Support NeoGAF

[samn]

Version - Speed - coding - connectors
USB 2.0 - up to 480mbit/s - 8/10bit - type a, b, mini, micro, c
USB 3.1 gen 1 - up to 5Gbit/s - 8/10 bit - type a, b, mini, micro, c
USB 3.1 gen 1 - up tp 10Gbit/s - 128/130bit - type a, b, mini, micro, c

time to start again with USB-D. what a mess

also there's a typo in your table of gen 1 and gen 1 repeated twice

 

[Sony]

Creating a one-connector standard that can be used to plug a metric ton of different I/O standards was never meant to be simple or easy.

All that information doesn’t negate anything that tweet says, or the advantages of the universal connector. Stuff mostly will still “just work” because there are a lot of failsafes in place, and the whole thing will fall back to the minimum it can support under the conditions, even if it is for example USB 2.0. Sure, people will need to be educated on optimisation because they are used to the simplicity of “if it fits here, it’s the adequate cable” but in this day and age that’s less and less of a worry, many people plug into their laptops barely anything else than the charger, a USB stick and eventually a mouse sometimes, and there will still be a big advantage in the connector being the same for everything instead of each of there being different connectors with specific use-cases.

This is not something that will magically get “fixed” going forward short of all the very possible protocols (HDMI, USB, Thunderbolt, DIsplayPort, power standards, etc) get merged into one which is unrealistic and unfeasible, so unless you’re suggesting that Microsoft et all backpedal on the USB-C plan, I don’t see what’s wrong with the tweet at all. There may be an issue with the message that the manufacturers need to pass to the public, but not with the port.

Oh I agree that a one-size fits all I/O connecter for different porposes was never going to be easy. It was going to be complicated. But instead of being complicated, due to lack of information and consistency, they made it complex. There is this general idea that usb-type c connector is a 3.1 gen 2 connector offering full-speed, while it's just a connected. And I'm not suggesting backpeddling on the USB-C plan, there are some clarifying changes coming up, but it doesn't warrant saying "Microsoft should fully adapt USB-C". What does fully adapt even mean? Does that mean replace all ports with USB-C? Then hell no. Why is there no middle ground, why not include 1 usb-c port? It's the "fully adapt" that rustles my jimmies.

time to start again with USB-D. what a mess

also there's a typo in your table of gen 1 and gen 1 repeated twice

Thanks, updated ^^

 

[jts]

Don’t mind the loss of the chime (it can be annoying when you’re updating your computer in the silence of your bedroom), but the auto-on stuff worries me. Sometimes, for specific reasons, you'll want to keep your computer fully off. Be it because you spilled some liquid and fear water damage or any other reason. Not being able to take off the battery is already not ideal as it is, but worrying that the computer will turn on by itself is even worse. And for what good, to save a button press that you’ll do a handful times a year? Apple please.

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Was going to buy a MacBook Pro but now I'm sure. Thinking about buying an 13 inch Air and calling it a day until Apple releases a Pro that I might actually want.

Anyone who has a 13 inch Air care to give their experience with it?

 

[Blackhead]

From Six Colors:

On stage Thursday, Schiller said that the MacBook Pro’s keyboard was a second-generation version of the MacBook keyboard and featured design changes to give it more movement feel. As someone who is not a fan of the very small amount of keyboard travel on the MacBook keyboard, I noted the phrasing. He didn’t say the keys moved more, just that they felt better.

Well, it’s my sad duty to report that the MacBook Pro keyboard has the same key travel as the MacBook. Apple says the stainless steel dome switch beneath each key has been honed to give you a more responsive feel, but to me it feels just like the MacBook’s keyboard. (To be fair, I don’t have a MacBook available to test directly. It’s possible that this keyboard does indeed feel more responsive than the MacBook, but I would never mistake it for the old MacBook Pro or MacBook Air keyboards or even the Magic Keyboard.)

