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[Bartski]

Weakest episode yet, still ok but felt like a filler before the next.

The show is at its best when they copy pasta from the game.

The show is at its worst when they copy pasta from the game.

The whole scene in the car with the mag felt like forced fan service, none of it is necessary while they steer this far from the game plot. Bella works as Ellie only in this alternative universe, when they're mimicking the game it just feels off somehow ... maybe I'm biased.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Not expecting to die doesn't mean she wasn't willing to die. She questioned Joel because she didn't believe his story and wanted him to tell the truth and she didn't believe him. Joel saved Ellie because he loved her, he lied to her because he knew what she wanted to do. This was confirmed in Part II. No matter how you try to spin it, everything we're saying was confirmed in part II.

I'll assume Ellie's willing to die under certain conditions but I seriously doubt the conditions we see in the game would qualify for her. Joel saved Ellie because she had given signs she wants a future with him, this is enough doubt to not simply let her get killed without ever talking to her first. We're already been over that Joel could also be lying to spare Ellie's feelings that he killed people she looked up to but who turned out the be thugs.

There's no context missed. What people suspected after Part I was confirmed in Part II. Joel had a choice to make the right decision and Marlene gave him the opportunity. Joel killed Marlene because he didn't want her coming after Ellie, aka, finding out the truth and making her decision.

What the Fireflies did to Joel is the missing context, we can't say for sure Ellie would be fine with it and would want the operation to continue while Joel's life was in peril. If you're talking about the Marlene scene after the elevator I'd say it was too late also, Joel and Ellie were getting shot at and surgeon he killed was probably irreplicable. I took "You'd just come after her" as Marlene would track down Ellie to take Ellie away from him(forcibly or not).

You want to believe all choices outside of Joel's decisions is wrong when. Everyone acted based on what they believe was right and it was a selfish choice.

No matter what you say, Ellie sacrificed her life and she didn't believe what Joel said at the end of TLOU. Niel confirmed it so there's no point in denying it at this point.

Nah, I think Joel's lying is wrong of him to do and unnecessary with the info the game shows of the hospital situation. Was Joel's choice entirely selfish though? He put his life on the line to defend Ellie, I hardly can call that purely selfish. The lying about it is dumb, yeah.

What do you mean sacrifice? She didn't lose her life or anything. All she knows for certain is that Joel is hiding something and that's probably the start of certain deterioration of their relationship.

Authors can comment on their work but what ultimately matters if their work supports that they say, "death of the author" and all.

I mean I don't even know if he knew who Joel was... let alone not wanting to inform him. Regardless, you kill someone's dad and they're probably going to come after you... that's kind of the point here.

Marlene says she's going to tell Joel and Jerry asks why. Seems like he knew but if he didn't, he did after Marlene told him Joel was the one who brought Ellie.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Goes to show the limits of what we humans perceive and mean by truth. And yet we can't just wait for the whole picture, we gotta move on with what we've got.

But in this case we had a witness(Joel) to tell what really happened but he gives a half-assed explanation making himself look like a butcher too, it comes off as strange.

 

[Roni]

But in this case we had a witness(Joel) to tell what really happened but he gives a half-assed explanation making himself look like a butcher too, it comes off as strange.

He had already lied to Ellie, she wouldn't trust him after that. No point in even trying and pissing her off even more.

Matter of fact, had Joel told the truth from the start there'd be a good chance she'd jump from the car and head straight back there. Even despite everything that happened.

 

[Ulysses 31]

He had already lied to Ellie, she wouldn't trust him after that. No point in even trying and pissing her off even more.

She asked him to tell the truth or she'd leave him so I assume Ellie is willing to believe Joel that time.

Matter of fact, had Joel told the truth from the start there'd be a good chance she'd jump from the car and head straight back there. Even despite everything that happened.

Depends what she thinks of the thuggish behaviour of the Fireflies towards Joel and if she agreed with what he ultimately did. She might have a target on her back too because of Joel.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Last nights episode was pretty good, I know Neil told Bella not to play the game so she can go and blind, but there’s no way she did not at least watch gameplay, because some of her delivery is almost identical to Ashley’s.

