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HD-DVD comes out fighting, launch in 2005
- Thread starter sonycowboy
- Start date
Crazymoogle
Member
jarrod said:
BRD-RW is currently available in japan for a king's ransom.
It's strictly a data/video recording format though - the BRD-ROM video playback format is still not completely laid out yet.
seismologist
Banned
enter Playstation 3...
...in 2006.seismologist said:
Too bad Xenon's coming too soon to upgrade to HD-DVD though, that could've been interesting against a BRD equipped PS3. I expect Nintendo will probably go custom format with Matsushitsa again, though it'd be a nice surprise if they cut a deal with NEC for HD-DVD in Revolution (though that seems unlikely).
seismologist
Banned
This is where Sony benefits for having so much leverage in movie industry and home entertainment standards. Launching a next gen system with the "wrong format" disk could be disasterous.
Just ask Nintendo. They did it 2 times in a row.
Just ask Nintendo. They did it 2 times in a row.
DVD is too mainstream now for it to become the wrong format. it took like 2 years for DVD to finally catch on and when it did it spread like wildfire. HD isnt spreading as fast yet and i doubt the casual buyers are gonna wanna upgrade the DVD players they just bought already. look at how long it took for some to give up their VCRS. BR wil be niche and HD-DVD will become just like D-VHS. DVD is the new VHS.
For once, I think I agree with BoE. The tech-elite will scoop up the new formats, and maybe people looking to get the absolute most out of their fancy new TVs, but I think the majority will stick with DVD for a while...at least until the prices drop to mainstream levels (and also assuming the new players are compatible with old standard DVDs, so people don't have to give up their collections).BeOnEdge said:
Laurent said:
Random. My launch PS2 still reads everything perfectly, but I do have to take it apart every 4-5 months and clean the lense directly with isopropyl alcohol and a cotton swab or it stops reading discs quickly.
However, the fact that many of them stop reading CDRoms can't be denied. I was just making a stupid joke - but I do think Sony will hedge their bets and support all popular media formats for playback (maybe software unlocked with a kit like Xbox however). The Xenon might as well. Of course, games will only be in one format.
DVD ruled this generation. It's conceivable that two formats COULD be relavant in the next generation.
seismologist
Banned
DVD wasn't exactly mainstream until after the PS2 launch.
PS3 will probably launch with a HD player to help kickstart the new standard. Eventually only really old DVD players wont support HD.
PS3 will probably launch with a HD player to help kickstart the new standard. Eventually only really old DVD players wont support HD.
pcostabel
Gold Member
human5892 said:
You got it backwards. Content drives adoption. The availability of HD content, together with falling prices, will push HDTV adoption. If PS3 uses Blu Ray and BD movies are readily available, a lot of people will jump on the HD bandwagon. Games in particular will be a big incentive to upgrade your TV: HD gaming will lure many PC gamers to consoles and the kind of graphics that the new console will really show the advantages of HDTV sets,
seismologist said:
if you mean by japan, yes. here, it was cheap DVD players as well as cheap DVDs that did it. Joe blow is not gonna give up DVD nor are retailers or Rental chains. it took them long enough to finally start phasing out VHS. they arent gonna make equal room for HD DVD.
"Content drives adoption."
i dont think content had anything to do with the adoption of DVD. quality, price and space did it if you ask me. i would have NEVER owned 150+ VHS tapes. my livingroom would be a mess. DVDs are so compact and hey, you didnt have to rewind them. people like convenience. theres nothing more convenient about the new DVD formats than the current one. I'm telling you. DVD is the new VHS. all this other stuff is like the other VHS formats that only audio/videophiles want.
Yes, and the "old VHS" has coexisted quite profitably with the "new VHS" for years. The fact that VHS itself remained quite strong and healthy in sales for years after DVD arrived didn't prevent DVD from rocketing to mainstream appeal faster than any format before it. Your own example isn't even proof of the market being exclusionary of all but one format.BeOnEdge said:
BRD and HD-DVD offer an upgrade path from DVD, the prevailing format of the moment. You don't have to by a single HD disc if you don't want to in order to get value out of the BRD/HDDVD players that will be arriving since they'll be backward compatible with CD and DVD discs. And I'd put smart money on this new generation of HD disc players offering ways to enhance existing DVDs by including the ability to uspcale from 480p to 720p or 1080i at least, which is already appearing in current DVD players. Or think about how much standard 480p content (eg. TV shows that pre-date High Def filming) you could fit on one BRD/HD-DVD disc.
