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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK

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All you guys want to do debate my subjective choice over my favourite move in the game and not answer the most pertinent part of the post that spawned this discussion.

Can I still get my HotS mount if I'm only going to be hitting 100 soon in WoW?
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Can you eventually outrun Pheonix or is it basically a time bomb that you prepare for?
 
From what I've seen those are permanent or at least decently long term perks. It's still available now at any rate.

Cool beans. I should be able to get it by this weekend then.

Can you eventually outrun Pheonix or is it basically a time bomb that you prepare for?

Phoenix is a fixed non-targetable AoE. Pyroblast is a targeted projectile that can only be dodged by blink (Zera), Bolt of the Storm and Ice Block.
 

Savitar

Member
Phoenix is a fixed non-targetable AoE. Pyroblast is a targeted projectile that can only be dodged by blink (Zera), Bolt of the Storm and Ice Block.

Phoenix IS transferable if you get an ability later on that allows you to re place its location.

It's damn handy to have.

Nothing like tossing it down, having some run away then transfer it right on top of them.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Doesn't he just E?

If the Illidan I'm facing has the presence of mind to not only take note of my Pyroblast, but also save his E for it, I might as well leave the game at that point because I'm not winning the damn thing.
 
Kael'thas' Pyroblast. For a couple of reasons, he always has pretty baller lines when he starts to channel it. In 99% of the time you cast it, the other hero is dead. They can try to run but unless they've got ice block or know the right time to blink, they're just dead. I like to turn my back and just walk away as they explode. I liked Pyroblast so much I rolled my first mage in WoW. Pyroblast is nowhere near as cool in WoW as it is in HotS.

Pyro is more like an instant cast proc than actually casting the spell itself

99% of the time I see it cast it doesn't kill anyone, and often ends up killing Kael. It's so bad compared to Phoenix currently I think... :(

I use it a lot against specialist and Illidan, screw illidan
 
Phoenix IS transferable if you get an ability later on that allows you to re place its location.

It's damn handy to have.

Nothing like tossing it down, having some run away then transfer it right on top of them.

Yes, you can re-target the cast area of Phoenix...with the level 20 talent.

I'm not saying Phoenix is useless, I'm not saying it's terrible or anything like that. I am saying it--just like Pyroblast--is situationally useful based on the map and enemy team comp.

Pyro is more like an instant cast proc than actually casting the spell itself

My mage being mid 40's probably doesn't help.
 

Durden77

Member
Whoa...just started playing this game today and in my second real match we made a comeback with 3% core health left. Shit was hype, was a close game all around. Really like this game. Just sticking with Reynor right now but he rocks. Hope he doesn't end up sucking in the long term.
 

Savitar

Member
Yes, you can re-target the cast area of Phoenix...with the level 20 talent.

I'm not saying Phoenix is useless, I'm not saying it's terrible or anything like that. I am saying it--just like Pyroblast--is situationally useful based on the map and enemy team comp.

I've always gone for Phoenix myself, it's damn useful to picking off stranglers and basically covering anything like tribute etc. Plus toss it at someone or in front of their path and they scatter. It really causes the enemy to go nutty at times.

Whoa...just started playing this game today and in my second real match we made a comeback with 3% core health left. Shit was hype, was a close game all around. Really like this game. Just sticking with Reynor right now but he rocks. Hope he doesn't end up sucking in the long term.

That's the god thing, it's never over until it's over. You can come back. It's possible. It's why I hate it when someone gets all debbie downer and basically say that it's done and over with. I hate that.
 

Alur

Member
I saw a murky tonight played by someone called ilikecuddles

Seemed right.

I feel simultaneously happy and sad at all the Murky's I've seen this week. Some of it was chalked up to the bug, but most is due to the 7k sale.

All these wonderful people getting to experience the joys of the Sea God right as Blizzard inadvertently hard countered his (by far) best heroic by giving every healer Cleanse. Granted it doesn't affect lower levels of play much or at all, but the farther up you go the more hit and miss it becomes...though according to hotdogs/Kirblar's post:

Jaina's taken over the top spot on HotsLogs, to absolutely no one's surprise. The surprising thing? Nazeebo is #2.

Murky still has the 3rd highest winrate and is at 57.2% in Diamond and 61% in Master.

The Nazeebo thing is interesting. I feel like people got used to not seeing him and kind of forgot that he does deal a ton of damage...even if it is spread out among everything in creation. I've definitely felt like I land a lot more zombie walls since I tried him post patch as people have kind of forgotten the timing or something. And he still absolutely wrecks at low MMR if that's the hero the player is good at. No wall avoidance whatsoever.

