Complistic
Member
I don't understand why you guys don't just play hero league? Almost every game there is close. Are you just trying to get better with a character?
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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
- Thread starter Nirolak
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I missed the Tassadar part, but yeah, that explains one of them at least.
Pretty much.
Well I cant speak for everyone but I do play mostly Hero League.
Quick Match should be an environment where you could learn, though. Or just relax because you dont want to worry about losing ranking points.
Say I buy Lost Vikings. I aint gonna bring them to HL right away. I need training, expertise.
Or lets say I want to play Hammer, because Im so tired of Jaina/Kaelthas meta. I wont pick Hammer in HL, so QM it is.
But alas, current QM is a bogfest where nothing can be acquired because of botched rules of MMR and team compositions.
racketpunch
Member
I get some close games in HL but the majority of my games are blowouts, win or lose.
jaundicejuice
Member
The upshot of Quick Match in HotS is you get to pick whoever you want to play as and just queue, the downside is you get whack team compositions sometimes.
In Dota 2 there's a 1 min pre-match draft period in All Pick, which I guess would be the closest thing to HotS's QM, and if you don't insta-lock the hero you want to play as, you either become the villain of your team by choosing who you want to play as versus what your team needs or you don't get to play as who you wanted to and play what your team needs for that match.
While I'm going to agree the matchmaking is not perfect and does need improving it's still dealing with what players are choosing to queue as on top of everything else. It's like DPS players bitching about queue times in Warlords of Draenor in WoW. "Why are queue times an hour on average!?" When there are only so many tanks and healers and too many DPS, you're going to get long queue times.
Quick Match match-making in HotS could be improved by removing pre-match/pre-queue hero selection and adding a 1 minute draft mode (sans any bans) at the start of a match. Then the match-making criteria will be less complicated because team comp will be up to the player.
In lieu of that, group up with two other players, confer a bit before queuing and try to pick a solid core of heroes to roll with. Get a good warrior, a good assassin and a good support.
Otherwise simply accept that the consequence of picking whatever hero you want to play as and queuing by yourself is going to be some nutty team compositions every now and then. Or playing with an asshole. Or playing with people that don't gel well and instantly cooperate.
In Dota 2 there's a 1 min pre-match draft period in All Pick, which I guess would be the closest thing to HotS's QM, and if you don't insta-lock the hero you want to play as, you either become the villain of your team by choosing who you want to play as versus what your team needs or you don't get to play as who you wanted to and play what your team needs for that match.
While I'm going to agree the matchmaking is not perfect and does need improving it's still dealing with what players are choosing to queue as on top of everything else. It's like DPS players bitching about queue times in Warlords of Draenor in WoW. "Why are queue times an hour on average!?" When there are only so many tanks and healers and too many DPS, you're going to get long queue times.
Quick Match match-making in HotS could be improved by removing pre-match/pre-queue hero selection and adding a 1 minute draft mode (sans any bans) at the start of a match. Then the match-making criteria will be less complicated because team comp will be up to the player.
In lieu of that, group up with two other players, confer a bit before queuing and try to pick a solid core of heroes to roll with. Get a good warrior, a good assassin and a good support.
Otherwise simply accept that the consequence of picking whatever hero you want to play as and queuing by yourself is going to be some nutty team compositions every now and then. Or playing with an asshole. Or playing with people that don't gel well and instantly cooperate.
What I wish they would add is a group finder like wow for QM. Que to fill a role, tank healer dps, and then it builds the right team comp for you. Tanks and healers will have shorter ques and dps have to wait like forever. But at least you'd get to play what you want and still get a good team comp.
racketpunch
Member
If you want good team compositions then play HL.
Quick Match needs to be quick. I don't want to wait 20 min+ just because I want to dps.
I agree with you on that. When I play Murky in QM, I accept that I may be dooming my team to a lack of damage. It usually works out if we can stall the game late enough, but it was my choice.
You're thing about a one minute draft session where people have to pick heroes - even if they pick a comp with no support or no warrior or what have you - is probably about the only way to solve the issue on a mass scale from my POV. Then the blame is entirely out of Blizzard's hands. It could lead to more toxicity and gg's before the gate opens, though, who knows. I'd still love to see it. Drafting is one of the funnest parts of the game.
I'd love to see this too. I'd also like to see them give the bonus gold or whatever to tanks or support or specialist or whatever is needed at that time to make well rounded groups.
Honestly I think in the end we will see some variation of these things...it's more a question of when, and with Blizzard it could be a while because they do it their way like Frank Sinatra.
It doesn't have to be mandatory. Just a lfg option
So far no one has really run into the issue, since once they start getting saturated, they just slow down.
If it helps, League of Legends has 126 heroes and Dota 2 has 110 heroes. By comparison, Heroes of the Storm only has 39. It will be a long time before they run into this issue.
Heroes also has a lot of diversity tools since they seem fine with adding mechanics whenever they feel like it, and also don't need to worry about items breaking their characters since everything is tied to talents.
However, if we spin the clock ahead four years, I'd guess they'd just release heroes slower and focus on other new features or modes or other such things if the felt they were running low on ideas as opposed to removing heroes.
Maps on the other hand, they've been pretty clear they will be doing rotations on that soon.
When I play HL I feel an obligation to pick a hero that supports my team's composition. Often I want to play a specific hero - for dailies or just because - and it's hard to make that work without screwing over the team or without just announcing like a jerk that you're playing that hero and they can build around you. With QM there's no communication before the game starts and everyone understands that composition is a gamble. I probably would still be reluctant to take Tass into QM, though.
That said, I haven't really noticed the issue of QM matchmaking being terrible, at least when I solo. Some games end up being one-sided but this is often probably due to early mistakes or to composition rather than due to someone being terrible. When I've grouped it seems like matches are more likely to be imbalanced, but I suspect it's just difficult for the system to deal with matching groups period, much less groups where members have varying MMRs.
jaundicejuice
Member
So is Stealth Hams a new thing? I just played a match where Hams took that level 1 stealth talent and combined it with mobile siege later and had the weirdest play style. Creeping around while invis and then trying to burst/gank players. Stealth Hams hunted their Aba like she was a Nova or Zeratul. So weird, kinda funny, weirdly effective.
They already have the random hero selection which is supposed to pick the best role of hero that match-making needs. If they could re-brand it, better communicate its function or just add a +10 or +20 Gold to that icon to get people to use that feature more it might work.
It would be about the same as Dota 2 solo queue All-Pick, which is pretty much the same experience as solo queue Quick Match in HotS. Kinda all over the place. I don't know what the equivalent of 5th pick offlane Sniper would be in HotS but that's the kind of thing you'd see.
Ketch said:
Alur said:
They already have the random hero selection which is supposed to pick the best role of hero that match-making needs. If they could re-brand it, better communicate its function or just add a +10 or +20 Gold to that icon to get people to use that feature more it might work.
Alur said:
It would be about the same as Dota 2 solo queue All-Pick, which is pretty much the same experience as solo queue Quick Match in HotS. Kinda all over the place. I don't know what the equivalent of 5th pick offlane Sniper would be in HotS but that's the kind of thing you'd see.
Aquavelvaman
Banned
I've seen some hammer players that are big believers of the stealth talent once the patch hits. The shorter cooldown on siege mode means you can get the stealth burst a lot easier. Sounds promising, I'll definitely try it out when it goes live. I've always liked sgt hammer. I don't think that the hover siege is all that great though. Graduated range is too good.
Another hero league game, another match up where the enemy team is comprised of ranks 1's and 2's and my team has a rank 43 and a rank 35.
Unless placement matches are purely locked to only people in placement matches the changes they are making will make absolutely no difference to the quality of games. There needs to be a much harder differentiation between different ranks, and the number of games played absolutely needs to be taken into account for hero league. Someone with 1000 games played at 3100 MMR is a very different player to someone with 20 games played at that MMR.
Unless placement matches are purely locked to only people in placement matches the changes they are making will make absolutely no difference to the quality of games. There needs to be a much harder differentiation between different ranks, and the number of games played absolutely needs to be taken into account for hero league. Someone with 1000 games played at 3100 MMR is a very different player to someone with 20 games played at that MMR.
AbundantChoice
Member
Such a great image of the Hammer tank creeping around on its tippy toes to the old Looney Tunes "creeping" music.
Be vewwwwwy vewwwwwy quiet...
While I like the idea of drafting, I don't like that so many HL games come down to the same heroes. Almost every game has Kael'Thas, Jaina, Zeratul, and Muradin. I enjoy the random compositions I get with Quick Match, even though it will be heavily influenced by the free rotation.
But then again, I've been having very good QM experiences lately. Lots of close matches either way, and no rude people.
I also don't want to worry about ranking points.
Are you uploading to HOTSLOGS? If so, could you email-hide your profile on here? If you can't even escape the problem at rank 1, they need to be roasted for it.
I'm really worried that the new system won't actually fix this- instead they're just hiding the rank of the placement rank people so that they can still screw everyone's games over.
I'm not rank 1 I'm afraid - I'm rank 3, my group varies from 1 to 12.
And I absolutely agree re the placement matches - unless there's something changed they haven't told us about, the reset and changes won't make any difference at all and I don't know why they think it will. It might even make it worse - when you are on your 300th ranked game seeing someone who is still in their first 20 matches on your team is going to utterly fuck you off.
Unless people on placement matches are segregated into only playing with other people on placement matches these changes won't fix a thing.
And I absolutely agree re the placement matches - unless there's something changed they haven't told us about, the reset and changes won't make any difference at all and I don't know why they think it will. It might even make it worse - when you are on your 300th ranked game seeing someone who is still in their first 20 matches on your team is going to utterly fuck you off.
Unless people on placement matches are segregated into only playing with other people on placement matches these changes won't fix a thing.
It would be but the difference is we'd be doing it to ourselves as opposed to Blizzard doing it at random, which is what most of the complaint is. If your team picks that comp, you chalk it up to idiots and go on about your day. If your team randoms into that comp, you all lol and gg at the start and bitch about how badly you got fucked and post on reddit/forums about horrible matchmaking. It's the illusion of choice.
I'm not sure what it's changing either. It seems kind of nebulous to be honest.
If it keeps the same MMR (which it does according to Blizzard) I'm not sure how it fixes the issue kirblar and I have. We'll still be stuck in the same range we are now. By the same token my other account should be able to easily go through placement at or near rank 1 since it's already there. So all in all that seems like a wash.
There is the implication in this line...
Blizzard said:
...that you will now be matched by ranks because it's basically guaranteeing your MMR is in that window. If that is true, that is at least some improvement whether you belong at that rank or not. At least you shouldn't be seeing as many outliers in your bracket so you can compete against what it thinks you should compete against.
I'm curious about how it will go honestly. More than anything I'm fearful that a losing streak will once again doom you to a point that it takes a ridiculous amount of time to overcome.
It is frustrating. One of our group whose currently at rank 12 has been trying out a smurf account as a test, and it's *ridiculous* how much of a difference that makes. The fact is if you screw up your first few games in hero league, like most of us did when it was new, it's exceptionally harder to get to the high ranks.
I dunno I played random and still do and rank 1 was pretty easy. I've lost hundreds of games due to being unfamiliar with gimmicky heroes (I own them all!)
Yessir. I've proven that too. One account to rank 1 in 82 games, another account I've been playing on went from rank 31 to rank 12 in the last two days in 9 wins and is like 21-11 overall. Meanwhile my main is like 48-53 and rank 27 because there was no skill bonus when I started and the record was way in the hole because we played with literally anybody and didn't know better.
Way too much weight on the start and not enough weight on actual improvement.
And your skill may far exceed most of us for all we know. Or you had a nice run at the start. It's not exactly as simple as "it was easy for me" and "it was hell for me".
The fact remains I know of and have seen quite a few posts here and on reddit from more than a few people from the 2800 to 3300 range in QM with 500 to 1000 games played who have HL MMR that is two leagues lower due to the weight of the start, or playing with friends who weren't ready, or whatever. Considering the fact that 2800 is the threshold for rank 1 (and you can occasionally get it below that) it's not like it's not an issue when you have that skill but have a bad run and then when you start winning as you should, you don't have the amount of bonus other players receive and the grind increases sevenfold.
The way the skill bonus works and how much boost it gives you means that when it's gone early, it literally takes you a ridiculous amount of time and grind to get to a decent rank and MMR bracket. davemo sits around the same MMR as myself and everyone else we play with and it took him 1126 games to crawl out of the same MMR hole my main account is in, for example, as we did our first 75-100 games together with friends who were lower MMR or brand new without knowing how bad it would hurt us. The assumption at that time was you'd be able to rank here steadily just like you can in Hearthstone because it was modeled after Hearthstone...but it turned out not to be the case.
If you're a legit 3k MMR player, you shouldn't be forced to slog through 25-30 ranks gaining 60-80 and losing 120 because of a few tanked games at the start even after you get above .500, while another guy who is say 2800 won a bunch to start gets both matchmade with rank 10+ players starting at rank 35ish as well as 400+ points well into rank 10+ if he can maintain above .500. It just doesn't make sense and it's even more silly when you try again on a smurf and faceroll into the teens.
EDIT: Double pasta
I like this idea. +10 gold for randoming in QM? I would always random, and I would play a lot more QM.
I feel like HL is basically just Dota 2 all pick. and the equivalent pick would be a 5th pick illidan when you have no supports.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Sounds like HL isn't my cup of tea when I want to be the butcher or slyvanas.
Eh Sylvanas is amazing as a specialist.
And Butcher is amazing providing you have the right support (Uther) for it.
those are both good picks for HL. a bad pick for HL would be like first pick murky. or stitches or thrall or gazlowe...
At least Murky's actually good.
lol
murky is decent, but def not a first pick, even in HL. they can just draft burst damage and ur screwed
good duo que:
valla/malf
kt/malf
zagara/malf
Zeratul/KT
Zeratul/Azmodan
Zeratul/Nova if you're feeling lucky (and are an asshole)
jaina/KT
Jaina/valla
Leoric/abathur
Tyreal/Falstad
ETC/Nova
Stitches/tyrande or uther
any melee assassin, muradin, or sonya with abathur or tassadar or rehgar or uther
edit: just had a game where our last pick hovered on tychus the entire time even though we didn't have a support and they already had tychus on the other team. Randoms a zagara when we already have nazeebo, jaina, and KT..... we win the game anyway in 15 minutes 30 to 5 and I did over 50k damage. lol. time for bed.
I can't wait for the patch! Netherwind and Zombie wall from down town!
murky is decent, but def not a first pick, even in HL. they can just draft burst damage and ur screwed
good duo que:
valla/malf
kt/malf
zagara/malf
Zeratul/KT
Zeratul/Azmodan
Zeratul/Nova if you're feeling lucky (and are an asshole)
jaina/KT
Jaina/valla
Leoric/abathur
Tyreal/Falstad
ETC/Nova
Stitches/tyrande or uther
any melee assassin, muradin, or sonya with abathur or tassadar or rehgar or uther
edit: just had a game where our last pick hovered on tychus the entire time even though we didn't have a support and they already had tychus on the other team. Randoms a zagara when we already have nazeebo, jaina, and KT..... we win the game anyway in 15 minutes 30 to 5 and I did over 50k damage. lol. time for bed.
I can't wait for the patch! Netherwind and Zombie wall from down town!
That would be a big change. Until now I assumed they just change the window dressing, the carrot on the stick. But yeah the sentence could imply a bigger change.
It could also imply, the whatever is displayed after the changes, just gives you a lot of chances to see growing bars.
That they will "rank" you low, so you will see improvement as you are getting closer to your real "rank".
Blizzard did something similar in Starcraft 2. At the start of the season you were put into a lower league than your rating implied, and you could only climb during a season.
Why do you reckon Azmodan & Zeratul is a good combo btw? Are you using zeratul to help clear the waves to stack Azmo?
Azmodan with either Johanna or Leoric is also a great combo - both are capable of helping Azmodan stack his globe really high, really fast from the very first wave if they co-ordinate.
Azmodan with either Johanna or Leoric is also a great combo - both are capable of helping Azmodan stack his globe really high, really fast from the very first wave if they co-ordinate.
yes you can cleave and clear waves to build stacks, body block the enemy while they're getting lasered, and also blink in and murder people after they get globed in the late game. kind of the same reason he's good with KT. for that blink/wormhole follow up on the long range nukes.
jaundicejuice
Member
Just hit 19 with Kael'thas. One thing that's been interesting predominantly sticking with just one hero with the game as it's patched and balanced, as player tendencies shift, and new heroes are added is the shifting, amorphous range of threats you face.
The latest is Illidan and The Hunt. There's been a huge spike in the number of Illidan's I've been facing and virtually every one of them uses The Hunt now. It kinda feels like I'm playing against Spirit Breaker so I know enough to not provide the enemy team vision of myself when I am alone, and try to never be alone but beyond dry humping my team or my own fortifications, I'm unsure of how to deal with The Hunt. I usually drop an empowered Flamestrike and Phoenix right on my feet right before that mini-stun/impact, and--if there isn't accompanying burst damage, like a Nova, Butcher or Zeratul--I throw out Lapsed Gravity and a Living Bomb if I can and hope my teammates are paying attention. I also try to position myself closer to forts or teammates in that brief window. If it's just illidan, he's usually dead before I am, if there's a focused effort to kill me, I'm dead before the stun finishes.
I've played against some well coordinated combos, Illidan with The Hunt and an invis hero to scout and help gank is the most effective. The Butcher is pretty obnoxious as well.
The latest is Illidan and The Hunt. There's been a huge spike in the number of Illidan's I've been facing and virtually every one of them uses The Hunt now. It kinda feels like I'm playing against Spirit Breaker so I know enough to not provide the enemy team vision of myself when I am alone, and try to never be alone but beyond dry humping my team or my own fortifications, I'm unsure of how to deal with The Hunt. I usually drop an empowered Flamestrike and Phoenix right on my feet right before that mini-stun/impact, and--if there isn't accompanying burst damage, like a Nova, Butcher or Zeratul--I throw out Lapsed Gravity and a Living Bomb if I can and hope my teammates are paying attention. I also try to position myself closer to forts or teammates in that brief window. If it's just illidan, he's usually dead before I am, if there's a focused effort to kill me, I'm dead before the stun finishes.
I've played against some well coordinated combos, Illidan with The Hunt and an invis hero to scout and help gank is the most effective. The Butcher is pretty obnoxious as well.
What happens when Illidan is using The Hunt on an E.T.C. that is using Mosh Pit?
While Illidan get stunned while flying in, or will he hit E.T.C. adn end the Mosh Pit?
Could it depend on timing, i.e.: if Illidan flies in between 2 Mosh Pit cycles?
I ask, because I like using the Hunt to cancel big spells of enemies.
While Illidan get stunned while flying in, or will he hit E.T.C. adn end the Mosh Pit?
Could it depend on timing, i.e.: if Illidan flies in between 2 Mosh Pit cycles?
I ask, because I like using the Hunt to cancel big spells of enemies.
Double post:
next free hero rotation:
http://eu.battle.net/heroes/pl/forum/topic/12618073860?page=3#46
via reddit
next free hero rotation:
- Malfurion
- Valla
- Anub'arak
- Tychus
- Nazebo
- Johanna (od poziomu 12)
- Kael'thas (od poziomu 15)
http://eu.battle.net/heroes/pl/forum/topic/12618073860?page=3#46
via reddit
Acidote
Member
There's a video around there of an Illidan stunned/dancing mid jump. But it's old, maybe they've changed it.
black_clavus
Neo Member
Played it within 2 days. Now I understand what OT's title means.
is there any general advice for newcomer?
is there any general advice for newcomer?
You aren't trying to use Wonder Billie in Hero League are you? It's bugged and getting fixed in patch coming out this week.
Otherwise, unsure. Seems like a few random accounts have the mount changing bug, but there's no real rhyme or reason as to why other than the Wonder Billie bug that we just found out about.
Yessir and welcome back! Quote the OP and hit the Google doc that has everyone's battletags in it. Info is at the top of that document.
They typically do anyone who gets a lot of changes (or who may be getting them). I'm sure we'll see the others as the weeks go on.
Hammers' changes weren't quite as large compared to KT's and Nazeebo's since they have entirely new builds/playstyles to try out, so it makes sense that they'd be one of the first.
Then there's also seemingly some kind of internal algorithm/system to how they determine who is free from week to week anyway and maybe he was coming up again.
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