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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK

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tylerf

Member
I think I'm going to play a lot of Abathur this week. I'm not an expert but some of the play I've seen so far has been...not good. The last one sat near the gates the whole game and was so engrossed in symbiote he forgot to pick talents at level 10 and 13 until I said something.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yeah, I know that I'm talking for a lot of people now - I am really, really not enjoying this week so far.
 
Monk is pretty nuts. Not sure how I feel about new Kerrigan yet. Sustain is crazy better, but not-sprint is painful garbage 9 times out of 10 and my timing for everything is still based on real sprint. Ravage talents still feel junk tier.

Shields finally feel like I always thought they should, but going deep is still a bad enough idea that I almost think damage talents even if not as good might still make a better build late game. Got a lot more playing before I settle though, nice that it hasn't affected how I like to build her too much though.

KT combos I see are insane. Stunlock you for full life if you run in a straight line basically.

New map would be one of my least favorites if the last map hadn't existed. It's tough to complain about anything after Battlefield, but really it feels like a shitty combo of Sky Temple and Garden.
 

MoonGred

Member
Even as a new player I can already tell it's going to be a long week, every game I've played had Abathur in it and lets say that 1/10 knows how to play him.
Played around with Ilidan some more and so far he's probably my favourite hero, serious potential to wreck shit.
 

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
QM matchmaking is questionable at times.

GUJQL72.png

On the upside Muradin absolutely destroys kids. Spec for thunder clap healing and increased CD and pick fights in enemy minion waves, fun times.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
I'm gonna be the bad guy here and say, where do you want people to learn heroes (for example Abathur) if not in QM? Bot matches are completely useless to learn anything. If you are so fussed about losing or having bad games go to hero league which is where you should be anyway for real games. QM is meaningless
 

Alavard

Member
I'm gonna be the bad guy here and say, where do you want people to learn heroes (for example Abathur) if not in QM? Bot matches are completely useless to learn anything. If you are so fussed about losing or having bad games go to hero league which is where you should be anyway for real games. QM is meaningless

You're not wrong. But I see a different point of view when I'm stuck on Dragonshire with a bad Abathur on both teams.
 

Alur

Member
Spent about 10 games on PTR earlier swapping out Monk and trying out new heroes (and avoid Quick Match w/ Abathur week).

Still super snowbally, but we did come back two or three times finally. We did have one game go 18 minutes and another like 21 minutes. We also had this:


7:30 game.

Sylvanas and Sgt. Hammer seem pretty strong on this map. Sylvanas due to the small area of the shrines + the spread of W + compact for silence, and Hammer has a lot of good spots to hide and pew pew.

Monks healing is hard to gauge due to how quick the games go. I'm starting to lean towards it being more on the Brightwing side of things (lots of numbers built up over time) with a more reliable ult to save when you can time it right. He seems to have pretty good sustain but there's no real burst to speak of.

Very fun though.

IMO new map mechanic is the coolest yet. Way overtuned, but the creatures attacking players and structures makes way more sense than creatures attacking only structures.

I'm gonna be the bad guy here and say, where do you want people to learn heroes (for example Abathur) if not in QM? Bot matches are completely useless to learn anything. If you are so fussed about losing or having bad games go to hero league which is where you should be anyway for real games. QM is meaningless

It's not a bad guy thing. You're right. QM is where people go to learn heroes.

By that same token, you've posted lamenting losing streaks or Nova week or whatever and the like you've encountered just like the rest of us have. It's only natural. It's a PVP/competitive game and sometimes it's painfully obvious that one specific person just couldn't cut the mustard and that is frustrating.

My argument against this is that from my experience personally and observing those I've played with often/watched play often, if you don't have a natural aptitude for that heroes' play style or pick up the gist within the first few games it's probably not gonna jive with you, much like certain roles/classes in MMOs are unplayable for most players because it doesn't fit their mindset/playstyle. It's up to the player whether they continue to beat their head on the glass ceiling to bust through with an Abathur or a Murky or whoever they struggle with, but in the online world to vastly underperform as some of these Nova's/Abathur's/whoever and drag 4 other people down with you then you're probably gonna catch some flack. Plenty of folks catch BM for playing their hero the right way, after all. Definitely gonna catch it for doing it wrong.