I've always gone for Phoenix myself, it's damn useful to picking off stranglers and basically covering anything like tribute etc. Plus toss it at someone or in front of their path and they scatter. It really causes the enemy to go nutty at times..

If you're wanting to zone a tribute or objective then Phoenix is the way to go. They all stand in it and take free damage (on a 40 second cooldown no less) or they have to back out. There's so much windup on Pyroblast it just doesn't compare in the utility and it's not very often you see it hit more than the person intended and possibly one other.

Plus if you drop Phoenix and whoever is in it dies it doesn't cancel and go on cooldown. Pyroblast is canceled so much by the target dying/evading it's kind of comical. It definitely has it's place but there are far less times I'd rather have it over Phoenix due to immobility it causes.
 

Alur

Member
So Tempo Storm yet again stomps C9 Maelstrom. Damn.

They even pulled out some sick ass Tyrande/Butcher play in the final game. Had a 4 level lead.

RIP Milly79. Your dream is dead. Embrace the salt.
 

Durden77

Member
That's the god thing, it's never over until it's over. You can come back. It's possible. It's why I hate it when someone gets all debbie downer and basically say that it's done and over with. I hate that.

Well I think that's because of other people's experience with other MOBAs. Specifically LoL. In LoL you definitely can get to a point of no return and it just feels kind of pointless to even try. This game however seems like it has the potential to have a more dynamic back and forth.

All we had to do was not let anyone through to touch the core, fight better than them and wipe out most of them, and get our immortal to win while they were dead, and our "hopeless" game turned into a victory.
 

tylerf

Member
Finally jumped into Hero League and it's been pretty fun since you (usually) get a proper team comp instead of the crazy stuff thrown at you in QM. Not sure how I feel about the system of instant gratification with seeing your rank go up versus the slow burn of the league rankings in SC2.
 

Zafir

Member
Finally jumped into Hero League and it's been pretty fun since you (usually) get a proper team comp instead of the crazy stuff thrown at you in QM. Not sure how I feel about the system of instant gratification with seeing your rank go up versus the slow burn of the league rankings in SC2.

That's only because you're in the "placement period". Once you hit around 100 matches or so in HL you don't go up ranks anywhere near as quick.

That said the system has its flaws. A few patches back they increased the amount of skill points you get during the said "placement period", which some people on reddit were complaining newer people are flying through the ranks much quicker than they should be. I unfortunately got out of the placement period before the patch so I can't really verify that information myself.

Once you're out of that period you need to win multiple games in a row to climb, as you lose the same amount as you gain. In that respect, your best bet climbing is probably in a group.

That all said, they're overhauling it for Season 1. It's apparently going to have an actual placement period in the new system, where you don't get a rank until you complete a certain amount of matches.
 

Spl1nter

Member
So Tempo Storm yet again stomps C9 Maelstrom. Damn.

They even pulled out some sick ass Tyrande/Butcher play in the final game. Had a 4 level lead.

RIP Milly79. Your dream is dead. Embrace the salt.

T/S is too far ahead NA, it is not even close. They have a huge advantage being the only professional team with a team house.
 

Spl1nter

Member
Well...Stellar Lotus has one too. Hasn't done much for them. :D

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I dont think even all of the C9 Mal players are full time.
 

kirblar

Member
I need to fight through my ADHD and make the big "Blizz, you've turned the game into whoever ganks the most gets to snowball and win" post this week. New map and Tomb just highlight the issue.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
TFW you're playing as abathur and somebody actually praises your hat T_T
 

Zafir

Member
You say this like it's a bad thing...?

Well, I think the game should have some way of coming back if the team who is behind deserves it. IE they consistently outplay their opponents in the late game. It shouldn't be easy of course, as the early game would mean nothing otherwise.

That all said, I think that's kind of how it is at the moment. You can still come back with smart play, but it isn't easy.
 

