Everything about him is. This is the first time I've actually been excited about a new hero
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
- Status
Everything about him is. This is the first time I've actually been excited about a new hero
BreezyLimbo
Banned
thats how I felt earlier today
Leorics who kept staying and spawning in the enemy base dying over and over again
jaundicejuice
Member
The double Murky is stronk. Played against a Murky/Leoric combo that just yolo pushed a lane, they fed a fair bit but had our top lane pushed hard.
jaundicejuice
Member
Blizzard's design largely defines the support role as someone who heals as evidenced by every support in the game having a direct heal with the exception of Tassadar, who can skill into a heal-over-time through his shield and choose a healing ward. Which is something many people complain about and why he's usually picked as an off-support. If he's picked at all.
So what are you asking for? How would more supports shake anything up? More burst heals? And if these hypothetical supports didn't have burst heals, given how the meta gravitates towards the strongest healers, how would adding supports without strong burst heals get chosen over the likes of Rehgar and Uther? And if they are strong burst healers, what's the difference?
Right now it feels like Blizzard is painting themselves into a corner with their hero design and talent balancing. Even if they do add more supports that are assassin/support hybrids like Tassadar and Tyrande or make some specialist/support hybrids like Abathur...why would the community choose those heroes over strong burst heals and strong CC?
The only thing I could see shaking things up is them removing mirror match-ups from all modes once they have enough heroes. But even then the high level meta will always gravitate to a limited pool of heroes.
So what are you asking for? How would more supports shake anything up? More burst heals? And if these hypothetical supports didn't have burst heals, given how the meta gravitates towards the strongest healers, how would adding supports without strong burst heals get chosen over the likes of Rehgar and Uther? And if they are strong burst healers, what's the difference?
Right now it feels like Blizzard is painting themselves into a corner with their hero design and talent balancing. Even if they do add more supports that are assassin/support hybrids like Tassadar and Tyrande or make some specialist/support hybrids like Abathur...why would the community choose those heroes over strong burst heals and strong CC?
The only thing I could see shaking things up is them removing mirror match-ups from all modes once they have enough heroes. But even then the high level meta will always gravitate to a limited pool of heroes.
By having the meta shift so that burst heals aren't the number 1 necessary thing? And even just for variety, adding one of each type of support (burst, over time, off) would make people happy and possibly create new ideal comps for those supports. You can create more like Li Li that aren't only in one category and between two points on the spectrum. Monk might be there too. Even Brughtwing now feels like an off-support but of the defensive type, which is something I'd have expected of Tassadar with Force Wall.
It's like, we have Jaina and Kael, two different mages that can apply heavy AoE burst damage, the mages of the game. But isn't Nova essentially a single target mage? Would you say that there is a lack of design space for more mages even if we have two ranged AoE spell casters?
It feels like people who don't like the current direction just don't like healers period, or don't like that the game requires them. Even if it's just another character that eventually presses Q on a teammate to heal, it doesn't change the fact that we have a bunch of heroes currently that right click an enemy to do most of their damage. And just adding more supports increases the likelyhood of finding more points on the spectrum people might like. And even if a new support comes out that isn't strictly better than Uther or Rehgar or whichever type of support the meta calls for the most at the moment, as long as they're serviceable enough to win games even at the top level (thank you, Li Li) when necessary, then we'll be a-okay.
I for one like having the three support types in this game. I like having the option for double warrior and double support, rather than just triple assassin every single game. I'm glad that we're seeing specialists in more and more games because of their pushing power or damage specialty. New heroes will come out, buffs and nerfs will happen, and the meta will change again. Just wait.
Edit: Besides, it's the Assassins, specifically the mages, that control the meta. They're what caused double warrior to happen and the need for burst heals way over everything else.
It's like, we have Jaina and Kael, two different mages that can apply heavy AoE burst damage, the mages of the game. But isn't Nova essentially a single target mage? Would you say that there is a lack of design space for more mages even if we have two ranged AoE spell casters?
It feels like people who don't like the current direction just don't like healers period, or don't like that the game requires them. Even if it's just another character that eventually presses Q on a teammate to heal, it doesn't change the fact that we have a bunch of heroes currently that right click an enemy to do most of their damage. And just adding more supports increases the likelyhood of finding more points on the spectrum people might like. And even if a new support comes out that isn't strictly better than Uther or Rehgar or whichever type of support the meta calls for the most at the moment, as long as they're serviceable enough to win games even at the top level (thank you, Li Li) when necessary, then we'll be a-okay.
I for one like having the three support types in this game. I like having the option for double warrior and double support, rather than just triple assassin every single game. I'm glad that we're seeing specialists in more and more games because of their pushing power or damage specialty. New heroes will come out, buffs and nerfs will happen, and the meta will change again. Just wait.
Edit: Besides, it's the Assassins, specifically the mages, that control the meta. They're what caused double warrior to happen and the need for burst heals way over everything else.
Well, looks like Kael'Thas is losing his Ignite talent:
https://twitter.com/followgrubby/status/629569407484887040
https://twitter.com/followgrubby/status/629569407484887040
jaundicejuice
Member
I'm all for having more supports but my point is the design for the role is fairly limited in HotS and the things that could provide variety for the role aren't necessarily what the community gravitates towards or what Blizzard seems inclined to design at this point.