100% on the "How does he even walk around with that thing?!?!" Lol

 

[DForce]

I'll assume Ellie's willing to die under certain conditions but I seriously doubt the conditions we see in the game would qualify for her. Joel saved Ellie because she had given signs she wants a future with him, this is enough doubt to not simply let her get killed without ever talking to her first. We're already been over that Joel could also be lying to spare Ellie's feelings that he killed people she looked up to but who turned out the be thugs.

There's not enough doubt based on what we heard Ellie say in Part II.

What the Fireflies did to Joel is the missing context, we can't say for sure Ellie would be fine with it and would want the operation to continue while Joel's life was in peril. If you're talking about the Marlene scene after the elevator I'd say it was too late also, Joel and Ellie were getting shot at and surgeon he killed was probably irreplicable. I took "You'd just come after her" as Marlene would track down Ellie to take Ellie away from him(forcibly or not).

The context is irrelevant. Ellie is smart enough to piece together what happened. It's practically common sense that Joel fought his way to Ellie and stopped the surgery, they weren't going to let that happen unless Joel fought his way to her and out of there.

I've seen Critical Drinker bring up this point before and you shared his video. That's where I believe you got this point from and it doesn't make sense.

Nah, I think Joel's lying is wrong of him to do and unnecessary with the info the game shows of the hospital situation. Was Joel's choice entirely selfish though? He put his life on the line to defend Ellie, I hardly can call that purely selfish. The lying about it is dumb, yeah.

What do you mean sacrifice? She didn't lose her life or anything. All she knows for certain is that Joel is hiding something and that's probably the start of certain deterioration of their relationship.

Authors can comment on their work but what ultimately matters if their work supports that they say, "death of the author" and all.

I mean Ellie would've sacrificed her life. That was made clear in part II. Ellie knew enough as found in Part II and it didn't change her mind, which means it wouldn't matter. Joel was selfish because he knew what Ellie would have done and he stopped her from making that choice.

The author commented on what most people already knew. There's so much evidence proving that they didn't retcon the story.

 

[skneogaf]

The story is garbage compared to the game

Non related thing :

The floor in that particular scene is definitely usable in a gears of war movie or TV series.

 

[Ulysses 31]

There's not enough doubt based on what we heard Ellie say in Part II.

She's saying it based on incomplete information.

The context is irrelevant. Ellie is smart enough to piece together what happened. It's practically common sense that Joel fought his way to Ellie and stopped the surgery, they weren't going to let that happen unless Joel fought his way to her and out of there.

How is context irrelevant? You can learn of things that can change your perspective, shift who you side with, etc. Without any further details/context, TLOU2 makes it look like Joel started killing unprovoked to stop the surgery when we both know that's not how it went down in TLOU1.

I've seen Critical Drinker bring up this point before and you shared his video. That's where I believe you got this point from and it doesn't make sense.

Not sure what point I and Critical Drinker share, it's been a long while since I saw a TLOU video from him.

I mean Ellie would've sacrificed her life. That was made clear in part II. Ellie knew enough as found in Part II and it didn't change her mind, which means it wouldn't matter. Joel was selfish because he knew what Ellie would have done and he stopped her from making that choice.

TLOU2 Ellie is working with incomplete information and went through years of bitterness and resentment probably affecting her judgement. I don't think she can speak for what TLOU1 Ellie would've done.

The author commented on what most people already knew. There's so much evidence proving that they didn't retcon the story.

"Death of the author/Birth of the reader". You should familiarize yourself with it, basically it means you see the author and the work as separate entities and the work standing on its own. The author cannot dictate how his work should be interpreted, the work can only be judged by the work itself, aka if it's not in the book/game/movie it's something to be disregarded.

Authors can give insight on certain things and tell their interpretation but ultimately it's judged against what's in the works.

 

[DForce]

She's saying it based on incomplete information.

How is context irrelevant? You can learn of things that can change your perspective, shift who you side with, etc. Without any further details/context, TLOU2 makes it look like Joel started killing unprovoked to stop the surgery when we both know that's not how it went down in TLOU1.

