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[Ty4on]

So Mazre, the only reason I'm suspicious to you is because my leading post was to not ignore/forgive low posters and anti-town behavior in a game like this, even though you agree with that statement? Why is it weird to lead with a post that gives a pre-emptive overview of my perception of this game?

It's weird because it looks townie. As the first post it's visible so most people will build an impression of you and it's a good way of going back into the shadows afterwards without people noticing.
That's kinda what you did. Sure you made an analysis of redhood, but he is by far the easiest target and your points were safe and not very novel.

 

[CornBurrito]

I'd like to see more ORIGINAL CONTENT from Flux and Splinter.

 

[*Splinter]

but its harrrrd

No really. You want to know something? Ask a question. Right now you're throwing out generic pokes without actually providing anything more yourself.

 

[*Splinter]

On the other hand, I can't see any benefit to top town lists. Sure it will be worth discussing when someone is up for lynch, but for now I think staring any amount of trust for someone is only going to get them killed.

Squidgy it seems you disagree with me here. Could you explain the merit to posting top town lists?

 

[CornBurrito]

but its harrrrd

No really. You want to know something? Ask a question. Right now you're throwing out generic pokes without actually providing anything more yourself.

Pretend you are scum and actually try please.

 

[CornBurrito]

Kawl, Mazre, and Ouro. Those three seem to have avoided (not through their own efforts) being the topic of conversation. Talk about them Splinter. Or anyone.

 

[*Splinter]

Pretend you are scum and actually try please.

no u

 

[CrimsonFist]

I see a slight benefit to top town lists: In a game like this with no power roles, one would expect the top townies to be targeted by scum, especially with no doctor in place. To me that would make any top townies who haven't been night killed by late game slightly more suspicious.

Not a complete give-away obviously, especially now that I've posted that idea publicly.

 

[CornBurrito]

I'll clarify again and say that read lists are a useful thing to have. I just really disagree that everyone should post one. If everyone posts a read list, scum team then has extremely easy and convenient access to "who does town think scum is."

Which translates directly into a "who do we keep alive so that they can be lynched, and who do we kill because nobody really suspects them of being scum" list.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

It's weird because it looks townie. As the first post it's visible so most people will build an impression of you and it's a good way of going back into the shadows afterwards without people noticing.
That's kinda what you did. Sure you made an analysis of redhood, but he is by far the easiest target and your points were safe and not very novel.

That's fair. D1 has mainly been about 1v1 petty arguments, with a few interjections here and there. I'm trying to find something to have input on, but other than saying inaneness like "Thinking cabot is scum no matter what he does is pretty dumb," I haven't thought of much else.

I'd like to see more ORIGINAL CONTENT from Flux and Splinter.

Your mum.

 

[*Splinter]

I see a slight benefit to top town lists: In a game like this with no power roles, one would expect the top townies to be targeted by scum, especially with no doctor in place. To me that would make any top townies who haven't been night killed by late game slightly more suspicious.

Not a complete give-away obviously, especially now that I've posted that idea publicly.

Actually thats a fair point, I hadn't considered it that way

 

[CrimsonFist]

Kawl, Mazre, and Ouro. Those three seem to have avoided (not through their own efforts) being the topic of conversation. Talk about them Splinter. Or anyone.

Mind if I take some of those discussion people? Not that I think there's much to go on right now, but I'll try:

Mazre:

Not really said much so far, did a bit of poking early on and tried to prompt a discussion point. Gave an excuse for being absent after that, so lack of further activity is excused for now.

Kawl_USC

A lot of his posts don't seem overly contributive. Done a small amount of poking, but hasn't really posted suspicions on anyone, aside from a vote on *Splinter at the start. Also a bit of discussion on voting methods, which strikes me as a bit of a pointless topic that a few people have focused on.

Ourobolus

Has posted nothing of any substance, mentioned being busy with work training and promised a big post later on though, so will wait for that.

vote: Kawl_USC

Mind posting some thoughts on other players aside from *Splinter?

 

[Kawl_USC]

Sure thing. Heading home from work holiday dinner. Will post my thoughts in a bit.

 

[Ty4on]

Meh, going to bed.

VOTE: Ourobolus
UNVOTE
VOTE: *Splinter
UNVOTE
VOTE: Mazre
UNVOTE
VOTE: Karu

...
UNVOTE
Vote: FluxWaveZ

 

[Ourobolus]

I am finally home. Bed, then I'll post my shit in the morning.

 

[squidyj]

I'll clarify again and say that read lists are a useful thing to have. I just really disagree that everyone should post one. If everyone posts a read list, scum team then has extremely easy and convenient access to "who does town think scum is."

