Lothar is cosplaying Lifecoach and roping every turn.
http://www.twitch.tv/lotharhs
http://www.twitch.tv/lotharhs
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Hearthstone |OT4| The warsong has ended, please patron other decks
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Eh, I don't think you ever want your 7/7 to be bgh'd. You want to trade 2-1 or hit face and then trade 1-1. The arcane missiles will be nice but you're definitely not playing 7 mana to get 3 arcane missiles. You're doing it for the body imo and the arcane missiles is just a benefit on top of it.
That minion taking BGH means no BGH for Dr Balanced.
Something is bound to get BGH'd.
And that's a really expensive body at 8 mana for a War Golem.
toddhunter
Member
You would also be running boom, alex and rag. Maybe nefarian gets subbed out. Getting BGH on that is perfect.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So what if you have no BGH for dr. balanced. You just got a 8 mana body removed for 3 mana. That is a HUGE set back.
Okay, 8 mana. The point is that you're acting like it is nothing if the body gets bgh'd. That is a huge swing why normally why cards like this will never be played. Paying 8 mana for 3 arcane missiles is a really really bad deal. The 7/7 body is a big part of the card's value.
I don't think it is subbing anything tbh. It is way too slow at 8 mana for tempo. I don't see it being played over anything in control. The slowest mage deck that is played is fatigue and I would still be hard pressed to use that over another 8 mana card like kelthuzad in that type of deck.
Would I play nefarian over it? Well, if I am playing nefarian, it would be in a dragon deck so no. Hard to think about a mage deck that wants to run nefarian and then chooses to run rhonin instead. Even nefarian's card adds, unlike rhoning, can't be silenced.
Keeping in mind that you don't get the missiles immediately and it can be silenced so you might never get the missiles.
You guys are really overestimating how many silence people paly these days.
If you are palying mage,the probably and they had silence,they probably already used it on your scientists or shredders.
Freeze mages have even better silence targets.
Polymorph is pretty rare right now,too , which means only Hex remains.
Ronin still might be too slow for tempo mage and/or doesn't work well in freeze mage,but he might find a spot in a control mage deck of some sort.
If you are palying mage,the probably and they had silence,they probably already used it on your scientists or shredders.
Freeze mages have even better silence targets.
Polymorph is pretty rare right now,too , which means only Hex remains.
Ronin still might be too slow for tempo mage and/or doesn't work well in freeze mage,but he might find a spot in a control mage deck of some sort.
toddhunter
Member
Boom already ate the BGH and if this gets silenced, Antonidas or sylvanas doesn't. It is a win condition and that is always worth including.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Bleh, I hate this brawl. So damn luck dependent it isn't even funny. Every single minion I got was crap and every single rng and minion the hunter got was great...
I liked the brawl a ton the first time around, but revisiting it just returns people to the 'meta' where they pick what was best back then. It took a few days for that to happen when everything was fresh but now it's nothing but druids. I think I had one game that was priest and one that was mage aside from that, with nothing else in sight. Though I was also using Priest, lol.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
All I can say about this brawl is... if it were the main game I would not be playing the game even remotely as long as I am now. To me, this is easily the worst brawl ruleset... hate it.
I actually like it quiet abit. At least here you can build a deck and go for a certain curve. The ones I found the worst where webspinner, banana and the dreadfull unstable portal shit.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Man stuck at rank 7-8 against all these Eboladins and Face Huntards. I don't know which is worse.
FieryBalrog
Member
BGH sucks, but in this kind of deck you have more than one BGH target already, and yet you can still win games believe it or not.
Haunted
Member
It would be Cool Hearthstone Mechanics 7, we already have 6 of those. There was some cool stuff in there I hadn't seen before - just hard to tell which of these are still in the game and which have been fixed (I assume the 13 minions on board voidcaller bug among them).
In Tempo Mage? It totally is.
Lifecoach strim http://www.twitch.tv/lotharhs
But would you ever play an 8-mana 7/7 in a tempo deck? Nope.
You already play Rag and Boom in them. Casting 3 missiles with a flamewaker is 15 damage, which is nothing to scoff at.
I think I must have different definitions of the word "value" than other people here.
Varian is not high value to me. What do you call Ysera if Varian is value? What do you call arcane intellect? Ysera is a high value card. Varian is a moderate value card. Arcane Intellect is a zero value card. Value is how much you get out of each individual card.
Edit: to make that more clearer, "value" is something you start to really care about when you are, for instance, a control Warrior facing a Priest and you know the game is likely to go to fatigue. Something like Ysera becomes extremely important, because it provides value; it generates cards and may take 2-3 cards from your opponent to remove. Zero value cards like arcane intellect may become cards you don't even want to play ever, because they do nothing but drive you to fatigue faster.
Varian is not high value to me. What do you call Ysera if Varian is value? What do you call arcane intellect? Ysera is a high value card. Varian is a moderate value card. Arcane Intellect is a zero value card. Value is how much you get out of each individual card.
Edit: to make that more clearer, "value" is something you start to really care about when you are, for instance, a control Warrior facing a Priest and you know the game is likely to go to fatigue. Something like Ysera becomes extremely important, because it provides value; it generates cards and may take 2-3 cards from your opponent to remove. Zero value cards like arcane intellect may become cards you don't even want to play ever, because they do nothing but drive you to fatigue faster.