Not sure what point I and Critical Drinker share, it's been a long while since I saw a TLOU video from him.

You're bringing up Joel being forced to leave at gunpoint without his bags. It's irrelevant because Ellie is smart enough to figure out what happened. Joel wouldn't kill them unless she took her, and they wouldn't let her have her for obvious reasons.

This is why it's irrelevant.

TLOU2 Ellie is working with incomplete information and went through years of bitterness and resentment probably affecting her judgement. I don't think she can speak for what TLOU1 Ellie would've done.

"Death of the author/Birth of the reader". You should familiarize yourself with it, basically it means you see the author and the work as separate entities and the work standing on its own. The author cannot dictate how his work should be interpreted, the work can only be judged by the work itself, aka if it's not in the book/game/movie it's something to be disregarded.

Authors can give insight on certain things and tell their interpretation but ultimately it's judged against what's in the works.

Ellie is the same. Neil didn't have to say it, it confirmed what we already knew. This point was carried over to the last game. There's evidence that goes against your narrative. At a certain point, it becomes denial. The same points are being carried over in the HBO show, if it was a retcon, then they would change the first season's narrative.

 

[Ulysses 31]

You're bringing up Joel being forced to leave at gunpoint without his bags. It's irrelevant because Ellie is smart enough to figure out what happened. Joel wouldn't kill them unless she took her, and they wouldn't let her have her for obvious reasons.

This is why it's irrelevant.

It counts as a provocation against Joel and his life being put in danger if he lets himself get stranded without his gear. Besides, he needs his gear to put up a fight and come to Ellie's defence. I wouldn't call that irrelevant. Ellie never finds out the Fireflies were going to strand Joel somewhere dangerous without his gear so Ellie is judging with incomplete information.

Ellie is the same. Neil didn't have to say it, it confirmed what we already knew. This point was carried over to the last game. There's evidence that goes against your narrative. At a certain point, it becomes denial. The same points are being carried over in the HBO show, if it was a retcon, then they would change the first season's narrative.

Sure she's the 4 years older Ellie from TLOU1 gone through years of resentment and bitterness. It's not a stretch to assume TLOU2 Ellie would have different opinions and make different choices than TLOU1 Ellie(character arc).

 

[simpatico]

For me the show struggles when it's showing anything other than "gameplay". The longer dialog-y scenes can be brutal. The boss ladies of the fireflies test my immersion. Seems to be a trope from super hero movies that got sprinkled in here. Still more good than bad so far. I'll try to catch episode 4 tonight.

 

[DForce]

It counts as a provocation against Joel and his life being put in danger if he lets himself get stranded without his gear. Besides, he needs his gear to put up a fight and come to Ellie's defence. I wouldn't call that irrelevant. Ellie never finds out the Fireflies were going to strand Joel somewhere dangerous without his gear so Ellie is judging with incomplete information.

Oh yeah, Joel not being able to leave without his gear is going to make Ellie say, "They were going to let you leave without your gear? I'm sorry, Joel!"

That's not going to work. Joel could say, "I had my gear as soon as I was about to leave and Marlene gave me a chance to give you up, but I shot her because I didn't want her to come after you.

Sure she's the 4 years older Ellie from TLOU1 gone through years of resentment and bitterness. It's not a stretch to assume TLOU2 Ellie would have different opinions and make different choices than TLOU1 Ellie(character arc).

She would've been mad at Joel 4 years earlier for taking her out. Joel knew this and that's why he lied. The way and the tone in which Ellie asked Joel the question at the end says a lot.

 

[hinch7]

Finished watching this weeks ep and found it pretty good. Not as great as one and two, but a lot more entertaining than episode 3. Mainly as we got to see more of Joel and Ellie and their bond growing. That and we finally get introduced to

Spoiler

FEDRA

and get see the

Spoiler

ambush

Could do with a little more action though.

One another plus.. Bella Ramsey did a much better job as playing Ellie in this one, which is cool to see.

 

[Teletraan1]

But would you call it straight propaganda though?

