Has Nintendo lost its mojo?
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
Variahunter
Member
Most of their games after the Wii era are a bit overrated, yes. But sometimes they still can produce revolutionary games like BotW, very influential, even if it has many flaws.
But the golden era Nintendo (NES/SNES/N64 and a bit of GC) ?
They were just untouchable and all the industry were trying to keep up, depending of the genre of course.
Like RPG, shooters or Fighting games were never their focus, even if Smash Bros Melee is probably the most technical fighting game ever...
Dampf
Member
True, DKTF is easily a 90+ game. Better than Returns in every way.I always remember these three reviews when I hear metacritic doom and gloom
People were just displeased it wasn't Metroid back in the day (including me)
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
The overwhelming response from players has been "the previous one was better" for dozens of big IPs for 20+ years.
Just a few from the last few years:
TLOU2? 1 was better
Ragnarok? GOW 2018 was better
Spider-Man 2? 1 was better
Pokemon? Gold/Silver/Platinum/BW/SM was better.
Zelda? Twilight Princess was better
Mario Kart World is great, but coming after what is arguably the best game in the series and a game that has occupied and dominated its specific niche of the market for 10 years, it's hard to be excited for the new game.
The same will happen with the next Smash Bros. Good luck being greater that Ultimate.
I think the overwhelming response from players is just like a review - an opinion that may differ from yours, and is influenced by several biases.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
This is what happens when you got a bunch of Bank Suits in charge of the company.
It's no longer about the player experience or doing right by your customers it's all about squeezing pennies out of consumer base.
- There's no more Nintendo Club rewards
- There's no more Nintendo Select titles
- There's no more Nintendo Vouchers
- Their Hardware prices are out of control (a set of Joy Cons cost $109 here in Chicago)
- They had the gall to introduce the $80 price tag to the industry
- Regardless of rime or reason they have essentially given themselves (Poketopia) and 3rd party developers an out and they don't even have to release real physical games anymore
We the consumers were in a better position when Nintendo was struggling to be relevant and I miss the Reggie/Iwata era.
It's no longer about the player experience or doing right by your customers it's all about squeezing pennies out of consumer base.
- There's no more Nintendo Club rewards
- There's no more Nintendo Select titles
- There's no more Nintendo Vouchers
- Their Hardware prices are out of control (a set of Joy Cons cost $109 here in Chicago)
- They had the gall to introduce the $80 price tag to the industry
- Regardless of rime or reason they have essentially given themselves (Poketopia) and 3rd party developers an out and they don't even have to release real physical games anymore
We the consumers were in a better position when Nintendo was struggling to be relevant and I miss the Reggie/Iwata era.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
If you were paying attention, you saw all this coming a mile away.
MP4 is already a project that was being salvaged in the first place. People often cite myamoto upending the tea table like it's something good, when in reality is just a last effort to make something interesting with a project that already is turning out very mediocre.
Pokemon has being mediocre for close to a decade now. They never adapted their pipeline for HD consoles.
Hyrule warriors have been mediocre from conception. This is the 4th game on this subseries. Why would anyone expect it to improve dramatically?
Kirby was already a sequel to a niche game. The thing most people probably missed is that this game is Nintendo first attempt on shortening game dev cycles. Sakurai developed this in 3 years, what is quick these days. And it shows, obviously.
Mario kart World is a half step. They wanted to do something different while keeping something from the previous series. After re releasing Mario kart 8, people asked themselves how would they go beyond that. The answer: they can't. So they did world, just to say they are doing something not possible on previous hardware... Even if that thing is not necessarily fun.
DragxDrive and Nintendo tour are both games that should not exist in the state they did. Nintendo really tested how far they could squeeze the audience.
But, to he fair... Fuck people that only care about Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. I do praise Nintendo for trying to use other IPs this time, even when they tried that with game cube and wiiu, it didn't worked out. Hopefully they eventually get a hit there.
MP4 is already a project that was being salvaged in the first place. People often cite myamoto upending the tea table like it's something good, when in reality is just a last effort to make something interesting with a project that already is turning out very mediocre.