So what do you call the property I'm describing (i.e. cards that are significantly powerful on their own, requiring multiple cards for your opponent to take care of, generating deck advantage)? I'm totally fine calling it something else, I just need a word for it. What do you call something like Face Hunter? Face Hunter is an extremely efficient deck, but it is very low value.
I honestly don't know. I think both type of cards can have different kind of value.
But that is ambiguous, then. Using your approach, the word has two different meanings which often conflict with each other. Surely it would be better to have two different words, so the two concepts can be readily distinguished? This is the purpose of language, after all.
Please note again that I'm completely fine not referring to this concept as "value," but it certainly deserves a word, whatever that word is.
paperboywriter
Member
did lifecoach confirm that it was in fact he himself?
I might if I got 3 Arcane Missles out of it! I mean some tempo decks are playing a 7 mana 7/7 or a 6 mana 5/7.
Tempo mage plays things that give immediate value and do something on play, Rhonin is more often a 8 mana war golem than something that gives you 3 arcane missiles.
For a 8 drop in tempo mage, Rag is actually better. You can drop it after flamestriking the board on previous turn and it will be so much value on the spot. Playing Rhonin is a huge risk, you could very well waste one turn playing it and it might take two turns until you get your missiles or worst never.
If Rhonin was a 6/8 with taunt it would have been really good actually. This getting BGH'd is not really good for you. The opponent wins board control easily and there is no telling those arcane missiles can win it back.
For a 8 drop in tempo mage, Rag is actually better. You can drop it after flamestriking the board on previous turn and it will be so much value on the spot. Playing Rhonin is a huge risk, you could very well waste one turn playing it and it might take two turns until you get your missiles or worst never.
If Rhonin was a 6/8 with taunt it would have been really good actually. This getting BGH'd is not really good for you. The opponent wins board control easily and there is no telling those arcane missiles can win it back.
No, it was some other player named Lifecoach who was rank 53 legend on EU. /s
VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/lotharhs/v/10744107?t=1h37m04s
I feel late game arcane missiles can be useless too actually. If you're playing against warrior what will happen is that, he will have armorsmiths or patrons on board. Now use those arcane missiles and flamewakers if you dare. Nobody runs avenging wrath in paladin anymore.
Flamewakers are really good in early rush. Late game with big bodies on board, they are not nearly as good.
Flamewakers are really good in early rush. Late game with big bodies on board, they are not nearly as good.
Super Nothing
Member
If you have a 7/7 on board for 2 turns, you should be smashing his face in. I can imagine a lot worse things than having my fat bodied minion actually survive and do some damage. But Rhonin is probably better for a Malygos Mage than Tempo Mage. You'd need Emperor to reduce the cost of a Sorcerer's Apprentice or Malygos (preferably both), then play Malygos + SA and fire away with 8 damage Arcane Missiles for free until everything is dead.
You might not be able too, let's say zoo will just Argus some imps and you're stuck there with your war golem, handlock is similar, just taunt up the most rubbish thing you have and hit face with your giants or whatever. That's a very valid play against this imo. If it was Rag though, it could snipe those giants instead (it always does that!), Rag is a big problem to have.
Or you could freeze it with some spare part tempo mage's own yeti gave you. Mage's can just hit it with frostbolt and leave it there. There are so many ways to delay it without killing it. You don't want your opponent to have those missiles, if you can't silence or morph it, you can still achieve that in other ways. Some classes will have problem against it, like priest I imagine. But warrior might not even care if you get those arcane missiles. They kill it and play armorsmiths or make some patron.
Now if it was Dr. Boom, you could try something like that too but those boom bots will still do their job. Then there is no point in delaying killing Dr. Boom, Rhonin on the other hand isn't very scary.
Boom is not just 7/7 for 7 mana. Rag hits for 8 the turn you play him. Who knows Rhonin might find its way to some decks, but Boom nor Rag it is not by any stretch.
So are you saying ancient of lore is low value? 7 mana for a 5 5 is terrible.
I compare wryn to lore, except it can also play the cards if they are minions.
Edit: oops you are talking about the Mage one >.>
I know - just saying that it shouldn't be counted out completely.
paperboywriter
Member
they should archieve the chat too. thats the best/worst part of every stream
I think Ancient of Lore is moderate value, like Wrynn is. For 7 mana, a 5/5 is not particularly valuable, but Lore more than makes up for his moderate value by providing tempo through card draw. Wrynn is an even bigger example because he plays the minions he draws: he is pretty valuable (but not incredibly valuable) as a 7/7, but provides an enormous tempo swing, where tempo is the state of your hand + the board.
I consider Wrynn more a tempo card than a value card. Another, different virtue in a card would be something like Wolf Rider; it provides virtually no tempo (i.e. no board or card dominance) or value (a 3/1 is low value) but provides extreme efficiency, where efficiency here is "killing your opponent." Face hunters are certainly not value oriented and also not tempo oriented (as they are willing to lose board control by turn 4-5 as long as they can keep punching face). I call them "efficiency oriented."
So the three things I value in a card are its tempo swing (Arcane Intellect provides no value or efficiency but significant tempo), its value (Ysera provides virtually no efficiency, little tempo, but enormous value) and efficiency (Wolf Rider provides little tempo, little value, but significant efficiency). You can swap these words up if you would like -- I'm much more concerned that these three ideas have distinct words to describe them. You can call efficiency flaxmalog and call value qwyijibo, I don't care, as long as we have words to describe these concepts.
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