I have nothing against gay people but they are massively over represented in modern media. The entire LGBT is around 5-6% of the population but you would think they are 50%+ of the population when interacting with most TV/Movies/Games. They are also used as shields for criticism along with minorities for poor storytelling. It is pretty exploitive actually.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Oh yeah, Joel not being able to leave without his gear is going to make Ellie say, "They were going to let you leave without your gear? I'm sorry, Joel!"

That's not going to work. Joel could say, "I had my gear as soon as I was about to leave and Marlene gave me a chance to give you up, but I shot her because I didn't want her to come after you.

Not sure what you're arguing against here. They were gonna kick Joel out without his gear in an infested Salt Lake City, did you see how many infected Joel and Ellie had to go through before they got close to the hospital? So rather than Joel letting them do that he fights to get his gear back and then come to Ellie's defence. Don't see how any of this ties with what you wrote about leaving without his gear.

IMO Joel should've told Ellie the truth, the whole truth and let her judge if what he did was good or bad all things considering. But perhaps that would've taken too much away from the ambiguity of the game.

She would've been mad at Joel 4 years earlier for taking her out. Joel knew this and that's why he lied. The way and the tone in which Ellie asked Joel the question at the end says a lot.

Not immediately, she goes along with Joel's deception at first because she still loves him at the end of TLOU1, remember?

 

[DForce]

Not sure what you're arguing against here. They were gonna kick Joel out without his gear in an infested Salt Lake City, did you see how many infected Joel and Ellie had to go through before they got close to the hospital? So rather than Joel letting them do that he fights to get his gear back and then come to Ellie's defence. Don't see how any of this ties with what you wrote about leaving without his gear.

You're saying Ellie didn't know the context of what happened. I'm telling you that it's irrelevant because it wouldn't sway her decision one way or another, and it won't stop her anger towards Joel

Not immediately, she goes along with Joel's deception at first because she still loves him at the end of TLOU1, remember?

What are you talking about? Joel told the lie to Ellie, and then right after that, Ellie asked Joel the question if everything he said about the Fireflies was true. If Joel told her the truth right there, she would've been upset with him.

 

[Roni]

She asked him to tell the truth or she'd leave him so I assume Ellie is willing to believe Joel that time.

Depends what she thinks of the thuggish behaviour of the Fireflies towards Joel and if she agreed with what he ultimately did. She might have a target on her back too because of Joel.

Joel told her straight up what it would cost to make the vaccine in the flashback, she knew she was out cold. What more is there to say? We seem to be going in circles here because you don't like TLOU2. The only major retcon is who the doctor was and his role in the events of the second game. The rest has been there from the very first game...

 

[Ulysses 31]

You're saying Ellie didn't know the context of what happened. I'm telling you that it's irrelevant because it wouldn't sway her decision one way or another, and it won't stop her anger towards Joel

If Ellie cares about Joel, why wouldn't it sway her if she finds out the Fireflies treated Joel very badly and probably were getting him killed by stranding him without his gear?

What are you talking about? Joel told the lie to Ellie, and then right after that, Ellie asked Joel the question if everything he said about the Fireflies was true. If Joel told her the truth right there, she would've been upset with him.

Yeah and Ellie's final "OK" is her going along with Joel's lie for the time being as in not questioning it anymore for the moment, doesn't mean she wasn't suspicious anymore. I doubt it was just a sarcastic "OK" considering how Ellie looks in the scene.

 

[DForce]

If Ellie cares about Joel, why wouldn't it sway her if she finds out the Fireflies treated Joel very badly and probably were getting him killed by stranding him without his gear?

Joel doesn't get out with Ellie unless he fought his way to take her out of there. Ellie is smart enough to figure that out. Dude, seriously, this isn't working. I'm sure you pulled this from that YouTuber lol

Yeah and Ellie's final "OK" is her going along with Joel's lie for the time being as in not questioning it anymore for the moment, doesn't mean she accepted it as truth. I doubt it was just a sarcastic "OK" considering how Ellie looks in the scene.

It was obvious in her expression that she didn't believe him, but she couldn't confirm that he was truly lying. This is why Ellie went back to the hospital to confirm it. Knowing finally knowing the truth is a different feeling than just being highly suspicious.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Joel told her straight up what it would cost to make the vaccine in the flashback, she knew she was out cold. What more is there to say?