Which translates directly into a "who do we keep alive so that they can be lynched, and who do we kill because nobody really suspects them of being scum" list.

this is flawed in many respects.
First of all if you don't think scum can pick out a few of the most generally suspicious or trustworthy town players at any given point in time (barring the very start of the game) then why don't you just go ahead and call them what you think they are? "completely fucking incompetent"

Second of all if I don't know your reads before an event it's not going to help you a single bit if you say "yeah I totally had these reads bro" it's fucking useless garbage and I will lynch you just for saying it.

Third what you're really doing is providing scum room to maneuver, you're providing a grey area in which they don't necessarily have to have opinions (this can be caught otherwise) or be held to account for changing their opinions if things go wrong for them. If they scumread a teammate it doesn't look good if they flip that read when the teammates ass is actually on the line, or flip a vote the wrong way at the end of the day.

It's important to know where everyone says their head is at. Very important. To suggest otherwise is seriously dangerous for town and a good way for us to lose the fucking game.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Splinter my vote is on you once I get my lunch break or home from work.

Can explain more when I get home, but short story is that Splinter isn't arousing me.

I've been at work m8.

Anyway, I don't actually have any deeper reasons for my Splinter vote. You simply aren't exciting me with your posts.

I'm sort of aware of the fact that we have very active posters who are discussing things, and you posted a bit late, but it doesn't feel like you're providing anything new.

The combination of these posts from Corn really rubbed me the wrong way when going back through the thread. His voting for splinter is drawn out over 4 posts and something like half a day all to eventually give some basic fluff reasoning for his vote. It strikes me as weird in a day full of people doing fluffy/weird stuff (to be expected on Day 1 I guess). For a day when we are giving people crap for the way they are voting, this stuck out to me.

So..... I've made no secret that I find burbeting to be suspicious, not least of which because he seems to have instantly assumed he was the person I said I was watching, and part of that is based on something he said earlier in the thread. Burbeting said that we can't trust anyone 100% in this game.
This is a true statement. It's also a statement that can be seen as trying to help mafia. One of the things we NEED to do as town is reach out to and find other town members, we need to build town circles not just mafia circles, it's true that we can't trust 100% the people in our town reads but if we only try to read the people we are suspicious of we will lose.
In that vein I want to give a few of my current top town

Cornburrito. I think his reaction to being asked to give a reads list is dumb, like really dumb for real, so I feel more confident calling him town because of that

Royal_Flush. Took the time and had the insight to point out my poor use of logic when I gave Cabot my 'reason' for voting him and wanting him dead. Gave good logic and weirdly responded before Cabot.

*Splinter. Just a general town vibe off of this fella. I believe his silly little gambit thing sort of the same way I believe cornburrito's resistance to reads.

So this bolded I don't really agree with. I may be misreading what you are saying Squidy, but it sounds like you are suggesting if we only read into the posts of people are are already suspicious of we will be at a disadvantage and I do agree with that. However, I would say that reaching out to others we trust and creating town circles runs exactly counter to that goal. Once you've entered into a circle with someone you will almost certainly be less critical of their posts and be more likely to have them fall into your blind spot. I definitely see the merit in scum read lists, I'm less sold on top town lists.

Well I guess it seems logical to assume, that if you say you think someone is "probably scum anyways", you would name them your first lynch candidate.

The whole exchange between Burbeting and Squidy originally made me a little questionable on Burbeting, thinking that he had made a guilty assumption that he was the one Squid was talking about keeping an eye on (as Squid posited himself in a follow up). Looking at the exchange now though, Squidy makes his posts about keeping an eye on someone around post 110ish, and doesn't post his 4 lynch lists for another 50 or so posts. I don't think its really that much of an assumption to think that he is merely stating outright what he had hinted at in an earlier posts. If the order of the posts had been reversed I would have agreed with Squidy that it seems Burb was maybe feeling a little on the defensive. Looking at it now I say I think this reflects more poorly on Squidyj all things considered.

Yeah, if we're posting early reads, the one person that actually stands out to me right now is redhood56.

• Unprovoked claims of being town. Their very first post is outright claiming they're town:
  
  

This is why I just asked them the "stupid" question: Are you town? Their response was, "Yeah, are you?" A deflection. I don't see the point in claiming any one of us are town, especially not in this game. There are no power roles, no neutrals... what the hell else would anyone say? It's unnecessary, and the repetition is suspicious.

• Defensive reaction disguised as silliness to a single vote.

This doesn't mean much, but it's another unnecessary response when no one else was freaking out at themselves being voted on yet.

I stated earlier in the day that I thought Redhood was just someone coming off a hiatus being a little over eagerly in their proclamation of townhood (reminiscent of some newbie players) and always found people who jump all over those type of claims aggressively a little suspicious. So this whole posts by Flux I find to be low hanging fruit and easy pickings for making a post that seems to be fronting analysis and participation on day 1. Redhood asking the same question back is hardly a deflection. He's made it very clear that he is town (his doubling down contributing to me thinking he's just over eager town versus scum) so a simple yes before returning the question doesn't seem strange.