I've never bought into "it's just QM it's pointless" either. If it was pointless we'd all play bots and online PVP in shooters, mobas, mmos, etc wouldn't be such a big thing. You want to test your skill against another team in a fair setting, not in a 4v5 which is where the frustration comes from. It's not hero league, sure, but that doesn't mean I try less hard or want to win any less. I'm rarely gonna roll Murky out in HL even though he's my favorite, for example, but when I octo a squishy in QM I still expect people to follow it up just the same.


giphy.gif
 
It's incredibly important for people to experiment and repeatedly fail with uncommon heroes in QM. Failures help teach you just as much, if not more, than winning does. People go against Nova/Zeratul and think "stealth is broken, this is garbage, how are you supposed to beat this?". Then you have a free Zeratul/Nova week, and all those people realize it's not just an automatic win.

But that failure is what helps them learn how to counter and play against the heroes even if they never get personally 'good' with them. They realize the limitations of stealth and the ranges of health which can make someone vulnerable to a pickoff. They learn what levels correlate to important power spikes via talents. At the very least they're building personal knowledge of the abilities and traits that they can better remember going forward.

The best way to learn how to counter or deal with a hero is to fail at trying to win with them.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
Been on a diablo (the game) kick lately (farming that damn set reducing ring) so haven't played much heroes the last 2 days, but last time I did (well last time was earlier when I quickly did the 2 diablo games daily) somehow I'm almost level 9 on Zera...been playing him a lot. Maybe I should try and learn Nova since aparently in this game I don't hate stealth /shrug

Although from what I've seen Zera seems like a much more complete hero compared to his invisible-bro...err...sis?
 

tylerf

Member
I have no problem with people learning in QM and I never flame anyone who isn't playing well because I've had games where I play a new hero poorly too. It's just not as fun when every single game is like that.

Maybe I should try and learn Nova since aparently in this game I don't hate stealth /shrug

Although from what I've seen Zera seems like a much more complete hero compared to his invisible-bro...err...sis?
I think she's really fun in the moments when you get to totally blow someone up, but to me she's not as fun as Zeratul overall because Zer just feels like he has more ways he can impact the game even when he's not going in for a kill.
 
I have no problem with people learning in QM and I never flame anyone who isn't playing well because I've had games where I play a new hero poorly too. It's just not as fun when every single game is like that.

I'm not super sympathetic to this line of thinking because quick-match is just unranked matchmaking (and it has no picks/bans). So there's an assumption of the risk in queuing that you'll get unbalanced compositions and players of widely disparate skills.

To get balanced skill-levels, you have to play ranked. To get balanced compositions, you have to have a pick/ban system. There's no reason not to play ranked if you're looking for a competitively balanced match.
 
I'm gonna be the bad guy here and say, where do you want people to learn heroes (for example Abathur) if not in QM? Bot matches are completely useless to learn anything. If you are so fussed about losing or having bad games go to hero league which is where you should be anyway for real games. QM is meaningless

First few games should be bot matches out of simple courtesy. You should have an idea of what the hero and its abilities even do and what sort of build you want to roll with before subjecting other people to your play in an actual match. Ranked or not.
 

Ketch

Member
I just went for a random KT build with gravity lapse cooldown at 1 and range at 4, sunfury enchantment, pyro blast, living bomb reduces cooldowns, arcane barrier and arcane power at 20.

stuns into double bombs for cooldown into more stuns, arcane barrier and an instant mana refil and you just never stop throwing out spells. maximum outplay potential. I got entombed and then turned it around on them. was pretty good. We also had Diablo and Tyrande for maximum chain stun destruction.

Apocalypse wrecks entomb.

i hate the new map tho, even when your winning it feels shitty.
 

Alur

Member
I'm not super sympathetic to this line of thinking because quick-match is just unranked matchmaking (and it has no picks/bans). So there's an assumption of the risk in queuing that you'll get unbalanced compositions and players of widely disparate skills.

To get balanced skill-levels, you have to play ranked. To get balanced compositions, you have to have a pick/ban system. There's no reason not to play ranked if you're looking for a competitively balanced match.

Sure you're risking uneven compositions due to the nature of the matchmaking, but that doesn't make it suck any less when you find out your Raynor is actually Laynor and never leaves his lane trying to stack Seasoned Marksman, or your Murky is a Marky who feeds endlessly into the enemy and turrets because he doesn't understand the hero.

