Daffy Duck
Member
I cannot wait for this!
Not seen any promo material so going in totally blind!
It's going to be glorious.
Not seen any promo material so going in totally blind!
It's going to be glorious.
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Hannibal S3 |OT| Man Destroys God. Hannibal Eats Man. Hannibal Inherits The Earth.
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
A Serious Man
Member
I really hope this show picked up some good word of mouth in between seasons. I'm not expecting a Breaking Bad style jump in viewers but it would be nice if the show got the attention it deserves.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Breaking Bad's popularity spike was all Netflix, though, and Hannibal unwisely missed that boat.
Hardly anyone knows/cares about Amazon or Hulu nowadays. I expect even worse ratings, if anything, because 10pm + summer + awful promo* = not good ratings.
It's time to accept that the show will slowly spread through word of mouth (heck, I started watching S2), but will probably shed viewers at the same rate that it gains them because of the new scheduling, making the ratings a net wash.
* I haven't seen a single commercial for Hannibal, and the online promos are too tongue-in-cheek for their own good. Aquarius spots, on the other hand, are all over the place.
Same here, about X-Files that is. She's even more stunning in Hannibal.
Supercollider
Banned
The One Who Knocks: Before I respond, I would like to stress that I don't want to overemphasize my point, lest my comments be misread as a very negative appraisal of the show or something. I mean, even if I knew all the narrative beats and minutiae of the third season, the storytelling and the formal éclat are such that it wouldn't significantly compromise the experience (this is the advantage of any work of aesthetic ambition). So, just to be clear, I'm a great admirer of the show, and the issues I'm bringing up aren't egregious. I just wanted to note my own preference. I like to read interviews from show runners before and during any new season of television, but Fuller's interviews need to be avoided because he reveals so much.
Yes, this is true. Although, as someone who is only familiar with Demme, Scott, and Ratner's respective films, I'm not as well-versed in Hannibal lore as others. I wasn't familiar with the Minnesota Shrike, for instance (am I forgetting something from the films?).
Sure, yes. Although, I would qualify your assumption that everyone watching this show shares your level of familiarity with the character and his world (as it has been presented in literature and in cinema).
This doesn't really contest my central point, though. The appearance of Mason Verger was an inevitability, perhaps, but the specific timing of that event ought to have been a surprise. Did the fact that we knew when it was coming rob us of the performative qualities and the precise way that storyline was deployed? No. But it seems like Fuller keeps unnecessarily preparing us for these events (he even broke down the whole series, season by season, way back when, right?). Verger's appearance, among other things, shouldn't have been a telegraphed event. I can't recall; was Will's exit from prison also specified way in advance?
At the same time, I have to accept responsibility for the fact that I knew about these things because I read interviews. I should have adopted a more abstemious approach to spoilers. I'm trying to be more careful this time around.
Yes, of course. This is good. But it's also distinct from what I'm talking about. Even though we know more about the major events of this world than, say, with Mad Men, which is uncharted territory in many respects (which is a weird thing to say about a show that takes place in the 60s, but I hope you get what I mean; I'm referring to character arcs, rather than our foreknowledge of real life events), I still think that we shouldn't know about when those events are going to come into play. We shouldn't know if certain developments or characters are imminent. That's my view.
I mean (read at your own risk; although it seems like a lot of fans already know about this),
Fair point. Yep.
I disagree, but again, my problem isn't with the show itself telegraphing future events. So far, that has been fine. The example you're discussing, from the premiere episode of Season 2, is OK. I'm referring exclusively to Fuller going into too much detail about the structure and details of upcoming seasons. We've seen Hannibal before, but this is Fuller's mobilization of Hannibal, and that's unique. So, there's still an element of surprise here, and I don't think that should be compromised with too much prerelease talk.
As I type this out, though, I'm wary of chastising Fuller. I would just prefer the radio silence approach, but I guess this is a trifling matter in the end (i.e., I can just be more diligent in my avoidance of interviews and such). The only issue is when fans absorb all of this knowledge and take it for granted that others are familiar with the same things (I'm not referring to the books and existing films, but again to Fuller's comments, which specify structure, character appearances and plot details).
For reasons that are probably clear by now, I don't agree with this point.
So, he did let us know that Will would be out of the cell before the end of the season. I disagree on this point as well. I think I remember reading that, but I don't want to know these kinds of things. I want a season long incarceration to be a distinct possibility. It's not a colossal deal, but I just don't like being kept abreast of stuff like that.