Flux is on the lower side of the active posters (above Mazre, Ouro, and Droplet pretty much) but a good deal of those are pretty fluffy posts (here, maybe it would kill him joke, etc). His meaningful posts are pretty much the opening posts of the game (solid enough, but like others have said could be something written up to get good will from the get go), the above quote concerning Redhood, a post saying how activity is important, and the posts on this page saying he's struggling to find things to chime in on.

So I'll add myself to the list of people who are finding him a bit suspicious.

This is only a weak feeling, but it's there so I'll mention it

While I'm sometimes (/always) tempted to do exactly this on D1, the only time I actually made any attempt at it (that I remember) is Election - as scum. The problem with this line of attack (besides being quite aggressive and bordering on personal) is that it's a very easy way to appear highly active but doesn't actually help in the slightest with your own genuine scum hunting. In other words, a more tempting strategy for scum than town.

And I know I was asked for thoughts on players beyond Splinter, but wanted to highlight this post. I thought it was a bit odd given that CornB wasn't saying that he was doing this, in fact he explicitly said there wasn't such a person in this game who had earned the ire of an auto day 1 vote, and yet Splinter felt the need to chime in and say you know I've had some of the same thoughts from time to time, but the only time I followed through was when I was scum scum scum!

Seems like a way to throw an accusation at CornB for something he isn't really doing.

this is flawed in many respects.
First of all if you don't think scum can pick out a few of the most generally suspicious or trustworthy town players at any given point in time (barring the very start of the game) then why don't you just go ahead and call them what you think they are? "completely fucking incompetent"

Second of all if I don't know your reads before an event it's not going to help you a single bit if you say "yeah I totally had these reads bro" it's fucking useless garbage and I will lynch you just for saying it.

Third what you're really doing is providing scum room to maneuver, you're providing a grey area in which they don't necessarily have to have opinions (this can be caught otherwise) or be held to account for changing their opinions if things go wrong for them. If they scumread a teammate it doesn't look good if they flip that read when the teammates ass is actually on the line, or flip a vote the wrong way at the end of the day.

It's important to know where everyone says their head is at. Very important. To suggest otherwise is seriously dangerous for town and a good way for us to lose the fucking game.

And for the reads lists/top town/scum lists, I'll say that I think every person posting reads lists is useful as far as top scum goes. I would say top town is less useful. Top scum gives a hard line that people have to either back down from or give a solid reason for thinking someone is suspicious. Top town just highlights posters who may be in your blind spot/give a good target for night kills if someone is listed in several peoples lists.

 

[CornBurrito]

It's important to know where everyone says their head is at. Very important. To suggest otherwise is seriously dangerous for town and a good way for us to lose the fucking game.

Read lists are not the only way to accomplish this.

 

[Droplet]

I'll support Squidy on this stance. Having a clear record of your opinions on other players is not a bad thing, and that's an advantage of reads list I won't deny. Filtering it down to top town and top scum gets rid of the need to have a bunch of null reads and doesn't necessarily force players to make up distracting reads for every other player, but gives us another dimension to work with. With our player count being fairly large right now, and with what I'm betting is a small amount of scum, it'd be really easy for scum to not interact with each other at all, and I'd like to hold players accountable where we can. Of course, votes are still the most important thing, but there's no reason we can't supplement that with reads.

Read lists are not the only way to accomplish this.

What do you suggest in their stead? Are you talking about entire reads lists or just any mention of reads at all?

 

[CornBurrito]

I'll support Squidy on this stance. Having a clear record of your opinions on other players is not a bad thing, and that's an advantage of reads list I won't deny. Filtering it down to top town and top scum gets rid of the need to have a bunch of null reads and doesn't necessarily force players to make up distracting reads for every other player, but gives us another dimension to work with. With our player count being fairly large right now, and with what I'm betting is a small amount of scum, it'd be really easy for scum to not interact with each other at all, and I'd like to hold players accountable where we can. Of course, votes are still the most important thing, but there's no reason we can't supplement that with reads.


What do you suggest in their stead? Are you talking about entire reads lists or just any mention of reads at all?

I'm willing to admit my philosophy on read lists might be inaccurate.

My suggestion in their stead is to just talk a lot. If someone keeps talking but never mentions who they are suspicious of.... well thats scummy isn't it?

squidy talks about accountability, and I can be help accountable for numerous things because I've called out at least two people, and voted for at least two. And have an active vote on someone.

 

[CornBurrito]

The combination of these posts from Corn really rubbed me the wrong way when going back through the thread. His voting for splinter is drawn out over 4 posts and something like half a day all to eventually give some basic fluff reasoning for his vote. It strikes me as weird in a day full of people doing fluffy/weird stuff (to be expected on Day 1 I guess). For a day when we are giving people crap for the way they are voting, this stuck out to me.

I'd disagree with this assessment of that post chain. For starters, them being spread out over a large amount of time has to do with the realities of work. Can't post much from work.

Secondly, it isn't exactly a fluff reason. If you read past the words "aroused" and "exciting" you'll see that I basically vote for Splinter because I don't feel he is contributing any unique thoughts to the discussion.

Interestingly I asked Flux and Splinter to provide their thoughts on three players, and neither one of them really bothered doing so. I'm not really sure if that constitutes scum behavior, but it isn't super helpful to town either.

 

[Droplet]

I'm willing to admit my philosophy on read lists might be inaccurate.

My suggestion in their stead is to just talk a lot. If someone keeps talking but never mentions who they are suspicious of.... well thats scummy isn't it?

squidy talks about accountability, and I can be help accountable for numerous things because I've called out at least two people, and voted for at least two. And have an active vote on someone.

That's fair, but I think it works the other way too. If someone doesn't post much, but their posts are dense enough to get real information, then that should be worth something too.

It's 3AM so time for some 3AM-level reads before I knock out. Don't want to leave anyone hanging.

I feel okay about Kawl and possibly Squidy. I don't feel good about Crimson or Flux, but everyone's already pushing on Flux, so I'll keep my vote on Crimson. I see my push caused him to marginally increase his post relevance. It doesn't make me feel much better, but I appreciate the effort. I have no comment on the cat fights in the previous pages, but if they're all going to be based on how players have performed in the past then there's nothing relevant for me to add. Good night all.

 

[cabot]

I'm kind of torn on read lists myself these days, but in this game I may try and just ditch them.

I won't specifically make a read list, I'll just discuss how I feel about someone/others in posts, like the post I made in response to Flush yesterday, right about here.

So I'm still waiting for Ouro's feelings on the game so far, I agree Splinter hasn't really said too much, though I can't tell if it's laziness or scummy, but yes it's not particularly helpful.

I don't like lynching active players on D1, but let's face it, this game mostly consists of active players.

The quieter ones are still pretty active..

 

[Karu]

Might it be helpful to collect a comprehensive list of everybody's stance on if we should post lists, and if yes, what list? It's a data point, doesn't give any information about ones alignments/read away, but can be used as a starting point? Obviously many already chimed in, but it seems all over the place.

 

[cabot]

Royal_Flush. Took the time and had the insight to point out my poor use of logic when I gave Cabot my 'reason' for voting him and wanting him dead. Gave good logic and weirdly responded before Cabot.

*Splinter. Just a general town vibe off of this fella. I believe his silly little gambit thing sort of the same way I believe cornburrito's resistance to reads.

So I don't like this, mainly because I did respond (albeit drunk and in the middle of a night out, dedication). I'll also reiterate that I don't really know what exactly to retort with when you say 'you will always be seen as scum by me, I want you dead'

Flush gave a more logical thought and while he didn't have to, it was an interesting point. I just don't really know what to say when your solution is to kill me, I feel like there's no compromise to be made, you're either doing some kind of gambit, or you just won't maybe accept that your read on me is weak and you'll have to rely on others instead to see if I'm truly scum or not. For a man talking about gaining trust between townies, you sure don't put a lot of faith in their abilities next to your own.

Is that a reaction to my lists or unrelated? CrimsonFist is missing, but I guess you're still suspicious of him? (I don't think he posted anything meaningful since you had him on your scumlist). As this is all just gut I don't have a lot of ground to argue, and the only one I could I'm not allowed to because I would use something from an ongoing game as comparison.

This was kind of following on your thoughts and giving my opinions. I am still suspicious of Crimson yes.

 

[redhood56]

I'll reiterate what I said earlier, but I'll be back later probably around 8pm eat but ill read through the thread and give my thoughts.

 

[CrimsonFist]

I will say that FluxWaveZ's posting so far very much reminds me of when he was intentionally trying to lie low at the start of Woof 2.


Vote: Droplet

So you've been on me for some of my behaviour, but you yourself haven't really provided much beyond that. Fine, you've been inactive for the start of the day, but can you give some thoughts on some other people?

 

[Kawl_USC]

I'd disagree with this assessment of that post chain. For starters, them being spread out over a large amount of time has to do with the realities of work. Can't post much from work.

Secondly, it isn't exactly a fluff reason. If you read past the words "aroused" and "exciting" you'll see that I basically vote for Splinter because I don't feel he is contributing any unique thoughts to the discussion.

Interestingly I asked Flux and Splinter to provide their thoughts on three players, and neither one of them really bothered doing so. I'm not really sure if that constitutes scum behavior, but it isn't super helpful to town either.

My point was more that it's pretty easy to just include a vote in your first post. Doesn't require significantly more time than the posts you did end up making. And okay sure he isn't contributing in your mind a valid reason for voting him, but stringing that along while acting like there was gonna be a bigger explanation just seemed weird to me. But I'll admit of the things I addressed in my posts yours was the one that seemed least suspicious and most just kinda weird.

I will agree that I would like to see both of those players respond when asked for thoughts. Splinter made a few posts after you specifically called him out last night which makes me wonder if he was ignoring it on purpose. (I don't recall when you specifically asked Flux so I can't say the same or not.)

 

[*Splinter]

Kawl, Mazre, and Ouro. Those three seem to have avoided (not through their own efforts) being the topic of conversation. Talk about them Splinter. Or anyone.

I must have missed this post, I had no idea what you were talking about when you said I ignored it.

First of all, if I had anything interesting to say about these I'd've said it. I've never been one to withhold opinions.

Yesterday I was more interested in squidy, he seemed a little unusual and I still want him to justify the utility of a top town list. (I don't doubt that read lists are useful, but squid specifically asked for top town lists).

But since you asked, I'll look at those three players.

Ouro has hardly said anything. I already mentioned this and he still hasn't posted much more. Claims to be busy, not going to waste time prodding him until his promised post arrives.

Mazre I forgot was even in this game, but I just looked back and he said he is travelling or something, so that explains his absence.

(Seriously Corn you know I hate prodding inactives, y u do dis)

Kawl has been reasonably active and I had a townie impression of him... However looking back through his posts I'm not sure why. He's done a little poking around, but upon closer inspection it doesn't seem very genuine.

For example, he questioned Karu on his position on voting:

So as someone who came out swinging with a vote what's your feelings on the difference of opinions between Cabot and Royal Flush? You voted early which leans towards the Cabot method, but also listed out 4 people who are suspicious of while not moving your vote off of your original target as well.

Karu's response doesn't make much sense to Kawl (or to me honestly, it seems a little inconsistent), but he accepts it anyway and drops the line of questioning:

Eh seems to be sitting in the middle of the two positions and doesn't make much sense to me. A weak vote on little reasoning doesn't provide any use in going back and looking at voting patterns either. Cabot provides multiple (possibly superfluous) data points to look at later while prodding people, Royal provides one strong data point of who he find a suspicious every day. You say votes that dilute the benefit of analysis are scummy and move people up your suspicion list, but I don't see how your first vote is useful.

But you've put forth your logic, so fair enough.

"Your answer is inconsistent and makes no sense, but it is an answer so I'll move onto something else".
Really weird to me, I thought Kawl was onto something when Karu responded, but he immediately loses interest. A serious attempt to question Karu would surely have pressed further here?

He's also defended red hood a few times. Not damning but interesting...

VOTE: Kawl_USC

Also not going to put out a top scum list or anything like that until everyone has participated and posted some more.

Kawl you didn't do this yet (unless I missed it). I think it's time.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Kawl has been reasonably active and I had a townie impression of him... However looking back through his posts I'm not sure why. He's done a little poking around, but upon closer inspection it doesn't seem very genuine.

For example, he questioned Karu on his position on voting:

Karu's response doesn't make much sense to Kawl (or to me honestly, it seems a little inconsistent), but he accepts it anyway and drops the line of questioning:

"Your answer is inconsistent and makes no sense, but it is an answer so I'll move onto something else".
Really weird to me, I thought Kawl was onto something when Karu responded, but he immediately loses interest. A serious attempt to question Karu would surely have pressed further here?

He's also defended red hood a few times. Not damning but interesting...

VOTE: Kawl_USC


Kawl you didn't do this yet (unless I missed it). I think it's time.

For Karu, it's more a point of the fact that he has now put forth the logic dictating his actions. While I may not agree with it, it doesn't mean my position or any one else's is necessarily better. Similar to the debate between Cabot and Royal in terms of weight of voting. However, the important fact is that he has now said why he votes the way he does, which lets all see if he is later inconsistent with that. That's why I was fine to let it go for now. Aggressively pushing against someone's logic especially on day 1 will usually just result in a bit of a tiffy 1v1 back and forth, which doesn't really provide that much value imo.

And yea I've defended Redhood twice now, because while I saw a lot of people saying well lets not all bandwagon on him, I only saw one person saying that they didn't see his "I'm town" posts as scummy. Which I didn't find it scummy so I was going to say something.

As far as my top scum lists, see my above post (so that would be yourself, Flux, and Squidy) and add on Ouro for no post of value, and throw in Cabot as floating in my blind spot because I'm fond of the guy I think I'll be unlikely to peg him as scum.

 

[Blargonaut]

Your mum.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Redhood asking the same question back is hardly a deflection. He's made it very clear that he is town (his doubling down contributing to me thinking he's just over eager town versus scum) so a simple yes before returning the question doesn't seem strange.

I really hate this reasoning, and it's come up in enough games I've actually participated in now that I think it's faulty as well. If people know acting "over eager" is an easy way to get into the good graces of town, well, they'll do that. It's not a secret tactic, since everyone keeps saying stuff like "the scum-tell is too obvious for them to be scum." It's the same reason I'm getting heat for my opening post (although, I'm not getting the "over eager town" pass).

The fact that you're so sure Redhood is town is, to me, a red flag.

 

[cabot]

I really hate this reasoning, and it's come up in enough games I've actually participated in now that I think it's faulty as well. If people know acting "over eager" is an easy way to get into the good graces of town, well, they'll do that. It's not a secret tactic, since everyone keeps saying stuff like "the scum-tell is too obvious for them to be scum." It's the same reason I'm getting heat for my opening post (although, I'm not getting the "over eager town" pass).

The fact that you're so sure Redhood is town is, to me, a red flag.

It's a valid reason, I've seen it and it can be abused, but that's a gut call. Obviously there would come a point where you'd lynch later if the poor play continues and it is possible there's scum there, but for day one, I am willing to be a bit more open minded about it.

 

[Mazre]

So Mazre, the only reason I'm suspicious to you is because my leading post was to not ignore/forgive low posters and anti-town behavior in a game like this, even though you agree with that statement? Why is it weird to lead with a post that gives a pre-emptive overview of my perception of this game?

It's weird because it looks townie. As the first post it's visible so most people will build an impression of you and it's a good way of going back into the shadows afterwards without people noticing.
That's kinda what you did. Sure you made an analysis of redhood, but he is by far the easiest target and your points were safe and not very novel.

That's fair. D1 has mainly been about 1v1 petty arguments, with a few interjections here and there. I'm trying to find something to have input on, but other than saying inaneness like "Thinking cabot is scum no matter what he does is pretty dumb," I haven't thought of much else.

Well that was a curious exchange. I get asked a question by Flux, Ty4on answers and Flux says yeah that makes sense and drops it. My suspicion of Flux is largely gut at this point and a few oddball occurrences on his part.

 

[nin1000]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

You better show up in Final Fantasy or i will tell the others about it!

 

[Kawl_USC]

I really hate this reasoning, and it's come up in enough games I've actually participated in now that I think it's faulty as well. If people know acting "over eager" is an easy way to get into the good graces of town, well, they'll do that. It's not a secret tactic, since everyone keeps saying stuff like "the scum-tell is too obvious for them to be scum." It's the same reason I'm getting heat for my opening post (although, I'm not getting the "over eager town" pass).

The fact that you're so sure Redhood is town is, to me, a red flag.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying there. I meant that he had already stated several times over that he was town in his own words. Because of that his response of "yes, are you?" Didn't come off as deflecting to me. It was pretty much asked and answered by that point. I'm not completely sure red hood is town, I just wanted to voice a dissenting opinion from those using it to build a case against him.

 

[CornBurrito]

This thread is slowing down. I dislike that.

UNVOTE

My vote can do better placed elsewhere. I'm going to reread some stuff, but my gut right now wants to throw a vote on Royal.

 

[Kawl_USC]

I really hate this reasoning, and it's come up in enough games I've actually participated in now that I think it's faulty as well. If people know acting "over eager" is an easy way to get into the good graces of town, well, they'll do that. It's not a secret tactic, since everyone keeps saying stuff like "the scum-tell is too obvious for them to be scum." It's the same reason I'm getting heat for my opening post (although, I'm not getting the "over eager town" pass).

The fact that you're so sure Redhood is town is, to me, a red flag.

And I didn't like that basically he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't in your eyes. Original suspicion is from claiming town, then he is too flippant while saying he is town.

And like I said I wanted to weigh in on the opposite side because I felt that his play is more of a neutral read than it was being portrayed at the time.

And agreed on the slow down, FF has made q resurgence with Blargs appearance letting me uneat my crow from earlier.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

And I didn't like that basically he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't in your eyes. Original suspicion is from claiming town, then he is too flippant while saying he is town.

Hold on, where did you get this from? My suspicion came from the emphasis on saying they're town, when no other player has done so. I asked them directly if they were town to see if their response would change, and their reply was to double down on it once again, while also directing the question back at me.

Do you see any value at all in reassuring others that we're town with empty statements like "I'm town"? It's a useless exercise, and one redhood found would be helpful in some way to constantly repeat. I don't know where you're getting flippancy from, unless you're referring to redhood's reaction when they were voted on once.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Hold on, where did you get this from? My suspicion came from the emphasis on saying they're town, when no other player has done so. I asked them directly if they were town to see if their response would change, and their reply was to double down on it once again, while also directing the question back at me.

Do you see any value at all in reassuring others that we're town with empty statements like "I'm town"? It's a useless exercise, and one redhood found would be helpful in some way to constantly repeat. I don't know where you're getting flippancy from, unless you're referring to redhood's reaction when they were voted on once.

But your question itself was pretty worthless. What did you expect him to say? "No, I'm actually scum, please lynch me"? It's one thing to emphasise the fact that you're town unprompted, but if directly asked, of course that's how someone is going to answer.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

But your question itself was pretty worthless. What did you expect him to say? "No, I'm actually scum, please lynch me"? It's one thing to emphasise the fact that you're town unprompted, but if directly asked, of course that's how someone is going to answer.

That's true, too, I did say myself it was a dumb question. But I expected him to at least reign his "I'm town" bit, or at least acknowledge it. Instead, it was stated completely straight like always, which is what I was wary of.

 

[CornBurrito]

Fuck it. I'll post a read list.

Droplet - null
redhood56 - WILL REVEAL LATER
Ourobolus - dude hasn't posted but seems to have RL reasons.
*Splinter - hate this guy. town.
Burbeting - useful is town. null read.
Mazre - null
squidyj - unsure
cabot - town
Karu - null
Royal_Flush - unsure, lean scumish
Ty4on - null. will keep eye on.
CrimsonFist - dangerous because many seem unable to read him.
Kawl_USC - unsure. lean townish
FluxWaveZ - pinging my scumdar slightly but not nearly enough to justify a vote. will say null for now.

 

[Ty4on]

That's true, too, I did say myself it was a dumb question. But I expected him to at least reign his "I'm town" bit, or at least acknowledge it. Instead, it was stated completely straight like always, which is what I was wary of.

Well Flux, are you town?

 

[Ourobolus]

Note: I started writing this as of post #333, so if stuff has changed since then, bear with me.

Sorry about the lack of activity. Been a busy week. I'll try to summarize the current state of the players and add my opinions in as well. I'll add in who I think they are currently considering town/scum based on their posts (if it isn't obvious).

01. Droplet - Droplet was out for the first RL day (much like I was - hope your final went well!), so I don't hold that against her. RL is a bitch. Sadly, I don't have much to go on as Drop was brutally murdered by woofs early on in Werewolf Redux, so I'll have to read her as she goes.

• 
  Is wary of the people calling out low-post-count players.
  Supports read lists.
  Town: Kawl, Squidy
  Scum: Crimson, Flux

Drop's posts so far are mostly commenting on the things that have already been discussed, which amounts to low-post-counting and read lists. Nothing really sticks out yet, but she is pressuring people to vote, which I consider a good thing. GUT: Town

02. redhood56 - Immediately claimed innocent, which, ok, is kinda weird. Nobody here has any way to prove their innocence, and likely won't for the rest of the game. Also was worried about a dogpile on D1? What?

• 
  Wary of the people self voting.
  Latched onto Squidy's comment about being a townie with him.
  Concerned about cabot, but is unsure if it is too obvious or not.
  Also concerned about Flush.
  Town: Squidy?
  Scum: Cabot, Flush?

Redhood is currently on my radar. It's still early, though I can't tell if it's scum flailing about trying to decrease suspicion, or town that is trying to do the same thing. GUT: Slight Scum Lean, but I could be wrong.

04. *Splinter - Has been pretty aggressive once he started posting. Previous experience tells me that scum Splinter plays like town, and town Splinter plays like scum, though. Likes to taunt CornBurrito, but to be fair, after DR, who wouldn't?

• 
  Prefers to lynch low-activity posters on D1.
  Generally has responded to most accusations/questions thrown his way
  Currently has a vote on Kawl, claiming his activity, while seemingly town-like, doesn't feel genuine to him
  Town: Can't tell
  Scum: Flush, Kawl, Drop?

I don't know what it is, but Splinter is giving me scum vibes. He's constantly reacting, and while I somewhat agree with him on the idea that on D1, lynching low rather than high is possibly the best strategy unless something obvious happens, he also mentioned something weird early on about himself wanting to blend in with low activity. Splinter's experienced enough that I wouldn't expect scum Splinter to say something like that, but it's still weird. GUT: Lean Scum

05. Burbeting - Oddly quiet. Burb is usually on top of everyone, and while I think the posts he has made have been relatively useful, he's definitely quite a lot more active in previous games.

• 
  Wary of squidy and redhood's interaction.
  Finds Cabot defensive
  Worried about blind spots (i.e. players he hasn't really played with before)
  Town: Can't tell
  Scum: Squidy, Redhood, CornBurrito, Cabot

His activity level concerns me (yes, this is the pot calling the kettle black). I've never seen scum Burb before, but I think he's smart enough that if he was scum he'd play relatively the same way. He and Squidy going back and forth reminds me of Sorian and Squidy in one of the previous games and both ended up being town. GUT: Unsure. Flags are popping up either way for me.

06. Mazre - Like Burbeting, Mazre is usually a *bit* more active (still pretty low-activity in the grand scheme of things though). Granted he was scum in the last game he played in and he was far more active there than in AC, but still. His posts haven't been all the contributive so far. I see he mentioned holiday travel so that could be accounting for it though.

