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Hell at Tesla

sphagnum

Banned
A lot of people sing praises of Elon Musk for his admittedly exciting projects, but it must be remembered that Musk is not Tesla or any of his ventures - he is merely one man who leads operations, and those operations only function because of the blood and sweat of the laborers he hires. And I do mean blood. There have been increasing calls for unionization at Tesla and reports of dangerous working conditions. A couple articles came out again in the past few days about these issues, so while everyone focuses on the newest Tesla launch I feel it would be appropriate to remind people of the fact that these products don't make themselves and there is a lot of hero worship that could use some criticism.

Early production has been slow, but Musk expects to be able to produce 20,000 Model 3 Teslas per month by December. Ramping up production is going to be brutal, Musk warned.

"We're going to go through at least six months of manufacturing hell," the Tesla CEO told a group of journalists ahead of the Model 3 event. On stage, Musk echoed the sentiment.

According to the Fremont, Calif., factory workers, Tesla is already putting its employees through a lot.

"One of the most serious issues concerns our health and safety," says a letter a group of factory workers from Tesla's main Fremont, Calif., facility submitted to the independent board members of Tesla on Monday, just three days after the Model 3 event and amid an ongoing effort to unionize.

"Accidents happen every day. Severe incidents frequently impact morale and cause delays in production. We are losing great workers who are valuable to both our production team and to their families while they spend time on medical leave, recovering from preventable injuries."


In May, California-based worker safety organization Worksafe published an extensive report after it analyzed the log of work-related injuries and illnesses at Tesla.

It found that Tesla's "total recordable incidence rate" was 8.8 percent (8.8 injuries per 100 workers) in 2015, the last full-year that data is available for. That's 31 percent more than the 6.7 percent total recordable incidence rate for the automobile industry as a whole, the report found, citing Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

That 8.8 percent injury rate is higher than the similar injury rates of both sawmills and slaughterhouses, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Sawmills have an injury rate of 7.3 percent and slaughterhouses have an injury rate of 5.1 to 7.3 percent, depending on the type of processing.


The issue of worker safety at Tesla manufacturing facilities is not new. Tesla factory worker Jose Moran wrote a post on Medium in February detailing the conditions and proposing a union. "We are working hard to build the world's #1 car  —  not just electric, but overall. Unfortunately, however, I often feel like I am working for a company of the future under working conditions of the past," Moran wrote.

...

The workers say they want access to information about the dangers of the jobs they are doing, and they want a voice in the conversation about how to fix the safety issues.

Beyond safety concerns, the group wants clear guidelines on what is required to be promoted at the company. "Many of us have worked hard for years with the vague promise of a raise, to no end," the letter states.

Pay at the Fremont production facility starts at $18 per hour, which is below both the national average for auto workers ($25.58), according to The International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (UAW).


...
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/01/tesla-workers-complain-about-factory-safety.html


Tesla workers agitating for a union have gone to the company's board to make their demands clear.

Employees at the electric automaker's factory in Fremont, California, have been agitating for a union since Jose Moran, a production associate, wrote a Medium post in January detailing difficult work conditions at the flagship plant. The bulk of the demands has since centered on improving equipment to reduce workplace injuries.

The Tesla Workers' Organizing Committee, which is leading the unionization effort, said in the Monday letter that it was raising the issues to the board because they hadn't been resolved after approaching Tesla's management.

"We have raised these issues repeatedly, but they remain unresolved," the letter reads. "Your guidance navigating them would be invaluable as we work to become the most profitable and productive auto company in the US."

Tesla did not respond to a request for comment.

...

The committee also calls on Tesla to release clear policies on how Fremont factory workers can get promoted, adding that "there are no guidelines for what is expected of us or what defines success."

It also asks Tesla to refrain from using anti-union rhetoric or action. In April, the United Auto Workers and three Tesla employees filed separate charges with the National Labor Relations Board claiming the company had coerced employees trying to aid the unionization effort into silence.


...