He's acknowledging that wide swaths of the fanbase are familiar with the character and his world. There are surely many folks who aren't as familiar, of course. Either way, this is Fuller et al's presentation of that world, and it's already been inflected accordingly. The creative friction between this version of Hannibal and other versions is partly what's interesting about this show. A certain degree of secrecy is still of value, even in a context where many of us have already been introduced to certain events and characters.
Read ahead for examples of Season 3 details that have been already divulged:
Again, we can return to my the reasons I already provided: this is done because it consolidates the existing fanbase and caters to fans who are very much immersed in a culture of anticipation and/or are already familiar with these events and characters. This is important, especially given the show's arguably tenuous existence (with regards to being renewed, I mean). So, I can understand why he's doing it. Again, I don't want to overstate my claim as I know the experience of watching the third season will likely be exhilarating, even with foreknowledge of certain events. Still, I just wish I didn't know certain things and I wish I hadn't read a single interview. It's my fault, really.
Yes, this is true. Although, as someone who is only familiar with Demme, Scott, and Ratner's respective films, I'm not as well-versed in Hannibal lore as others. I wasn't familiar with the Minnesota Shrike, for instance (am I forgetting something from the films?).
Sure, yes. Although, I would qualify your assumption that everyone watching this show shares your level of familiarity with the character and his world (as it has been presented in literature and in cinema).
This doesn't really contest my central point, though. The appearance of Mason Verger was an inevitability, perhaps, but the specific timing of that event ought to have been a surprise. Did the fact that we knew when it was coming rob us of the performative qualities and the precise way that storyline was deployed? No. But it seems like Fuller keeps unnecessarily preparing us for these events (he even broke down the whole series, season by season, way back when, right?). Verger's appearance, among other things, shouldn't have been a telegraphed event. I can't recall; was Will's exit from prison also specified way in advance?
At the same time, I have to accept responsibility for the fact that I knew about these things because I read interviews. I should have adopted a more abstemious approach to spoilers. I'm trying to be more careful this time around.
Yes, of course. This is good. But it's also distinct from what I'm talking about. Even though we know more about the major events of this world than, say, with Mad Men, which is uncharted territory in many respects (which is a weird thing to say about a show that takes place in the 60s, but I hope you get what I mean; I'm referring to character arcs, rather than our foreknowledge of real life events), I still think that we shouldn't know about when those events are going to come into play. We shouldn't know if certain developments or characters are imminent. That's my view.
I mean (read at your own risk; although it seems like a lot of fans already know about this),
why did Fuller disclose that Raúl Esparza would be returning later on? This is more along the lines of what I'm talking about. Did we really need to hear that? That would have been an awesome surprise. Instead, it's like, "oh, yeah? Chilton? He's not really dead."
Fair point. Yep.
I disagree, but again, my problem isn't with the show itself telegraphing future events. So far, that has been fine. The example you're discussing, from the premiere episode of Season 2, is OK. I'm referring exclusively to Fuller going into too much detail about the structure and details of upcoming seasons. We've seen Hannibal before, but this is Fuller's mobilization of Hannibal, and that's unique. So, there's still an element of surprise here, and I don't think that should be compromised with too much prerelease talk.
As I type this out, though, I'm wary of chastising Fuller. I would just prefer the radio silence approach, but I guess this is a trifling matter in the end (i.e., I can just be more diligent in my avoidance of interviews and such). The only issue is when fans absorb all of this knowledge and take it for granted that others are familiar with the same things (I'm not referring to the books and existing films, but again to Fuller's comments, which specify structure, character appearances and plot details).
For reasons that are probably clear by now, I don't agree with this point.
So, he did let us know that Will would be out of the cell before the end of the season. I disagree on this point as well. I think I remember reading that, but I don't want to know these kinds of things. I want a season long incarceration to be a distinct possibility. It's not a colossal deal, but I just don't like being kept abreast of stuff like that.
He's acknowledging that wide swaths of the fanbase are familiar with the character and his world. There are surely many folks who aren't as familiar, of course. Either way, this is Fuller et al's presentation of that world, and it's already been inflected accordingly. The creative friction between this version of Hannibal and other versions is partly what's interesting about this show. A certain degree of secrecy is still of value, even in a context where many of us have already been introduced to certain events and characters.
Read ahead for examples of Season 3 details that have been already divulged:
Why did we need to know that Lady Murasaki is showing up in Season 3? Why did we need to know that the first episode of Season 3 is going to be exclusively about Bedelia and Hannibal? Why did we need to know that Francis Dolarhyde is appearing near the end of this season? We've already seen him, too? Why are we already confident that Alana is alive and well? I mean, come on.