As for balanced skill levels, in this game you're getting about the same skill level from the matchmaking window in both modes assuming you are capable of performing to the same level in both modes (though there are reasons you may have a big disparity). The only difference is the composition and having your rank on the line. Matchmaking here, like other MOBAs, suffers from you having a specific MMR overall but not an MMR for each individual hero. You can be the world's best Sylvanas and a terrible Muradin, but your team needs a tank and you draft Muradin. Same problems occur in both modes.

There's also plenty of reasons to play non-ranked versus ranked when you're looking for a good game. Some are subjective, but they exist. If you wanna spam play a hero you love, you have to QM. You wanna play a hero or like Murky or Gazlowe or Chen and not get qq'd at in every draft, you play QM. Tanked your hero league MMR grouping with friends who weren't of the same level, or before you learned how to play and improved? You probably play QM because your MMR is higher there and the quality of play is better.

For me it's not a "one is for fun the other is for srs" thing. I play the game for fun, but I play both modes to win. You will encounter people playing heroes they either mistakenly think they are good at or that they are learning in both modes. Just because there's a rank attached to the mode doesn't make it immune, it simply makes it a little less likely at this early state of the game.

i hate the new map tho, even when your winning it feels shitty.

I like the layout. I love the objective/punisher. I agree with you it should scale up past 30 in order to prevent snowballing. And the punisher itself is wicked OP.

I'm with you 100% though. Even when I won it felt shitty, like we were playing bots because whoever gets snowballed has little to no chance to turn it. Out of 15 games I've had 3 comebacks occur on the map when another team got the first punisher.
 

tylerf

Member
There's no reason not to play ranked if you're looking for a competitively balanced match.

I'm not really interested in discussing the main points any further but I wanted to comment on this. I play QM mostly because HL was more negative and toxic than I was willing to put up with. At the point I'm at now (around rank 20), the amount of people calling GG after 3 minutes and staying in lane the rest of the game to prove a point is astounding. Most of the time I find QM to be a happy balance between people caring too much and caring too little. I'm not out here telling people they can't play any character they want in QM, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to find weeks like this one a bit annoying.
 
I'm not really interested in discussing the main points any further but I wanted to comment on this. I play QM mostly because HL was more negative and toxic than I was willing to put up with. At the point I'm at now (around rank 20), the amount of people calling GG after 3 minutes and staying in lane the rest of the game to prove a point is astounding. Most of the time I find QM to be a happy balance between people caring too much and caring too little. I'm not out here telling people they can't play any character they want in QM, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to find weeks like this one a bit annoying.

It happens. I just had a horrible streak of losses in HL because people would argue and complaing to each other. It got better though.

It comes and goes I suppose.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
First few games should be bot matches out of simple courtesy. You should have an idea of what the hero and its abilities even do and what sort of build you want to roll with before subjecting other people to your play in an actual match. Ranked or not.

How do you know they didn't play bot matches? And i firmly believe that anything more than 1 bot match, if only to learn the spells, is completely useless. You learn more by watching videos than playing bot matches.
 
I played a QM, quite recently, with a Chen that didn't know how to tank damage or refill his ability resource. Never used the trait once. Would throw out three abilities, run dry, waddle around and right click stuff until he died all the while complaining about how Chen was a terrible hero. Then I got matched with that same player again and they were still playing Chen. "Have to get him to 5"

Now, if that wasn't a troll, that was legitimately the worst player I have ever seen. I don't care if it's ranked or not, that shit wasted an hour of my time and clearly never practiced with the hero once.
 

Celegus

Member
Tried a few QM games as Ab, and holy geez we got deeeestroyed. I think I actually did fine, but my team every match was full of Butchers and Illidans that tried to go 1v5 over and over and over. I don't think the last Butcher realized his charge isn't a one hit kill and he probably shouldn't dive into the enemy team every life, unless of course you're trying to go 2-15. So I still have no clue if I actually like Abathur or not yet.
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
As you said, that guy just wanted the gold and probably had no interest in learning the hero. It sucks. That's not what we're talking about tho.

I had a Nova in HL (not even QM) that refused to play (ran around in circles so wouldn't afk out) because we said in draft that first pick Nova isn't the best idea.

Idiots exist. Not every bad player is one tho.
 
Went to a nearby PC방 to play with a friend today. The net cafe bonuses in this game are awesome! I had no idea! Totally worth it.

c6rAyXj.png

Lk2TB8x.png


The two "free" mounts are both tigers.

