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"Hello Again" Apple holding mac-centric media event October 27th 10am PST
- Thread starter Dany
- Start date
- Status
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/macbook-pro-tb3-reduced-pci-express-bandwidth/
"According to the document, while all of the ports on the 15-inch MacBook Pro and the 13-inch MacBook Pro without a Touch Bar offer full Thunderbolt 3 performance, only two of the four ports on the 13-inch MacBook Pro with a Touch Bar support Thunderbolt 3 at full performance."
"According to the document, while all of the ports on the 15-inch MacBook Pro and the 13-inch MacBook Pro without a Touch Bar offer full Thunderbolt 3 performance, only two of the four ports on the 13-inch MacBook Pro with a Touch Bar support Thunderbolt 3 at full performance."
8GB will easily be fine for another 4 years of casual use. even today it's still enough for gaming
Angelus Errare
Banned
You're probably going to have to remortgage your home since Apple doesn't use standard M.2 pinned SSDs.
Like a 1TB replacement drive is $600.
Zeyphersan
Banned
For the first year finding the right cables for USB-C/Thunderbolt is going to be horrid. Some have different data rates, some have different power pass through. It's nice because they all have the same shape but externally it means there's no differentiator between a 100W/USB2 cable and a 60W/USB3.1 cable
eyeball_kid
Member
My current plan is to buy a Thunderbolt 3 hub (like the Belkin one that was just announced) that has a majority of the ports I need, and then use Apple adapters for anything else. I'll pay a bit more for peace of mind, at least until the USB-C market gets more mature.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I find it a little concerning that people are conflating USB-C and thunderbolt 3. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if people end up buying a USB 3.1 type C hub and expect thunderbolt 3 speed.
Also:
No matter how I look at the new MBPs I just can't justify the price. They'd have to increase the performance by quite a bit before it becomes viable.
At this point I'm not entirely sure who their target consumers are.
Also:
No matter how I look at the new MBPs I just can't justify the price. They'd have to increase the performance by quite a bit before it becomes viable.
At this point I'm not entirely sure who their target consumers are.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
dp
Zeyphersan
Banned
I know the difference. I also know that not all USB-C cables offer the same power and data throughput and not all Thunderbolt 3 cables do either. That's going to lead to a lot of confused purchasers
Apple's website right now offers multiple USB-C cables with the connector on both ends, but with different power and data amounts. One is 100W and USB2 (the "charging cable") and one is 60W and USB3.1 (the Belkin one). The Thunderbolt 3 cable they list is rated for 40Gbps and 60W of power, despite that new LG monitor coming with a Thunderbolt cable that can do 40Gbps and minimum 85W
It's madness
formasymphonic
Member
We're gonna end up needing to make TB3, USB-C, USB 3.1 OT with definitive info recommending cables and docks etc at this rate.
(...either that or copy whatever they end up recommending on The Wirecutter)
(...either that or copy whatever they end up recommending on The Wirecutter)
Ugh. So they went all out to make this 'one connector to rule them all' and all the cables have random power and data throughputs and half the connectors on one of the new MBPs don't have full throughput anyway.
Source? Is this like the MacBook where the screen is 2304-by-1440 (1152x720) but Apple sets the default/demo at a scaled 1280x800?
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Weird. Just increase the dang resolution, Apple!
UnluckyKate
Member
Did they renew the desktop macs as well?
Chittagong
Gold Member
No, I expect Mac Mini and Mac Pro go the way of Cinema Display, and iMac get updated begrudgingly like MacBoom Air has been.
Apple really doesn't care anymore. Makes me sad, because I would love a cutting edge Pro and Cinema Display on my desk, and a Mini in the meeting room
Zeyphersan
Banned
I expect it'll get sorted out in a year or two when we can (hopefully) see USB-C connectors with 10Gbps throughout and 100W power and Thunderbolt 3 cables with 40Gbps and 100W of power. But until then, yeah
I mean the adapters that Apple uses for HDMI and VGA (those multiport ones) only pass through 60W, so even if you plug a 100W cable into them it doesn't matter
Obviously this only affects the 15" MBP since the 13" only pulls 60W anyway, but it's still annoying. You'll have to remember which cable is your "charging" one and which is your "data" one
I was expecting a bit more from apple.