If you like the MacBook’s keyboard, good news! You’re gonna get it. If you don’t like it—well, I don’t know what to tell you. It seems like this is the keyboard style Apple’s going to give us on laptops until the day comes when it does away with physical keys altogether.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Was going to buy a MacBook Pro but now I'm sure. Thinking about buying an 13 inch Air and calling it a day until Apple releases a Pro that I might actually want.

Anyone who has a 13 inch Air care to give their experience with it?

Why did you want a Pro if a 13" Air's performance could suit you? I'm confused.

 

[Blackhead]

Why did you want a Pro if a 13" Air's performance could suit you? I'm confused.

Better/bigger screen

 

[jstripes]

Don’t mind the loss of the chime (it can be annoying when you’re updating your computer in the silence of your bedroom), but the auto-on stuff worries me. Sometimes, for specific reasons, you'll want to keep your computer fully off. Be it because you spilled some liquid and fear water damage or any other reason. Not being able to take off the battery is already not ideal as it is, but worrying that the computer will turn on by itself is even worse. And for what good, to save a button press that you’ll do a handful times a year? Apple please.

I'm not to fond of the auto-start when you open the lid, in my mind there's always scenarios when you don't want that, but again, it makes sense in the context of "always on".

It's quite the progression from the '90s, when most computers didn't even have sleep mode. You went to bed, you shut that thing off. You even had to push the power button, it didn't do it by itself.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Better/bigger screen

If you appreciate screens you do not want to commit to the 13" Macbook Air.

 

[jts]

The Air just seems outdated at this point, with a low-resolution display (for today’s standards) that is a TN panel, has huge bezels. And I guess that’s mostly it.

Performance-wise it doesn’t fall too far behind the new entry-level MacBook Pro (except graphically) BUT...

...it has an awesome 12-hour battery and a proper traditional keyboard. And it’s still thin and light.

Reckon a retina MacBook Air with updated silicon would be great. But alas.

 

[icespide]

my wife has a 13 inch Air and using it makes me physically ill

 

[giga]

I'd only recommend getting an air if you're blind.

 

[RoKKeR]

Man, the pricing of these things really hit me today. I think I'm going to upgrade sometime mid-next year, and an XPS 15 with the exact same specs is $800 less than the MBP counterpart.... that is just nuts.

I'd love to pick up a beastly new MBP, but I just can't stomach the prices. By the time I'll really be seriously shopping, the 1050's will have made their way into laptops as well, which I would love for some light gaming on the go.

Oh and yes, the Air is basically obsolete at this point in terms of the specs and display... the non-Pro Macbook is essentially the "new" Air. (I think)

 

[jstripes]

The Air just seems outdated at this point, with a low-resolution display (for today’s standards) that is a TN panel, has huge bezels. And I guess that’s mostly it.

Performance-wise it doesn’t fall too far behind the new entry-level MacBook Pro (except graphically) BUT...

...it has an awesome 12-hour battery and a proper traditional keyboard. And it’s still thin and light.

Reckon a retina MacBook Air with updated silicon would be great. But alas.

If they want to keep the college crowd, they need to do something with the Air. There's a bit of hubris with how they're operating, and it's gonna bite them in the ass.

 

[EmiPrime]

I still love my Air. Buying a MacBook One would cost me double what I paid for my 11" Air 2 years ago (no more free Applecare for students) and I would get a way worse keyboard and no Magsafe.

 

[Guess Who]

I would guess that in the next year or two, the 12" MacBook will drop to $999 and the baseline 13" Pro will be $1299, and they will essentially replace the 11" and 13" Airs, respectively.

 

[icespide]

I still love my Air. Buying a MacBook One would cost me double what I paid for my 11" Air 2 years ago (no more free Applecare for students) and I would get a way worse keyboard and no Magsafe.

but also a computer that's like a billion times better (roughly)

 

[EmiPrime]

but also a computer that's like a billion times better (roughly)

Your face is a billion times better.

 

[icespide]

Your face is a billion times better.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

What's a MacBook One?

 

[entremet]

Been thinking about this refresh for a while. Probably one of Apple's more critiqued in recent years.

