FieryBalrog
Member
Dustin looks like he just returned from the gulag.
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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
- Thread starter Nirolak
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He actually looks way better now than he did a year+ ago.
for those that missed it Medic pretty much looked like this
except the things on the back were huge and almost looked like tentacles / spikes
Yeah, Blizzard tweeted an image:
Yeah.
Given that we got gameplay, would assume Medic's the lead-off hero for the patch after Monk/Rexxar
super-famicom
Member
*high five*
If true then This is so fucking stupid.
Sometimes the shit they do makes no sense. Ignite is really strong and probably like 99% pick rate... But it's a cool fucking talent. Its a 1000 times more interesting then +75% damage or +50% range. There are so many other ways they could address the problem. Why do they constantly take the most interesting shit out of the game?
Let's just make every ranged assassin raynor and every support uther. then we don't have to worry about balance, and I'll stop playing the game.
super-famicom
Member
I'd say that's probably why, Blizz wants people to not be forced to pick one talent to be viable. Whether people agree with their decisions or not is another story.
It's too strong no matter how you want to paint it. Too much power in one ability and they've shown time and again they don't want all the power to be in one ability.
Name me some other heroes who get a full cast of their second ability by casting their first ability. It's kind of silly.
Should they remove it? I dunno. I would've preferred a nerf as well to something like a 50% Living Bomb a-la the Double Bombs Zeratul nerf. I can't remember what I said exactly, but I suggested to Milly they put Flamethrower and Ignite on the same tier as a way to nerf it, so you either pick the safety or you pick the power.
Something needed to be done though.
Because it's not interesting, it's brain-dead ez-mode gameplay that's busted and impossible to tune.
Empowering your Q every time its up is not "interesting". It's just OP as fuck right now.
This too. It's EZ mode as hell once you hit 16. Sure he's immobile and all that, but with the range + D + Q you can basically infinitely cast this shit without committing. It was questionable design to be sure and got exploited to the fullest in the meta.
and a free ability 1 when you cast ability 2 is NOT "braindead ez-mode"?
Because of the delay it requires something to keep them locked down in order to get the second part to hit.
Agreed.
no more shitty off cam pics, have a video of the new heroes and skins
DAT FIRE CHAIN LIGHTNING :O thats a awesome skin
oh lol Hammer is actually a orc in the new skin, thats so awesome. Best skin confirmed. The missile ult is the spinning deathball thing from Warlords of Draenor lol
DAT FIRE CHAIN LIGHTNING :O thats a awesome skin
oh lol Hammer is actually a orc in the new skin, thats so awesome. Best skin confirmed. The missile ult is the spinning deathball thing from Warlords of Draenor lol
The new ability is trash - it will only ever be useful when your team is running a huge amount of CC to trap people, and even then it's significantly less damage than the current ability.
From what we hear Kael is getting other talent changes as well, which is great - because with just the change outlined, he drops massively in power to the point where I don't see why you would pick him. Hopefully Blizzard realise this and the other changes boost him up elsewhere and open up more options.
Agreed. Flamethrower + Ignite same tier. Ignite's bonus Living Bomb only doing 50%, etc etc. Maybe even a general CD nerf of 1 or 2 more secs.
It was gonna get it one way or another, just have to wait and see how it looks.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I like KT, but its a well deserved nerf he needs. Letting him place LB on everyone with one Q is disgusting.
Now Jaina, any nerfs on her? What about Zerafool?
Now Jaina, any nerfs on her? What about Zerafool?
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yeah, Blizzard tweeted an image:
WAIT WHAT!!!!!!
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
And when I said Kael'thas needed a fix, I got attacked by ya'll.
Same with Illidan, before he got nerfed.
Yeah.
the problem is in terms of actually winning matches, Kael isn't overpowered - by a long stretch. There are numerous other heroes doing better than him right now.
So whilst it might *feel* overpowered, it actually isn't resulting in unbalanced games. There are plenty of other heroes more problematic right now for the game - Kael doesn't actually need a nerf in terms of overall power. He needs some work so he has some options he can actually pick other than the one true build, but he doesn't need a nerf.
For comparisons sake, right now in Masters League there are 15 heroes who have a higher win rate than him - including Marky, SONYA, Lost Vikings, Arthas, THRALL. Even looking at bronze league there are still 8 other heroes better than him. Kael does not need a power adjustment.
I actually dont think kael needs a nerf, but that other assassins need to be raised up. If they are adjusting his risk/reward id rather they increase the risk since it promotes synergy tho
I dunno the specifics of medivac but it kinda seems like it needs a bunch of bd protection
I dunno the specifics of medivac but it kinda seems like it needs a bunch of bd protection
Interfectum
Member
HOLY SHIT
brightwing teleport for the whole team? lol. I wonder how many people can get in the ship?
HotS deathball can now instantly be anywhere on the map. gg
Every talent in KT's tree is the same way though. Fission bomb, Phoenix, flame thrower,
Blink.... All basically required picks.