Again, we can return to my the reasons I already provided: this is done because it consolidates the existing fanbase and caters to fans who are very much immersed in a culture of anticipation and/or are already familiar with these events and characters. This is important, especially given the show's arguably tenuous existence (with regards to being renewed, I mean). So, I can understand why he's doing it. Again, I don't want to overstate my claim as I know the experience of watching the third season will likely be exhilarating, even with foreknowledge of certain events. Still, I just wish I didn't know certain things and I wish I hadn't read a single interview. It's my fault, really.
Well, his character was in Silence of the Lambs but who knows.
Intheflorsh
Banned
RandyBobandy
Banned
Me too man
I've ignored everything
Geez, looking at the op did any actually die in the finale? Except for the girl that should've been dead anyway. Kinda sucks :/
Monocle
Member
God damn, the hype is real. And I thought S2 gave us Hannibal unhinged, or at least unleashed.
I'M MELTING
On the positive side, everyone involved in the finale plays trauma really well. I'm sure their survival can only lead to great character moments and a richer plot further down the line.
Den of Geek did an interview with Bryan Fuller about season 3, Red Dragon and American Gods, it's slightly spoiler-y for those concerned but it is a very good read.
It has insights such as:
It has insights such as:
but more importantly:
Anton Sugar
Member
Solo is gonna love this show even more now.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
What the hell. What were the producers thinking
General_Zod
Banned
I can not wait for this to start I love this show its just so good, its going to be interesting to see where all the pieces are following that season ending so hyped.
Anton Sugar
Member
Wow, I skipped over that first article. Seriously wtf. Can you imagine what the show would have been if they hadn't pushed it back?
Hope the producer(s) has learned their lesson.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That part was pure lunacy. I always got the impression of Hannibal being a rather cheap show that happened to be gorgeously shot, but that kind of penny pinching is just surreal in its veiled arrogance.
Like, "hey, this Fuller dude made one of the best shows on TV on a shoestring budget. Maybe we could cut it lower and we'd still have an above average product, right?".
Like, "hey, this Fuller dude made one of the best shows on TV on a shoestring budget. Maybe we could cut it lower and we'd still have an above average product, right?".
Psychoward
Banned
whatever happened to tagging spoilers from books and other movies?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm not sure what's the policy here, but the show barely resembles the books at this point.
For starters, Hannibal's origins will have to be vastly different in the show since his infancy took place during WW2 in the books (it goes without saying that Mads is too young for that), and Clarice won't show up due to licensing issues. I think tagging would be the polite thing to do, but don't sweat it.
At this point it is going to be difficult to be spoiled by anything but some character names.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I mean, that could be tagged, but at this point, the show is so different I don't know if that specific post really counts. "Character shows up later in the books" doesn't necessarily mean the same for the show 
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I wonder if we'll see Hannibal's first kill and there will be an element of revenge to it.
This show is especially weird since it deals with a character whose very existence in the popular culture is a very specific form that the show hasn't even gotten to yet (see example 1, example 2, example 3), which in itself is kind of a spoiler but also not since that is the image that permeated and stuck itself in film history, even for those who have never seen the movie or read the books.
It's a popular series of books, that became a popular series of movies, and the TV series is playing very fast and loose with how it is adapting the various versions of the source material. Fuller himself is very open about "spoiling" things about the show, confirming certain characters fates or laying out a very specific plot progression for the season/series, etc.
I usually hate this logic, but with this show it's especially true: Knowing a "spoiler" as it regards to the plot really doesn't hamper your enjoyment of the show, since the execution is so marvelous. It's not the "what" but the "how" that is so surprising and engrossing. Especially if that "spoiler" comes from the source material (either book or film), since there's no guarantee they will follow that exactly and half the fun of the show is seeing just how they twist and utilize elements from the book and make them their own unique things in the show.
It's a popular series of books, that became a popular series of movies, and the TV series is playing very fast and loose with how it is adapting the various versions of the source material. Fuller himself is very open about "spoiling" things about the show, confirming certain characters fates or laying out a very specific plot progression for the season/series, etc.
I usually hate this logic, but with this show it's especially true: Knowing a "spoiler" as it regards to the plot really doesn't hamper your enjoyment of the show, since the execution is so marvelous. It's not the "what" but the "how" that is so surprising and engrossing. Especially if that "spoiler" comes from the source material (either book or film), since there's no guarantee they will follow that exactly and half the fun of the show is seeing just how they twist and utilize elements from the book and make them their own unique things in the show.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, I can remember if I argued against that point with you or Bobby, but I've come around to it. The show is more about "how" than "what".