They're really getting complicated with the product lines.

It really should go back to consumer and pro lines of old. First, kill the MBA dead. Then do this.

Consumer

12 inch Macbook
13 inch Macbook

No Touchbar. Keep I/O as is. 2 USB-C ports.

Pro
13 inch MBP
15 inch MBP

Both with Touch and Non Touchbar options. Keep HDMI and SD slots. It is the Pro line!

Done!

Where's my consulting fee, Apple.

 

[Zeyphersan]

What's a MacBook One?

Nickname for the 12" Retina MacBook, since there's only one port

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Thanks for the quick replies. Guess I'll go ahead and buy last years Pro. I had honestly forgot about the Air's shitty screen so yeah that's definitely not an option.

 

[manakel]

It'll settle down. The biggest issue with these laptops is the price jump and the amount of time to get these things out; the usual gripes about it being not innovative or a disappointment is mostly just noise. Touch bar ain't amazing, but if the machines are built solid and run mostly up to expectations, then you just have a bunch of price complaints and some connectivity quibbles that will get flushed out.

If they continue to delay upgrading their laptop and desktops line in favor of focusing on purely mobile, along with not managing some of these connectivity issues better, then Apple will start to have a longer term problem building up (although mobile, consumer loyalty, and corporate inertia will keep them up top for quite a while).

Microsoft is upping their game, but let's not over exaggerate things: They still have quite a ways to go to build things up to the level of where people will consistently and reliably rely on them to provide quality hardware. They've been making a lot of the right noises of late, but they need to get their manufacturing game up to par, and show some real commitment to sticking with their platforms (they countless iterations of Windows Phone, Microsoft Band, Zune, their other brief forays into certain segments like routers, etc).

Completely agree. Microsoft has really been upping their game lately, but they have to sustain that to make a real impact and gain customer loyalty. I have a Surface for my graduate program, and so many people have asked me what it was; I've even gotten a few of my colleagues to get one. If they continue along this path, maybe in a few years they'll gain the same traction Apple has had for all of these years.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Mike (detroit borg) has his video up for the air replacement version of the pro. He loves it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXBD_Ex4h8Y

 

[Ephemeris]

(Seriously though, when you reboot and need to listen for the beeps for stuff like resetting PRAM etc what will happen now?)

hold the keys for 20 seconds

 

[Sean]

Mike (detroit borg) has his video up for the air replacement version of the pro. He loves it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXBD_Ex4h8Y

Thanks for that, was really informative as an Air owner looking to upgrade.

Colors in the new display seem crazy good.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Thanks for that, was really informative as an Air owner looking to upgrade.

Colors in the new display seem crazy good.

even next to the last gen pro it was noticably different in the video.

 

[sikkinixx]

Been thinking about this refresh for a while. Probably one of Apple's more critiqued in recent years.

They're really getting complicated with the product lines.

It really should go back to consumer and pro lines of old. First, kill the MBA dead. Then do this.

Consumer

12 inch Macbook
13 inch Macbook

No Touchbar. Keep I/O as is. 2 USB-C ports.

Pro
13 inch MBP
15 inch MBP

Both with Touch and Non Touchbar options. Keep HDMI and SD slots. It is the Pro line!

Done!

Where's my consulting fee, Apple.

100% this. Why they have three lines oddly dispersed of laptops is beyond me.

Though I say the Touchbar is included in the Pros. Like you said, it's the Pro line.

 

[giga]

Weird that they didn't mention there's less glare.

 

[Darryl M R]

Weird that they didn't mention there's less glare.

Is less glare a result of the brighter screen?

 

[holygeesus]

Weird that they didn't mention there's less glare.

They do. 3:41.

 

[giga]

They do. 3:41.

By they I mean Apple.

 

[Fliesen]

Thanks for that, was really informative as an Air owner looking to upgrade.

Colors in the new display seem crazy good.

to be fair, i could do the very same shot on my first gen retina macbook and the macbook air.

The air's screen is just so bad.

edit: there you go:

(of course that doesn't change the fact that the newest display is even more accurate / vibrant than the original retina screen. Still, most of that big difference you're seeing would've already been bridged by the original retina macbook)

 

[radios shipping overview]

This event helped me make a decision I'd been putting off for a while. I'm gonna build a macOS-compatible i7 PC and dual boot.

 

[icespide]

that display is fuckable. Might be the biggest upgrade of the new machine

 

[faceless007]

Mike (detroit borg) has his video up for the air replacement version of the pro. He loves it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXBD_Ex4h8Y

It seems like small things but I'm put off by how Apple has seemingly gone into penny-pinching mode by no longer packing in the wall extension cord or cleaning cloth, yet hiking up the prices as much as they did. Little things like that really contributed to the feeling of getting a premium product, or at least the idea that Apple included things to make using the product a little simpler.

Overall the non-Touch Bar Pro seems like a really weird fit in the lineup due to its lower specs and fewer ports, but still significantly more expensive than the Air or rMB. Why do I have to make the trade off on specs just because I want to keep actual F keys? Why remove 2 ports and significantly handicap its extensibility but still call it a Pro? It used to be constant that each Mac model would have the same port configuration, that made it simple. I'm reminded, not in a good way, of Steve Jobs talk of simplifying Apple's product strategy when he came back in 1997. The current laptop lineup feels needlessly messy and like they're trying to have lots of different price points covered but still act like each model is uniquely valuable.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Can someone explain why the touchpad is so much bigger? It looks kind of silly. Phil said something dumb at the event like "easier to swipe".

i agree with this. With high capacitiy batteries and insignificant power draw in closed mode, you mostly only hear the chime when people had to force shutdown and reboot their mac because it got unresponsive

What about the desktops though? Do most people leave them on or let them sleep? I don't reboot my Mac Pro often, but when I do I want to hear that familiar sound.

I've heard variations of the chime sound since I was a kid. It's part of the Mac psyche. Why would they take it away? There's literally no reason for them to do so, except as some shitty branding maneuver to make the Macs like iOS devices. I feel much worse about this than the ports, because this strikes at the heart.

 

[mrkgoo]

that display is fuckable. Might be the biggest upgrade of the new machine

They said something's like 60 % brighter. That's really significant. The retina screen was already top notch, and they made it thinner and brighter and more power efficient. Not just a little bit over half as bright again.

 

[mrkgoo]

Can someone explain why the touchpad is so much bigger? It looks kind of silly. Phil said something dumb at the event like "easier to swipe".




What about the desktops though? Do most people leave them on or let them sleep? I don't reboot my Mac Pro often, but when I do I want to hear that familiar sound.

I've heard variations of the chime sound since I was a kid. It's part of the Mac psyche. Why would they take it away? There's literally no reason for them to do so, except as some shitty branding maneuver to make the Macs like iOS devices. I feel much worse about this than the ports, because this strikes at the heart.

I turn my desktop off every night.

The chime is a tradition, but really that's all it is.

And you know Apple and tradition... they don't care about keeping something around just for tradition.

 

[Fliesen]

Can someone explain why the touchpad is so much bigger? It looks kind of silly. Phil said something dumb at the event like "easier to swipe".




What about the desktops though? Do most people leave them on or let them sleep? I don't reboot my Mac Pro often, but when I do I want to hear that familiar sound.

I've heard variations of the chime sound since I was a kid. It's part of the Mac psyche. Why would they take it away? There's literally no reason for them to do so, except as some shitty branding maneuver to make the Macs like iOS devices. I feel much worse about this than the ports, because this strikes at the heart.

There's certainly gonna be a terminal boolean that'll let you turn the chime on again, just like you can turn on the iOS sound for when you plug in your device to a charger on mac OS.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

It seems like small things but I'm put off by how Apple has seemingly gone into penny-pinching mode by no longer packing in the wall extension cord or cleaning cloth, yet hiking up the prices as much as they did. Little things like that really contributed to the feeling of getting a premium product, or at least the idea that Apple included things to make using the product a little simpler.

Overall the non-Touch Bar Pro seems like a really weird fit in the lineup due to its lower specs and fewer ports, but still significantly more expensive than the Air or rMB. Why do I have to make the trade off on specs just because I want to keep actual F keys? Why remove 2 ports and significantly handicap its extensibility but still call it a Pro? It used to be constant that each Mac model would have the same port configuration, that made it simple. I'm reminded, not in a good way, of Steve Jobs talk of simplifying Apple's product strategy when he came back in 1997. The current laptop lineup feels needlessly messy and like they're trying to have lots of different price points covered but still act like each model is uniquely valuable.

I think they're in the middle of a complete lineup overhaul but rather than doing it all in one go it's happening very gradually, and because we're in the middle of it we are at the point where it kind of seems all over the place.

I think it eventually shakes out that the core m macbooks will drop to $999 or less and will come in 12 and 14. And then you'll just have the the touchbar versions of the MBP. Two in 13 and two in 15. Mac Mini and Mac Pro will probably be killed off and imacs will be simplified.

edit: everyone should give this a listen. Benedict Evans and microsoft's (former?) own Steven Sinofsky discuss "So Where Are We on the ‘S-curve’ for PC Devices?". It's the most spot on analysis minus the fanboyism and absolute whining that ruins these conversations, and really puts everything into perspective. They discuss the pixel/surface lineup/ipad/mac.

 

[Sean]

to be fair, i could do the very same shot on my first gen retina macbook and the macbook air.

The air's screen is just so bad.

edit: there you go:


(of course that doesn't change the fact that the newest display is even more accurate / vibrant than the original retina screen. Still, most of that big difference you're seeing would've already been bridged by the original retina macbook)

Thanks for the comparison, night and day difference and that's not even the newest display. I never realized my Air's screen was this bad haha.

I really want to upgrade and replace my 2012 Air, and probably will, but wasn't hoping to spend quite this much. The new MBP is everything I've wanted but starts at like 500$ more than my old Air. And if I'm gonna be spending that much I'd be tempted to just pay the extra $200 or whatever it is and get the Touch Bar model instead. That's how they get us I guess...

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Some people on Mac Rumors were a bit upset about the GPU in the 15 inch. I actually think it was a good choice. Apple msotly sells this to creatives and people who are casually playing some games here and there. But the core of their audience is Professionals so its best, at least for its customers to put in a GPU that does just that.

Of course its also because Nvidia probably charged higher prices for their Geforce chips and therefore would have raised the prices of the notebook. So kind of a win win for Apple. It makes more sense for MS to go witha geforce gpu as they do have a stake in gaming with Xbox coming to PC.

When i am looking to get a new system, I think I am going to buy a laptop next. I have a gaming PC that I really dont use much for gaming. As I get older, I just dont have the time anymore for more than 1 platform as is. I mostly play on my Xbox, and that even includes 3rd party games because I have more friends on XBL. Plus it be nice to not have something that heats my room up too much and something that draws too much power. As long as I can get my Photo editing, video editing, and web site design done without issue, that will be my next system. I prefer it to be portable and have better energy consumption. The Macbook Pro 15 and the new Surface book with performance are the 2 I am keeping my eye on.

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

Some people on Mac Rumors were a bit upset about the GPU in the 15 inch. I actually think it was a good choice. Apple msotly sells this to creatives and people who are casually playing some games here and there. But the core of their audience is Professionals so its best, at least for its customers to put in a GPU that does just that.

Of course its also because Nvidia probably charged higher prices for their Geforce chips and therefore would have raised the prices of the notebook. So kind of a win win for Apple. It makes more sense for MS to go witha geforce gpu as they do have a stake in gaming with Xbox coming to PC.