There are already signs that the DVD market is losing some of its momentum. Meanwhile, HDTV sales are on the rise and by the time BRD/HD-DVD players hit mass market prices in 2005/2006, they'll be an estimated 30+ million HDTV owners in North America alone. That's not a market to sneeze at.
kaching said:
have you been to best buy within the past 2...maybe even 3 years? wheres the VHS section?
how much of a difference does this format offer over something liek say, progressive scan anyway? HDTV retailers push progressive scan as a selling point for HDTVs. the difference between VHS and Progressive scan DVD is stunning sound and picture wise. If HD DVD cant provide that same jump in quality, theres another reason why i feel it wont become main stream.
Erhmmm... if the source data is 480p, then you're not enhancing anything, more likely you're making things worse by upscaling.Kaching said:
Of course, there are already some HD resolution movies available on regular DVDs, but I don't know if those even play in players that can't decode higher then 480p.
Although generally I agree - the key difference from older transitions here is this one being seamless thanks to backward compatibility. And with two strong competing formats, prices will probably drop much faster then they did with DVD early on (I think we're more likely to see a reprize of what happened to recordable DVD formats).
Download one of the 1080P HDTV clips from Microsoft WMV demo page, and see for yourself.
I would say the difference is a lot more noticeable then going from 480I to 480P.Adoption also drives content. People who don't own an HDTV (aka -- the majority of Americans), for example, aren't going to see much reason to shell out for an HD-DVD player, because it's not going to give them much different picture quality than what they're used to. And if people aren't buying, it doesn't make sense for movie studios to use that format. Thus, adoption can drive content.pcostabel said:
I agree that HD-DVD (or BluRay, or whatever it ends up being) will inevitably become a new standard when HDTVs are as commonplace as normal televisions are today, but I think it'll be quite some time before that happens. Even when it does, will the added picture/sound quality be that much of an incentive to pick up movies on a more expensive HD-DVD? DVDs allowed numerous advantages over VHS tapes besides improved quality, but so far, I can't say the same about HD-DVDs.
Best Buy's VCR section -> right here
My local best buy still stocks VCRs and every one I've been to does, as far as I can tell. Certainly not as many as in their heyday, but I'm sure you know you're just trying to twist the point
My local best buy still stocks VCRs and every one I've been to does, as far as I can tell. Certainly not as many as in their heyday, but I'm sure you know you're just trying to twist the point
And they'll move onto higher resolutions as the selling point when the time is right. A TV can be pro-scan but not necessarily High Def (EDTV).
The jump from 480p to 1080p resolution movies should be just as noticeable if not moreso than the jump from VHS to DVD. As for sound, not likely to be as big a boost there since the biggest jump that needed to made was already done. Still there are other ways for next gen optical media to distinguish themselves. As I said, much higher capacity discs leads to the potential for LARGE single disc collections of standard definition material which plays to convenience and space concerns. BRD also builds in the ability for downloadable content to be added to a disc after it has been purchased via the owner's personal BRD player and of course is designed as a rewriteable format from the start. HD-DVD is also addressing these areas to some extent as I understand, but it's not clear how far along they are.
seismologist
Banned
Another possibility is that they'll just start bundling both formats in the same package.
Sort of like they do now with widescreen vs. fullscreen.
Sort of like they do now with widescreen vs. fullscreen.
Kiriku:
> What's stopping them?
Money. Switching to HDTV is expensive and it reduces the amount of channels on the terrestial net, meaning there is less money to be made.
8bit:
> Sky have said they will start HD-TV broadcasts in the UK next year
Keep in mind that this will require cable or satellite. There will be no terrestial HD broadcasts in Europe for a long time.
> but I'm not sure if the HD-PAL specification is finalized yet.
PAL is an analogue standard and will be replaced by DVB (which does have an HDTV specification).
Shompola:
> man yah I wish there was HDTV allready here, especially with the new consoles coming
> out soon.
There are plenty of sets capable of displaying HD resolutions available now (in Europe). Two years from now you'll be able to get a quality set for a reasonable price.
jarrod:
> Also, not too sure if any BRD drives are avaiable yet?
Sony has a consumer model out in Japan and at least one prosumer as well.
Of course, the recordable specs aren't finalized and neither is the ROM spec for that matter. At worst the Sony machines will be unusable for the finalized format.
