netcode?

And thus, it should be a good thing that it's not present in Reach?

 

[Trasher]

Isn't sweep sniping just the result of the poor Halo 2 netcode?

I think it was the result of the auto-aim in Halo 2. There was much more auto-aim in 2 compared to that in 3.

 

[Kapura]

Sniping is confirmed to require more skill. Doesn't that completely eliminate the possibility of sweep sniping?

Also Ghaleon, does that mean Reach has CONFIRMED DRM? Are hackers gonna take down the bungie servers like they did with Ubisoft?

 

[Booshka]

edit: About the DMR and Magnum. Later the DMR and the Magnum will hook up and make a BR. The DMR is a BR but not as good and the Magnum is a BR but not as good either. By good I mean versatile, great in every situation.

Making a gun great in every situation is the exact opposite outcome a Sandbox designer wants to have happen. Guns should have roles, they exceed in their niche, can compete slightly out of that niche, and are outmatched and not competitive completely outside their role.

 

[Thagomizer]

In the podcast they said that headshots, while harder to achieve, felt a lot more satisfying; anyone else find the fact 4 body shots and a headshot inflicting the same damage as 5 headshots a little counter-intuitive in this regard?

Also, what's it take to kill someone with only body shots? 7 body shots, 8, 9?

It seems like I'm going to get pissed off a lot by people who get 4 body shots and that lucky headshot, while I aim for the head, get 4 headshots and miss once because it's a smaller target. This is not how you should reward players who take time to aim...

...then aim for the better target to take down shields, then go for the head. It's the smarter way to go. I really don't see how this is an issue.

 

[HowardRoark]

I liked how it was in Halo CE, the pistol was a 3 shot kill, 2 body or 2 to the head, then 1 to the head, and your shield wasn't completely down after the second shot, there was a little bit left but the third Pistol shot damage exceeded the Shield capacity, then the Headshot modifier would kill the player.

I'm not sure how it will work in Reach, 5 shots seems okay if the rate of fire is faster than the BR but slower than the Carbine. I would like to have it so Headshots to shields did a little more damage than Body shots, then body shots did more than Leg shots. So if you get 2 or 3 headshots to the shield, then the obligatory shot to the head to the unshielded player, you could get a DMR or Magnum 4 shot. This could add even more depth and skill to the Marksman based weapons.

In previous Halo's marksman weapons you always went for the center mass (Torso) to get the shields down as efficiently as possible, then go for the headshot when the shield is down. With this idea, it would emphasize accuracy throughout the entire encounter. This could increase the skill gap, especially in Marksman vs Marksman weapons battles. One player goes for center mass then the headshot (4 body, 1 Head), the other player goes for all headshots , or mostly headshots and gets a 4 shot. The more risky and skilled player is rewarded in this encounter. While the other player has a good chance of winning if the riskier player misses one or more shots completely because he went for more headshots.

I've always wanted this kind of subtle feature in Halo, but it is overly complex and I'm sure plenty of people disagree with it. For me, though it would add another layer of skill and depth to the game.

I like this idea.

 

[Tashi]

Making a gun great in every situation is the exact opposite outcome a Sandbox designer wants to have happen. Guns should have roles, they exceed in their niche, can compete slightly out of that niche, and are outmatched and not competitive completely outside their role.

Yea, and I agree it should be like that but to a certain extent. I think Halo 3, specifically the MLG settings struck a really nice balance between the BR and all the other weapons on the map. Maybe, I used the wrong word when I said, "Great". It's not as the though the BR has a leg up in every situation, that's not what I'm saying. I also don't think that it should be. However, I'm saying as a starting standard weapon it's very well rounded. It seems as though Halo Reach doesn't have that. Just as I say that though, I get into the trouble of trying to shoehorn a new game into an old style. The standards and things we're used to in previous Halo games won't be completely applicable and proportional to those in Reach. I won't say any more until I play the beta.