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I wrote an article about this once, specifically in regards to this show. I really do believe Fuller is running the show, and introducing aspects, that really only fully pay off if you know about the books and the previous movies. Subverting/playing off those previous installments is absolutely part of the reason this works the way it does. Not to say it doesn't work on its own, without any prior knowledge, but this show is absolutely structured to work even though most people have already been (technically) "spoiled" by the story of Hannibal Lecter.
Nice article. I don't recall if I had read that last season and just internalized it, or if this is the first time I'm reading it and just came to a very similar conclusion worded almost identically
But yeah, I agree. It's why a gag like the Freddie fakeout last season is so fun and effective, because anyone familiar with the book or movies knows what the flaming wheelchair is.
Huh. I must have read this article without looking at the byline, or I would probably would have realized it was you. Well, now I just feel oblivious. D:
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nice article. I don't recall if I had read that last season and just internalized it, or if this is the first time I'm reading it and just came to a very similar conclusion worded almost identically
We are slowly, as this show continues on, beginning to share the same brain.
AuthenticM
Member
Can't wait.
Indeed.
Dancy indeed confirms that there will be changes to the story (doesn't go into specifics, obviously).
The One Who Knocks
Member
Not that I disagree with the rest, but I think something here that also needs to be considered is that the show has already employed quite a few fake dates (Abigail the first time, Miriam, Chilton, Freddie, and Dr. Gideon; while some of these are a case of no official statement being made about their death, it's a similar case to the final of the previous season) so if Abigail is the only one to die it could understandably be viewed as the show being too non-committal in making big decisions with the primary characters (as Abigail was, for all purposes, a minor character by the time the episode aired). As you say though, season 3 will really have to carry the burden of making the impact of Mizumono stick even with the knowledge of what is to follow it. I must admit that I'm quite surprised myself that they've allowed both Jack and Alana to survive, even if I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing depending on where they go with it.
Supercollider
Banned
One thing that I didn't mind hearing about in advance is the fact that
will be directing an episode this season. Very cool.
Guillermo del Toro
Anton Sugar
Member
That was a mixup/miscommunication on the De Laurentiis team's part
Wait, so no Del Toro?
Supercollider
Banned
That was a mixup/miscommunication on the De Laurentiis team's part
Oh, really? I remember seeing a tweet where they confirmed it wasn't an April Fool's joke or something. That's too bad.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, it wasn't an April Fool's joke at all, as you noted. However, they later confirmed that it was a genuine misunderstanding between the two parties.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Next Thursday?
I think the show has done a good job of training us to not automatically assume any character is dead after something that normally would kill someone happens (off the top of my head: Abigail, Gideon, Chilton, Miriam). Just happened too many times to too many characters where I think it's a little less cheap to have three of the four survive.
Chilton is, of course, the MVP here.
That, and I think they'll make it very clear that Hannibal killed exactly who he wanted to kill and expertly wounded exactly who he wanted to wound, which also fits his character well enough to keep survivors from coming across as cheap.
Edit: I see this has been somewhat discussed a little farther into the thread, but leaving it anyway.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Chilton is the MVP, period.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Just came across this official season 2 catch-up video that was posted about a month ago. It's a good, condensed 6ish minute reminder of just how fucking good this show is.
Psychoward
Banned
is there one for S1 as well?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Five bucks says Chilton returns looking like this:
Maybe they'll give him an eyepatch! The more he's injured, the more his swag magnifies!
"Jack... I'm already a demon."
Maybe they'll give him an eyepatch! The more he's injured, the more his swag magnifies!
"Jack... I'm already a demon."
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Damn, bottom of page:
Five bucks says Chilton returns looking like this:
Maybe they'll give him an eyepatch! The more he's injured, the more his swag magnifies!
"Jack... I'm already a demon."
Five bucks says Chilton returns looking like this:
Maybe they'll give him an eyepatch! The more he's injured, the more his swag magnifies!
"Jack... I'm already a demon."
SchrodingerC
Member
Damn, bottom of page:
Five bucks says Chilton returns looking like this:
Maybe they'll give him an eyepatch! The more he's injured, the more his swag magnifies!
"Jack... I'm already a demon."
But I thought Chilton got shot in the cheek, or am I misremembering?
I just hope Chilton comes back in any capacity...
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He got shot in the left cheek, yeah.
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