And leaves out all the aggression of the Fireflies towards Joel, that there were going to get him killed stranding him without his gear, that the last time he saw her alive was when she nearly drowned and unconscious, that he wasn't allowed to see if she was OK.

We seem to be going in circles here because you want TLOU2 to be a poorly written game that retcons tons of stuff from the first game. The only retcon is who the doctor was and his role in the events of the second game. The rest has been there from the very first game.

I just can't think of a good reason to leave out so much of what happened at the hospital in TLOU1 from TLOU2 other than trying to gaslight players(bad faith).

 

[Roni]

And leaves out all the aggression of the Fireflies towards Joel, that there were going to get him killed stranding him without his gear, that the last time he saw her alive was when she nearly drowned and unconscious, that he wasn't allowed to see if she was OK.

The Fireflies are a militia, Ellie was raised by an army. There's no need to explain any of that. She knew she headed into the hospital voluntarily...

I just can't think of a good reason to leave out so much of what happened at the hospital in TLOU1 from TLOU2 other than trying to gaslight players(bad faith).

You're doing mental gymnastics here, the game is called Part 2. It requires a part 1 to be understood: you're expected to have played the first game or accept you won't have the full picture. There's no bad faith or gaslighting, the game is right there and Sony would love for you to pay for it and play it.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Joel doesn't get out with Ellie unless he fought his way to take her out of there. Ellie is smart enough to figure that out. Dude, seriously, this isn't working. I'm sure you pulled this from that YouTuber lol

Yes and he fights because he was going to be stranded in a dangerous area without his gear. How could Ellie factor this in her opinion if she's never told about it? Her opinion is almost a hot take with all the information she's missing.

It was obvious in her expression that she didn't believe him, but she couldn't confirm that he was truly lying. This is why Ellie went back to the hospital to confirm it. Knowing finally knowing the truth is a different feeling than just being highly suspicious.

Yeah so we don't disagree on the ending of TLOU1.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The Fireflies are a militia, Ellie was raised by an army. There's no need to explain any of that. She knew she headed into the hospital voluntarily...

How does that mean Ellie would be OK with the thuggish behaviour of the Fireflies towards Joel?

You're doing mental gymnastics here, the game is called Part 2. It requires a part 1 to be understood: you're expected to have played the first game or accept you won't have the full picture. There's no bad faith or gaslighting, the game is right there and Sony would love for you to pay for it and play it.

If TLOU2 makes Joel seem like a butcher who started killing unprovoked(no mention of any wrongdoing of the Fireflies) to stop the surgery then that is a dishonest retelling of what happened in TLOU1.

 

[DForce]

Yes and he fights because he was going to be stranded in a dangerous area without his gear. How could Ellie factor this in her opinion if she's never told about it? Her opinion is almost a hot take with all the information she's missing.

What? LOL
He doesn't fight because he was going to be stranded in a dangerous area, he fights because he wants to save Ellie.

Yeah so we don't disagree on the ending of TLOU1.

All cutscenes between the 4 year gap shows why Ellie and Joel had a strained relationship. There was no other explanation given as to why Ellie would be upset with Joell. You can't give another reason why Ellie was upset with Joel before she found out the truth in TLOU 2 in the flashback.

 

[Roni]

How does that mean Ellie would be OK with the thuggish behaviour of the Fireflies towards Joel?

If TLOU2 makes Joel seem like a butcher who started killing unprovoked(no mention of any wrongdoing of the Fireflies) to stop the surgery then that is a dishonest retelling of what happened in TLOU1.

Ellie understands that a military institution will treat anyone who goes against them as hostile and the treatment Joel got came after he told them to find someone else, thus going against their intentions. It's that simple. And Joel told her openly: the process would kill you and I stopped them.

 

[Ulysses 31]

What? LOL
He doesn't fight because he was going to be stranded in a dangerous area, he fights because he wants to save Ellie.