Some Tesla factory workers claim they have experienced grueling work conditions during the start of new vehicle production, particularly with the Model X, which was severely delayed and went through a voluntary recall. Tesla has struggled to produce cars on time, ultimately resulting in long hours in difficult conditions, workers say.

Musk originally called injury allegations at the Fremont plant "disingenuous or outright false" but has since told employees to report injuries directly to him.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-union-fremont-board-demands-2017-7
 

mnannola

Member
So Tesla factory workers get paid less and get injured more than the average auto worker? Hard to argue against them forming a union in that case.
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I'm not a massive Tesla fan, but I do believe some people woefully underestimate the amount of drive, intelligence, hard work, and luck it takes to even make the tiniest of ripples in the automotive agency. And Tesla is single-handidly leading the charge for consumer adoption of electric vehicles and, arguably, autonomy.

It's a monumental achievement, what they have done.
 
I'm not a massive Tesla fan, but I do believe some people woefully underestimate the amount of drive, intelligence, hard work, and luck it takes to even make the tiniest of ripples in the automotive agency. And Tesla is single-handidly leading the charge for consumer adoption of electric vehicles and, arguably, autonomy.

It's a monumental achievement, what they have done.

And meanwhile they pay people less and put them at greater risk of injury.
 

collige

Banned
I'm not a massive Tesla fan, but I do believe some people woefully underestimate the amount of drive, intelligence, hard work, and luck it takes to even make the tiniest of ripples in the automotive agency. And Tesla is single-handidly leading the charge for consumer adoption of electric vehicles and, arguably, autonomy.

It's a monumental achievement, what they have done.

What does this have to do with the thread? They're far below the manufacturing standards set by the rest of the industry. They can make ripples in the industry without mistreating their employees.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I have learned in my career as an Engineer that manufacturing is its own complete animal and has issues and challenges that are simply beyond the scope of a typical tech-head's training and experience. So a tech company having problems with this makes sense, especially if they are hiring relatively inexperienced non-union workers.
 

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
What does this have to do with the thread? They're far below the manufacturing standards set by the rest of the industry. They can make ripples in the industry without mistreating their employees.

It takes a lot of drive to ignore the suffering of your employees.
 
All I can think is they want more money. I'm sure it's a tough job, but when money is involved you should really take this stuff with a grain of salt.
 

studyguy

Member
My girlfriend's sister nearly broke up with her fiancé who worked at Tesla. Dude ended up quitting since I guess his work/life balance was literally all work, no life.
 
I'm not a massive Tesla fan, but I do believe some people woefully underestimate the amount of drive, intelligence, hard work, and luck it takes to even make the tiniest of ripples in the automotive agency. And Tesla is single-handidly leading the charge for consumer adoption of electric vehicles and, arguably, autonomy.

It's a monumental achievement, what they have done.

What does this little advertisement have to do with their poor working conditions?
 
Very much like what Tesla is doing in general, but they should be striving for quality in all manners of their business. Wish the best for those factory workers. It's not easy.

They should form a union. Being anti-union is anti-American.
 
Elon has been vocal about his goal is to automate the entire manufacturing process. Trying to unionize at this point could likely accelerate his plans.
 

Rockandrollclown

lookwhatyou'vedone
I hope they're successful in unionizing. Unions need to make a comeback in America. Seems weird that if you're injuring that many additional people than the norm that OSHA wouldn't step in.
 
All I can think is they want more money. I'm sure it's a tough job, but when money is involved you should really take this stuff with a grain of salt.
I mean, yeah? The data seems clear. They are on average paid less than other workers and are exposed to more incidents at the workplace.

Why shouldn't they want to improve that?
 

collige

Banned
All I can think is they want more money. I'm sure it's a tough job, but when money is involved you should really take this stuff with a grain of salt.

Even ignoring the injury rates, of fucking course they want more money. They're getting paid ~70% of the industry average with no raises.
 

blugbox

Neo Member
What are the particular safety hazards this factory has that make it worse than any other? Is it unique to being all electric? Like battery hazards? I never saw exactly what made it more unsafe... unless it's like forcing them to work so long they get tired or maybe inadequate training...