Celegus

Member
Johanna's first alt skin is so good, they're clearly turning her into a Sister of Battle (Warhammer 40k). Which makes my favorite hero even cooler.
 

subwilde

Member
Multiple games tonight where the teams are so mismatched. One game for example was tyrande, bw, muradin, kael, gaz on our team vs Johanna, jaina, zeratul, falstad, and reghar...lol
 

kirblar

Member
"Why the Sylvanas Patch EXP changes really hurt the game"

The game has become much more snowbally, and it's to the detriment of the game.. Many games prior to this patch felt like basketball games going down to the last minute. But today, on both the casual and pro level, we're seeing so many more games just be one way stomps that are far less fun. The Sylvanas patch EXP changes are what I think are the main culprit - this is why.
Yeah, the lanes are there, and they have their importance, but the game is always going to be about the team brawl.
That's not what is going on here though - it's that early kills are a literal 1/4 of an EXP bar starting about level 4. It means getting a kill on someone is huge now in the early game- this did not used to be the case. Previously, the big loss in EXP came from the loss of soak and potential tower push. If you had a bad player on your team feeding - it sucked, but you could handle it if you sent someone to the other lane. Now? They actively start punishing your team for bad players feeding, starting very early on. This is really not healthy for the game because it's exacerbating the "you're only as strong as your weakest link" issue that plagues the game.

What it does is make it so that the best thing you can be doing on many maps is ganking the other team repeatedly, building a ~2 level lead, then riding that 2 level lead, because there isn't enough of a multiplier in place for the losing team, should they pick off members of the winning team. If you die to a team 2-3 levels behind, you should be punished for it. Notice how after a team wipe in the late game, the team behind is often still WAY far behind the other team. That massive relative value to those early ganks builds in these enormous cushions that can sustain a lead even through that sort of thing.

This is being exacerbated by another change made in the Sylvanas patch- they lengthened the time you spend 1=10, and lessened the time you spend 10-20. This means that if you get a 2 level lead from 6-8 ganks early on, you are going to have ults while your opponents do not for a much longer period of time than before. You can see this issue on TSQ, where they have intentionally decreased the amount of experience minion waves give, and a 8-10 difference quickly turns into 9.12.

This leads to the big issue in how this affects the "Team Brawler" game on many maps- the map objectives are now becoming secondary in importance to the gank cushion. Tomb is the obvious offender- but Battlefield of Eternity is the biggest. The map objective takes forever to kill. Splt pushing doesn't work well because the map is gigantic and you'll get murdered for it - only Abathur can get away with it. A few in chat were complaining that they can't figure out how to approach the map. I've won almost all of my recent games featuring competent players, with the exception of one, and the solution is simple- abuse the EXP now given for ganking.
The immortals have no HP. Losing early ones is not a big deal- you won't lose many structures, and when ganks give you as much EXP as a tower kill, you can afford the trade off when you burn it down by intentionally sacrificing your early ones.

Instead of fighting for your immortal early- do the opposite. Wait for them to come to your turf, filled with all sorts of ground hazards, then murder them when they're on top of it and caught off guard. When they rez? Do it again. Make sure not to die, and to keep your mana up- you don't need to go crazy, you just need to make the easy picks.

This will net you an EXP lead. They'll get the first 1-2 immortals since you won't have time to kill yours after they die unless you've got Gaz putting down turrets. That's ok, they have no HP and are easily dispatched. Then, you'll get that EXP lead- and because soaking is so difficult on this map, it will be very hard for them to recover.
\
Post-10, you'll start being able to put damage on yours after you blow them up. When you do, split push, precisely because of the tp HP. You'll get more EXP,and you'll avoid a fight you don't want - the only way to lose is to repeatedly get killed by them.
This is what I think the optimal strat is for this map.

This is a very unhealthy for the game. The objective is largely irrelevant. The thing the game is telling players is important, is not actually important. The thing that makes this game special and distinct from other entries in the genre is becoming de-emphasized. In this strategy, the opposing team will win the immortal, think they're doing a good job, but really be far behind despite winning it. A similar issue arises in Haunted Mines- a team can get more skulls, have a huge golem, but if they get wiped as they're finishing the boss, the other team instantly gets a full level in EXP, negating most of the work that went into the objective.

These issues really need to be addressed. I get what they were, in theory, trying to do with extending the 1-10 time, but I feel it really worked against what you really want to be doing in the game in a number of ways. I'm not in a position to test this stuff to see its impact, but I think these things are worth trying-

Possible things to do to help-

1) De-emphasize kill EXP pre-10, re-emphasize PvE EXP at these levels. Make it so the important part of a kill is the denied soak, not the actual death. This allows teams to try and cover by using good rotations. It also re-emphasizes the importance of getting those towers down on your opponent's side.

2) Put some sort of accellerant in place when the first team hits 10 that tries to pull both teams upward at the same rate to reduce the time when one team has ults and the other doesn't.