Of course that was the main reason but he started fighting back then because his options were running out. Letting his options run out in this case would probably mean losing his life and Ellie's.

All cutscenes between the 4 year gap shows why Ellie and Joel had a strained relationship. There was no other explanation given as to why Ellie would be upset with Joell. You can't give another reason why Ellie was upset with Joel before she found out the truth in TLOU 2 in the flashback.

Yeah I don't disagree Ellie's getting angrier with Joel but she only finds out part of the truth(and Joel failing to fill in important details). I never disputed Ellie being angry at Joel, I dispute Ellie having the same opinions if she knew the whole truth.

 

[Represent.]

Also

The story is garbage compared to the game

Its literally the same story lmao

 

[Ulysses 31]

Ellie understands that a military institution will treat anyone who goes against them as hostile and the treatment Joel got came after he told them to find someone else, thus going against their intentions. It's that simple. And Joel told her openly: the process would kill you and I stopped them.

I can list the things the Fireflies did to Joel again before he fought back if you want. Ellie should have a better grasp of Joel's personality so if he fought back, I assume she'd hear him out first but TLOU2 just presents it like he started killing unprovoked.

 

[Roni]

I can list the things the Fireflies did to Joel again before he fought back if you want. Ellie should have a better grasp of Joel's personality so if he fought back, I assume she'd hear him out first but TLOU2 just presents it like he started killing unprovoked.

Please do list everything they did to him before he told Marlene to find someone else.

 

[Punished Miku]

Thought the acting was pretty bad, especially the thug who couldn't use his legs. Shootout wasn't great. Episode was okay. Seeing KC was cool.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Please do list them...

Joel:

Got knocked out when he was deeply concerned for Ellie and was giving her CPR.
Got robbed and kidnapped.
Got separated from Ellie.
Was denied seeing Ellie.
Had to suck up that Ellie was going to get murdered.
Got threatened with death.
Got marched out without his gear towards an uncertain future.

Things aren't beyond the point of no return with the first 3. After that is when the Fireflies invited Joel's wrath upon themselves.

 

[DForce]

Of course that was the main reason but he started fighting back then because his options were running out. Letting his options run out in this case would probably mean losing his life and Ellie's.

Being left stranded without gear would have been the last thing on Joel's mind and it would be practically irrelevant to Ellie.

Yeah I don't disagree Ellie's getting angrier with Joel but she only finds out part of the truth(and Joel failing to fill in important details). I never disputed Ellie being angry at Joel, I dispute Ellie having the same opinions if she knew the whole truth.

The important details were already mentioned. As I said, she's smart enough to figure out that they took him out at gunpoint. If this was as important as you're trying to make it out to be, then the writers would have included it in the story, but they didn't.

 

[Roni]

Joel:

Got knocked out when he was deeply concerned for Ellie and was giving her CPR.
Got robbed and kidnapped.
Got separated from Ellie.
Was denied seeing Ellie.
Had to suck up that Ellie was going to get murdered.
Got threatened with death.
Got marched out without his gear.

Things aren't being the point of no return with the first 3. After that is when the Fireflies invited Joel's wrath on them.

The one thing on that list that happened before he went against them was getting knocked out and placed in the hospital, which Marlene immediately apologized for.

 

[Eevee86]

 

[Ulysses 31]

Being left stranded without gear would have been the last thing on Joel's mind and it would be practically irrelevant to Ellie.

It would also make it very hard to help Ellie in that situation so he had to avoid it at all costs. How would it be irrelevant to Ellie that Joel would be stranded without his gear? She cares for him, doesn't she?

The important details were already mentioned. As I said, she's smart enough to figure out that they took him out at gunpoint. If this was as important as you're trying to make it out to be, then the writers would have included it in the story, but they didn't.

The details of the Fireflies mistreating Joel weren't and seeing that Ellie does/did care for Joel it could change her opinion on how Joel acted in the situation. Because now all the gets told is that Joel went on a shooting spree to stop the surgery and not how he got provoked and threatened first.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The one thing on that list that happened before he went against them was getting knocked out and placed in the hospital, which Marlene immediately apologized for.