We have from Microsoft
-Surface book
-Surface pro
-Surface Studio
All seem to be pretty innovative and starting to catch my interest. These are the very products I expected from apple. We just got an oled strip from apple, after a 2 year wait. Whats going on?
We have from Microsoft
-Surface book
-Surface pro
-Surface Studio
All seem to be pretty innovative and starting to catch my interest. These are the very products I expected from apple. We just got an oled strip from apple, after a 2 year wait. Whats going on?
Rocky Raccoon
Banned
Base MacBook Pro 2016's Graphics, Radeon Pro 450, has better performance than AMD M370X.
i7-6700HQ is better than the 2015 2.5g processor
There's a lot of improvements on this year's MacBook Pro
I wish I had cash. I found a used 2015 2.5 ghz (dual flu) for 1700 locally and would have grabbed if if I did.
Edit: I would not get it for for 2300$ IMO a good used or refurb price I would consider.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
You got a much much better display, an all new much thinner design, better specs, OLED toolbar that is a bit more significant a feature than you're post says, touch ID, a much bigger trackpad, better speakers, etc... My question would be...what were you expecting? Touchscreen was never in the cards and I'm not sure what else you could possibly want.
I actually agree with tom warren:
Lets get it over with. Sometimes you gotta drag people kicking and screaming.
I have that only with 8gb ram. It's great, does everything I need it to do. It's about $600 more for a base model 2016 w/ touch.
eyeball_kid
Member
I don't know your setup or use cases, but I don't see this being a big deal in practice since the MBP will automatically charge from the highest-wattage connection.
I actually agree with tom warren:
Lets get it over with. Sometimes you gotta drag people kicking and screaming.
i also agree with this mostly.
If you don't want to live the "early adopter dongle life" - don't get the newest Macbook pro.
But this is going to be a laptop you'll still be using in 2020, and by then you'll be happy that EVERY PORT on your machine will accept ANY device, be it external storage, display devices, audio equipment, a battery bank.
My current macbook has 2 USB 3.0 ports - say i wanna edit video, plug in an external hard drive, a mouse and a USB microphone, i'll need a hub.
A year from now, you'll be able to do all of this while also powering the machine from a USB-C power bank.
Don't underestimate the versatility of a high amount of USB-C.
At least they didn't skimp out on number of ports, like they did with the Macbook (12").
Zeyphersan
Banned
Of course, but it's not really the one cable solution in that case. I have to make sure the dock or monitor that I buy and the cable I use are all rated appropriately, and at the moment I can't find a USB-C cable that is both 10Gbps and 100W. So if I find a nice dock I choose either lower transfer speeds than the max or lower charging speed than what my system was designed for. Or I plug in two cables, which isn't a giant hassle don't get me wrong, but it's not the solution that was promised.
I'm also just doing all this searching to plan any future purchases. And I'm just passing along the Wild West type of arena this feels like at the moment
Edit: article detailing EXACTLY what I'm taking about:
http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/
jts
...hate me...
It's actually all sorts of bizarre that the Surface Studio, a "bleeding edge" starting at $3K computer that ships only in 2017, doesn't have any USB-C/TB3 port. Talk about backwards. But best not question tech's rediscovered darling (or the virtues of posing as the new little underdog that could).You got a much much better display, an all new much thinner design, better specs, OLED toolbar that is a bit more significant a feature than you're post says, touch ID, a much bigger trackpad, better speakers, etc... My question would be...what were you expecting? Touchscreen was never in the cards and I'm not sure what else you could possibly want.
I actually agree with tom warren:
Lets get it over with. Sometimes you gotta drag people kicking and screaming.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I still think the lack of MagSafe is a fair complaint tho. They couldn't design one?
We're in an awkward transition period. USB-C is going to be the standard in about 5 years, but right now it's basically only just being heard of by the mainstream. Apple I suppose can be commended for leading the charge, but they can put out fucking anything and people will buy it in droves.
Yeah this really does suck and makes me fear for my future laptop's life. The magsafe has saved my current MBP at least half a dozen times.
eyeball_kid
Member
The Belkin hub does 85W/40Gbps, so that's what I'll probably get if the price isn't too crazy. http://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F4U095/
i'm sad it's gone, but i'm also happy because - say i'm on the go and i don't need to plug in my laptop anyways, or i wanna plug it into the same battery bank i use for my phone. - that's really neat.
The fact that, should i not have the desire to charge my machine, the charging port can serve as a connector for all kinds of external devices (from display devices to mouse / keyboard / storage / networking) is really neat.
Also, the fact that you can have the power cord plug in on either side.
i think they're fine with third party bringing that feature back for those who desire to have that option
LostMyNarbles
Member
Lets be real if Apple wanted to get everybody to adopt USB-C faster they would have dropped the Lightning port and switched the iPhone over to USB-C. The fact that they didn't and decided to chase the lightning cash instead is fine, but that shows they are not committed to pushing it. I'd rather Microsoft kept legacy ports for now instead of dropping it all.
Oh neat, didn't know it was possible via third party like that.
I think they were bullish since it's only been 4 years on lightning, but TBH they should just say fuck it and go USB-C on the next iPhone. Just rip the band aid off and get it done, it'll be the standard for 10 years.
well, it goes on sale in mid december, right? that's like, almost 2017.
Most of its sales are definitely going to happen in 2017, one would assume
that wouldn't have changed the current situation, though.
The iPhone can't connect to the macbook because of the USB-C that connects to the wall plug.
Even if the iPhone had a USB-C on the bottom, the charger still wouldn't be able to connect to the macbook pro because it's USB-A on the side that goes into the device where the power comes from.
Respectively, even if they stuck with lightning, they could just ship a cable / wall wart that replaces the USB-A plug (on the cable) and USB-A port (on the wall plug).
Adding USB-C to the iPhone would have not removed any of the current connectivity issues apart from:
* people being able to use the same pair of wired(!) headphones sans adapter on their macbook pro (2016) and their (hypothetical USB-C) iPhone 7 (or with the same adapter at least, because i'm not sure there will be many USB-C headphones
* people being able to use the same adapter they use to go from USB-C -> HDMI on their macbook and their phone
USB-C still needs a dongle to do many things (output to a TV or projector, connect most external audio devices like DACs, midi controllers and microphones), you'd just have the same dongles for your mobile device as well as your laptop, i guess.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Yeah, and there's some in here who still don't know the difference. I knew way back when they announced the USB-C connector was going to be used for thunderbolt that there would be a lot of confusion, and that's not even counting the gen1 nonsense.
Case in point.
You simply can't just buy a USB-C cable and expect thunderbolt capability. It doesn't work like that.
well, it goes on sale in mid december, right? that's like, almost 2017.
Most of its sales are definitely going to happen in 2017, one would assume
Almost 2017 is still 2016.
Looks like the first patch for this holiday is already sold out though.
jts
...hate me...
Whatever they ship out in the last 2 weeks of 2016 is a limited quantity that is not available for ordering anymore, but have it.
well, it goes on sale in mid december, right? that's like, almost 2017.
Most of its sales are definitely going to happen in 2017, one would assume
that wouldn't have changed the current situation, though.
The iPhone can't connect to the macbook because of the USB-C that connects to the wall plug.
Even if the iPhone had a USB-C on the bottom, the charger still wouldn't be able to connect to the macbook pro because it's USB-A on the side that goes into the device where the power comes from.
Respectively, even if they stuck with lightning, they could just ship a cable / wall wart that replaces the USB-A plug (on the cable) and USB-A port (on the wall plug).