The fact that not many other heroes have a thing like that is what makes it interesting. And the power is not solely in the ignite talent, it's the massive synergy in that build which makes it powerful. But instead of nerfing the actual brain dead uninteresting and ez mode talents they completely remove a unique aspect of the hero. RIP.
It is interesting in the sense that the whole hero concept is about combining your abilities, AND there's not much else like it in the game. It was a unique aspect of the hero that made him powerful. It's exactly what heroes need in MOBAs, and it's not impossible to tune. They should have started with the easiest changes that any fucking designer could do: fission bomb and flamethrower are % based talents that would be ridiculously easy to adjust and effect nothing about what's cool about KT. then there's all kinds of stuff they could do to ignite instead of completely removing it. Have the talent also increase the CD on flamestrike, or reduce flamestrikes radius, or reduce the damage of living bomb. Then there's shit they can do outside that: put it on the same tier with flamethrower, reduce his HP scaling into the late game, get rid of blink at 20.
They should have just gotten rid of flamethrower because chain bomb ignite is way more interesting anyway.
I don't know How can you even say it's impossible to tune when they (or you) didn't even try. Just completely remove a unique thing from the game again! It's the only way to save em.
Look in the mirror.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Now back to me!
Opinions on why it's not OP is salty? I'll never get some peoples logic. Ketch didn't sound salty in the slightest.
Seriously? He literally has a talent that is +75% damage to living bomb, and you call ignite an uninteresting flat damage buff. Get out of here with that idiocy.
By all means Nerf KTs damage, I'm 100% salt free in that department. But removing ignite and leaving fission bomb and flamethrower just makes the hero more boring. it's a bad change for the hero and the game and bodes poorly for their design philosophy.
I think Ketch was referring to the fact that Kael was one of the few heroes with a notable power spike at such and such level (that wasn't 10), and this adds a different dimension to games with him where one team is trying to stall out until Kael goes on line and the other is trying to prevent this, which can lead to strategies and tactics and drafts that wouldn't have existed otherwise if everyone had the same power growth at all points in the game.
EDIT: Or not, apparently. I personally think this is the best part of Kael as a hero.
EDIT: Or not, apparently. I personally think this is the best part of Kael as a hero.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I dunno about you guys, but I've got the medic as my wallpaper now. This is the most exciting hero for me... I hope they get the similar voice actor!
Because it's the same BS rationalization/pushback that comes from literally any sort of nerf in the game. Ignite is literally just a massive damage upgrade on his Q. There's nothing special or different about it- it just happened to also scale with his W talents, which is very hard to tune- multiplicative talents are a big issue in many character's talent trees, and this was an instance where the massive damage boost + talent multipliers were just not going to make it work, especially if you wanted to allow Kael to actually have options on his tree.
How to beat Ignite was "hit 16 before your opponents by a good margin, which you are trying to do anyway." For Azmo, there's specific counter-play to his stacking- Uther's one way to screw with him, Tyrael's another. This is why Kael's winrate is likely where it is- in addition to him being a glass cannon that punishes lower-skill players in a match, he's very snowbally in either direction. Hit 16 first, you can go ham on the opponents- if they hit 16 first, they're going to have an advantage against him.
The better fix for Kael is to remove Ignite, work on his talents, and increase his overall damage output so he's not so damn spiky at 16. Ignite forces them to balance the #s for every other ability around people picking Ignite, and that's very unhealthy for the character. If a character is having a massive spike at a non-10/20 hero level, its a sign that something may be awry with their current design. (Zeratul's another example of this, where his L13 feels like an L20.)
+75% is a boring flat damage buff that I'd rather not see in the game over a more interesting option, but its not one that completely upends the character and warps everything else around it.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
One talent should be "Go for the face!"
No it's not dude. Basically what you're saying is that they should make him more like every other ranged assassin in the game. Don't you understand that having a bunch of heroes that are all very similar is a really bad idea for MOBA design?
But that exactly why it's good and why it should stay. Talents that make a hero unique, change the way they play, or give them a specific power spike make the game fun. It's why heroic abilities are awesome.
Nova's anti armor shells.
Johanna's knight takes pawn or lvl 20 shield
Falstad BOOMerang
Jainas root
Zagaras mutalisks
sonya mystic spear
Zera wormhole
Melting point
Living the dream
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
All talents should be different variations of smork
He's already different- his trait doesn't work like anyone else's. Please explain how taking away 1 talent makes him like "everyone else". (Spoiler: It doesn't.)
Currently, his trait exists only as a buff to his Q post-16. Getting him to a place where you would potentially use any of the 3 options throughout the game is much better than where we are now.
Oh no, you can't stand in the backline and mindlessly aim massive AoEs from way far away- the playstyle is braindead, boring, takes away the risk/reward inherent to his lack of mobility, and they're right to make it far less rewarding should you choose to build him that way.
edit: Also, removing ignite allows you to start buffing the W talents in interesting ways because you no longer have to worry about the multipliers. I'd love to see a viable "plague of Chain Bombs" build in there.
I was on the edge of buying it since I've started playing Illidan again, but yeah, it's pretty boring. I went into the try map to have a look and the lack of new animations really hurts if you pick the blue hint and use metamorphosis.
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