Pokemon has being mediocre for close to a decade now. They never adapted their pipeline for HD consoles.
Hyrule warriors have been mediocre from conception. This is the 4th game on this subseries. Why would anyone expect it to improve dramatically?
Kirby was already a sequel to a niche game. The thing most people probably missed is that this game is Nintendo first attempt on shortening game dev cycles. Sakurai developed this in 3 years, what is quick these days. And it shows, obviously.
Mario kart World is a half step. They wanted to do something different while keeping something from the previous series. After re releasing Mario kart 8, people asked themselves how would they go beyond that. The answer: they can't. So they did world, just to say they are doing something not possible on previous hardware... Even if that thing is not necessarily fun.
DragxDrive and Nintendo tour are both games that should not exist in the state they did. Nintendo really tested how far they could squeeze the audience.
But, to he fair... Fuck people that only care about Mario, Zelda and Pokemon. I do praise Nintendo for trying to use other IPs this time, even when they tried that with game cube and wiiu, it didn't worked out. Hopefully they eventually get a hit there.
Davevil
Late October Surprise
In what universe is the quality of games measured by the number of consoles sold?
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
This one. Games sell hardware.
Davevil
Late October Surprise
Trilobit
Absolutely Cozy
Some games I remember as games, others as experiences. Prey falls in the latter category. It truly was like visiting that space station. Some weaknesses with sidecharacter writing and some wokeness, but otherwise it gave me one of my most memorable gaming memories.I always remember these three reviews when I hear metacritic doom and gloom
Rat Rage
Member
Changing something just for the sake of "being different", without considering whether or not it actually improves the overall gaming experience, is a sign of really bad decision making in video game development (or pretty much any other field). Needlessly following instustry trends will ultimately lead to mediocrity and weaken you intellectual property not in the short term, but in the long run.
Hiroshi Yamauchi and Satoru Iwata understood that well, eventhough they did mistakes in other aspects (Yamachi not realising the importance of JRPGs and the disc format and Iwata for the whole Wii U disaster).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroshi_Yamauchi
Mozza
Member
So basically the XBOX has the best games, even though the PS5 is selling far more hardware.
Mozza
Member
Very selective view of history, the Wii U did not fail because of it's games, it failed because most of the casual gamers that made the Wii a success had simply moved onto other things. The 3DS had a similar issue on a slightly smaller scale.
Tell that to the N64 exclusive that is considered the best game ever made.
Nintendo consistently made some of the best games of the generation with "failed" consoles.
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Hyet
Member
The Swicth 1 was so great not only because of the form factor but because it had games that were massive steps forward from the get go and consistently during all its life:
Breath of the Wild redefined open world games in a landscape filled with ubisoft's trash maps full of checklists
Mario Oddissey brought back 3D colectathon games raising a new bar for them including insane movement tech and kirby-like copy habilities
Xenoblade 2 brought back story focus into the series and improved combat and acessibility
Smash became the biggest fighting game ever in every sense of the word
Fire Emblem brough the series back to a console experience and finally included all the routes with great replay value
Animal Crossing let you decorate and terraform open spaces as well increasing customization in a way that's hard to meassure
Metroid Dread brougt the sidescrolling series into 3D and HD improving movement, combat, narrative setting a new benchmark for the series.
Etc, etc, etc...
What has Swicth 2 exclusive software brought?
Mario Kart World is an open wold racer that feels amazing to control but the oper world has nothing to do, forces you to play highway trails instead of letting you enjoy the good, interesting circuits that there are actually in there.
DK Bananza is a good game, but 90% of the game is punching a wall or the ground until you find something, and when you find it, move on to punch another wall. Janky camera, no enemy variety... I'm glad DK has a nice 3D game now, but are they going to make a series about mostly punching stuff?
DragxDrive is a joke game that nobody asked for.
Hyrule Warriors is... a musou game and a very repetitive one at that almost doing away with the strategy factor.
Kirby Airiders is Sakurai's chance to polish his gamecube turd. He surely perfected it, but I rather have him making worthwhile games instead of an obtuse variety game that people are not gonna choose over Mario Kart and that you basically played 25 years ago.
Metroid Prime 4 a polarizing game, exactly the kind of game you want to release into a a very revered and hardcore series during the first months of you new console in the market... and it's not even a Switch 2 exclusive.
Where's the "Nintendo really stepped it up" game this generation? Swicth 2 is the first time a Nintendo console substantially increases in power in more than 10 years. What do they have to show for it? When WiiU appeared they were able to make an statement with Xenoblade X. Where's that game here? Where's that X10 Switch 1 power materializing into amazing games?
All the full priced games are solid and the console is great as a device but Nintendo is absolutely NOT on the hot streak they were with Switch 1.
Breath of the Wild redefined open world games in a landscape filled with ubisoft's trash maps full of checklists
Mario Oddissey brought back 3D colectathon games raising a new bar for them including insane movement tech and kirby-like copy habilities
Xenoblade 2 brought back story focus into the series and improved combat and acessibility
Smash became the biggest fighting game ever in every sense of the word
Fire Emblem brough the series back to a console experience and finally included all the routes with great replay value
Animal Crossing let you decorate and terraform open spaces as well increasing customization in a way that's hard to meassure
Metroid Dread brougt the sidescrolling series into 3D and HD improving movement, combat, narrative setting a new benchmark for the series.
Etc, etc, etc...
What has Swicth 2 exclusive software brought?
Mario Kart World is an open wold racer that feels amazing to control but the oper world has nothing to do, forces you to play highway trails instead of letting you enjoy the good, interesting circuits that there are actually in there.
DK Bananza is a good game, but 90% of the game is punching a wall or the ground until you find something, and when you find it, move on to punch another wall. Janky camera, no enemy variety... I'm glad DK has a nice 3D game now, but are they going to make a series about mostly punching stuff?
DragxDrive is a joke game that nobody asked for.
Hyrule Warriors is... a musou game and a very repetitive one at that almost doing away with the strategy factor.
Kirby Airiders is Sakurai's chance to polish his gamecube turd. He surely perfected it, but I rather have him making worthwhile games instead of an obtuse variety game that people are not gonna choose over Mario Kart and that you basically played 25 years ago.
Metroid Prime 4 a polarizing game, exactly the kind of game you want to release into a a very revered and hardcore series during the first months of you new console in the market... and it's not even a Switch 2 exclusive.
Where's the "Nintendo really stepped it up" game this generation? Swicth 2 is the first time a Nintendo console substantially increases in power in more than 10 years. What do they have to show for it? When WiiU appeared they were able to make an statement with Xenoblade X. Where's that game here? Where's that X10 Switch 1 power materializing into amazing games?
All the full priced games are solid and the console is great as a device but Nintendo is absolutely NOT on the hot streak they were with Switch 1.
MayauMiao
Member
Maybe in Spain.
Rat Rage
Member
My Yamauchi comment doesn't refer to the Wii U or its games, it refers to his failure to secure Final Fantasy for his Super Nintendo successor (N64) as well as using a DC Drive for it. The Wii U failed beause it had the most misleading and poorely excecuted marketing in video game history and because of the fact that the Gamepad itself sucked concept- and execution-wise.
Mozza
Member
You can tell yourself all of that but it's simply not the reason the Wii U failed. No amount of marketing or quality will be enough when the userbase is simply not there. I agree with you on the N64, but of course there is far more to that story with the fact Nintendo pulled out of a joint venture with Sony to produce the successor to the SNES.
Davevil
Late October Surprise
Midway-AGNC-
Member
I also agree with the people saying that Nintendo has lost much of the distinctive edge it used to have and can no longer replicate the same impact and legacy of many of its original games. Ever since Iwata took over the company, the trend has increasingly been to turn it into a proprietary-management company, avoiding risks, playing it safe, and aiming for maximum profit. That's why I said in my previous post that they've basically been operating with an indie or handheld mindset — small studios, small teams — and they want to apply that mentality to AAA games where people naturally expect results that match that level.
I especially think that Nintendo today survives off the legacy and strength of its franchises and the image it built during the NES, SNES, N64 and even the GCN era, and it simply doesn't want to leave its comfort zone.
I actually think it's good for a thread like this to exist, calling out Nintendo's complacency and lack of ambition, because the decline in quality across their games is becoming increasingly visible. Thanks to the Switch's success, they settled into a comfortable cycle and convinced themselves they didn't need to modernize or adapt to the industry's new standards.
I especially think that Nintendo today survives off the legacy and strength of its franchises and the image it built during the NES, SNES, N64 and even the GCN era, and it simply doesn't want to leave its comfort zone.
I actually think it's good for a thread like this to exist, calling out Nintendo's complacency and lack of ambition, because the decline in quality across their games is becoming increasingly visible. Thanks to the Switch's success, they settled into a comfortable cycle and convinced themselves they didn't need to modernize or adapt to the industry's new standards.
Mozza
Member
The Switch 2 has offered a similar situation as the PS4 did to the PS5, and the fact it's trending better sales wise tells you it's working.... Pretty sure many one here are selectively forgetting it took a while for the PS5 to get new games. But of course it's a continuation of their current system so there is loads of stuff to already play...... Just like with the Switch 2..... as unfortunately our opinion on here never affect the wider buying public.
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Mozza
Member
You are suggesting it's only the experts on niche forums like this that should be taken seriously. But you fail to see the clue is in the term "Minority" lol..
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
True WiiU had one of the best gaming lineups. They sold well on the Switch.
Ceadeus
Member
They've brought the world decades' worth of entertainment through some of the longest-running legendary characters and by creating genre-defining games. I don't think this will ever be replicated. I feel like they've earned a break without us calling it complacency or a lack of ambition.
Matsuchezz
Member
In what world they have the best games? The reason they are in such a bad shape, it's because their games suck! and I mean the first party.
Mozza
Member
It was sarcasm.
In what world they have the best games? The reason they are in such a bad shape, it's because their games suck! and I mean the first party.
Midway-AGNC-
Member
That's a very incomplete (and honestly misleading) reading of what actually happened. Blaming "casual gamers leaving" is a convenient narrative, but it ignores all the structural issues that were already dragging Nintendo down at the end of the Wii era.
The casual audience didn't suddenly vanish because of the Wii U. They were already gone by the final years of the Wii. The console completely collapsed in its last stretch — it died years earlier than the PS3 and Xbox 360 despite having sold far more units. If the casuals were still engaged, that wouldn't have happened. They weren't buying software, they weren't sticking around, and they certainly weren't going to transition to a more expensive, confusing successor.
So saying the Wii U failed "because casuals moved on" oversimplifies everything to the point of being useless. It ignores Nintendo's poor messaging, the confusing branding, the lack of third-party support, the slow OS, the droughts of software, and the fact that many of Nintendo's core fans didn't see a reason to upgrade because the system didn't feel like a meaningful evolution. And on top of all that, launching a console in 2012 with effectively the same graphical power as the PS3 and Xbox 360 — right when the demand for a true next-gen experience was skyrocketing — was a massive strategic misstep. Players wanted a generational jump, not a lateral move with a gimmick controller.
The Wii U didn't fail because casual gamers abandoned ship. They had already abandoned ship before the Wii U even launched. The console failed because Nintendo built a successor around an audience that no longer existed and then failed to appeal strongly enough to the audience that did remain.
Reducing the whole thing to "casuals left" is not only inaccurate — it completely misses the real lessons.
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fallingdove
Member
Ignoring the moving goalposts (Kirby, Hyrule Warriors and Pokémon should be good — the Nintendo "seal of quality" is still overseeing their development), MP4 made a number of mistakes that it shouldn't have, especially given how iconic and established the Metroid formula has become.
Reading the reviews for MP4, I think outlets still threw Nintendo a bone for nostalgia's sake. An 80 metacritic seems high when critics are talking about a lack of gameplay innovation, an empty/lifeless world, motorcycle-desert filler, awful dialogue, and out of place characters.
I'm hoping that Nintendo's latest string of stumbles are a fluke and we're not seeing Star Fox-level catastrophe with their franchises.