Midas:
> Well, you found it. But it's still NICE!
Only if you have cable or satellite
Fafalada:
> if the source data is 480p, then you're not enhancing anything, more likely you're
> making things worse by upscaling.
Well, you don't really have a choice if your display is a flat panel. Then it just becomes a matter of which unit has the better scaler.
> What's stopping them?
Money. Switching to HDTV is expensive and it reduces the amount of channels on the terrestial net, meaning there is less money to be made.
8bit:
> Sky have said they will start HD-TV broadcasts in the UK next year
Keep in mind that this will require cable or satellite. There will be no terrestial HD broadcasts in Europe for a long time.
> but I'm not sure if the HD-PAL specification is finalized yet.
PAL is an analogue standard and will be replaced by DVB (which does have an HDTV specification).
Shompola:
> man yah I wish there was HDTV allready here, especially with the new consoles coming
> out soon.
There are plenty of sets capable of displaying HD resolutions available now (in Europe). Two years from now you'll be able to get a quality set for a reasonable price.
jarrod:
> Also, not too sure if any BRD drives are avaiable yet?
Sony has a consumer model out in Japan and at least one prosumer as well.
Of course, the recordable specs aren't finalized and neither is the ROM spec for that matter. At worst the Sony machines will be unusable for the finalized format.
Midas:
> Well, you found it. But it's still NICE!
Only if you have cable or satellite
Fafalada:
> if the source data is 480p, then you're not enhancing anything, more likely you're
> making things worse by upscaling.
Well, you don't really have a choice if your display is a flat panel. Then it just becomes a matter of which unit has the better scaler.
Matsushita/Panasonic will also be releasing a BRD device before the end of the summer. They're aiming to have it available in Japan in time for high-def recording of the Olympics.
http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/f...omtex_2004_06_30_ky_0000-5850-matsushita.html
http://www.forbes.com/infoimaging/f...omtex_2004_06_30_ky_0000-5850-matsushita.html
kaching said:Best Buy's VCR section -> right here
My local best buy still stocks VCRs and every one I've been to does, as far as I can tell. Certainly not as many as in their heyday, but I'm sure you know you're just trying to twist the point
.
meh? i said vhs as in movies. best buys vhs section has shrunken down to a single 1 sided aisle and its been that way for awhile now. i just dont see that happening to current dvd.
Same deal, BOE. And it'll happen to DVD, too. Just a matter of when. Back when DVD launched and for the first few years of its lifetime, VHS commanded plenty of space. The fact that VHS is still available today, even if in a reduced capacity, says quite a bit about what the market can support.
As this is the Gaming Forum....
Is HD-DVD what Xenon is supposed to be using? I read on http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.13 that the disc capacity is around 15gb, so that'd be ideal, unlike those leaked specs suggesting it'd be standard DVD capacity media.
Is HD-DVD what Xenon is supposed to be using? I read on http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.13 that the disc capacity is around 15gb, so that'd be ideal, unlike those leaked specs suggesting it'd be standard DVD capacity media.
It's hard to say, Ghost. With HD-DVD players just getting set to hit the market sometime in 2005, if the Xbox2 is also a 2005 release, the costs would seem prohibitive for what one would hope would be a sub $300 console.
There was an MS job posting a while back specifically looking for someone to be PM/Engineer "to manage the design and development of the Xbox Game Disc for the next generation Xbox console."
http://www.microsoft.com/careers/search/details.aspx?JobID=5a0a79bb-f7bd-4161-878f-d1d6f414ca9a
But it doesn't give many clues as to whether they're pursuing a new physical format or software format, or both.
There was an MS job posting a while back specifically looking for someone to be PM/Engineer "to manage the design and development of the Xbox Game Disc for the next generation Xbox console."
http://www.microsoft.com/careers/search/details.aspx?JobID=5a0a79bb-f7bd-4161-878f-d1d6f414ca9a
But it doesn't give many clues as to whether they're pursuing a new physical format or software format, or both.
Finally I ordered my 21" Monitor that is capable to display all hd-tv resolution (its limit is 2048x1536 pixel). Now I pray for Xbox2, PS3 and Revolution having a vga-out connector or just an optional vga-cable. HD-TV is too expensive for me and here in Germany there are only very few (and expensive) models available.
CrimsonSkies
Member
I hope Xenon has HD-DVD.