I'm going to try to level as many guys to 5 as I can. Gotta get that gold, yo.

please ignore the low levels it's my second account
 

Rhaknar

The Steam equivalent of the drunk friend who keeps offering to pay your tab all night.
My house has internet and i have coffee there. Does that count blizz? :(
 

Alur

Member
I think I'll come here every time a new character comes out. Can try them out for almost-free day one in real matches.

That sounds pretty awesome. I'd do the same if Blizzard didn't already have my wallet locked away lol

Is there much HOTS activity at that cafe or do you know? I'm always curious how much new activity the game is getting beyond the little bit we can glean from here/reddit/Twitch numbers.
 
That sounds pretty awesome. I'd do the same if Blizzard didn't already have my wallet locked away lol

Is there much HOTS activity at that cafe or do you know? I'm always curious how much new activity the game is getting beyond the little bit we can glean from here/reddit/Twitch numbers.

Haven't seen anyone else play it today. It's a little popular around here, but most people I've met just play it as a secondary game (LoL is the main game everyone plays).

Anyway, I just got 410,000xp for a 30 minute QM win. Pretty nice.
 

Dr. Buni

Member
Abathur is so much fun. I am glad he is on free rotation and I am buying him as soon as I have 7k (I am spending my current 10k on Sylvanas).
 

Alur

Member
I wish the patch was live simply so I could try out Kharazim and the other hero changes on a different map.

Saw Dreadnaught tweeted that he's coming around on Kharazim as a solo support now. Not 100% sold, but not 100% against it like he was initially. His animations are so great and he's so much fun it'd be a shame if he is mothballed and never showcased.
 

kirblar

Member
I wish the patch was live simply so I could try out Kharazim and the other hero changes on a different map.

Saw Dreadnaught tweeted that he's coming around on Kharazim as a solo support now. Not 100% sold, but not 100% against it like he was initially. His animations are so great and he's so much fun it'd be a shame if he is mothballed and never showcased.
He's suited for hyper-aggressive comps- it lets you use the Ult on someone quickly while you try to burst the enemy team down.
 
I fought a Nova so bad I Abba slapped her to death three times though out the match. It got to the point where I would dig to her location to take her out. Wish all matches were this easy.

Keeping that pimp hand strong.
 

Ketch

Member
just had a 40 minute game on sonya, did 95,000 damage, died 10 times. did 200 more damage then our falstad who was second place, everyone else was at like 60-70k

edit: spider queen late game stalemate from hell.
 
how do i assist as abathur on the garden map when nobody goes into the garden at night

1. Soak an unpopulated lane. Hide in a bush close to the creeps, so you can soak their exp. The range is actually pretty close, so you probably won't get any if you hide behind the gate. Watch their team to see if they even notice your locusts. You'd be surprised how ballsy you can be without them knowing. But try not to be seen, and protect yourself. You can do this by having your dig ready, or mining your area and watching the map for any nearby enemies.

2. Help the team in any team fight that might be going on. Preferably in another lane. That way you can double soak exp.

3. If they're all dead or at base, make sure you're safe. If you are, take over a creep in another lane and try to push however you can. Again, double soak.

4. Mine areas you think the enemies are for slight vision/damage. Areas where creeps might get killed (so you can potentially triple soak), or use them to waste turret ammo.

5. Monstrosity. If they're going for objective, they're not paying attention to their lanes. You can get a good push in if you think the time is right.

It's why I love Abathur. There is always something to do.

Edit: These are general rules for all the maps. Garden is actually a pretty good map for him. Now Battlefield, Tomb, or the Dragon Knight. You have to get creative to be useful. Unless there is something I'm overlooking.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
going 4-0 for abathur at the moment...

now im gonna eat my words and lose the next battle im going into


edit: yup, lost lol
 
Just had a very awesome Abba match.

The enemy team was pushing hard to our core and we were ready to gg when the shrines went up. My team was keeping them distracted while I was on the top lane near the shrine soaking, so I grabbed it. Made a Monstrosity on the bottom lane and dug to it capturing the second one, and managed to slug my way to the center, grabbing the knight and taking their core.

Abathur is the best. I've been playing him for months and I can't understand the hate he gets. Makes me worried about playing him in Hero League.
 
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