• 
  Primarily wary of Flux for his initial post
  Town: Can't tell
  Scum: Flux, redhood, Ouro, Splinter

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the holiday travel. Scum Mazre concerns me though - I consider him to be a pretty decent player, and he'll find a way to blend in. However, for now, I'm thinking today has just been a lull for him. GUT: Lean Town

07. CornBurrito - Corn is playing as I expected, which is usually concerning . Scum Corn and Town Corn are two sides of the same coin, and it's usually a scum coin.

• 
  Isn't feeling the reads lists, feels like scum could use it to their advantage
  Town: Can't tell
  Scum: Splinter, Flux, Inactives

Going in hard on Splinter, which I support for the time being. He had an interesting exchange with Ty4on regarding reads lists - on one hand I agree with the thought that scum can use the reads lists to their advantage, pretty much any kill at night is going to put us in WIFOM territory, where we're left wondering if the person was killed because they were right, or if it's a distraction, or may scum is smart enough to know we'd eventually talk about it and go after this guy, etc. etc. I personally think reads lists can be useful - since we don't have PRs we'll primarily have to use logic and reasoning to sniff out scum. GUT: Lean Town, but could be wrong

08. squidyj - Yep, it's squidy.

• 
  Went hard after cabot right out the gate
  Rather suspicious of Burb
  Town: Corn, Flush, Splinter
  Scum: Burb, Cabot, Karu, Redhood

I jokingly said it earlier, but there was a kernel of truth behind it. Squidy is playing as I expected. While I'm not sold on his intial hammering of Cabot, he's generally aggressive and goes after who he thinks is scum hard. Scum squidy is similar to Town Squidy (as evidenced by NV), but it's not really much of an indicator on which way he is this game. For now, I'm inclined to believe he's town, if at least for the reason that it gets people talking. GUT: Town


Working on the other half now.

 

[squidyj]

Okay so there's 24h left in this day phase, give or take, and here's my attitudes about scum behaviour

I feel like there are many levels of scum hell.
The first level of scum hell is non-posting, you don't know what to say and you worry about saying the wrong thing so you say nothing at all.

The second level of scum hell is non-contributing, you know you need to post but you have a hard time coming up with reads you have a hard time trying to figure out the game because you already know the game. So you wind up parroting other people, giving structural posts that describe the state of the game but require no real reads or insight into the game as it is being played, or you just post pure fluff

The third level of scum hell is non-confrontational. You manage to come up with reads but any time someone has a read on a player that is correct you have a hard time putting out a conflicting read because you know they are right and you don't feel comfortable crossing sabers when you can only see how it ends badly for you. So you tend not to challenge the reads of other people as much. and you certainly don't want to put your reads against their reads in a head 2 head deathmatch.

I don't think this is a level of scum hell but in the early game I feel that scum is generally loathe to jump on a bandwagon. If it's a teammate they tend to feel they can get someone else lynched this early and if it's a townmember they don't want anyone to be able to point to them as "hey you were bandwagoneering over there". They don't want to be associated with it.

I wish for you to review my behaviour in this game using my thinking here and tell me what I was doing.

First prize is a new car, second prize is a set of steak knives, third prize is you're fired.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Well Flux, are you town?

My answer to this question doesn't matter. Just like mine towards redhood, it's inane, but especially so since I'm not the one who's been going around carrying a flag with the word "TOWN" written on it.

 

[CornBurrito]

My answer to this question doesn't matter. Just like mine towards redhood, it's inane, but especially so since I'm not the one who's been going around carrying a flag with the word "TOWN" written on it.

I think you and others are making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Ty4on]

My answer to this question doesn't matter. Just like mine towards redhood, it's inane, but especially so since I'm not the one who's been going around carrying a flag with the word "TOWN" written on it.

Yeah, that question made more sense yesterday. You and Kawl had some friction which is what I wanted to see more of.

UNVOTE

Squidyj... Did exactly what he warned about (being meta instead of prodding to find scum), but overall that post makes me a little less worried of him.
Ourobuli post did much more than I could have asked for and he isn't done.

Spoiler

I'll vote for you if there's no part 2 though

Spoiler

Maybe...

This is s such a lazy read. I'm stuck with family for the time being, but I looked over the votes and one person stood out having received zero. Two of you discount my self vote.

VOTE: Burbeting

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I think you and others are making a mountain out of a molehill.

I don't actually think it's that much of a scumtell, only something to keep in mind. I'm more wary of Kawl_USC's devil advocacy than I am of redhood at this point.

Unvote

 

[Ty4on]

Yeah, that question made more sense yesterday. You and Kawl had some friction which is what I wanted to see more of.

Silly phrasing here. I don't really have any opinion one way or the other regarding Flux's response.