When i am looking to get a new system, I think I am going to buy a laptop next. I have a gaming PC that I really dont use much for gaming. As I get older, I just dont have the time anymore for more than 1 platform as is. I mostly play on my Xbox, and that even includes 3rd party games because I have more friends on XBL. Plus it be nice to not have something that heats my room up too much and something that draws too much power. As long as I can get my Photo editing, video editing, and web site design done without issue, that will be my next system. I prefer it to be portable and have better energy consumption. The Macbook Pro 15 and the new Surface book with performance are the 2 I am keeping my eye on.

1.86 Tflops GPU using 35 Watts is pretty good.

What else can Apple go with for dGPU?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Some people on Mac Rumors were a bit upset about the GPU in the 15 inch. I actually think it was a good choice. Apple msotly sells this to creatives and people who are casually playing some games here and there. But the core of their audience is Professionals so its best, at least for its customers to put in a GPU that does just that.

Of course its also because Nvidia probably charged higher prices for their Geforce chips and therefore would have raised the prices of the notebook. So kind of a win win for Apple. It makes more sense for MS to go witha geforce gpu as they do have a stake in gaming with Xbox coming to PC.

When i am looking to get a new system, I think I am going to buy a laptop next. I have a gaming PC that I really dont use much for gaming. As I get older, I just dont have the time anymore for more than 1 platform as is. I mostly play on my Xbox, and that even includes 3rd party games because I have more friends on XBL. Plus it be nice to not have something that heats my room up too much and something that draws too much power. As long as I can get my Photo editing, video editing, and web site design done without issue, that will be my next system. I prefer it to be portable and have better energy consumption. The Macbook Pro 15 and the new Surface book with performance are the 2 I am keeping my eye on.

I'm sort of the same. My main computer has been a desktop that I've built and upgraded once or twice. Not a serious gamer, I use my PS4 for that or whatever handheld/phone. I'm likely going to get a laptop. It was between the MBP and XPS13. I know the MBP will last me way longer and resale value will be way better but the price is hard to swallow. I'll probably do it though. Don't really need a desktop, would rather save space and be more flexible with my setup.

 

[eyeball_kid]

1.86 Tflops GPU using 35 Watts is pretty good.

What else can Apple go with for dGPU?

Yeah, for an Apple laptop GPU the 460 is pretty good. It's certainly way way faster than my aging Radeon 5770 in my Mac Pro. If I can play most modern games at medium settings, I'll be happy.

There's also the possibility of plugging in an external GPU via Thunderbolt. I don't know if macOS supports this though?

 

[SourBear]

This event helped me make a decision I'd been putting off for a while. I'm gonna build a macOS-compatible i7 PC and dual boot.

I've done this before and I've always run into at least one problem with it. Either it didn't recognize the video card and I wouldn't get hardware acceleration, or the audio didn't work, or the wifi didn't work, or it would crash when going to sleep.

This was like 5 years ago now though.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Yeah, for an Apple laptop GPU the 460 is pretty good. It's certainly way way faster than my aging Radeon 5770 in my Mac Pro. If I can play most modern games at medium settings, I'll be happy.

There's also the possibility of plugging in an external GPU via Thunderbolt. I don't know if macOS supports this though?

I actually think they will update the Mac OS to support that. Since VR is becoming a thing and Tim Cook has talked up AR. Pretty sure they will need a good GPU for development.

 

[Fliesen]

Thanks for the comparison, night and day difference and that's not even the newest display. I never realized my Air's screen was this bad haha.

I really want to upgrade and replace my 2012 Air, and probably will, but wasn't hoping to spend quite this much. The new MBP is everything I've wanted but starts at like 500$ more than my old Air. And if I'm gonna be spending that much I'd be tempted to just pay the extra $200 or whatever it is and get the Touch Bar model instead. That's how they get us I guess...

that's exactly why the non touch bar model exists. Create a lower 'starting at' entry price, where upgrading to the fancier / more reasonable model is just within reach.

It's like the 16gb iPhones - for "just 100$ extra" you'd get those much more reasonable 64 gigs, and "what's 100$ anyways considering you'll be using that device for 2 years".