Kael's a one trick pony that takes hitting level 16 to become truly dominant. Jaina is a more persistent threat throughout but both already have so many counters. There are so many heroes in the game that can either close the gap on them (The Butcher, Muradin, Illidan, Leoric, Zeratul, Sonya), put them horribly out of position (Johanna, Murdain, Stitches, Loeric) or can completely eliminate the safety of their positioning (Nova, Zeratul).
Give it a few more patches, some new OP assassins will come out, Kael will get some nerf like having Flamethrower and Ignite on the same talent tier and everyone will be bitching about the new problem while Kael'thas languishes with Illidan and Thrall.
Edit: Or ^^ that will happen.
Kael's a one trick pony that takes hitting level 16 to become truly dominant. Jaina is a more persistent threat throughout but both already have so many counters. There are so many heroes in the game that can either close the gap on them (The Butcher, Muradin, Illidan, Leoric, Zeratul, Sonya), put them horribly out of position (Johanna, Murdain, Stitches, Loeric) or can completely eliminate the safety of their positioning (Nova, Zeratul).
Give it a few more patches, some new OP assassins will come out, Kael will get some nerf like having Flamethrower and Ignite on the same talent tier and everyone will be bitching about the new problem while Kael'thas languishes with Illidan and Thrall.
Edit: Or ^^ that will happen.
jaundicejuice
Member
Every support in Heroes of the Storm is a healer, every single one. If the ability to heal isn't in their default kit, they can talent into it. How well they can heal is the metric by which they are scored by the game and deemed useful by the community. Tyrande and Tassadar have poor healing capabilities and are thus used less. Brightwing's healing gets nerfed and the hero drops like a stone. Healing equals support in Heroes of the Storm because of hero and game design.
Edit: Sometimes I'm happy HotS doesn't have items and other times it bothers me. Dota has a wider range of heroes with an assortment of abilities that can be classified as support.
Edit: Sometimes I'm happy HotS doesn't have items and other times it bothers me. Dota has a wider range of heroes with an assortment of abilities that can be classified as support.
next week sales
Weekly Sale Items for August 11 18, 2015
Li Li -- Sale Price: 1.99 EUR / 1.49 GBP
Festival Li Li Skin -- Sale Price: 4.99 EUR / 3.69 GBP
Succubus Kerrigan Skin -- Sale Price: 3.69 EUR / 2.70 GBP
Weekly Sale Items for August 11 18, 2015
Li Li -- Sale Price: 1.99 EUR / 1.49 GBP
Festival Li Li Skin -- Sale Price: 4.99 EUR / 3.69 GBP
Succubus Kerrigan Skin -- Sale Price: 3.69 EUR / 2.70 GBP
About fucking time.
Turdburger
Member
When/where is the stream?
I guess I don't see that as a problem? All the supports are still super diverse and picked often enough (look at the Town Hall Invitational and Tyrande's pick rate, especially with Tempo Storm. Tassadar has been a favorite for a while too). Brightwing's healing got decreased to an off support level, but she still has lots of utility, I feel. I just don't see why healing being a function of each support being bad, when tanking is accepted for each warrior and damage for each assassin. Supports are accepted as more than just their healing already.
Turdburger
Member
I think Ketch said it best a while back. There are "supports" and there are "healers" and the two are not the same thing.
Tyrande is a support, Rehgar is a healer.
Tyrande is a support, Rehgar is a healer.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
If you could have a pick phase outside of hl roles wouldnt be a problem, comps could emerge more organically outside of role constraints, and blizzard wouldnt be pigeonholed into giving every new support a heal gummick
Im also of the mind that comps without a healer can be succesful but ppl are used to playing a certain way (talking casual games here) and that this affects statistics more than tyrande/tass base kits
Im also of the mind that comps without a healer can be succesful but ppl are used to playing a certain way (talking casual games here) and that this affects statistics more than tyrande/tass base kits
"fans correctly say tyrande and tassadar cant be full support"
then fucking fix them
edit: I still have a feeling Rexxar and Kherazim will come out together
edit2: those punishers dont give 2 fucks about your gates lol
then fucking fix them
edit: I still have a feeling Rexxar and Kherazim will come out together
wishful thinking 
edit2: those punishers dont give 2 fucks about your gates lol
wishful thinking
They said it was a disaster the one time they did it. Keep wishing.
Punisher mechanic looks awesome.
do you enjoy hurting me Alur? does it bring you joy? ;_;
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Medic!
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Two games have gotten Pit Lord before Dota 2 got Pit Lord
super-famicom
Member
Called it.
showed video so shes probably more far along than Artanis. Showed the ult where she summons a med evac ship, it stays there for a bit and players can get in, and then you can fly anyware. like a mix of falstad flying / brightwing teleport, but for multiple players. Boss ganks will be so real
Turdburger
Member
I'd assume the medic will come before Artanis
They haven't showed anything about Artanis and it seems they'd wait to launch him with LotV
They haven't showed anything about Artanis and it seems they'd wait to launch him with LotV
y do u do dis 2 urself wen u kno the answer
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll