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[Proven]

So despite having access to the game since April 2014, I played my first Hero League game just now.

It was as terrifying as I've heard it can be. And what scares me more is the fact that I only received 40 bonus points for the win. If I was the type to rush and blame something, it'd be the fact that I've been playing with a friend and multiple friends of friends who were new to the game in quick match for the past three months.

Oh, who am I kidding. I'm scared GAF, I'm scared.

 

[jaundicejuice]

You should play tyrande with he long range owl shadow meld ulti and rewind. Kill him with double long range owls every 40 seconds.

Why is it the moment I start to play Sentinel/Shadowstalk/Rewind Tyrande there are no Abathur's on the other team?

 

[Alur]

So despite having access to the game since April 2014, I played my first Hero League game just now.

It was as terrifying as I've heard it can be. And what scares me more is the fact that I only received 40 bonus points for the win. If I was the type to rush and blame something, it'd be the fact that I've been playing with a friend and multiple friends of friends who were new to the game in quick match for the past three months.

Oh, who am I kidding. I'm scared GAF, I'm scared.

It can fluctuate with the bonus points. On one account I've gained as low as 60 skill points and as much as 515. Your teammates MMR and your opponents factors in to the total. Could've just been you and your team handily outmatched theirs so it didn't give you much.

I wouldn't worry too much unless you see it consistently. As long as you're getting something extra you're still moving upwards...when it stops is when it gets hard.

 

[Ketch]

So despite having access to the game since April 2014, I played my first Hero League game just now.

It was as terrifying as I've heard it can be. And what scares me more is the fact that I only received 40 bonus points for the win. If I was the type to rush and blame something, it'd be the fact that I've been playing with a friend and multiple friends of friends who were new to the game in quick match for the past three months.

Oh, who am I kidding. I'm scared GAF, I'm scared.

Try not to care about points. Just play the mode because it's better then getting shity team comps on random maps. The points will come and go, but the mode is simply more fun.


GAF custom games tonight on PTR. I can be in around 8pm pst. Someone else should carry the torch to get shit started before that though. Whose east coast?

The new GP should be a lvl 1 talent and it should max at like 30

 

[Dice]

Such skills team.

I think the #1 lesson for new players is "looking at them doesn't hurt them"

 

[Maledict]

The new GP may as well not exist. I cannot forsee any circumstances where you take it. You need *five* kills before it is as good as the current version, and then you can lose half of that when you die.

Not that I mind, mind you - I think GP was a bad talent that shouldn't be in the game, and really disliked it on Kael. Just find it weird that rather than admit it doesn't work they just turned it into a trap for new players to mispick a talent.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The new GP may as well not exist. I cannot forsee any circumstances where you take it. You need *five* kills before it is as good as the current version, and then you can lose half of that when you die.

Not that I mind, mind you - I think GP was a bad talent that shouldn't be in the game, and really disliked it on Kael. Just find it weird that rather than admit it doesn't work they just turned it into a trap for new players to mispick a talent.

Mhm. Like on Nova, I'd rather take Envenom but on KT it was practically needed. They should just remove it. Put it down, humanely.

 

[Maledict]

That and Bolt. God's I hate Bolt.

I thnk the entirety of the level 20 talents need revisiting. They have utterly failed at making that tier interesting - there seems to be 4 basic talents ta 20 that everyone takes. Bolt, Hardened Shield, Rewind or Nexus Frenzy / Blades. Very occasionally you'll see a Stormshield or a unique talent (generally from the newer characters like Johanna's invuln), but in general people are picking solely from those 4 talents. It's incredibly dull, tedious and actually makes the game go on longer - your backline dps can now bolt to safety, your tanks can withstand vastly more damage and your combo characters can combo more.

It's such a sad tier - in many ways the least interesting in the game, and the most predictable. Whenever casters get excited about teams having level 20 talents I cry a bit inside because they are just so dull...

 

[Ketch]

New GP might not be terrible in nazeebo. With the bonus HP from lvl 1 passive ice block and blink you can be pretty survivable. Problem is it still takes 15 take downs to hit max stacks.