3) Make the exp bonus bigger for kills from more than a level behind. There's already a modifier, but it doesn't seem big enough to account for the big advantage in stats the team ahead has. If you're out of position and get ganked at level 15 and they're level 12, you should be punished by more than a 30% EXP bonus for the kill.

In conclusion- this isn't out of hate or complaining, I just want to be having way more of the down to the buzzer games I had back in beta. Those are the sort of games that make things special - that feeling that everything's on a razor's edge, and one bad call late can blow up your game and lead to "6.5/10, no comeback mechanics!" spam in the chat. The current snowball setup is bad for players, bad for viewers, and ultimately, bad for the game's future. Here's hoping for a better one.
 
I still dont know how to kill heroes with Murky, he is an amazing annoying little imp for siege damage

My Murky build:

1: Block. Stay alive longer
4: Living The Dream. The longer you live, the cooler you become.
7: Slime Advantage. Bonus Damage!
10: Octograb. The only choice, really.
13: Continuous Slime. More slime, more damage!
16: Blood for Blood. I used to finish fights with this, now I either start fights with it, or help an assassin take down someone with it.
20: ...And a Shark Too! Essential for destroying the souls of other players.

Once you hit 10, you can use Octograb to hold an enemy down so your assassins can nuke it. You can even pull Valla out of her Strafe with it! When you're 20, your killer combo is gonna be W, Q, then R. If your enemy doesn't try to run away after the W and Q, you can Auto Attack, hit Q again, then R. Squishy heroes will go down quickly, and I've taken out an Anub who had around 80% health on my own with the combo.
 

kirblar

Member
ZPs just accidentally discovered that Lunar Shower does absurd damage to the stationary Immortal. (It does need Full Moonfire to avoid OOMing though.) Seems great for the map. edit: It's also doing real damage on heroes.
 

Maledict

Member
ZPs just accidentally discovered that Lunar Shower does absurd damage to the stationary Immortal. (It does need Full Moonfire to avoid OOMing though.) Seems great for the map. edit: It's also doing real damage on heroes.

Oh for heavens sake. I had been trailing this exact build with Malf because you don't actually lose that much doing it, and now everyone will run it! :-(

Did he take the extra damage to minions and mercs at tier 1? Am torn between that and the mana reduction on re growth...
 

Alur

Member
After rewatching the final game of the Team Liquid Super Brawl as well as a couple of plays davemo made in our group and I've seen on streams...odds on whether or not The Butcher gets the Stitches treatment and has Bolt of the Storm removed?

Granted he'll have no escape whatsoever if that came to pass...but damn if it isn't ridiculous when used with Furnace Blast.
 

Maximus.

Member
I've always gone for Phoenix myself, it's damn useful to picking off stranglers and basically covering anything like tribute etc. Plus toss it at someone or in front of their path and they scatter. It really causes the enemy to go nutty at times.



That's the god thing, it's never over until it's over. You can come back. It's possible. It's why I hate it when someone gets all debbie downer and basically say that it's done and over with. I hate that.

I had a team quit because we lost the first team battle 5 mins in. Just let the other team destroy the core because we lost one battle early. Was shocked, but didn't care because people were just talking shit anyways.
 

kirblar

Member
Oh for heavens sake. I had been trailing this exact build with Malf because you don't actually lose that much doing it, and now everyone will run it! :-(

Did he take the extra damage to minions and mercs at tier 1? Am torn between that and the mana reduction on re growth...
Yeah, but on Battlefield, that ability's near-worthless.

Bolt on Melee characters seems pretty dumb in general.
 

Maledict

Member
No, no, the L1 minion talent. It has merit on other maps where you need to battle in a lane. This map doesn't have that. Drone is actually the pickup you want.

Ah cool. That makes sense. I was wondering whether the damage bonus kicked in on the immortals or not.

I do love scouting drone on that map and Tomb. So handy for the gank squads...
 
I think the secret to winning Quick Match is picking Raynor. Because if you pick Raynor, you can't be grouped with any of the 50,000 brand new players who all play Raynor because it's in the tutorial and die to towers constantly.
 

Durden77

Member
I think the secret to winning Quick Match is picking Raynor. Because if you pick Raynor, you can't be grouped with any of the 50,000 brand new players who all play Raynor because it's in the tutorial and die to towers constantly.

Lol I started playing today and I'm only using Raynor. I'm definitely better than that though, but yeah my team matching hasn't been too bad haha.
 
Cool, it looks like I was in-game during the quest reset and I got credit for the quest even though the match started before I got the quest.
 
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