But it put Joel in a high state of worry and on edge, the last time he saw Ellie was when she nearly drowned and unconscious. And he's not allowed to see her again and gets told she'd going to die. The Fireflies kept escalating here, not Joel.

 

[DForce]

It would also make it very hard to help Ellie in that situation so he had to avoid it at all costs. How would it be irrelevant to Ellie that Joel would be stranded without his gear? She cares for him, doesn't she?

The details of the Fireflies mistreating Joel weren't and seeing that Ellie does/did care for Joel it could change her opinion on how Joel acted in the situation. Because now all the gets told is that Joel went on a shooting spree to stop the surgery and not how he got provoked and threatened first.

Joel was knocked unconscious and they put him in a hospital bed. The fireflies "mistreating Joel" was the result of his actions when he tried to save Ellie.

Ellie was able to fill in the gaps in TLOU 2

Ellie: He was a smuggler. And they disagreed about some goods. Fight broke out. Some of them died. I guess they wanted payback.
Jesse: Did that change anything for you?
Ellie: Nope

This is very clear that she understood what happened and it didn't change anything for her.

As I said, she was smart enough to figure it out and understand why the Fireflies tried to stop him.

 

[Roni]

But it put Joel in a high state of worry and on edge, the last time he saw Ellie was when she nearly drowned and unconscious. And he's not allowed to see her again and gets told she'd going to die. The Fireflies kept escalating here, not Joel.

Joel escalated, a fight broke out, Joel won. It's nice that you sympathize with the character that much, but you're not making any sense here.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Weakest episode yet, still ok but felt like a filler before the next.


The show is at its worst when they copy pasta from the game.

The whole scene in the car with the mag felt like forced fan service, none of it is necessary while they steer this far from the game plot. Bella works as Ellie only in this alternative universe, when they're mimicking the game it just feels off somehow ... maybe I'm biased.

I think remakes/adaptations that are 1:1 with their originals (even for just select scenes like TLOU has been so far) are just super hard to get right, specifically because of that bias being hard to get over.

The script is already written. The story has already been told. The roles have all been fit by actors already. It's really almost disorienting to the brain to see names, locations, people and scenarios you recognize wholesale in a different medium. Your brain is telling you "Although this world is fictional, there is already a Joel and Ellie and post cordyceps world in my head, and another version just feels like a reenactment of what *I* remember,"

Happens with me a lot.

 

[FunkMiller]

 

[Ulysses 31]

Joel was knocked unconscious and they put him in a hospital bed. The fireflies "mistreating Joel" was the result of his actions when he tried to save Ellie.

You word it well, save Ellie because she was going to get murdered. How dare Joel not just sit idly by and let the Fireflies have their way with Ellie.

Ellie was able to fill in the gaps in TLOU 2

Ellie: He was a smuggler. And they disagreed about some goods. Fight broke out. Some of them died. I guess they wanted payback.
Jesse: Did that change anything for you?
Ellie: Nope

This is very clear that she understood what happened and it didn't change anything for her.

As I said, she was smart enough to figure it out and understand why the Fireflies tried to stop him.

It just shows Ellie isn't told the whole story if she tells it like that. The fight wasn't over "some goods" but over her, the guns from the agreement were never even mentioned at the hospital.

Maaaaybe she's telling it this way to hide her immunity from Jesse. But Ellie doesn't not show knowledge of any Fireflies wrongdoing which taints her judgement on the matter.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-episode-4-ratings-viewers-1235512590/

"Episode 4 of "The Last of Us" set yet another series high. 7.5 million viewers tuned into Sunday night's episode, up 17% from the 6.4 million that tuned into Episode 3.

That the show's audience is still growing at this point is an especially impressive feat, as Episode 4 aired on HBO and released on HBO Max during the telecast of the 65th Grammys, which brought in 12.4 million viewers, its highest audience since 2020. Still, a major contingent of viewers chose to watch "The Last of Us" instead, or chose to stream the new episode after the three-hour-long awards show."
" Additionally of note is that "The Last of Us" is on more rapidly inclining trajectory than "House of the Dragon," which is HBO's most recent comparable series in terms of viewership. Though "House of the Dragon" premiered with almost 10 million viewers and "The Last of Us" has yet to reach that point, it's notable that the cable viewership of "House of the Dragon" dropped significantly by its third episode before steadying out for the rest of its run. (Total viewership including streaming was not available for Episodes 3-9 of "House of the Dragon.)"