They seriously just need to buff the shit out of heroic upgrades. Would you still take bolt if lvl 20 pyro blast did 5x the damage? Or hardened shield if mosh pit lasted until it was interrupted or cancelled?

 

[Maledict]

And you give up 3 extra spiders on your spider ability which can be really useful. If you are going the toad build guess it could be okay but how viable does that look compared to spiders in the face?

(I haven't been able to try it yet).

 

[Ketch]

And you give up 3 extra spiders on your spider ability which can be really useful. If you are going the toad build guess it could be okay but how viable does that look compared to spiders in the face?

(I haven't been able to try it yet).

It's probably only worth it if your going old school ravenous build.

 

[subwilde]

Try not to care about points. Just play the mode because it's better then getting shity team comps on random maps. The points will come and go, but the mode is simply more fun.


GAF custom games tonight on PTR. I can be in around 8pm pst. Someone else should carry the torch to get shit started before that though. Whose east coast?

The new GP should be a lvl 1 talent and it should max at like 30

I'm pst as well but no where near the skill level of you guys(around 1800 mmr). I'm down to fill a spot if you need it though

 

[Ketch]

Yes we always need more people for in houses

 

[brian!]

Ill be on around 9est probably

 

[kirblar]

Mhm. Like on Nova, I'd rather take Envenom but on KT it was practically needed. They should just remove it. Put it down, humanely.

I really hope Overdrive meets the same fate on Falstad- just roll the extra damage into the Ult or just the L20 upgrade. Flat +Damage to everything! talents are not interesting.

Reddit post indicating the Matchmaking changes definitely helped- games got 44s longer on average after the fixes went in.

 

[jaundicejuice]

It's easy to fix Bolt of the Storm and make it a primarily offensive talent, make Bolt of the Storm function like Dota 2's Blink Daggers. Any time you take damage the CD is reset by 3 seconds. BD's are great for initiating fights, not as reliable for escaping. If you're in the middle of being ganked, damage is being applied via right clicks, abilities, applied or proximity damage over time, you can't blink out. You're just dead.

While I agree the level 20 ult talents need buffing to be more appealing and generic talents need to go, I would argue that in some cases the generic talents should be retained and made character specific. Character specific versions of generic talents could be made thematically appropriate and then tuned just for that character.

For example Kael'thas should have a mage survival skill if he loses Bolt of the Storm. Jaina has Ice Block, Brightwing has Polymorph, that leaves Evanesce (avoid damage for 3 seconds), Blink (which Bolt of the Storm could turn into), and Dragon's Breath (thematically appropriate for a fire mage). People might balk at Invisibility since that would be similar to one of Tassadar's skills.

 

[Milly79]

If we can't get enough, we should do 3v3 ARAMs or something.

 

[Ketch]

It's easy to fix Bolt of the Storm and make it a primarily offensive talent, make Bolt of the Storm function like Dota 2's Blink Daggers. Any time you take damage the CD is reset by 3 seconds. BD's are great for initiating fights, not as reliable for escaping. If you're in the middle of being ganked, damage is being applied via right clicks, abilities, applied or proximity damage over time, you can't blink out. You're just dead.

i think it's too complicated for heroes. and it wouldn't fit with the rest of the game. maybe a force staff like talent to replace blink on certain heroes.

For example Kael'thas should have a mage survival skill

he has mana shield.

 

[jaundicejuice]

I forgot about Arcane Shield. Probably because it's kinda shit.

 

[Maledict]

16 is way too late to get a defensive talent, especially one that's so lacking compared to say Iceblock.

 

[Ketch]

arcane shield is pretty decent... it's just stone skin, which is not a bad talent. He still does like the most damage of any ranged assassin even after the nerfs, he should still be positioning dependent... except now it's not as easy to play safe and get out that much damage. I think he'll be fine with arcane barrier and blink at 20. If they want people to choose something else besides blink they should buff the other options not nerf/get rid of the stuff that's too strong.

 

[brian!]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/RHUS2tn.png[/IMG]

you guys ever get the same exact top dmg before

 

[Ketch]

nope. pretty spiffy.

that raynor damage.... also spiffy.

 

[Dice]

Things I hate when I'm playing as Nova:
1) When you press the button to snipe and right that moment a minion comes out of the fog of war to block the shot.
2) When you didn't quite finish them so you need to chase but they are far enough you need to mount to catch up... then there is immediately a minion wave before you cloak so you get knocked off and they get away with .02% life.
3) When there are like 2-3 enemies at low health but they are surrounded by minions.
4) Azmodan
5) Minions

 

[Ketch]

list of things I hate when people play nova:
1) Nova

 

[Dice]

That's how I feel when people play Lost Vikings.

Dumbest hero in the game by far.

So dumb.

Why are they there.

 

[kirblar]

That's how I feel when people play Lost Vikings.

Dumbest hero in the game by far.

So dumb.

Why are they there.

To soak ALL the EXP.

 

[powerdrain]

I have the latest patch downloaded, but is Kharazim and the other changes not going through 'til next week then, it's just PBE at the moment?

 

[davepoobond]

Playing as abathur and this nova kept suiciding past our forts to kill me. She only got me a couple times but died equally or more trying to get me, and as a result wasn't helping in her team fights.


Had some other 12 year old playing the game telling me I sucked and how I wasn't saving all of the bads in that game from getting in fights. The 12 year old was a nova at 10% health and stood toe-to-toe fighting a Kerrigan and then blamed me when they died.

Kind of annoying lol. These are things you don't deal with on any other character

 

[Aomber]

So I tried out this game during closed beta, was pretty fun but wasn't gaming much at the time. Thinking of giving it another go.

I've played a lot of Dota 2 in the past, one of the big reasons I quit was due to game length - I sometimes get interrupted while gaming and can't be sitting down for 1.5 hour sessions uninterrupted.

From the stats I've seen with this game, they're roughly 20 minutes give or take. Does that sound about right from peoples experience here?

 

[HoodWinked]

TYRAEL
Sanctification (R)
No longer requires Tyrael to channel the Ability. All Heroes, including Tyrael, will be invulnerable while within Sanctification’s area of effect

hmm

 

[kirblar]

hmm

The radius is a lot smaller now, seems meant to be anti-Wombo now.

 

[Syf]

So I tried out this game during closed beta, was pretty fun but wasn't gaming much at the time. Thinking of giving it another go.

I've played a lot of Dota 2 in the past, one of the big reasons I quit was due to game length - I sometimes get interrupted while gaming and can't be sitting down for 1.5 hour sessions uninterrupted.

From the stats I've seen with this game, they're roughly 20 minutes give or take. Does that sound about right from peoples experience here?

https://www.hotslogs.com/default

Scroll right to the bottom for average length by map. 20 minutes sounds about right for the most part.

 

[jaundicejuice]

16 is way too late to get a defensive talent, especially one that's so lacking compared to say Iceblock.

Yup and yup. A talent tier too late and it's nowhere near as good as Iceblock. I'll choose Arcane Shield to stop certain burst damage ults because it can straight up eat them if I am getting focused down all the time but overall Jaina's kit is just so much better at countering threats to her.

Butcher popping Furnace Blast and charging Jaina with Iceblock up and Kael'thas with Arcane Shield up are two entirely different experiences.

Things I hate when I'm playing as Nova:
1) When you press the button to snipe and right that moment a minion comes out of the fog of war to block the shot.
2) When you didn't quite finish them so you need to chase but they are far enough you need to mount to catch up... then there is immediately a minion wave before you cloak so you get knocked off and they get away with .02% life.
3) When there are like 2-3 enemies at low health but they are surrounded by minions.
4) Azmodan
5) Minions

2 and 3 sound like the wrong heroic was picked.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

I've been watching some PTR streams and assassin Kharazim looks like a ton of fun and a total tank killer with 7 Sided Strike.

 

[Aomber]

https://www.hotslogs.com/default

Scroll right to the bottom for average length by map. 20 minutes sounds about right for the most part.

Oh hey stranger, haha.

But yeah thanks that sounds a lot more reasonable, will give it a go once again

 

[Ketch]

Jaina still doesn't do as much damage as KT though, and he also out ranges her, and he has a stun. Which can be a three man stun. He's defensive talents should be worse then hers.

 

[Proven]

GAF custom games tonight on PTR. I can be in around 8pm pst. Someone else should carry the torch to get shit started before that though. Whose east coast?

The new GP should be a lvl 1 talent and it should max at like 30

I can agree on GP. It probably needs to be increased to be worthwhile, but I worry about just how much 30% more ability damage is.

Does Heroes GAF use the general GAF Mumble server?

That and Bolt. God's I hate Bolt.

I thnk the entirety of the level 20 talents need revisiting. They have utterly failed at making that tier interesting - there seems to be 4 basic talents ta 20 that everyone takes. Bolt, Hardened Shield, Rewind or Nexus Frenzy / Blades. Very occasionally you'll see a Stormshield or a unique talent (generally from the newer characters like Johanna's invuln), but in general people are picking solely from those 4 talents. It's incredibly dull, tedious and actually makes the game go on longer - your backline dps can now bolt to safety, your tanks can withstand vastly more damage and your combo characters can combo more.

It's such a sad tier - in many ways the least interesting in the game, and the most predictable. Whenever casters get excited about teams having level 20 talents I cry a bit inside because they are just so dull...

To be fair, a number of characters have at least one level 20 talent that's related to their base trait that are really thematically cool. Li Li has Kung Fu Hustle, Abathur has both Hivemind and Locus Nest, ETC has Death Metal, etc. The problem is, they only decided on this just a couple months ago on the same patch they added Nexus Frenzy/Blades. In my mind, a handful of them are placeholders until they can get back around to a lot of older characters and add in at least one such trait. I'm looking forward to future on that, although for a lot of characters just having Nexus Frenzy is really, really nice.

Anyway, you're right that most of the talents taken at that level are survivability talents (because it's so punishing to die at that point in the game) which is part of the reason why Bolt is getting nerfed. I look forward to tournaments over the next few weeks.

 

[kirblar]

KT has a big damage vs safety trade-off in his talents now that's really cool.

If you wanted to make Bolt initiation only- make it only castable out of combat?

 

[jaundicejuice]

Jaina still doesn't do as much damage as KT though, and he also out ranges her, and he has a stun. Which can be a three man stun. He's defensive talents should be worse then hers.

Winter's Reach is as long as Nether Wind, if not longer. And Storm Front gives her the same range as Flamethrower gives Kael.

 

[subwilde]

When do these gaf PTR games start?!

 

[Alur]

Does Heroes GAF use the general GAF Mumble server?

It's hit and miss, Some groups do, others don't and prefer Skype. It's been a while since anyone just sat in it like we had around release, though.

At one point we'd almost constantly have an EU group with Yoshichan and then our group and then often a third duo or trio split off somewhere. I haven't seen many EU folks on it at all since Yoshichan went to Japan a bit back and Zafir took a break (I think Zafir took a break anyway ).

There's like 20 channels so feel free to use it with your own friends or whatever.

When do these gaf PTR games start?!

brian! said he'd be on at 9 EST (6 PST), Ketch said 8 PST (11 EST) I think which is a bit of a gap. I'll be on closer to Ketch time than brian! time probably. Someone should make the NeoGAF channel on PTR and see who they can gather up and/or flag down to get a consensus.

 

[Dice]

Dear 90% of my quickmatch teammates: If you mount, you go faster.

 

[kirblar]

I'm home at 10:30-11:00 EST, lemme know if you need a +1.

 

[brian!]

Ill just hold off for later then since im a few hours ahead

 

[Alur]

I think Milly will be around tonight so that would give us at least 5-6 if everyone showed. Would need a few more for customs, could do a 5 man group in QM or could do ARAM 3v3's.

Spoiler

ARAM 3v3's in mid lane is super fun 2v2 works too I guess

 

[subwilde]

Sounds good everyone. Nothing planned for tonight so I'm ready whenever. ARAM sounds pretty fun actually, never done it before.

 

[Ketch]

Last time we tried all random the game broke.

 

[Milly79]

Last time we tried all random the game broke.

It worked when I did it with SolidJake.

 

[Dice]

Do you need to own a character to buy a skin for them?