 

[dslgunstar]

Here's the quote from the podcast:

"... the magnum plays ideally right outside of AR range. A very skilled magnum player could take down a guy with an AR pretty consistently, with a pretty rapid rate of fire."

Seems to me this could mean that at any range (say every AR round lands as well as every pistol round its highest rate of fire) the pistol will win out as long as it doesn't come down to melee as the AR probably will strip the shield faster.

Wow, that sounds really terrible, since it essentially renders the AR worthless. If there's no range or situation in which it excels, then WTF even include it in the damn game? IMO, if a pistol and AR go at it within AR range, assuming every shot lands, then victory should come down to whomever uses grenades or melees most effectively. From what Im reading, the pistol will always have the advantage, making everyone that bothers to use the AR an idiot. Lame.

On what Omlet's been talking about. The pistol should beat out the DMR at close range because it has a better rate of fire. Actually, as long as you are able to land each shot on a person wielding a DMR it'll outgun it. Assuming the pistol, with its 2x zoom, can consistently land shots at ranges up to "just beyond AR range" it'll be the go-to weapon for close to mid range.

Again, lame. Why the hell would I put forth the effort of grabbing the DMR if the pistol I spawn with is more effective at mid-range and only slightly less effective at mid-long range. The accuracy of the pistol better drop like a rock the instant the projectile exits mid-range, otherwise it will simultaneously render the DMR and the AR less useful in their respective roles then they ought to be. That sounds like poor weapon balance to me, every weapon should have a clearly designed role.

This is the problem Bungie ran into with the pistol in the original Halo. It was so powerful and versatile in every situation that it discouraged players from actually making use of EVERY weapon in the roles they were meant. If one weapon could be rated a 10/10 in one particular scenario but a 4/10 in every other scenario, and another could be rated 7/10 in almost EVERY scenario, which weapon are players likely to spend the majority of the match using? I cant understand why they havent learned this simple lesson in the 10 years since Halo: CE.


EDIT: Ok, this post came off more harsh than intended. I blame an 18 hour day off of 3 hours of sleep.

Im still looking forward to the game, I just really hope that the AR, pistol, DMR all have separate, useful roles.

 

[Booshka]

Edit: @ Tashi I just think Reach will just allow people to have more play styles that can be effective, in H2 and H3 you almost always wanted a BR, then a Power Weapon as your secondary. Hopefully, in Reach, you will have more options to succeed, one weapon won't always be a necessity and you can mix it up with any secondary's you pick up. Personally, I'll probably always want a DMR or Needle Rifle available to me (I like the playstyle of marksman weapons), but it would detract from the sandbox if everyone else was at a disadvantage if they didn't have one.

I understand the MLG side of things, you want everyone to start with a competitive, skill based weapon and then have to earn the power weapons. I want Reach to be more complex and varied than current MLG Halo. MLG settings are the way they are because so many weapons in H3 aren't very skill based and don't match the style of play they want. But, if every weapon in Reach has a role it is best in and is skill based, then the sandbox becomes competitive, you don't have to strip out weapons because they are "noobish."

This is what I like about games like Halo CE and Shadowrun, almost every weapon in those games is powerful, skill-based and role-based, beside the H1 pistol possibly (Uber L33t gun). All weapons should be viable and balanced to allow the player to have the best weapon for that situation. Not, the best weapon for every situation. Players should have to create situations for themselves to utilize the weapon to it's fullest potential. The weapon shouldn't do that on its own.

 

[RebornYeti]

Just barely started podcast...

Damn, that piece in the beginning of the 'cast is soooooo good.

 

[Self Induced]

Wow, that sounds really terrible, since it essentially renders the AR worthless. If there's no range or situation in which it excels, then WTF even include it in the damn game? IMO, if a pistol and AR go at it within AR range, assuming every shot lands, then victory should come down to whomever uses grenades or melees most effectively. From what Im reading, the pistol will always have the advantage, making everyone that bothers to use the AR an idiot. Lame.

Really? Sounds good to me