Adding USB-C to the iPhone would have not removed any of the current connectivity issues apart from:
* people being able to use the same pair of wired(!) headphones sans adapter on their macbook pro (2016) and their (hypothetical USB-C) iPhone 7 (or with the same adapter at least, because i'm not sure there will be many USB-C headphones
* people being able to use the same adapter they use to go from USB-C -> HDMI on their macbook and their phone
USB-C still needs a dongle to do many things (output to a TV or projector, connect most external audio devices like DACs, midi controllers and microphones), you'd just have the same dongles for your mobile device as well as your laptop, i guess.
Couldn't they just package a USB-C to USB-C cable with the USB-A cable? Or a USB-C dongle? It's a fucking nightmare right now because USB-A is so ubiquitous, but the transition has to happen somehow.
If they package an extra cable or an extra dongle, it wouldn't make it any less of a dongle-nightmare. There'd still be a dongle - but it would be them who had to pay for it.
Adding a dongle to every single box of the device you're selling hundreds of millions of just to accomodate those who also purchase a device you'll likely be selling sub 1 million of - that's simply not reasonable. (let alone the fact that you'd be manufacturing dongles and cables that 95% of users would never use. So add the ecological factor, too)
i prefer a transition like this over weird compromises. At least you know what you're in for when you purchase one of the new devices. - and the situation's gonna improve on a weekly bases, with new releases of USB-accessories.
Inversely, if you buy a machine right now that sports 50% or more 'legacy' ports - sure, you're fine now, but a few years from now, you'd wish many of those - then deprecated - ports would have been USB-C to begin with.
Pick your poison. Having an all USB-C machine is definitely more 'forward-thinking' than one that sports mainly USB-A, albeit more inconvenient at this point in time. Some simply don't mind that inconvenience, or feel it's being compensated by the other merits of the new device.
Call Apple out on whatever you want, but with the Macbook Pro - at least from a connector side - they didn't just remove people's options (like they did with the headphone port, or the one-port-only on the 12" macbook), they put in 4 of the most versatile, most future proof, most future STANDARD(!) connectors. More than any other manufacturer, i would guess.
"lol, a PRO device with no SD card reader?" is like ballmer saying "LOL a smartphone without a physical keyboard?". I'd call them out for NOT going all-in with USB-C!
as if a pro cares about a shitty 20$ dongle they need to carry around - especially photographers. Have you ever looked into a pro photographers bag? tell me they'd find no room in that bottomless bag of theirs for a shitty little SD card reader.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
If the end piece wasn't so wide, I'd have one permanently installed in my MBP if I had one.i think they're fine with third party bringing that feature back for those who desire to have that option
I mean it's not like they can't make them. Just look at the MagBolt. Does the part connected to the computer have electronics in it? Is there a reason it needs to stick out that far? Make it smaller! Also make it come out at a 90º angle so I can have to run out to the back.
You got a much much better display, an all new much thinner design, better specs, OLED toolbar that is a bit more significant a feature than you're post says, touch ID, a much bigger trackpad, better speakers, etc... My question would be...what were you expecting? Touchscreen was never in the cards and I'm not sure what else you could possibly want.
I actually agree with tom warren:
Lets get it over with. Sometimes you gotta drag people kicking and screaming.
But the laptop is thin enough as it was. And the battery is still significantly better on the surface book . Theres touch ID, but there also facial Id on surface.
I'm not sure what I was expecting. I just want a bit of a change up. All those surface products change things up significantly for the average user. That was what Apple was all about.
Can someone please explain this thinking to me? What USB-C accessories would exist for the iPhone if it were to have USB-C? Battery Banks can easily use the Lightning to USB-C cable you would need for your computer, so that's not a problem.
I've never used my iPhones Lightning port for anything other than charging, and while I know there are some Lightning accessories, I think the people who use them are very few, certainly not enough to drive the creation of USB-C computer peripherals, unless we are talking about wanting a whole bunch of USB-C headphones.
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