I really hope they can work something out. Safety is a top priority and you need willing workers to make the dream real.
 

RuGalz

Member
I'm curious to know what is causing the higher level of injuries. Is it purely because of the work environment? Is there not enough guidelines or training in place? Workers over-stressed? etc
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
What would be the case against workers forming a union in your opinion?

Paid more and better incident rates?

I mean, pretty simple.

Tesla is just another shitty company exploiting workers with a guy on top who is praised to high heavens so people ignore it.

If they're paid less and work in worse conditions, how do they not have trouble finding people to hire?

People got to pay rent and put food on the table. $18 is shit for the work, but it's better than a lot of jobs pays. It's a catch-22. So many companies exploit workers for shit pay, but what choice do people have... our safety nets are broken.
 
I'm curious to know what is causing the higher level of injuries. Is it purely because of the work environment? Is there not enough guidelines or training in place? Workers over-stressed? etc

It's hard to say because it's one year's data. The injury rate could have been 0% the years before and after, but the article doesn't say if this is a pattern or an anomaly.
 
Makes sense. Tesla is trying to push itself into a market where the big players want 'em out. Time constraints make a world of difference for safety.
 

Ferr986

Member
If they're paid less and work in worse conditions, how do they not have trouble finding people to hire?

Because people still need to work.
They go there, thinking "it's not that bad and I need the money", then they left because its that bad and a new one enters, rinse and repeat.

I really not understand the aversion towards unions in the US...
 
I really not understand the aversion towards unions in the US...

Unions tend to keep bad workers, so when someone is fired from their non-union job and they see shitty teacher X who's part of a union still teaching they get angry. It ripples out. There's plenty of good unions but folks can always point to the big 2 (teachers and police) and say how incompetent those workers are thus unions are bad.

Folks outside unions hate unions until they're in a union.
 

komplanen

Member
Hey Elon I just want to say one day I'm going to be a more successful billionaire than you and I'm going to destroy people who treat their workers like shit so you better watch out.

Sure I had to use auto-correct to spell successful, but I'm coming and you'd better put a seat belt on because once I sober up and get out of debt it's gonna get ugly for people like you.

YEAH I'M DOT DRUNK AT ALL :-3

EDIT: I still go to sleep in Elon Musk brand pajamas and dream of all the same things he does so chances are we'll be best partners in automating the simulated future we're going towards. That is >if< I get sober
 

jmood88

Member
I'm not a massive Tesla fan, but I do believe some people woefully underestimate the amount of drive, intelligence, hard work, and luck it takes to even make the tiniest of ripples in the automotive agency. And Tesla is single-handidly leading the charge for consumer adoption of electric vehicles and, arguably, autonomy.

It's a monumental achievement, what they have done.
What does this have to do with the horrible working conditions?
 

T.v

Member
The committee also calls on Tesla to release clear policies on how Fremont factory workers can get promoted, adding that "there are no guidelines for what is expected of us or what defines success."

This is a thing? Like a roadmap to getting promoted?
Is it not just: work hard, show initiative and hope you get rewarded for it?
 

G-Bus

Banned
Paid more and better incident rates?

I mean, pretty simple.

Tesla is just another shitty company exploiting workers with a guy on top who is praised to high heavens so people ignore it.



People got to pay rent and put food on the table. $18 is shit for the work, but it's better than a lot of jobs pays. It's a catch-22. So many companies exploit workers for shit pay, but what choice do people have... our safety nets are broken.

To Unionize. That's really the best option.

Hope it works out for them.

In this day and age there really isn't an excuse for not paying your workers a good living wage and health benefits.

Everything starts at the bottom. Take care of them and your company will flourish.
 
Well you have hundreds of thousands of anxious Model 3 customers who can't stop asking Musk about when they will get delivery of the car. Tesla's company worth hinges on them delivering those cars on time, and Tesla needs to be successful and profitable in order for Musk's other projects and initiatives to come to fruition.

All of that puts intense pressure on the company and its factory workers.
 
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