 

[Ulysses 31]

Joel escalated, a fight broke out, Joel won. It's nice that you sympathize with the character that much, but you're not making any sense here.

What doesn't make sense to you? That Joel eventually fights back and comes to Ellie's defence?

 

[DeepEnigma]

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-episode-4-ratings-viewers-1235512590/

Guess the “let’s see the drop off after bear love” for episode 4 is null.

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Show is pretty great so far. Wife is into it, so I'm happy she gets to experience the story pretty much as I did when I played the game. Effects and environments are on point. Finding it really bizarre that people are getting their panties in a twist over gay stuff after the game explicitly did lots of gay stuff and also trans stuff and muscular women stuff and also minority stuff and also women in charge stuff. Like, if you were going into this show expecting it to be politically neutral, you haven't been paying any attention to the actual game series. The gay episode was the best one so far, made me tear up. Was a perfect encapsulation of what life looks like when people can escape the misery of the apocalypse for a good many years, even if it catches up with them in the end. Love all the acting so far as well.

Only watched 1/2 but the Walking Dead fatigue is starting to set in.
20 minutes of dialogue, 10 minutes of action, 20 minutes of dialogue.
And who thought it was a good idea to drive through a major city? 100% would be blocked by cars or have raiders waiting to ambush.
Both things happened? Who would have thunk it?
How about using that map to take another way around.

They literally showed him contemplating going another route but deciding against it. One can assume it's due to 1) limited gas and/or 2) wasting time on a significant detour as those kinds of maps really only show major highways, which means more time to have a chance encounter on the highway as well.

 

[Roni]

What doesn't make sense to you? That Joel eventually fights back and comes to Ellie's defence?

That you expect the Fireflies to treat Joel as Ellie's family.

Look, we've been around the block on this and I'm not about to go on another loop in this merry-go-round. I appreciate why you can't see reason: you're invested in the game, attached to the character and the experiences you had playing as him.

Far be it from me to tell someone that shouldn't happen, because that's the power of interactive experiences in their best days and I want more of that in the world, not less.

But you've lost perspective due to that attachment and can't argue objectively on this, only subjectively. A valid place to be, as per my previous statement, but I refuse to waste anymore of my time on a discussion about how you feel. I can't change the way you feel.

I can only discuss facts with you, but that's not what you're interested in. Have a good one!

 

[Ulysses 31]

That you expect the Fireflies to treat Joel as Ellie's family.

Marlene knows Ellie means something to Joel and she felt the need to inform about the surgery. So yeah it's strange they expected Joel to just suck it up Ellie's going to die like that.

Look, we've been around the block on this and I'm not about to go on another loop in this merry-go-round. I appreciate why you can't see reason: you're invested in the game, attached to the character and the experiences you had playing as him.

Far be it from me to tell someone that shouldn't happen, because that's the power of interactive experiences in their best days and I want more of that in the world, not less.

But you've lost perspective due to that attachment and can't argue objectively on this, only subjectively. A valid place to be, as per my previous statement, but I refuse to waste anymore of my time on a discussion about how you feel. I can't change the way you feel.

I can only discuss facts with you, but that's not what you're interested in. Have a good one!

It's all in good fun bro.

 

[Rawker]

I have nothing against gay people but they are massively over represented in modern media. The entire LGBT is around 5-6% of the population but you would think they are 50%+ of the population when interacting with most TV/Movies/Games. They are also used as shields for criticism along with minorities for poor storytelling. It is pretty exploitive actually.

I agree but the numbers don't bother me because I can choose not to watch, especially in this situation. It's just the way it's handled. I posted that Animal Kingdom and OZ are top 5 shows for me and both handle LGBT in a manor that wasn't a side show and built actual depth to the characters involved.

 

[ajanke]

Hurry up Friday. Can’t get enough